Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

oranbhoy67 · 08-07-2016 01:01AM

the Mother is religious

the local church in Kincassalgh made a type of shrine to Mary out beside the front door and i worked on a house across the road a few summers back and she would visit it almost every day to pray

oranbhoy67 · 08-07-2016 01:03AM

something positive

the main suspect (imo) has immediate family living in Fermanagh

Could the Norths police be the one to shame the gards into action?

Going Forward · 08-07-2016 02:27AM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

from what I've been told of the neighbours they were extremely elderly at the time but I'm assuming they must've corroborated the story

It's very convenient.

Couple of old folk down the road, who he borrowed a ladder from at some unknown point, and dutifully returned according to his own account.

On the very day that the child is last seen alive.
After according to him, having followed him returning the ladder.

Coincidence.

This is an important ladder.

There's no assuming anything in this story.

Was the elderly couple browbeaten into agreeing, (after he arrived there after having left the scene of the discovery of Mary's disappearance having "shot off" in his car to some unknown destination), that yes he had returned a ladder?

Gardai: "Did he return a borrowed ladder to you?"
Couple: "Yes"
Gardai: "Ok. Thanks. Bye"

Has the existence of this "ladder" and it's return on the day of Mary's "disappearance" even been ascertained?

Was it fingerprinted/examined?

Does it exist at all?

Isn't this really just a cock and bull story from the person who last saw the girl alive, who, making up some sort of an alibi told the unassuming elderly neighbours that he left a ladder back to them.

He hasn't ever been formally questioned on ANY of this as far as I'm aware, but I'm open to correction on that.

They're probably trusting people.

Maybe it was there, maybe not.

They hardly signed for the delivery of it in their yard.

They may have been distressed by the events.

He told them he left a ladder back.

They may not even have witnessed it, but they took him at his word that a ladder had been returned.

FFS they're not going to contradict him, if he said he left a ladder back, and if they had no reason to suspect a man of few words who supposedly had a chatty six year old in tow on his delivery, who'd suddenly disappeared on the way, after giving in to the sudden urge to return a ladder whilst there were relations visiting.

On another point.

The mother today doesn't want an inquest over her dead body, no way.

Back to 2007, and an interview tells a somewhat different but similar tale, before the recent sh1t has hit the fan of course:

Today, 30 years later, Ann Snr. still pleads for any information on what happened to her daughter. When asked if finding out what happened to Mary could destroy her family, Ann says she would still want to know.

"But I wouldn't like to think it would destroy our family. I wouldn't like it to end that way."

How would the truth destroy a family?

She knew something then.

She knows something now.

She seeks the truth, but not too much of it.

That's why she doesn't want an inquest held for her daughter.

http://www.rte.ie/tv/wouldyoubelieve/charlieandmary.html

jenny smith · 08-07-2016 11:57AM

Going Forward wrote: »

It doesn't matter, they were called.

If anything was admitted to anyone I'd guess it would not have been in the immediate aftermath of the family realising she was missing.

Any admission, albeit that theres no knowledge of any being made, was not going to be blurted out there and then IMO.

Also Mary was just a visitor to that house.

One of 11, that would have all been staying under the one roof.

On the self-policing, it does certainly seem possible given the wild west reputation the county has now, possibly more so back then.

What is the inference about the priest?

We don't know if he was called or not.

Nothing to be gained from speculating as to why he may or may not have been called IMO.

It does matter. You seem to have great knack of telling people what they mean

Nothing to be gained from speculating as to why he may or may not have been called IMO

everything here is speculation.including your

Was the elderly couple browbeaten into agreeing, (after he arrived there after having left the scene of the discovery of Mary's disappearance having "shot off" in his car to some unknown destination), that yes he had returned a ladder?

Gardai: "Did he return a borrowed ladder to you?"
Couple: "Yes"
Gardai: "Ok. Thanks. Bye"

Why there is no priest involved in a traumatic incident in a very rural place is a very good point and worth considering or speculating about. As I and others said the local priest is very often to this day the one interviewed on TV after something traumatic hits a community. Indeed they seem to speak form a scrip about "devastation/close knit communities" etc

But no priest to speak about a little missing child or tell how devastated they community is.

I think the film should name the suspect and the politician.Let him sue . There are witnesses to say he made the call. As for suspect, there is not much a prosecution can do to him now at his age. Life Imprisonment?

Going Forward · 08-07-2016 12:21PM

jenny smith wrote: »

It does matter. You seem to have great knack of telling people what they mean
everything here is speculation.including your

Why there is no priest involved in a traumatic incident in a very rural place is a very good point and worth considering or speculating about. As I and others said the local priest is very often to this day the one interviewed on TV after something traumatic hits a community. Indeed they seem to speak form a scrip about "devastation/close knit communities" etc

But no priest to speak about a little missing child or tell how devastated they community is.

I think the film should name the suspect and the politician.Let him sue . There are witnesses to say he made the call. As for suspect, there is not much a prosecution can do to him now at his age. Life Imprisonment?

Are saying we should suspect the couple weren't questioned about the ladder or that they denied the ladder was returned when questioned?

