Me vs my friends

That_Guy · 11-07-2016 11:06PM #1

I was going to go anonymous for this but figure I'll just be brave and post normally.

So, I've got friends... who doesn't eh?
I've also got friends who rip the piss out of each other... again, who doesn't?
But I've also got friends who make racist comments/make fun of people with disabilities.

Unfortunately, the above paragraph relates to my 'core' friends.

I don't care about the slagging and jibes we give each other. We take it in good fun and we can all give as good as we get.

What I do have a problem with is the continued racist remarks and joking manner they go on about people with disabilities.

"But TG, why are you still friends with these people? Why haven't you said anything to them about how it makes you feel?"

I'm still friends with them because.... Well... They're all I've got here at home to tell you the truth and I would always stay silent about certain topics. I'd always question why I still hang around with them and the good parts always outweigh the bad parts.

I've completed a social care course and am due to graduate in November. My job will eventually consist of working with minority groups/people with disabilities so my awareness of various things in the news and every day language towards such people is heightened.

Some might argue with me and say it's overly PC but I would call it "being a decent fúcking human being".

Anyway, back to my mates.

So, there's a fella with down syndrome who lives nearby and he's become the butt of their jokes recently. Even going so far to stick up pictures of him in our Whatsapp group, imitating his voice etc.

It came to a head recently and I told them outright that this shíte is driving me up the wall and would they mind stopping because it's pretty disgusting.

"Ah it's just a joke FFS"
"Lighten up"
.... yup, these were the replies.

Not one had my back. Not a single one.

It seems that if you go against the grain and speak up, you're jumped on by all and sundry.

I am well aware of what I have to do here and that's cut them off and I'm in a bit of a quandry.

Cutting them off = Having no real contact with people at home and feeling like shíte.

VS

Putting up with them = Having contact with friends at home but feeling like absolute shíte when my wishes aren't respected and having to deal with people who have zero respect for other people/myself.

I'd expect this from juveniles but for christ sake we're in our late 20's.

What's killing me most, is that not one has my back. I'm always there for people if they need advice with relationship crap, shooting the shít about all and sundry but when I need to be respected and be with people who are respectful I just find it grating and I'm sick to my stomach about what's going to happen next.

I do have some mates I can hang out with from college and what not the odd time so I may not be completely alienating myself.

Like I say, I know exactly what I need to do but it's absolutely killing me lads. Killing me.

leggo · 11-07-2016 11:18PM

Yeah, I get that. I had an argument with a friend over some disgracefully offensive things they were saying the other night (I won't even repeat because it's horrible). It depends how you word it too. Personally I said, "Do we all have to sit here and pretend we're comfortable with your oafish, ignorant comments and laugh because it's polite? Because I know I'm judging you when you say that ****e and I'd say I'm not the only one, but I'll tell you to your face." They got in a strop and gave a half-hearted apology and all is good now, the marker is drawn if they ever say anything like that again. This is a good mate of mine with unpleasant qualities, and everyone has flaws, so tbh it's one I just overlook unless it really offends me, then I'll speak up.

With friends like yours my instant response to say to them would be, "Do you know what lads? I'd hate if one of your brother or sisters had Down's and you had to listen to this crap constantly from a bunch of buffoons thinking they're funny." Play on how they sound like they're 12 and how grown ups don't make these kind of jokes. And I'd then just call out and pick off every single person for following the clearly wrong opinion like sheep until they were all shamed away, and I'd feel grand about doing so because I'd know I had the moral high ground. If they decided to phase me out as a result and I was left stuck for mates for a while? Well, they probably did me a favour in the long run and I'd hold my head high knowing I went out swinging.

More often than not, especially with a gang of lads like this, you'll gain respect for standing your ground, even though it might feel like you're losing it in the moment.

That_Guy · 11-07-2016 11:26PM

leggo wrote: »

More often than not, especially with a gang of lads like this, you'll gain respect for standing your ground, even though it might feel like you're losing it in the moment.

