Is the world spiraling out of control.

LDN_Irish · 21-07-2016 06:16PM

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

I would be too. You lose a steering joint or something along those lines and you'll join them.

It's booked in for the morning across the road. Lucky really because I wouldn't be able to afford a ticket to the US just to shoot some pohleese officers.

conorhal · 21-07-2016 06:42PM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

No. This is the safest time in human history. Even in the 90s we had wars in Yugoslavia, the first Iraq war and genocide going on in Rawanda. On your own doorstep we had paramilitaries murdering people in N.Ireland every day.

'We've never had it so good', and 'we have seen the end to boom and bust', 'peace in our time', these tend to be the (in hindsight) hubristic statements we make just before partying right off a cliff. Isn't a little caution prudent?

Yeah we've had it pretty good, but as a pessimist I can't help but get the creeping feeling that the party is getting messy and it's going to come to screeching halt in the coming decade or so, there's a patch fraying on the financial crisis, civil war could return to Europe and the barbarians at the gate have nukes. Throw in coming resource wars and population explosion and I can't help but hope our new Ape overlords might be in the market for a compliant human butler...

Earthhorse · 21-07-2016 08:29PM

There's a lot of political instability in the West right now which is worth worrying about in my opinion. Britain leaving the EU, an increase in the frequency and variety of terrorist attacks in Europe and Donald Trump lining up for the presidential election against a very unconvincing candidate in the form of Hillary Clinton.

The world economy is still struggling to recover from the banking crisis which is almost a decade old at this stage. Our leaders have been far too slow to act on issues like the environment and we are still far too reliant on traditional energy resources as a result.

A lot of people are saying "we live in the safest time in human history" which is something Stephen Pinker popularised in his book The Better Angels Of Our Nature. But he also said there was nothing inevitable about this progress. We should be grateful to be alive now but we shouldn't take this peace for granted.

If Trump gets in I expect a lot of sabre rattling from him which will only increase tensions between the West and Russia. Either way I think there's a strong chance we'll see another World War break out in the next twenty years.

Capt'n Midnight · 21-07-2016 09:16PM

Millions died in the Second Congo War.

But it didn't make the news. Compared to it, Iraq and Afghanistan are a picnic.

endacl · 22-07-2016 01:19AM

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

We have been connected to the internet since the late 80s and late 90s it got worse if anything.

Think about all the stuff thats has just happened in last two weeks, its nuts.

Imagine if there'd been d'internetz in the the 12th century. Crusades in the Middle East. Ghengiz Khan rampaging from Mongolia to Poland. Aztecs in Central America, ripping the still-beating hearts out of slaves. The Black Death decimating the populations of European cities.

I'd say we're doing ok...

endacl · 22-07-2016 01:20AM

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

It's a finite planet and were consuming and multiplying more and more, it's only heading in one direction

Eating crayfish.

Hologram · 22-07-2016 01:33AM

The "we've never been safer" argument was true up to even only two years ago, but a lot of serious stuff is happening since last year - more than average; it's not just an illusion due to the internet amplifying things.

Indeed, here, we are living comfortably, and obviously the west is a lot better to live in in terms of health, comfort, income etc than it was even only 80 years ago - but there is still a definite increase in geopolitical conflict.

FortySeven · 22-07-2016 01:46AM

endacl wrote: »

Imagine if there'd been d'internetz in the the 12th century. Crusades in the Middle East. Ghengiz Khan rampaging from Mongolia to Poland. Aztecs in Central America, ripping the still-beating hearts out of slaves. The Black Death decimating the populations of European cities.

I'd say we're doing ok...

Posturing Putin, death throes super power in america. Rising, expansionist China. Crusades in the middle east. Terrorism in Europe, Islamic caliphates, civil war in Ukraine, Syria, Iraq, Sudan. Religious conflict in Nigeria, Indonesia in various sect wars. South amercan drug deaths in the hundreds of thousands. Severe issues of asylum due to war. Population cleansing around the controversial state of isreal. North Korean military posturing.

Now, a dissafected youth sick of globalisation. An information revolution we have no idea of the consequences of, akin to the industrial fallout. Rampant corruption. Failed institutions like the UN. A financial crisis yet to hit home properly and a thousand other factors.

The one thing that hits home about other world wars, the preemptive arguments that it couldn't happen now. We are too well educated. Our technology is too great. We are too well integrated.

We are 10 years from ripping the throats of each other. This war will be global but not nation on nation. It will be individual group v individual group. Nasty. Nobody avoids it.

