Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

Merkin · 13-07-2016 03:21PM

jenny smith wrote: »

i can upload the mp3 here if you want or is that against the rules?

I'm not sure but if it's allowed I'll really appreciate it, thanks!

K-9 · 13-07-2016 03:24PM

Going Forward wrote: »

If you could link it or scan it?

Collins must have changed his mind then.
Last week he was reported to have said there was a cover up:

“A phonecall was made to Ballyshannon station, it was a politician. The gist of the conversation was that none of a particular family should be made a suspect for Mary’s disappearance,” retired sergeant Martin Collins tells the documentary.

Another former garda, retired detective sergeant Aidan Murray, says that he too was told by a now deceased former garda to lay off a particular suspect:

http://www.thejournal.ie/mary-boyle-the-untold-story-2868438-Jul2016/

The poster evancostello said Collins was quoted as saying the phone call made no difference to the investigation, not that it didn't take place.

Clarification will be needed by the video makers on this definitely.

evancostello · 13-07-2016 03:26PM

The guards didn't exonerate Guards, GSOC did. I dont know what the remit of GSOC is. How is it limited? Their function is to deal with Possible misconduct of the gardai, I thought.

K-9 · 13-07-2016 03:28PM

Merkin wrote: »

I'm not sure but if it's allowed I'll really appreciate it, thanks!

I don't think there is any reason why not. I've seen others post soundcloud links to podcasts with no problems, I'm not aware of any copyright issues anyway, just make sure you give credit in the post to RTE anyway!

jenny smith · 13-07-2016 03:32PM

won't upload here . here is a link http://picosong.com/tqrN/ copyright is RTE

K-9 · 13-07-2016 03:34PM

evancostello wrote: »

The guards didn't exonerate Guards, GSOC did. I dont know what the remit of GSOC is. How is it limited? Their function is to deal with Possible misconduct of the gardai, I thought.

It's hard to know. I assume they focus more on the conduct of the investigation and that the Gardai acted professionally, but I'm no expert on GSOC investigations! My suspicion is the time lapse might be a problem. If there was a cover up there isn't going to much about it on paper!

jenny smith · 13-07-2016 03:38PM

K-9 wrote: »

It's hard to know. I assume they focus more on the conduct of the investigation and that the Gardai acted professionally, but I'm no expert on GSOC investigations! My suspicion is the time lapse might be a problem. If there was a cover up there isn't going to much about it on paper!

But GSOC cannot look at the original investigation ? i don't think so

Going Forward · 13-07-2016 04:21PM

evancostello wrote: »

The guards didn't exonerate Guards, GSOC did. I dont know what the remit of GSOC is. How is it limited? Their function is to deal with Possible misconduct of the gardai, I thought.

It is limited by the following, timescales, personally affected, or witnessed, and it reads as if the complaint is to be against a specific (presumably named) member of AGS:

"If you are directly affected by what you believe is misconduct of a member of the Garda Síochána, you can complain to the Garda Ombudsman.

You can also make a complaint if you are a direct witness to such behaviour.

In many circumstances you can complain on someone’s behalf, if you have their consent.

How we deal with complaints

Will my complaint be examined?

Your complaint will be admissible for examination if:

You were directly affected, or directly witnessed the behaviour complained of (sic)
The alleged behaviour is considered as misbehaviour under the Garda Síochána Discipline Regulations 2007
The complaint is made within 12 months of the incident
The complaint is not false or misleading"

It is quite possible that Mary's sister's complaint was rejected on a number of the above grounds.

Complaining to GSOC about a case like this wouldn't be as straightforward as might be assumed, given the considerable passing of time time and whether GSOC even "believes" what you are alleging.

If they believe it to be "false or misleading", there's no investigation.

http://www.gardaombudsman.ie/complaints/complainhow.html

jenny smith · 13-07-2016 04:27PM

K-9 wrote: »

The poster evancostello said Collins was quoted as saying the phone call made no difference to the investigation, not that it didn't take place.