Unfortunately, this isn't the case. It's a constant barrage of the "gang mentality vs myself".

So far been told to "get off my high horse" etc etc

I don't honestly think this is a battle worth fighting anymore. Honestly, I've worked my absolute bollocks off to get into this social care course and finish it and it's something I'm seriously passionate about.

They know this but seemingly don't give a shít.

Augme · 11-07-2016 11:33PM

Have you brought it up in person or just in the whats app group?

Penny Tration · 11-07-2016 11:35PM

They don't give a sh!t because they're ignorant morons who seem to still find humour that 11 year olds use amusing.

So, ideally you'd cut them out. Ultimately, they're showing you a very nasty side to their personalities.

However, if you choose not to cut them out (because realistically, aside from the tough situation you're in, I'm sure you love them despite their crap), you need to learn ways to cope with their nasty stuff.

Because I have little choice but to see some racist, bigoted family members, who (like your friends) aren't averse to a slagging, I turn any insult they make about others into an insult directed at them. They mention how a disabled person looks, I say I'd rather that than the absolute state of their gut. They mention a foreign person's accent, I say something like "at least they speak proper English, Mr. I can't use more than two syllables." Stupid stuff like that. By turning it into slagging them off, the topic instantly changes when a slagging match ensues.

That said, all the coping mechanisms in the world aren't gonna help you in the long run. As you get started in your career, you'll probably dislike this stuff more and more, and end up cutting them off eventually. I guess it's just up to you whether you do that now or when it all gets too much.

Ideally you'd do it now but life isn't ideal, so choose what works for you. If it's to stay in contact, you need to come up with strategies to cope with those comments because they don't seem very willing to hear criticism.

FortySeven · 11-07-2016 11:36PM

I put up with the same at work. I push back and they all know I don't agree but I need the wage so I leave it at that.

How much do you need your friends is the question I guess.

tomwaterford · 11-07-2016 11:36PM

Leave the whatsapp group for starters

Why bother staying friends if their making us feel shtie??
Life's too short for that

Make new friends.

leggo · 11-07-2016 11:40PM

It just depends on what you want more then. It sounds like you've got your mind made up, you just need help pulling the plug. And, to be honest, when it comes to sinking or swimming with new friends (and meeting new partners, making a new life etc), the best COA I find is to just dive in and force yourself to swim.

If they meant that much to you personally, you'd forgive their flaws. If you can't, they don't mean that much and you'll be better off without them. You've tried everything and got the same results. Nothing left to do really, although I know it sucks. But think about the future when you'll have a different group of friends who share your values...you won't regret leaving behind the fools who were nearly 30 and thought it was funny to do Down's impressions. You know this.

That_Guy · 11-07-2016 11:43PM

Augme wrote: »

Have you brought it up in person or just in the whats app group?

Both. The problem is that A) they don't see any issue with what they're saying and

they seem to have a hard time understanding why I have a problem with it.

Penny Tration wrote: »

They don't give a sh!t because they're ignorant morons who seem to still find humour that 11 year olds use amusing.

So, ideally you'd cut them out. Ultimately, they're showing you a very nasty side to their personalities.

I'm leaning heavily on this side. Your coping strategies that you mention are a good idea but I feel that using them will only encourage such comments to escalate and escalate thus really not resolving anything.

I'm pretty cut up about even distancing myself from them but I'll be even more cut up when I start my career and I have to put up with BS comments like that.

Penny Tration · 11-07-2016 11:48PM

That_Guy wrote: »

Both. The problem is that A) they don't see any issue with what they're saying and they seem to have a hard time understanding why I have a problem with it.

I'm leaning heavily on this side. Your coping strategies that you mention are a good idea but I feel that using them will only encourage such comments to escalate and escalate thus really not resolving anything.

I'm pretty cut up about even distancing myself from them but I'll be even more cut up when I start my career and I have to put up with BS comments like that.

Yeah tbh the strategy I use with family isn't something that'll necessarily work well, just because nobody is the same and your mates could well react differently to my family.