We are already polarizing. Strong leaders will soon emerge. History.

Repeating.
Repeating.
Repeating.

You'd be foolish to ignore it.

Civilisation comes and goes. Ours is no different.

Income inequality and currency debasement have always caused national strife. Quantative easing has debased our currency massively. Income equality is higher than ever in history.

It's not if. It's when.

pragmatic1 · 22-07-2016 02:55AM

conorhal wrote: »

'We've never had it so good', and 'we have seen the end to boom and bust', 'peace in our time', these tend to be the (in hindsight) hubristic statements we make just before partying right off a cliff. Isn't a little caution prudent?

Yeah we've had it pretty good, but as a pessimist I can't help but get the creeping feeling that the party is getting messy and it's going to come to screeching halt in the coming decade or so, there's a patch fraying on the financial crisis, civil war could return to Europe and the barbarians at the gate have nukes. Throw in coming resource wars and population explosion and I can't help but hope our new Ape overlords might be in the market for a compliant human butler...

Well that's just predictions that you're making.

Also, we're talking about the world at present, not in some undetermined time in the future.

topmanamillion · 22-07-2016 03:22AM

ScumLord wrote: »

They're nowhere near as effective or dangerous as the Vikings where. Pretty much all of northern Europe was overrun by vikings. I don't think anyone actually mounted an effective retaliatory strike at the Viking homelands.

ISIS are picking away at the fringes of society, they make pathetic attacks that do nothing more than sicken the general public and injure a few innocent people. They're doing more harm to their own people than they are to us in the west. Vikings didn't hide out in the shadows, if you saw a viking you knew you where ****ed, they had no ideals to spread, all they wanted was to take all your stuff and turn you into a slave.

Its a bit of a common misconception that Vikings were huge armies that conquered all.
For the most part they were bands of about 50 or so lads. They landed in places like Britain and Ireland that had no coastal defences and no armies lying around. When the Vikings landed they pillaged all around them and hopped back on their ships and rowed away. By the time a force was mobilised to repel them, they were back in Scandinavia smelting chalices.

To go back on topic I don't believe the world is "out of control" or anything like it.
We are undoubtedly living in the safest times ever, particularly in the western world.
Our chances of living into our 100th year are the highest they've ever been.
Modern science/medicine/technology are making seemingly daily leaps forward.

There has always been terrorism from the Sicarii zealots in the 1st century through to ETA, The IRA and ISIS today.
I truly believe we are as safe as we've ever been today, just a quick glimpse back into history proves it.

Any world wars going on with millions of people dying for shag all? Nope.
Threat of nuclear war imminent like in '62 with the Cuban missile crisis, when people in major American cities stood still in the streets? Nope.
Anyone's town/Village/city being attacked and burnt to the ground by marauding hordes? Nope.

The majority of people in the world live in peace and go about their normal lives. I've even seen recent pictures of men in a war torn place like Baghdad playing chess outside and sipping coffee.

The truth is when we talk about Islamic extremists, Christian extremists or some nutcase with a gun we are talking about a minority that isn't representative of the majority.

FortySeven · 22-07-2016 03:26AM

topmanamillion wrote: »

Its a bit of a common misconception that Vikings were huge armies that conquered all.
For the most part they were bands of about 50 or so lads. They landed in places like Britain and Ireland that had no coastal defences and no armies lying around. When the Vikings landed they pillaged all around them and hopped back on their ships and rowed away. By the time a force was mobilised to repel them, they were back in Scandinavia smelting chalices.

To go back on topic I don't believe the world is "out of control" or anything like it.
We are undoubtedly living in the safest times ever, particularly in the western world.
Our chances of living into our 100th year are the highest they've ever been.
Modern science/medicine/technology are making seemingly daily leaps forward.

There has always been terrorism from the Sicarii zealots in the 1st century through to ETA, The IRA and ISIS today.
I truly believe we are as safe as we've ever been today, just a quick glimpse back into history proves it.

Any world wars going on with millions of people dying for shag all? Nope.
Threat of nuclear war imminent like in '62 with the Cuban missile crisis, when people in major American cities stood still in the streets? Nope.
Anyone's town/Village/city being attacked and burnt to the ground by men on horse back? Nope.

The majority of people in the world live in peace and go about their normal lives. I've even seen recent pictures of men in a war torn place like Baghdad playing chess outside and sipping coffee.

I disagree wholeheartedly. There has never been a time in mankind's history that we have been closer to war on a global scale.

topmanamillion · 22-07-2016 03:34AM

FortySeven wrote: »

I disagree wholeheartedly. There has never been a time in mankind's history that we have been closer to war on a global scale.