Clarification will be needed by the video makers on this definitely.

https://sendvid.com/fg8c71z4 copyright gemma o doherty acknowledged

oranbhoy67 · 13-07-2016 04:28PM

evancostello wrote: »

mmmm check out the front page of the Donegal Post . Looks like the documentary is in unravelloing mode.

Can you link this please * its ok found it*

There was and there remains a cover up into the disappearance of young Mary Boyle in 1977, but there was neither political nor state interference, a lead investigator at the time has clarified this week.

He believed that the 'cover up' relates to an individual or individual, who may have vital information in helping resolve the near 40-year-old mystery

It follows on from a YouTube documentary which was released on social media about the case and featured an interview with the retired Sergeant.

The documentary alleged that political interference may have resulted in which way the initial investigation was carried out.

In an exclusive interview with the Donegal Post, retired Sergeant Martin Collins said that any suggestion that senior members of the force that he worked with in Ballyshannon, had influenced the direction of the original missing persons investigation were totally erroneous.

He was equally 100% adamant that NO political interference came about, despite an alleged call by a politician to Ballyshannon garda station.

None of the investigation team were subjected to any senior Garda or other outside influence or persuasion into the way they themselves were conducting their investigation, he added.

He said that phone call comments emanated from the hearsay of a station orderly, who would not have even been an investigating officer into the Mary Boyle case.

“That phone call had nothing whatsoever to do with the investigation that was going on at that time or subsequently. It was never ever mentioned again,” he said.

He said that most of the men involved in that original investigation were married and had children in and around the same age as Mary.

Even in that context alone, they were deeply connected to the tragedy and any suggestion that there was a cover up by Gardai, of any rank, was simply not true. On this, he was emphatic.

Read more in this week's Donegal Post:

jenny smith · 13-07-2016 04:37PM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

Can you link this please * its ok found it*

There was and there remains a cover up into the disappearance of young Mary Boyle in 1977, but there was neither political nor state interference, a lead investigator at the time has clarified this week.

He believed that the 'cover up' relates to an individual or individual, who may have vital information in helping resolve the near 40-year-old mystery

It follows on from a YouTube documentary which was released on social media about the case and featured an interview with the retired Sergeant.

The documentary alleged that political interference may have resulted in which way the initial investigation was carried out.

In an exclusive interview with the Donegal Post, retired Sergeant Martin Collins said that any suggestion that senior members of the force that he worked with in Ballyshannon, had influenced the direction of the original missing persons investigation were totally erroneous.

He was equally 100% adamant that NO political interference came about, despite an alleged call by a politician to Ballyshannon garda station.

None of the investigation team were subjected to any senior Garda or other outside influence or persuasion into the way they themselves were conducting their investigation, he added.

He said that phone call comments emanated from the hearsay of a station orderly, who would not have even been an investigating officer into the Mary Boyle case.

“That phone call had nothing whatsoever to do with the investigation that was going on at that time or subsequently. It was never ever mentioned again,” he said.

He said that most of the men involved in that original investigation were married and had children in and around the same age as Mary.

Even in that context alone, they were deeply connected to the tragedy and any suggestion that there was a cover up by Gardai, of any rank, was simply not true. On this, he was emphatic.

Read more in this week's Donegal Post:

what do you make of that. he seemed to say different in the doc. was it the way it was edited?

oranbhoy67 · 13-07-2016 04:40PM

jenny smith wrote: »

what do you make of that. he seemed to say different in the doc. was it the way it was edited?

still trying to digest it tbh i certainly thought he said different in the doc i need to have another look

jenny smith · 13-07-2016 04:43PM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

still trying to digest it tbh i certainly thought he said different in the doc i need to have another look

https://sendvid.com/fg8c71z4 copyright gemma o doherty acknowledged

Going Forward · 13-07-2016 04:46PM

jenny smith wrote: »

what do you make of that. he seemed to say different in the doc. was it the way it was edited?

In the doucumentary he definitely said that phone call was received at Ballyshannon Garda station, by a politician, saying that none of a particular family should be made suspects in Mary's disappearance.

It's at around/just after 31 minutes in.