Obviously having no friends locally is a worry, have you thought about expanding your social circle a bit? Do things like meetup or a club? I'd imagine that as you slowly start making new friends, you'll naturally distance yourself without even noticing it

tomwaterford · 11-07-2016 11:50PM

That_Guy wrote: »

Both. The problem is that A) they don't see any issue with what they're saying and they seem to have a hard time understanding why I have a problem with it.

I'm leaning heavily on this side. Your coping strategies that you mention are a good idea but I feel that using them will only encourage such comments to escalate and escalate thus really not resolving anything.

I'm pretty cut up about even distancing myself from them but I'll be even more cut up when I start my career and I have to put up with BS comments like that.

There is another way something I do for much different reasons etc

Is keep your work/social life 100% seperate and switch off when you leave work

But that deosnt make it ok for them to mock the local neighbour with it tbh

Imagine if someone who your caring for relative happened upon to find out the content of the chat....which even if your not taking part/contributing is distasteful at best

(Slightly rambling....but if they taught you were mocking there relatives it wouldn't be unreasonable for them to not want you anywhere near their relative)

That_Guy · 11-07-2016 11:52PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

Leave the whatsapp group for starters

Why bother staying friends if their making us feel shtie??
Life's too short for that

Make new friends.

I've left the group but keep getting added back in. I've muted it until such time as I can figure out how to permanently get rid of it that doesn't involve deleting the app itself.

leggo wrote: »

If they meant that much to you personally, you'd forgive their flaws. If you can't, they don't mean that much and you'll be better off without them. You've tried everything and got the same results. Nothing left to do really, although I know it sucks.

The problem is that 1:1 with them everything is grand. When it's the group altogether, I don't feel respected as has been shown when expressing myself.

Right now, I'm a mix of really upset/feeling odd moments of clarity... then upset again.

Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaackin' hell.

That_Guy · 11-07-2016 11:57PM

Penny Tration wrote: »

Obviously having no friends locally is a worry, have you thought about expanding your social circle a bit? Do things like meetup or a club? I'd imagine that as you slowly start making new friends, you'll naturally distance yourself without even noticing it

I do have a decent group of college mates I can head out with and what not. I hadn't necessarily thought about joining anything but since this is the path I'm seemingly going to take, I'll look into it more.

I will be moving to Toronto in a couple of years time. That's been on the cards for a long long time now so if that counts as expanding my social circle then I'll do that.

tomwaterford wrote: »

There is another way something I do for much different reasons etc

Is keep your work/social life 100% seperate and switch off when you leave work

I completely understand the point you're trying to make. It's just quite a different task with social care in some instances.

Can be a difficult job to fully switch off from but I get what you're saying and I appreciate it.

EDIT: But I guess what would help is distancing myself from them and not run the risk of hearing certain comments.

LegacyUser · 12-07-2016 12:22AM

Hi That_Guy,

Your friends sound very immature. It says a lot about them that you have to tell them to stop making fun of a guy with down syndrome when you all in your late 20's.

It may be that your freinds are stuck living at home/in the same jobs for years or unemployed. Next thing they see you getting on to this course, gaining confidence and starting to turn your life around in a good way. Meanwhile they are going no where or lack the maturity of people of their age.
It is easy to lash out at you or be there to make smart comments when they know you are right. At this stage I would tell them one by one you don't want to hear this.

If you lose them as friends so what. You will be looking for a job once your course is over so you may have to move away for work. If you move away and start a new job you will met new people, get involved in new groups and make new friends.
From what you have told us you sound like a decent human being. I also think as you get older you lose some old freinds but you go on to make new better ones that you have more in common with.

jigglypuffstuff · 12-07-2016 01:23AM

That_Guy wrote: »

Not one had my back. Not a single one.

