Explosion in bar in Ansbach, Germany

topper75 · 25-07-2016 10:58AM

The boost in numbers in Limerick is quite something in the last 12 months.

I wandered through the People's Park yesterday. I wasn't counting with my abacus or anything but I'd estimate 80-90% of the park users were either olive-skinned or in Islamic dress. The kids communicated with each other in English. So at least there was some effort at integration going on.

Much of this strange phenomenon (the disproportionate representation) though could probably be down to folk of these lands used to living an outdoor life in warmer countries. The native Irish prefer to be inside.

I don't mind so long as they all behave peacefully. I WOULD take issue with the burkha. I saw one in the Crescent on Saturday and pondered how I would be treated as a male marching in there in an IRA-style balaclava.

Is there a special case in principle if that is 'what Allah has commanded'? I think we should move to ban face coverings of all sorts whilst we are early doors on this.

Smondie · 25-07-2016 11:01AM

Wherever the come from, papers or not, they need to be deported to Syria.

Dyr · 25-07-2016 11:01AM

topper75 wrote: »

Is there a special case in principle if that is 'what Allah has commanded'? I think we should move to ban face coverings of all sorts whilst we are early doors on this.

Early doors, we can tell prospective immigrants with medieval mindsets that we're grand for backwards religious gob****es, thanks all the same.

Nip that nonsense in the bud.

HensVassal · 25-07-2016 11:02AM

SnakePlissken wrote: »

I don't know, perhaps the millions of able bodied men fleeing these war zones should perhaps fight for their homelands instead of showing their cowardice. And yes, if your rebuttal to this statement is to ask would I fight for my country should it ever be invaded by foreign mercenaries fighting a proxy war, then yes, yes I would.

Oh boy.

These people are not only fleeing the nutcases in ISIS but air-strikes that are killing indiscriminately. So you've got a wife and two baby daughters and an elderly mother in tow but you're going to just tell them to stay at home while you go off and fight against battle-hardened jihadists? Yeah, ok.

shedweller · 25-07-2016 11:02AM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Absolutely correct. I believe there are multiple causes of the exaggerated fearfulness; one is that the internet can act as a vector of hysteria, but another is that some people love to be spooked. I think the two factors play off one another, and completely distort people's perception of risk.

A few years ago, I read a book of essays recounting ordinary Londoners' memories of life under the Blitz during WW2. Amid the shocking descriptions of screaming bombs and the mutilations of human beings, I was amazed by the poised and nervy attitude of men and women alike, many of whom were mostly annoyed by the inconvenience, and managed to hide whatever fears they had from their children and dependents.

Panic was treated compassionately, from what I could gather, but was a hindrance to getting on with life, which was their main preoccupation.

These days, we seem obsessed with frenzy, and many are keen to pour our excited panic down every cable, every microphone, to have it rise up into the satellites orbiting our globe and declare to the world, "this is frightening, we should all be very afraid!". It does nobody any good at all. We as a society need to once again catch hold of our reason and our intelligence.

The degree to which we allow terrorism to dominate our policy and outlook is totally disproportionate to the risk of death or injury by terrorism in our society.

Just so i understand what you mean. Are you saying we should not react to random mass killings? React less maybe? What? How should we react to this growing problem from a certain people?

rjpf1980 · 25-07-2016 11:04AM

munchkin_utd wrote: »

yep, the stats on accident deaths are mental.

In 1970 there was 21 332 killed on the roads in Germany. Thats thankfully fallen to "just" 3 339 killed in 2013 - but jesus, to go into a panic over 2 lads who killed nobody except themselves, and a manic depressive sociopathic school shooter who idiolised gun rampages in the USA and Norway (and didnt find his comfort in islamic teachings or violence) is just way over the top when theres the amount killed in the troubles in northern ireland dieing on the roads each year in Germany. https://www.destatis.de/DE/PresseService/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/2014/07/PD14_238_46241.html

I live a couple of miles from that tragic shooting in Munich and I'm chilled about it. Its sad, but a family of 5 were squished by a truck which crashed into them at the end of a traffic jam on the autobahn and killed instantly a couple of weeks back near Nürnberg which is equally as tragic.

