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Would you be in favour of a border poll?

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  • 18-07-2016 10:22pm
    #1
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭


    With Sinn Féin pushing for a border poll, Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael opening the door to a future referendum on Irish unity, would you be in favour of having a border poll?

    A national debate and discussion, with people from all sides giving their input. I can't see why a border poll could be anything but beneficial and informative. Thoughts?

    Would you be in favour of a border poll? 402 votes

    Yes
    0% 0 votes
    No
    100% 402 votes


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Comments

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    #2
    mansize
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,521 ✭✭✭✭mansize


    Have the poll- I'd vote No.


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    #3
    pragmatic1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,573 ✭✭✭pragmatic1


    Yes and I'd vote yes.


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    #4
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    The heart says yes, but the brain says no.


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    #5
    yerwanthere123
    Registered Users, Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,349 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    I think I'd be in favour of reunification, but not if people have to die for it, which I fear would happen.


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    #6
    Thundercats Ho
    Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭Thundercats Ho


    No, we're not ready for reunification IMO. I'd imagine it'd be easily defeated, which is why I wouldn't want a border poll.


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    #7
    alchemist33
    Registered Users Posts: 10,969 ✭✭✭✭alchemist33


    Deleted User wrote: »
    With Sinn Féin pushing for a border poll, Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael opening the door to a future referendum on Irish unity, would you be in favour of having a border poll?

    A national debate and discussion, with people from all sides giving their input. I can't see why a border poll could be anything but beneficial and informative. Thoughts?

    On the contrary, I think it would be extremely divisive and end up as a big slanging match with a load of insults being thrown about. Given it would almost certainly fail (at this time), it would do more harm than good.


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    #8
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    I'd vote no.

    The reason being if ultimately a referendum on a United Ireland was the result, and it passed, militant Unionism would awaken and there would be bombs and killings all over Ireland.


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    #9
    Letree
    Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭Letree


    Yes because it would definitively let us see where we stand on the issue. If its relatively close then we can discuss want the reality might be like. If its not close at all then we can put it to bed for a generation or two.


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    #10
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    I'd vote no.

    The reason being if ultimately a referendum on a United Ireland was the result, and it passed, militant Unionism would awaken and there would be bombs and killings all over Ireland.
    Anything else you think is ok for appeasement? ISIS and the implementation of Sharia Law perhaps?

    If it (United Ireland) ever came to pass there'd be a bit of grumbling, few skirmishes from uneducated thugs (nothing the security forces couldn't handle) and the place would settle back to normal - little changed from before.


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    #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    I'd vote no.

    The reason being if ultimately a referendum on a United Ireland was the result, and it passed, militant Unionism would awaken and there would be bombs and killings all over Ireland.

    How would such a campaign be carried out? Even at the height of the troubles, with the support of the RUC, British Army and courts; loyalists achieved little more than shooting random Catholics in areas close to their own areas.

    The few big attacks they launched were either planned, supported, built or flat out carried out by agents of the British state. With no collusion to help them how far do you think any campaign, in the unlikely event one even managed to manifest itself, would actually go?


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    #12
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,481 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    If it (United Ireland) ever came to pass there'd be a bit of grumbling, few skirmishes from uneducated thugs (nothing the security forces couldn't handle) and the place would settle back to normal - little changed from before.

    militarily maybe, but economically the republic would suddenly be one the hook for billions to pour into the black hole that is the NI economy and changing everything over from UK to Ire systems, departments, currency etc would be a disaster.

    The north would be stupid to leave the UK and the south would be stupid for taking it.


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    #13
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Yeah, why not have a border poll . . . .

    Can't do any harm, and it will sort out the question once & for all, won't it?


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    #14
    Donnielighto
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭Donnielighto


    I'd like one, a nice big no to put the issue to bed.


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    #15
    Zaph
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 47,284 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    We can barely afford to keep ourselves going, what in god's name would we want with another 1.5 million people, including a lot of whom wouldn't want to be part of the country in the first place? The NI economy is propped up by massive investment from the British government that we simply couldn't afford, so I'd have to say that I wouldn't be in favour of a poll just in case it passed.


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    #16
    Reati
    Registered Users Posts: 1,922 ✭✭✭Reati


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    militarily maybe, but economically the republic would suddenly be one the hook for billions to pour into the black hole that is the NI economy and changing everything over from UK to Ire systems, departments, currency etc would be a disaster.

    The north would be stupid to leave the UK and the south would be stupid for taking it.

    This is exactly why, even though as a romantic notion of a united Ireland it would be great, we can't be united. We simply can't afford it. We can't afford to run the part of the island we own, imagine the sh*t taking on the North would add. It'd take so much money to stabilise everything we'd be be bankrupted before we'd finish.


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    #17
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    Not yet. Let's each Brexit develop and see can we "leverage" the threat of a poll.


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    #18
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    Reati wrote: »
    This is exactly why, even though as a romantic notion of a united Ireland it would be great, we can't be united. We simply can't afford it. We can't afford to run the part of the island we own, imagine the sh*t taking on the North would add. It'd take so much money to stabilise everything we'd be be bankrupted before we'd finish.

    Who said we can't afford it? Those who probably don't want to lose their seats

    or perks of office. Would we need as many politicians in the South if we had a

    United Ireland? Surely we would have to lose a few of our own to

    accommodate our Brothers from the North which might not be a bad thing!