The next scene has the other guard corroborating Collins, saying that as a result of that phone call, it was all hands off and look somewhere else for a suspect.

oranbhoy67 · 13-07-2016 04:50PM

jenny smith wrote: »

https://sendvid.com/fg8c71z4 copyright gemma o doherty acknowledged

great work , hes totally contradicted himself in that article today then

jenny smith · 13-07-2016 04:51PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnP_EKSWgAADohR.jpg:large

jenny smith · 13-07-2016 04:54PM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

great work , hes totally contradicted himself in that article today then

Unless he went on to explain the call did not affect the investigation and she edited that out? She'd never?

oranbhoy67 · 13-07-2016 04:55PM

this old lie rearing its ugly head again

CnOui4LWIAAoFju.jpg:large

oranbhoy67 · 13-07-2016 04:55PM

jenny smith wrote: »

Unless he went on to explain the call did not affect the investigation and she edited that out? She'd never?

I would hope she wouldnt anyway

Going Forward · 13-07-2016 05:01PM

jenny smith wrote: »

Unless he went on to explain the call did not affect the investigation and she edited that out? She'd never?

Mmmm. Maybe.

It would have been more "headline grabbing" if she had left it in.

Then she would have had two ex gardai disputing whether the phone call f*cked the case up?

At least they agree on the phone call being received.

One that was made by a politician in an attempt to derail the investigation.

Also, are the two of them interviewed side by side together, dont think so, from memory,- two different opinions maybe......

Going Forward · 13-07-2016 05:22PM

jenny smith wrote: »

Unless he went on to explain the call did not affect the investigation and she edited that out? She'd never?

Sorry to reply twice to your post but I've just reread what oranbhoy has posted:

"He said that phone call comments emanated from the hearsay of a station orderly, who would not have even been an investigating officer into the Mary Boyle case.

“That phone call had nothing whatsoever to do with the investigation that was going on at that time or subsequently. It was never ever mentioned again,” he said.

He is denying now that the phone call had anything to do with the case!!!!!!

This is getting very strange.

That's front page news for any journalist;)

brooke 2 · 13-07-2016 05:42PM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

great work , hes totally contradicted himself in that article today then

Absolutely!! Wonder if another phone call has been made??

He definitely seems to be rowing back on what he said in the video.

Going Forward · 13-07-2016 06:07PM

http://www.donegalnow.com/news/focus-must-remain-on-missing-mary-boyle-says-investigator-who-believes-cover-up-was-neither-political-or-state/104493

Focus must remain on missing Mary Boyle says investigator who believes 'cover up' was neither political or State

Missymoohaa · 13-07-2016 06:15PM

Now that is very strange, he seems to be rowing back on his comments in the documentary. Curiouser and Curiouser. Why am I feeling highly suspicious.

evancostello · 13-07-2016 06:19PM

I think that Collins just confirmed this, that there was a phone call and that" the gist of that phone call was none of a particular family should be made suspects in Mary's disappearance". It ends there with Collins and then Murray picks it up. He ( Collins) did not say in the documentary that this in any way affected the progress of the investigation. In fact, today he emphatically said that it didnt in the Donegal Post. What was done is, I think, a journalistic slight of hand . You get one man Collins to say that he received a call and you get Murray to say that as result of that call , everyone backup off. It conveys the impression of both men saying the same thing , when they actually didnt. This give the documentary the critical basis for one of its "explosive" claims that there was a police cover up. Police corruption.

What troubled me really about this documentary was the way they treated the Superintendent. I think his name was Murphy. The video show Margo say something like "we know that there was a Senior Police Officer who had to play ball with this Polititian...maybe it was Blackmail I dont know.." and then the movie immediately pans to the Superintendant. The link is made to him immediately. The narrator then relates the there is conflicting account by the man which amount to really nothing.Depth of water and the like. But then they nail him by said he attended a Fianna Fail Ard Deis and that he was friends with politician. They manage to potray this man as the man who stalled or stifled the investigation. That is the clear message I got.

jenny smith · 13-07-2016 06:24PM

Going Forward wrote: »

Sorry to reply twice to your post but I've just reread what oranbhoy has posted:

"He said that phone call comments emanated from the hearsay of a station orderly, who would not have even been an investigating officer into the Mary Boyle case.