The deliberate murder or attempted murder of innocent people in a global pattern of directed attacks or inspired attacks is more newsworthy than random tragic accidents for obvious reasons. Millions of people die from old age and illnesses too. No government is going to launch a campaign against old age are they?

You can't downplay the seriousness of this wave of Muslim violence.

There is a global conspiracy by very wealthy Muslim paymasters allied with extreme Islamist ideologue string pullers to fight a global war to advance an Islamic Caliphate. A richly funded network of radical mosques and madrasses is brainwashing young Muslim men. Websites and social media used of radical Islamists are being used to convert and recruit malcontents to join Islamist movements, terrorist groups or launch lone wolf attacks.

shedweller · 25-07-2016 11:06AM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

The deliberate murder or attempted murder of innocent people in a global pattern of directed attacks or inspired attacks is more newsworthy than random tragic accidents for obvious reasons. Millions of people die from old age and illnesses too. No government is going to launch a campaign against old age are they?

You can't downplay the seriousness of this wave of Muslim violence.

There is a global conspiracy by very wealthy Muslim paymasters allied with extreme Islamist ideologue string pullers to fight a global war to advance an Islamic Caliphate. A richly funded network of radical mosques and madrasses is brainwashing young Muslim men. Websites and social media used of radical Islamists are being used to convert and recruit malcontents to join Islamist movements, terrorist groups or launch lone wolf attacks.

Apparently nobody is downplaying this....
Lol!

HensVassal · 25-07-2016 11:07AM

Bambi wrote: »

Nope, I see the full binliner being worn around dublin on a regular basis

I don't think that's a burkha, though. A burkha prevents even the eyes from being seen.

suicide_circus · 25-07-2016 11:08AM

HensVassal wrote: »

I don't think that's a burkha, though. A burkha prevents even the eyes from being seen.

Saucy minxes

HensVassal · 25-07-2016 11:13AM

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Is there that much of a distinction between the two? Until they're worn too by the men who insist upon them, they both should be considered as the misogynistic trappings that they are... Hijabs I take no issue with whatsoever

Do you know any women who wear these garments? Have you lived in or visited and Muslim or Arab lands?
Why do you say that men insist that women wear these garments?

speedboatchase · 25-07-2016 11:15AM

HensVassal wrote: »

I don't think that's a burkha, though. A burkha prevents even the eyes from being seen.

A burkha is one piece of cloth, which include a niqab-style design that allows only the eyes to be seen. Most Muslim women will wear an abaya with either a hijab or niqab.

Dyr · 25-07-2016 11:15AM

HensVassal wrote: »

Oh boy.

These people are not only fleeing the nutcases in ISIS but air-strikes that are killing indiscriminately. So you've got a wife and two baby daughters and an elderly mother in tow but you're going to just tell them to stay at home while you go off and fight against battle-hardened jihadists? Yeah, ok.

Why do they have to stay at home

The thing that cracked me up about the whole "you wouldnt be on a raft in the med unless it was safer than home" meme was when they found that poor wee kid who drowned as a poster boy it turned out his family were doing a bunk from turkey, while kurds who were worth a **** were actually fighting ISIS back in their home town.

speedboatchase · 25-07-2016 11:15AM

HensVassal wrote: »

Do you know any women who wear these garments? Have you lived in or visited and Muslim or Arab lands?
Why do you say that men insist that women wear these garments?

It's illegal to uncover your hair in Saudi Arabia and Iran, the two powers of the Sunni and Shia sects respectively.

Smondie · 25-07-2016 11:16AM

HensVassal wrote: »

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Is there that much of a distinction between the two? Until they're worn too by the men who insist upon them, they both should be considered as the misogynistic trappings that they are... Hijabs I take no issue with whatsoever

Do you know any women who wear these garments? Have you lived in or visited and Muslim or Arab lands?
Why do you say that men insist that women wear these garments?