Or that we should believe that they were rigorously interrogated about it??

I don't know if they were but if they were I'd say it was just cursory.

No heavy interrogation.

What do you think?

On the priest.

Do you actually know that he wasn't consulted?

It doesn't change who the perpetrator is, his story, or the allegations of interference.

jenny smith · 08-07-2016 01:19PM

Going Forward wrote: »

Are saying we should suspect the couple weren't questioned about the ladder or that they denied the ladder was returned when questioned?

Or that we should believe that they were rigorously interrogated about it??

I don't know if they were but if they were I'd say it was just cursory.

No heavy interrogation.

What do you think?

On the priest.

Do you actually know that he wasn't consulted?

It doesn't change who the perpetrator is, his story, or the allegations of interference.

Do you actually know that he wasn't consulted?

Do you know he was consulted?
What I am saying is the lack of priestly presence is worth considering. It may say something about the cover up. It may not. Worth considering

jenny smith · 08-07-2016 01:21PM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

I asked Gerry about this, he denied this ever happened, I have this on video . its from a couple of months ago

he denies it but that is a direct quote from his sister

Therefore one of them is lying

could you upload it somewhere?

Going Forward · 08-07-2016 01:25PM

jenny smith wrote: »

Do you know he was consulted?
What I am saying is the lack of priestly presence is worth considering. It may say something about the cover up. It may not. Worth considering

I don't know but I don't see whether he was or not making any difference.

What might it say?

If they didn't call him it's more likely that there was a cover up?

Or that if they did, it's less likely that there was a cover up?

Help me out here?

Are you doubting there was a cover up?

jenny smith · 08-07-2016 03:59PM

Going Forward wrote: »

I don't know but I don't see whether he was or not making any difference.

What might it say?

If they didn't call him it's more likely that there was a cover up?

Or that if they did, it's less likely that there was a cover up?

Help me out here?

Are you doubting there was a cover up?

No
I am just agreeing with the person who said absence of priest is unusual

cosanostra · 08-07-2016 04:45PM

groovyg wrote: »

There's alot of speculation about who the politician was, I think there were references made that Pat the Cope Gallagher might have been the politician that intervened but he's come out and said its not him. Interview on highland radio earlier.
http://www.highlandradio.com/2016/07/07/pat-the-cope-gallagher-says-he-isnt-the-politician-alleged-to-have-interfered-in-mary-boyle-case/

This was just people putting the surnames together and thinking they were onto something PTC wasn't in politics at the time the cllr in question is a still sitting cllr...

fryup · 08-07-2016 05:38PM

oranbhoy67 - has the suspect been involved in any sexual deviance before and after this event ??

Emmadilema123 · 08-07-2016 06:01PM

Have just saved the Gemma O'Doherty documentary link to watch when the kids go to bed. Have seen bits of it and believe that everyone should give it a watch. Pressure from widespread speculation, regardless of your theory or what you believe, should be enough to put pressure on the authorities to start listening to family and friends of Mary Boyle.

Going Forward · 08-07-2016 06:11PM

cosanostra wrote: »

This was just people putting the surnames together and thinking they were onto something PTC wasn't in politics at the time the cllr in question is a still sitting cllr...

There's 5 pages of pictures of sitting councillors here:

http://www.donegalcoco.ie/yourcouncil/yourcouncillors/

Only one with the required criteria you mention from what I can see.

groovyg · 08-07-2016 07:37PM

Going Forward wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/tv/wouldyoubelieve/charlieandmary.html

I just read that piece on the Would you believe documentary.
I didn't know Mary's twin Ann had a baby at 16 whom she called Mary and then when she was getting married she left her with her parents !! How bizarre! That Mary also had a baby at 16 whom she named Charley. Is that not a bit messed up leaving your daughter behind because you are going off to get married and start a family with somebody else? Different times I guess.

stuar · 08-07-2016 08:09PM

The FF member was the first person seen with Gardai in a video I posted earlier in this thread, and who allegedly assaulted a fellow female councillor, hotelllls.com, I think there's a fairly big paedophile ring operating up there and because of this and those involved nobody want's to get into it because it will bring them and others closer to Dublin down.

I know 100% of a paedo ring ran in Wexford, with garda, judges, politicians and social workers involved, it's real and very frightening, and foster parents are the suppliers of human cattle, believe it or not.
He's been using TOR for years.

Going Forward · 08-07-2016 08:23PM

groovyg wrote: »

I just read that piece on the Would you believe documentary.
I didn't know Mary's twin Ann had a baby at 16 whom she called Mary and then when she was getting married she left her with her parents !! How bizarre! That Mary also had a baby at 16 whom she named Charley. Is that not a bit messed up leaving your daughter behind because you are going off to get married and start a family with somebody else? Different times I guess.

Seems unconventional to say the least.

There's a bit of naivety evident in that none of that had to be disclosed by anyone in the family to a journalist for publication or broadcast and it has nothing to do with furthering the case.

It's a pity the journalist didn't explain why they asked Ann Snr if she was afraid finding out what happened would "destroy the family".