It seems that if you go against the grain and speak up, you're jumped on by all and sundry

Been here OP

Honestly, I did exactly what you mentioned just now....Numerous times

I now have a very small circle of friends, but the few I have respect the hell out of me, and the ones I used to wont even make eye contact with me

I respect myself a lot more OP, whats more i trust the few i keep around me like family

I hope you resolve the issue

Faith · 12-07-2016 03:02AM

When you told them to stop, apart from telling you to lighten up etc, did they stop? Or did they keep making jokes about the guy?

That_Guy · 12-07-2016 11:06AM

Faith wrote: »

When you told them to stop, apart from telling you to lighten up etc, did they stop? Or did they keep making jokes about the guy?

I asked them a few weeks ago if they'd mind stopping.

Nothing has ceased since.

If anything it's gotten worse.

Minera · 12-07-2016 11:35AM

This is a subject that really makes my blood boil, but if you want to remain calm about it and not lose your friends start telling the guys you don't 'get' the joke! Having to explain the joke/insult makes it less funny and others in the group will look closer at the content and context of the 'joke'. Keep asking them to explain their jokes and eventually it should stop. Needing to explain punchlines means they're not funny anymore

kylith · 12-07-2016 11:37AM

OP, just imagine what would happen if you get employment in Social Care and your boss discovers what your group of friends is like. Sure, you're not doing it yourself but 'is a member of a Whatsapp group and hangs around with a group of people who make fun of our service users" will not do your career prospects any good.

I know they've been your mates for ages but you've outgrown them now. Tell them to stop adding you back to their nasty, pathetic Whatsapp group, stop hanging around with them, join clubs and societies, start hanging out with college friends more, and make some new, better friends for yourself.

Dr Strange · 12-07-2016 11:54AM

kylith wrote: »

OP, just imagine what would happen if you get employment in Social Care and your boss discovers what your group of friends is like. ...

This. I read through the thread and would've posted something similar to kylith if she hadn't done so now.

Not only your boss but any potential employer, agency, care home etc. may hear or come across it. If you are living and working in a small town or even larger urban area people working in the care system are quite aware of the ignorance and sometimes maliciousness of people who think that people with disabilities are there to be made fun of, for their amusement.

You don't want to be tarred with the same brush even accidentally by someone overhearing your friends out in public and you being with them at the time. You never know who may be remembering you were part of "that group that made fun of that Down syndrome kid" etc.

I would also guess that the further you progress in your chosen profession you will come to the end of your tether quite quickly with your friends, patience only gets you so far but what they don't understand is that you actually CARE.

silverharp · 12-07-2016 12:08PM

It sounds like you will drift away from these clown anyway once you start working. As above be careful with social media in case their "funny stuff" ends up being linked to you

LegacyUser · 12-07-2016 11:40PM

OP have you thought about moving away for a job? Just a suggestion as it would distance you from them the majority of the time but you wouldn't be fully cutting them out of your life either. I know you said you were going to move to Toronto in a couple of years anyway so maybe you could try somewhere else in Ireland for now? I moved city 6 months ago for work was dreading it at the time and spent weeks crying and worrying about not making friends but it's actually turned out just fine, I've a new social circle and I met a new partner too. Just an idea for you. Don't ever put up with bad treatment from friends or partners because you're worried you won't find new ones. You sound like a really decent guy so I'm sure you'll be just fine.

Tigger99 · 13-07-2016 08:54AM

If you block the group admin personally, then the admin can’t add you back to the group. If there are multiple admins then block them all.

You say they are friends but proper friends wouldnt disregard your concerns like these guys have. Also they are making fun of a guy with downs which is pretty disgusting , how could you trust these people to have your back? If for example there was a trouble on a night out would they help you or just laugh at you?

UsedToWait · 13-07-2016 09:20AM

Penny Tration wrote: »

... they're ignorant morons...

I'm sure you didn't mean it to be offensive, but I had to point out the irony in your choice of language here..

Samaris · 13-07-2016 09:41AM

While reading the thread, I was reminded of a coping mechanism I used to have as a kid when I got picked on. You mentioned that it's grand 1:1, but the herd mentality takes over in a group.