Of course it's the woman's choice. it's empowering as she wears it to control who can masturbate thinking about her. Am I right? :rolleyes:

A Primal Nut · 25-07-2016 11:17AM

It's amazing how hard the media are trying to convince us that this has nothing to do with Islamic terrorism. Three muslims or people of Islamic background attack innocent civilians in Germany in a one week period, exactly around the time the rest of Europe is getting hit with Islamic terrorist attacks. But apparently it's just a co-incidence?

SnakePlissken · 25-07-2016 11:18AM

HensVassal wrote: »

Oh boy.

These people are not only fleeing the nutcases in ISIS but air-strikes that are killing indiscriminately. So you've got a wife and two baby daughters and an elderly mother in tow but you're going to just tell them to stay at home while you go off and fight against battle-hardened jihadists? Yeah, ok.

Oh boy.

Please go and view the footage of migrants arriving in ports and rail stations enmasse across Europe then answer this question honestly. Of those migrants,roughly what percentage have wives, baby daughters, and elderly mothers in tow? 30%? 20%? 10%?.. 5%?

Your rebuttal doesn't stand up to scrutiny in any form, please try again to discredit my opinion that these single, unmarried, able bodied young men should be fighting for their homelands.

As for air-strikes? Has it not occurred to you that the reason they're so numerous is due to the simple fact that there are so few boots on the ground to stem Daesh's advance?

munchkin_utd · 25-07-2016 11:18AM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

The deliberate murder or attempted murder of innocent people in a global pattern of directed attacks or inspired attacks is more newsworthy than random tragic accidents for obvious reasons. Millions of people die from old age and illnesses too. No government is going to launch a campaign against old age are they?
.

the 2 failed attempts in Germany were Islamic driven, and worrying for different reasons than the Nice or Paris attacks, in that we have seen a couple of instances in the same week of lone wolf attacks that cant be easily countered by intelligence tips or links to previous attacks, but on the other hand inept wannabe terrorists acting alone are nowhere nearly as effective as coordinated and well funded terrorists. Also, 2 bunged attacks is not a pattern and is not something to lock yourself in a room for a year eating nothing but hoarded cans of baked beans in response to.

So on the balance of it, I'm going to stay in low panic mode and be more wary of road accidents than an attack by potential terrorists.

Smondie · 25-07-2016 11:20AM

SnakePlissken wrote: »

HensVassal wrote: »

Oh boy.

These people are not only fleeing the nutcases in ISIS but air-strikes that are killing indiscriminately. So you've got a wife and two baby daughters and an elderly mother in tow but you're going to just tell them to stay at home while you go off and fight against battle-hardened jihadists? Yeah, ok.

Oh boy.

Please go and view the footage of migrants arriving in ports and rail stations across Europe then answer this question honestly. Of those migrants,roughly what percentage have wives, baby daughters, and elderly mothers in tow? 30%? 20%? 10%?.. 5%?

Your rebuttal doesn't stand up to scrutiny in any form, please try again to discredit my opinion that these single, unmarried, able bodied young men should be fighting for their homelands.

As for air-strikes? Has it not occurred to you that the reason they're so numerous is due to the simple fact that there are so few boots on the ground to stem Daesh's advance?

If they are not fleeing isis but airstrikes, they must like living under isis.

HensVassal · 25-07-2016 11:22AM

Shenshen wrote: »

What bothers me personally most about bruqas and niqabs (as well as any other overyl-covering style of clothes) is the derogatory message it sends about men - the wearer apparently regards men as little more than instinct-driven animals who can't be trusted to control themselves not to assualt or rape any female they see too much of.

As a woman, I find this the most unsettling.

The women who wear these garments generally do so of their own volition. It's a cultural thing as much as anything else. It's a symbol of modesty as well as religious faith. If you were to ever go to Morocco, and I have been several times, you will see teenage girls in town, some wearing hijabs or chadors while their friend might be wearing a simple sun dress or jeans and a t-shirt.

Walter H Price · 25-07-2016 11:24AM

A Primal Nut wrote: »

It's amazing how hard the media are trying to convince us that this has nothing to do with Islamic terrorism. Three muslims or people of Islamic background attack innocent civilians in Germany in a one week period, exactly around the time the rest of Europe is getting hit with Islamic terrorist attacks. But apparently it's just a co-incidence?