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    #19
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    We'd go from a state of 4.75m to nearly 7 million people - there would definitely be synergies there.

    Yes there would be short term financial pain, but great opportunities.


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    #20
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,202 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    I'd vote no.

    The reason being if ultimately a referendum on a United Ireland was the result, and it passed, militant Unionism would awaken and there would be bombs and killings all over Ireland.

    Militant Unionism has always been organised and funded by British security forces. Take away their involvement and Unionism wouldn't be able to sustain attacks on the Republic.

    Unionism has nothing to fear in a United Ireland and so much to gain.


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    #21
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,680 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Yes but not yet, wait and let Brexit develop a bit, see if the Scots leave and how our own economy goes. While we're waiting, it's time to start slowly appealing to the unionists, focusing on common ties rather than the divisive issues


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    #22
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,202 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Donnielighto wrote: »
    I'd like one, a nice big no to put the issue to bed.

    Once it's opened it won't be closed until the inevitable happens.


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    #23
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    militarily maybe, but economically the republic would suddenly be one the hook for billions to pour into the black hole that is the NI economy and changing everything over from UK to Ire systems, departments, currency etc would be a disaster.

    The north would be stupid to leave the UK and the south would be stupid for taking it.
    That's a weak cliched argument. What exactly is holding NI back from being a functioning economy? Subsidises that could evaporate soon enough?

    If there ever was reunification then yes there would be an economic cost, but certainly not anyway near as bad as the doommongers are predicting - much of which is wild speculation. Compared to the cost Germany had during reunification or the bank bailout it would be trivial.

    The ROI isn't perfect by any means but which half of the island has done better overall in the 100 odd years post 1916 and from a much worse economic starting point? If anyone is being romantic and ignoring pragmatic arguments it is unionists.


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    #24
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,202 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Yes but not yet, wait and let Brexit develop a bit, see if the Scots leave and how our own economy goes. While we're waiting, it's time to start slowly appealing to the unionists, focusing on common ties rather than the divisive issues

    Eh... all this state does is appease Unionism at the expense of Nationalists in the 06. Successive Governments have done next to nothing for Nationalists yet bend over for Unionists due to Sinn Féin being in both jurisdictions.

    In saying that my vision of the inevitable reunification of this island will entail appeasement of Unionists through the renegotiation of all flags, emblems, means of representation and redistribution of power to local areas etc...


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    #25
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,754 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    No I wouldn't be in favour.

    Cost is one factor, security issues (as others have pointed out) would be another big issue - FFS the Gardai can't and don't have the resources to even deal effectively with junkies on our Capital's main streets nevermind the prospect of militant Unionists - and most importantly, other than romanticism about a "United Ireland" why would EITHER side want it considering the state of public services and finances here as it is, the political gombeenism and parish pump nonsense, and that as it stands, (the Republic of) Ireland is already pretty divided when it comes to investment and return with Dublin pretty much subsiding everywhere else and being where most of the jobs are.

    Not gonna happen anytime soon.. and that's a good thing!


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    #26
    major bill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,421 ✭✭✭major bill


    If it means we get Will Grigg, I am all for it


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    #27
    Your Face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,277 ✭✭✭Your Face


    No, we can't afford it.


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    #28
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users Posts: 7,202 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    No I wouldn't be in favour.

    Cost is one factor, security issues (as others have pointed out) would be another big issue - FFS the Gardai can't and don't have the resources to even deal effectively with junkies on our Capital's main streets nevermind the prospect of militant Unionists - and most importantly, other than romanticism about a "United Ireland" why would EITHER side want it considering the state of public services and finances here as it is, the political gombeenism and parish pump nonsense, and that as it stands, (the Republic of) Ireland is already pretty divided when it comes to investment and return with Dublin pretty much subsiding everywhere else and being where most of the jobs are.

    Not gonna happen anytime soon.. and that's a good thing!

    €36bn within first 8 years - http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/united-irish-economy-could-deliver-boost-of-36bn-388959.html


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    #29
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    militant Unionism would awaken and there would be bombs and killings all over Ireland.

    To what ends? Unionism is predicated upon being in the UK. The British have already agreed they're out when a majority votes for it. How would bombing and shooting in Ireland force the British to take them back?


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    #30
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,680 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    Eh... all this state does is appease Unionism at the expense of Nationalists in the 06. Successive Governments have done next to nothing for Nationalists yet bend over for Unionists due to Sinn Féin being in both jurisdictions.

    In saying that my vision of the inevitable reunification of this island will entail appeasement of Unionists through the renegotiation of all flags, emblems, means of representation and redistribution of power to local areas etc...

    But it should not be appeasement, but strengthening ties and making people amenable to the idea of a united Ireland in advance to reduce the need for appeasement later.

    Nothing to stop us also strengthening our ties with the nationalist community, it doesn't have to be either or.

    edit:sorry misread your post, reworded now


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    #31
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,481 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    TheQuietFella wrote: »
    Who said we can't afford it? Those who probably don't want to lose their seats

    or perks of office. Would we need as many politicians in the South if we had a

    United Ireland? Surely we would have to lose a few of our own to

    accommodate our Brothers from the North which might not be a bad thing!
    loose seats?, they are constitutionally protected and we actually now have to few believe it or not. It would increase numbers as UK representation numbers are lower than Ireland


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