Is there a ringleader to it? A defined pecking order, or someone that people tend to look to when they make these comments? If so, that's who you really need to get through to, or else his biggest yeah-right-on supporter*. Alternatively, the person you're closest to yourself in the group. Work on them, point out where you're coming from. They tend to be more inclined to listen when they are being confronted singly because there isn't a herd to back them up. At that stage, especially when one side knows they're wrong, it's hard to stand up for bull**** against a stronger personality with a stronger point of view.

Then when the bull**** starts, make your point and look at the person you've been speaking to.

"Look, lads, you know what course I've been doing, you know I work with/will be working with people with disabilities that mean they get this sort of **** every day of the year and I'm there to help them cope and stand against it. And I can't look a kid with Downs being bullied in the playground in the eye and tell him that I'm there for him when I'm listening to this ****e from my mates. At least find a target that you're not kicking down to, it's bollocks." (or words to that effect). Make eye contact with whoever you reckon is the one that can take it on board, you just need one supporter and it will probably snowball over time.

After that, if they're absolutely determined to kick those worse off than them, well, you're moving to Toronto soonish. It's hard to loosen yourself from a group of friends, but if it's telling on you now, it will -really- bug you when you are actually dealing with people with disabilities day to day and you get fond of some of them, you're seeing how the deck is stacked against them every day, and this nonsense is being poured in still. Hang in there, it takes guts to stand up against your mates.

*The biggest backer is generally the best to work on, unless you have a close friend more loyal to you than to the ringleader. The ringleader has enough strength of personality to get the rest to follow his lead, but he'll generally rely on the second guy to give him approval when he starts. Second guy is more easily lead and probably not a bad stick at heart, just follows what's easiest. It's playing to an audience half the time, habit a lot of the rest of the time. I know this all sounds very playground, but adults tend to work like this too, and honestly, your mates sound like they haven't entirely grown up yet!

zoobizoo · 13-07-2016 11:13AM

Honestly, you're not going to change them.

It's within them to be like that.

It's nothing to do with lightening up - it's a stance you take and and line you draw in the sand yourself as an adult.

Friends of friends of mine used that type of language re "window lickers"... I didn't say anything but I knew that I would never be proper friends with them. But now, with friends with Downs siblings and kids, I'd happily put someone in their place with "my friend X just had a Downs kid - please don't make jokes about that in my company again"

I have had to ask someone telling racist jokes in my company. I didn't know them very well but I had to say "sorry, I have friends who are X and I find your use of that word derogatory"

You can't win with people who use that language and have that attitude.

Find new friends. There are better people out there. Who knows, some of the "gang" might gravitate towards you if they have the balls.

intheclouds · 13-07-2016 01:31PM

Its just not acceptable.

Worse, we are known by the company we keep and Id hate to think that anyone would think I was a racist bigot or someone who made fun of people with disabilities because I kept company with people like that.

I used to have a friend who was extremely racist and everyone used to treat it as a joke. Then one day her child asked me what the term "porch monkey" meant and I realised she was going to instill the racism into her children. I just couldnt be around someone like that anymore or pretend that it was funny. I distanced myself and never looked back.

HalloweenJack · 13-07-2016 01:40PM

If it's upsetting you so much, you need to ditch them. You've made your feelings known and they haven't changed tact. They don't respect your opinions. Why would you be friends with people like that?

I understand the feeling that you may be losing out on friends but if their behaviour upsets you and they've no intention of changing it, what exactly are you losing out on?

Hollister11 · 13-07-2016 01:41PM

Slaging people based on racism or appearance is normal amongst friends. OP chill out it's only a laugh.

That_Guy · 13-07-2016 02:15PM

Hollister11 wrote: »

Slaging people based on racism or appearance is normal amongst friends. OP chill out it's only a laugh.

I'm pretty sure it isn't.

Samaris · 13-07-2016 02:43PM

Hollister11 wrote: »

Slaging people based on racism or appearance is normal amongst friends. OP chill out it's only a laugh.

It's really not.

Me vs my friends

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