“That phone call had nothing whatsoever to do with the investigation that was going on at that time or subsequently. It was never ever mentioned again,” he said.

He is denying now that the phone call had anything to do with the case!!!!!!

This is getting very strange.

That's front page news for any journalist;)

curiouser and curiouser

Going Forward · 13-07-2016 06:32PM

jenny smith wrote: »

curiouser and curiouser

It is very strange to be witnessing this.

He's saying the complete opposite now to what he said on film.

Has he been got at?

Going Forward · 13-07-2016 06:37PM

evancostello wrote: »

I think that Collins just confirmed this, that there was a phone call and that" the gist of that phone call was none of a particular family should be made suspects in Mary's disappearance". It ends there with Collins and then Murray picks it up. He ( Collins) did not say in the documentary that this in any way affected the progress of the investigation. In fact, today he emphatically said that it didnt in the Donegal Post. What was done is, I think, a journalistic slight of hand . You get one man Collins to say that he received a call and you get Murray to say that as result of that call , everyone backup off. It conveys the impression of both men saying the same thing , when they actually didnt. This give the documentary the critical basis for one of its "explosive" claims that there was a police cover up. Police corruption.

What troubled me really about this documentary was the way they treated the Superintendent. I think his name was Murphy. The video show Margo say something like "we know that there was a Senior Police Officer who had to play ball with this Polititian...maybe it was Blackmail I dont know.." and then the movie immediately pans to the Superintendant. The link is made to him immediately. The narrator then relates the there is conflicting account by the man which amount to really nothing.Depth of water and the like. But then they nail him by said he attended a Fianna Fail Ard Deis and that he was friends with politician. They manage to potray this man as the man who stalled or stifled the investigation. That is the clear message I got.

But Collins has now said the phone call had nothing to do with the investigation in the first place:

"He said that phone call comments emanated from the hearsay of a station orderly, who would not have even been an investigating officer into the Mary Boyle case.

“That phone call had nothing whatsoever to do with the investigation that was going on at that time or subsequently. It was never ever mentioned again,” he said.

razor8 · 13-07-2016 06:40PM

This is the quote from paper

"any suggestion that senior members of the force that he worked with in Ballyshannon, had influenced the direction of the original missing persons investigation were totally erroneous."

He rules out any members in the ballyshannon office only having any influence but that isn't to say other members outside of ballyshannon didn't is my reading of it

oranbhoy67 · 13-07-2016 06:47PM

evancostello wrote: »

I think that Collins just confirmed this, that there was a phone call and that" the gist of that phone call was none of a particular family should be made suspects in Mary's disappearance". It ends there with Collins and then Murray picks it up. He ( Collins) did not say in the documentary that this in any way affected the progress of the investigation. In fact, today he emphatically said that it didnt in the Donegal Post. What was done is, I think, a journalistic slight of hand . You get one man Collins to say that he received a call and you get Murray to say that as result of that call , everyone backup off. It conveys the impression of both men saying the same thing , when they actually didnt. This give the documentary the critical basis for one of its "explosive" claims that there was a police cover up. Police corruption.

What troubled me really about this documentary was the way they treated the Superintendent. I think his name was Murphy. The video show Margo say something like "we know that there was a Senior Police Officer who had to play ball with this Polititian...maybe it was Blackmail I dont know.." and then the movie immediately pans to the Superintendant. The link is made to him immediately. The narrator then relates the there is conflicting account by the man which amount to really nothing.Depth of water and the like. But then they nail him by said he attended a Fianna Fail Ard Deis and that he was friends with politician. They manage to potray this man as the man who stalled or stifled the investigation. That is the clear message I got.

superintendent Murray was alleged to have been in cahoots with this politican as far back as 1985 in a different investigation by RTE and published by the donegal Democrat a few days latrer, i published an screenshot of it edited last week

Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

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