Whos going to fight this war?

Elliott S · 22-07-2016 03:36AM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

That's an often-quoted cognitive bias in relation to child abductions and air accidents, but the statistics don't support its application to terrorism

Since the beginning of the 21st century, there has been over a nine-fold increase in the number of deaths from terrorism, rising from 3,329 in 2000 to 32,685 in 2014. (see link below)

The threat posed by terrorism has also changed in its character, particularly in relation to suicide bombing, which has become more widespread, as well as the globalised nature of terrorism (cross-border flows of people and international networks). In the same vein, we are also seeing transnational 'sectoral' ideologies, such as violent extremists uniting across jurisdictions, and even across continents.

This report outlines the increased intensity, scale and spread of global terrorism

http://economicsandpeace.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Global-Terrorism-Index-2015.pdf

Politically, I think the western world is more polarised than it has been for many years, too. I don't believe this is all in our imagination.

Agree entirely. We were just as interconnected to the world six to eight years ago (Twitter and Facebook were in existence then, internet as popular) and things feel much more unstable now than then. It's not as simple as technology bringing us closer to everything now, IMO.

Your Face · 22-07-2016 03:45AM

Everything is fine.
Everything is fine.
Everything is fine.

Yay! The dread has dissipated.

FortySeven · 22-07-2016 03:48AM

topmanamillion wrote: »

Whos going to fight this war?

Everbody.

Pick your corner. Individualism is coming home to roost.

Your Face · 22-07-2016 03:51AM

FortySeven wrote: »

Everbody.

Pick your corner. Individualism is coming home to roost.

Don't count your chickens...

FortySeven · 22-07-2016 03:55AM

Your Face wrote: »

Don't count your chickens...

Don't disregard fair warning. I predicted the financial crisis in 2007. :eek:

kowloon · 22-07-2016 04:00AM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The term 'terrorism' is problematic. The numbers used in that study have been taken from the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START) which has received funding from the US Department of Homeland Security.

START to some of us was the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty. I think thiings are still, on average, headed in the right direction.

topmanamillion · 22-07-2016 04:01AM

FortySeven wrote: »

Everbody.

Pick your corner. Individualism is coming home to roost.

Nonsense.
The entire West is tied into NATO.
Russia & USA are failed or failing former super powers.
So that rules out the usual suspects i.e Britain, France, Germany, USA, Russia.

Australia? New Guinea? San Marino?

I fail to see where this spark for global conflict is.

FortySeven · 22-07-2016 04:36AM

topmanamillion wrote: »

Nonsense.
The entire West is tied into NATO.
Russia & USA are failed or failing former super powers.
So that rules out the usual suspects i.e Britain, France, Germany, USA, Russia.

Australia? New Guinea? San Marino?

I fail to see where this spark for global conflict is.

Male v female

Black v white

Muslim v christian

Pick your battle

Countries will be the last consideration in the fight.

Just like empire was left for dead in the national war of ww2.

Now nationalism will be left for individual causes.

We segregate. It's personal.

Your Face · 22-07-2016 07:39AM

FortySeven wrote: »

Don't disregard fair warning. I predicted the financial crisis in 2007. :eek:

Everybody says that though.

kupus · 22-07-2016 09:26AM

topmanamillion wrote: »

Nonsense.
The entire West is tied into NATO.
Russia & USA are failed or failing former super powers.
So that rules out the usual suspects i.e Britain, France, Germany, USA, Russia.

Australia? New Guinea? San Marino?

I fail to see where this spark for global conflict is.

And all of that is a house of cards with a fountain built on sand.

I'm going to say a few things that I don't have sources for....but these things you probably don't know and it's up to you to believe it or not.

Italy is on the verge of a complete meltdown. You think it was the north south divide which was the big debate a few years ago, that's peanuts compared to the immigration debate now.

Germany France and Belgium need I say any more... Oh yeah just that a lot of Germans that used to go on holidays every year.. Nope not going this year cos if they leave the house for a few weeks and an immigrant breaks and decides to stay there, they cannot remove him from their own house without a lot of bs red tape.

Ok on to tht Balkans Kosovo and Albania. Well Albania wants to get greater. And they want a part of Macedonia. Just as in Kosovo they moved en masse colonised the place and now starting to demand autonomy.
Muslims Croats and Serbs in Bosnia are at each other's throats again. Once the money dries up place will go up in flames as its like a tinderbox now.

