I leave the car parked in first gear, but it stutters forward once now ...

worded · 14-07-2016 10:51PM #1

This is a bit unnerving and one never noticed this before on any other car one owned

I've done this first gear parking for 20 + years in different cars with no problem.
The reason is to avoid hand break failure and the car rolling away on a hill for example

I'm wondering are the gears going on this car or some other problem?

So I Power off the car
Put in first gear
All ok until the car seems to stutter forward ...
Panic
Engage hand break

Unusually I on off on hand break to make sure it's in gear / safe beofre I lock the car

punisher5112 · 14-07-2016 10:52PM

What car and mileage and condition

CiniO · 14-07-2016 10:54PM

It it's a steep hill or small engine comparing to car weight, it might stutter forward a bit on 1st gear.

Mongfinder General · 14-07-2016 10:56PM

That car must be seriously whipped, a total ****box.

shietpilot · 14-07-2016 10:58PM

Quite normal with a small engine and steep hill. A lightweight engine is pretty easy to spin if it has to hold the weight of the car on a steep hill.

Esel · 14-07-2016 11:01PM

Why not use the handbrake as well?

Or put the car in reverse - it can't roll up the hill....

worded · 14-07-2016 11:03PM

2.0 Honda Accord petrol mileage - 80k approx

I suspect the gears are going

worded · 14-07-2016 11:05PM

Esel wrote: »

Why not use the handbrake as well?

Or put the car in reverse - it can't roll up the hill....

I always use both
I shouldn't need to use reverse, first should do the job

RustyNut · 14-07-2016 11:08PM

Much more likely to be the handbrake failing than the gearbox.

CiniO · 14-07-2016 11:14PM

worded wrote: »

2.0 Honda Accord petrol mileage - 80k approx

I suspect the gears are going

Is it steep hill you park it on?

CiniO · 14-07-2016 11:14PM

Esel wrote: »

Why not use the handbrake as well?

Or put the car in reverse - it can't roll up the hill....

If engine is letting the car roll in 1st, it might as well let it roll in reverse.
No difference which direction engine is turning - resistance should be the same.

worded · 14-07-2016 11:15PM

It's not hand break failure, it stutters forward with the hand break off as a test

Never noticed this beofre on over 5 cars

As a kid I was near a car that rolled down a hill after a woman didn't engage the hand brake properly or it failed. It rolled into a shop window and could have killed a few people

Cee-Jay-Cee · 14-07-2016 11:30PM

worded wrote: »

It's not hand break failure, it stutters forward with the hand break off as a test

Never noticed this beofre on over 5 cars

As a kid I was near a car that rolled down a hill after a woman didn't engage the hand brake properly or it failed. It rolled into a shop window and could have killed a few people

Why are you testing it??? Put the handbrake on and then put the car in first gear as a back up. Your not doing the gearbox or clutch any favours by putting a load on them for no reason. It seems you've developed a bit of an obsessive habit for no apparent reason and you are damaging your car as a result.

If the handbrake doesn't hold the car on a hill then get it fixed.

CiniO · 15-07-2016 03:34AM

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Why are you testing it??? Put the handbrake on and then put the car in first gear as a back up. Your not doing the gearbox or clutch any favours by putting a load on them for no reason. It seems you've developed a bit of an obsessive habit for no apparent reason and you are damaging your car as a result.

Damaging?

What is damaging in leaving a car on gear to hold it on a hill

Are you saying that forces are so big that it could affect clutch or engine or gearbox? come on.....

dr.fuzzenstein · 15-07-2016 08:58AM

CiniO wrote: »

Damaging?

What is damaging in leaving a car on gear to hold it on a hill

Are you saying that forces are so big that it could affect clutch or engine or gearbox? come on.....

Maybe not damaging, but definitely not best practice.

shietpilot · 15-07-2016 09:01AM

Ah it won't do any harm at all. It's not like the clutch is slipping. You do far more damage taking off from the lights at a junction.

CJhaughey · 15-07-2016 09:04AM

I don't think parking in gear will damage a gearbox, however if a car is in gear and someone gives it a shunt while parking thats a whole lot of force going through the gearbox and it will cause damage.

If the car is in gear and is rolling forwards what is happening is that the engine is turning over the same as if you were jumpstarting the car.
Try just using the handbrake and see how that works for you, if you are parked facing uphill and want peace of mind turn the wheel clockwise slightly so the wheels will run back against the kerb if the handbrake fails, if facing downhill then anticlockwise so the car will run to the kerb.
I can understand why people do it and I have done it on occasion on very steep hills, but for moderate hills the handbrake should hold the car fine, no need to keep it in gear.
Don't forget there is usually quite a bit of freeplay between the clutch and gearbox and the engine coming up to compression.

corglass · 15-07-2016 09:07AM

If you insist on using both here's a step by step process that won't have the car lurching forward.

1. Stop car with foot brake and clutch down (keep pressed)
2. Turn off car
3. Engage handbrake
4. Put in first
5. Release clutch and brake

corglass · 15-07-2016 09:08AM

If you insist on using both here's a step by step process that won't have the car lurching forward.