Yeh have to say i've found this a little disturbing too, Irananian "German" goes on a shooting spree , his an ultra right winger , Man with a Machete butchers a pregnant woman and attacks two other oh it was just his wife/ partner so nothing to see here , suicide bomeber targets a music festival but detonates in a restaurant , oh it was probably a gas leak then when its not quicky move to ignore the story.

Look how quicly that attack in france dropped out of the news , not Nice because they couldnt ignore that but the one where the Muslim man stabbed a woman and her two children becuse they were dress inappropriatly (wearing Bikinis on a beach) an 8 year old was left critical in hospital but the media just kinda glossed over that one. It has already been shown the German media and government colluded to cover up the volume of sexual assaults carried out by migrants across Germany on New years eve. its worrying stuff

SnakePlissken · 25-07-2016 11:24AM

HensVassal wrote: »

Do you know any women who wear these garments? Have you lived in or visited and Muslim or Arab lands?
Why do you say that men insist that women wear these garments?

To answer your broad questions;

Yes, though admittedly not well as they're prohibited from speaking with me as I'm of the opposite gender. I know countless more Muslim women who do not wear such garments and they are of course, no different than any other women I interact and socialise with.

Yes, I've lived in two predominantly Muslim countries for a combined total of four years.

This question is so naive I'm afraid I simply can't answer this for you, it's obviously apparent to me that unlike myself, you have never lived in a muslim country, otherwise you would not raise such a silly question.

Walter H Price · 25-07-2016 11:31AM

HensVassal wrote: »

The women who wear these garments generally do so of their own volition. It's a cultural thing as much as anything else. It's a symbol of modesty as well as religious faith. If you were to ever go to Morocco, and I have been several times, you will see teenage girls in town, some wearing hijabs or chadors while their friend might be wearing a simple sun dress or jeans and a t-shirt.

Some do many are forced too , there was a girl from Saudi i went to college with who hated it never wore one here but was forced to in Saudi she felt it was totally degrading to women , for some it is certainly not a free choice don't fall into that trap .

she took dogs abuse of some of the Muslim lads in the college who knew she was from Saudi but had issues with the fact she didn't cover up , drank , smoked , dated Irish Lads etc... she eventually applied for asylum here after we finished our undergrad even though that basically meant her family would disown her.

Shenshen · 25-07-2016 11:31AM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Well, the refugee men in Sweden and Germany are doing their fair share of raping and sexually assaulting the infidel women with no headgear on them, so maybe Islamic women are pretty right in their assumption as they've grown up with men with that attitude that women are a piece of meat, second class citizens. A religion that would stone a woman for being raped.

Not denying that they are, but from the numbers I've seen so far they're not doing it any more than non-Muslims did before them. Again, the mass-hysteria about 3 women reporting rapes on New Year's Night in Cologne and 1200 reporting thefts is interesting - you get more rapes reported each year at the October Fest, but that never makes the news.

And as for religion wanting to stone women for being raped - are you familiar with a book called the bible at all?

HensVassal · 25-07-2016 11:31AM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Well, the refugee men in Sweden and Germany are doing their fair share of raping and sexually assaulting the infidel women with no headgear on them, so maybe Islamic women are pretty right in their assumption as they've grown up with men with that attitude that women are a piece of meat, second class citizens. A religion that would stone a woman for being raped.

This is a stupid statement. The religion doesn't stone the rape victim. AFAIK, only in the extremeist Wahhabist hellhole of Saudi Arabia does this occur.

SnakePlissken · 25-07-2016 11:33AM

HensVassal wrote: »

The women who wear these garments generally do so of their own volition.

I've read some pretty naive views over the past number of days but this is really up there with the worst.

I've no doubt you're going to claim you've lived in a muslim country for years and have spoken in depth to many Muslim woman as to why they conceal their bodies and faces upon reaching puberty... But your opinion above would lead me to believe you've no experience of either.