Onto turkey, yes a PM starts a coup and ends up in complete control....enough said.

But as a lot of you have said this is the best time to live and we are too educated to go to war...blah blah blah.
They said that in the Great War and the 2nd war. They said that in yugo wAr.

But guess what. It still happened. And it's going to happen.

Widdershins · 22-07-2016 09:29AM

With Islamofacist poison being preached by hate preachers in wahhabi funded mosques and isis compelling muslims to join their caliphate it is all out of control . The West knew peace for a few short decades during which it turned a blind eye to ongoing strife and terror in the East and now Westerners can't get to grips with the fact that the terror has expanded and their rosy, distanced view of Islam was not entirely realistic . This is not to say our Muslims who made the West their homes decades ago fit that category but see above : Saudi , Wahhabi funding and influence now has changed the situation .

endacl · 22-07-2016 09:35AM

FortySeven wrote: »

I disagree wholeheartedly. There has never been a time in mankind's history that we have been closer to war on a global scale.

OK.

Maximus Alexander · 22-07-2016 09:43AM

FortySeven wrote: »

I disagree wholeheartedly. There has never been a time in mankind's history that we have been closer to war on a global scale.

August 1939 called, it wants its reputation back.

Renegade Mechanic · 22-07-2016 11:26AM

topmanamillion wrote: »

Whos going to fight this war?

Ah, the magic of conscription.

I'll still take the bullet myself though, depending on where the course goes. I'd fight for a genuine cause, but if it's only so billionaires can get more billionairey then serve up that lead, please and get ****ed.

I'm aware of the insanely slim possibility the two won't be connected...

Renegade Mechanic · 22-07-2016 11:28AM

topmanamillion wrote: »

Nonsense.
The entire West is tied into NATO.
Russia & USA are failed or failing former super powers.
So that rules out the usual suspects i.e Britain, France, Germany, USA, Russia.

Australia? New Guinea? San Marino?

I fail to see where this spark for global conflict is.

Not just them. Everybody is failing.
You've never "gone down fighting"?

ScumLord · 22-07-2016 12:33PM

FortySeven wrote: »

I disagree wholeheartedly. There has never been a time in mankind's history that we have been closer to war on a global scale.

You could only think that by completely ignoring history.

FortySeven wrote: »

Male v female

That one started out violently, but I turned my back for a minute and when I returned they were riding each other. It turns out their parents hated each other and had passed their prejudices onto their children.

Black v white

This one fumbled right from the beginning because it turns out they both work for the same armies. After much talking it turned out the white guys actually really like the black guys and think they're cool, they just didn't know how to approach the black guys, their starting a new rock/rap fusion band. It turns out their parents were old school racists.

Muslim v christian

This one was violent chaos, each side trying to impose themselves on the other, but I turned my back for a second and when I returned they were all riding each other, it turns out they were all latent homosexuals and they'd been driven mad trying to suppress it and live up to their parents ideals.

Now nationalism will be left for individual causes.

Except the majority of people living in cities and are completely unable to take care of themselves. They need the organisation of states to do the most basic things like feed them. Without the state cities would have trouble supporting their one sided relationship with the natural world.

This generation just doesn't have the will or ability to go to war with any one over anything. It would take Muslim armies marching into Europe before we do anything more than swat at ISIS to make sure their still kicking. This kind of half arsed war is ideal for the west, we have minimised the risk of conflict to consumers while still being able to sell loads of munitions to however wants it.

seamus · 22-07-2016 01:20PM

The_Valeyard wrote: »

No its not. Just thanks to technology we are all more interconnected and we hear about horrors and atrocities a lot more.

This.

150 Years ago, you heard about something on the other side of the world a month after it had happened

100 Years ago, you heard about it a week after it had happened.

50 years ago, you heard about it a day after it had happened.

25 years ago, you heard about it on the morning or evening news.

15 years ago, you heard about it an hour after it happened.

Now your phone buzzes to alert you to it happening and you have direct access to live unadulterated, unedited video feeds of the event, as it unfolds.

The world is not getting any scarier or more violent or crazier. We now just have access to hear about the scary, crazy and violent incidents as soon as they happen and with no media filter or editing room floor.

FortySeven · 22-07-2016 01:30PM

Your Face wrote: »

Everybody says that though.

I used to be able to prove it. I posted a thread on bmwland.co.UK entitled, and it's a hard rain's a gonna fall.

I was laughed out of the place. It's still there but the owner Matt died and nobody has been able to access the server to get the site back up.

Is the world spiraling out of control.

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