1. Stop car with foot brake and clutch down (keep pressed)
2. Turn off car
3. Engage handbrake
4. Put in first
5. Release clutch and brake

grogi · 15-07-2016 10:45AM

worded wrote: »

2.0 Honda Accord petrol mileage - 80k approx

I suspect the gears are going

Not the gears.

Compression is gone or (although unlikely - one would not be able to drive it) a clutch...

grogi · 15-07-2016 10:47AM

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Why are you testing it??? Put the handbrake on and then put the car in first gear as a back up. Your not doing the gearbox or clutch any favours by putting a load on them for no reason. It seems you've developed a bit of an obsessive habit for no apparent reason and you are damaging your car as a result.

If the handbrake doesn't hold the car on a hill then get it fixed.

They handle much more during normal driving - a test like that won't do much harm.

Decent Skin · 15-07-2016 10:49AM

worded wrote: »

I always use both
I shouldn't need to use reverse, first should do the job

Use the opposite to the potential roll; gravity can't break physics to turn the gearbox in reverse!

grogi · 15-07-2016 10:50AM

Decent Skin wrote: »

Use the opposite to the potential roll; gravity can't break physics to turn the gearbox in reverse!

And why would that be?!

I might be wrong, but it seems pushing the car in the other direction would be even easier. The engine cycle is designed to compress the air when turning forward. When turning backwards the compression might be much smaller.

Decent Skin · 15-07-2016 10:59AM

grogi wrote: »

And why would that be?!

I might be wrong, but it seems pushing the car in the other direction would be even easier. The engine cycle is designed to compress the air when turning forward. When turning backwards the compression might be much smaller.

You've lost me.

The engine direction only acts through the gearbox, which determines which way the wheels turn.

If the gearbox is set to the opposite of how the car could roll, then it stands to reason that it will be tougher to achieve any movement; a gearbox in reverse would not allow the wheels turn forwards - the car would have to slide. And vice versa.

shietpilot · 15-07-2016 11:01AM

Decent Skin wrote: »

You've lost me.

The engine direction only acts through the gearbox, which determines which way the wheels turn.

If the gearbox is set to the opposite of how the car could roll, then it stands to reason that it will be tougher to achieve any movement; a gearbox in reverse would not allow the wheels turn forwards - the car would have to slide. And vice versa.

The engine will spin in reverse.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 15-07-2016 11:04AM

CiniO wrote: »

Damaging?

What is damaging in leaving a car on gear to hold it on a hill

Are you saying that forces are so big that it could affect clutch or engine or gearbox? come on.....

Ok maybe damaging was the wrong word but unnecessary wear of gear synchros & cogs. The gearbox is not designed to be used as a handbrake otherwise they wouldn't have bothered fitting a handbrake.

I leave my car parked in gear but the handbrake is on full first so the gearbox is not taking any of the load, it's just a back up safety.

Like I said if the handbrake won't hold the car on a hill then get it fixed.

grogi · 15-07-2016 11:21AM

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Ok maybe damaging was the wrong word but unnecessary wear of gear synchros & cogs. The gearbox is not designed to be used as a handbrake otherwise they wouldn't have bothered fitting a handbrake.

I leave my car parked in gear but the handbrake is on full first so the gearbox is not taking any of the load, it's just a back up safety.

Like I said if the handbrake won't hold the car on a hill then get it fixed.

A car with weight of 1000kg, on a 30* hill, engaged in 1st gear (ratio 4.0, final ratio 4.0) on 60cm wheels (205/55/R17) generates approximately:
* torque of 1.5kNm at the wheels
* torque of 90 Nm at the crankshaft.

30* is REALLY steep hill, and 90Nm is less than any automotive engine is capable of producing.

In other words - NOT AN ISSUE.

If I have lost one ratio in between, feel free to correct me...

Decent Skin · 15-07-2016 11:26AM

shietpilot wrote: »

The engine will spin in reverse.

Really ? :eek:

Learnt something new today!

So if - hypothetically - you went forwards up a very steep hill, the stall point isn't an endpoint, and the hill would reverse the engine ?

_Kaiser_ · 15-07-2016 11:31AM

Alternative option...

Buy an automatic.. none of these problems

P locks the transmission and you have the handbrake as well.

When one of the calipers in my last Passat started acting up it was very useful as the electronic handbrake couldn't be used until I got it fixed as it wouldn't always release again without a lot of attmpts.

grogi · 15-07-2016 11:40AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Alternative option...

Buy an automatic.. none of these problems P locks the transmission and you have the handbrake as well.

When one of the calipers in my last Passat started acting up it was very useful as the electronic handbrake couldn't be used until I got it fixed as it wouldn't always release again without a lot of attmpts.

I would be more caution about the P gear in an auto though.

Typically it is implemented as a mechanical tooth that gets engaged on one of the gears... It is easy enough to damage this setup if stressed too much. It might get blocked as well...

The most important thing here is to engage the parting break before release operation brake.

Special Circumstances · 15-07-2016 11:40AM

Decent Skin wrote: »

Use the opposite to the potential roll; gravity can't break physics to turn the gearbox in reverse!

A big dirty ratchet on it and she clicking away as you go forward, why has nobody implemented this!

edit, haha it looks like an auto trans brake is pretty much a ratchet and pawl, just not always engaged.

I leave the car parked in first gear, but it stutters forward once now ...

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