Walter H Price · 25-07-2016 11:37AM

Shenshen wrote: »

And as for religion wanting to stone women for being raped - are you familiar with a book called the bible at all?

Eh didn't Jesus prevent a prostitute from being stoned ?

Let he without sin and all that jazz

all made up bull of course but TBF Jesus was pretty sound (though proibly didnt exist) a bit like Harry Potter i suppose.

speedboatchase · 25-07-2016 11:37AM

Shenshen wrote: »

Not denying that they are, but from the numbers I've seen so far they're not doing it any more than non-Muslims did before them. Again, the mass-hysteria about 3 women reporting rapes on New Year's Night in Cologne and 1200 reporting thefts is interesting - you get more rapes reported each year at the October Fest, but that never makes the news.

Woah, woah, woah. Hang on there, apologist.

1200 women were sexually assaulted on New Years Eve in Germany, 600 of which took place in Cologne: https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=cologne+new+years&gws_rd=ssl#q=cologne+new+years&hl=en&tbm=nws

Shenshen wrote: »

And as for religion wanting to stone women for being raped - are you familiar with a book called the bible at all?

Name a Christian-majority country where this is legal. Then I'll name the Muslim countries where this is practiced. We can compare the figures?

Ave Sodalis · 25-07-2016 11:38AM

topper75 wrote:

I wandered through the People's Park yesterday. I wasn't counting with my abacus or anything but I'd estimate 80-90% of the park users were either olive-skinned or in Islamic dress. The kids communicated with each other in English. So at least there was some effort at integration going on.

Can I just say on this point that I don't trust people's own eyes to make a judgement. It's a very odd week I don't get asked at least once what country I'm from. I've been spoken to in German, I've had a Polish man ask me if I was close to such and such a place, and I've had many, many Irish people try to guess my nationality. But the true is I'm Irish. My parents are Irish. My grandparents are Irish. My great grandparents were Irish. In fact, right back to when records began (1911?), there isn't a trace of other nationalities. Yet, a huge proportion of people assumed I was foreign. So now when people make statements like the one above, I take it with a very large pinch of salt.

25-07-2016 11:39AM

topper75 wrote: »

I WOULD take issue with the burkha. I saw one in the Crescent on Saturday and pondered how I would be treated as a male marching in there in an IRA-style balaclava.

You can't compare the burka to a balaclava in Ireland. A balaclava has a fairly unambiguous meaning when worn indoors where business is being carried-on. Using a burka to commit a terrorist offence is probably as rare (in Europe) as using a balaclava to lawfully cash a cheque. The two items are on opposite extremes.

There are other reasons to object to a burka, of course. I myself am not a fan of them, and I think they should be discouraged, but not because they represent a security threat.

shedweller wrote: »

Just so i understand what you mean. Are you saying we should not react to random mass killings? React less maybe? What? How should we react to this growing problem from a certain people?

I think our reaction should be proportionate, i.e. taking into account the proportion of mortalities and their annual rate of increase, as opposed to more common causes of premature death in Western Europe.

Since WW2, I wonder if there has even been 500 terrorist incidents relating to Islamic terrorism in Western Europe? And how many millions of Muslims have lived in Western Europe since that time, coming in huge, post-war waves of migration.

There was practically no Islamic terrorism in Western Europe in modern times, until 2004 (save for a few relatively minor, isolated incidents).

I'm not saying we should ignore it, we absolutely should be discussing this problem, and we should be absolutely clear on the fact that it seems to be particularly systematic in Islam, although not widespread.

By all means, we should be frank, and should not tip-toe around Islam's problems. But lets not lose the run of ourselves?

Arne_Saknussem · 25-07-2016 11:41AM

HensVassal wrote: »

The women who wear these garments generally do so of their own volition. It's a cultural thing as much as anything else. It's a symbol of modesty as well as religious faith. If you were to ever go to Morocco, and I have been several times, you will see teenage girls in town, some wearing hijabs or chadors while their friend might be wearing a simple sun dress or jeans and a t-shirt.

So women, only women, chose to dress head to toe in black at all times in the desert?

Jesus ****ing wept.

Explosion in bar in Ansbach, Germany

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