Why would a journalist ask someone that???

"Today, 30 years later, Ann Snr. still pleads for any information on what happened to her daughter.

When asked if finding out what happened to Mary could destroy her family, Ann says she would still want to know.

"But I wouldn't like to think it would destroy our family. I wouldn't like it to end that way."

Muahahaha · 08-07-2016 08:31PM

Is Kincasslagh in the Glenties Council district?

strandroad · 08-07-2016 08:37PM

groovyg wrote: »

I didn't know Mary's twin Ann had a baby at 16 whom she called Mary and then when she was getting married she left her with her parents !! How bizarre! That Mary also had a baby at 16 whom she named Charley. Is that not a bit messed up leaving your daughter behind because you are going off to get married and start a family with somebody else? Different times I guess.

It was 1987, Magdalene laundries still in place. With her mother who sprayed holy water around the house before she started looking for her lost child she was lucky not to be locked up, but probably had to leave the baby behind to be accepted into another family.

fryup · 08-07-2016 08:38PM

stuar wrote: »

He's been using TOR for years.

TOR

Going Forward · 08-07-2016 08:41PM

stuar wrote: »

The FF member was the first person seen with Gardai in a video I posted earlier in this thread, and who allegedly assaulted a fellow female councillor, hotelllls.com, I think there's a fairly big paedophile ring operating up there and because of this and those involved nobody want's to get into it because it will bring them and others closer to Dublin down.

I know 100% of a paedo ring ran in Wexford, with garda, judges, politicians and social workers involved, it's real and very frightening, and foster parents are the suppliers of human cattle, believe it or not.
He's been using TOR for years.

Who's that photo of?

Satriale · 08-07-2016 08:48PM

groovyg wrote: »

I just read that piece on the Would you believe documentary.
I didn't know Mary's twin Ann had a baby at 16 whom she called Mary and then when she was getting married she left her with her parents !! How bizarre! That Mary also had a baby at 16 whom she named Charley. Is that not a bit messed up leaving your daughter behind because you are going off to get married and start a family with somebody else? Different times I guess.

Thats not what she said though, Groovyg.

"When I got married, I had to make a decision to leave Mary with Mom and Dad because I couldn't put them through taking another Mary away from them."

Sounds understandable to me.

Muahahaha · 08-07-2016 08:59PM

fryup wrote: »

TOR

TOR is an encrypted web browser that is supposed to give anonymity, therefore its used by criminals and pedophiles who share pictures and videos of children through it

oranbhoy67 · 08-07-2016 09:13PM

groovyg wrote: »

I just read that piece on the Would you believe documentary.
I didn't know Mary's twin Ann had a baby at 16 whom she called Mary and then when she was getting married she left her with her parents !! How bizarre! That Mary also had a baby at 16 whom she named Charley. Is that not a bit messed up leaving your daughter behind because you are going off to get married and start a family with somebody else? Different times I guess.

If RTE still had the documentary up - annoyingly its the last one that you cant still watch online- you will see that was part of the documentary

Young Anne Wanted Mary to come to live with her in Offaly but they had both grown up with the mother and the mother said in some way helping to bring up Mary helped fill a gap since her own Mary disappeared , and Young Anne didnt feel right taking another Mary away from her so let her decide what she wanted to do and she wanted to stay with her Gran and friends .

what relevance is it what age they had kids at? my own sister had a kid at 16 too maybe you can add that on to your wee list there

oranbhoy67 · 08-07-2016 09:41PM

fryup wrote: »

oranbhoy67 - has the suspect been involved in any sexual deviance before and after this event ??

not that I'm aware of but then again if the gards couldn't arrest him for a murder I've no faith they'd arrest him for anything else neither

stuar wrote: »

The FF member was the first person seen with Gardai in a video I posted earlier in this thread, and who allegedly assaulted a fellow female councillor, hotelllls.com, I think there's a fairly big paedophile ring operating up there and because of this and those involved nobody want's to get into it because it will bring them and others closer to Dublin down.

I know 100% of a paedo ring ran in Wexford, with garda, judges, politicians and social workers involved, it's real and very frightening, and foster parents are the suppliers of human cattle, believe it or not.
He's been using TOR for years.

so wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination to say there was one in South Donegal as well .

Then you have to look at the Murder of Bernadette Connolly the 10 year old raped and murdered in neighbouring Sligo in 1970 and off course the Arlene Arkinson case more recently.

groovyg · 08-07-2016 09:58PM

oranbhoy67 wrote: »

If RTE still had the documentary up - annoyingly its the last one that you cant still watch online- you will see that was part of the documentary

Young Anne Wanted Mary to come to live with her in Offaly but they had both grown up with the mother and the mother said in some way helping to bring up Mary helped fill a gap since her own Mary disappeared , and Young Anne didnt feel right taking another Mary away from her so let her decide what she wanted to do and she wanted to stay with her Gran and friends .

what relevance is it what age they had kids at? my own sister had a kid at 16 too maybe you can add that on to your wee list there

I wasn't judging them I don't care what age they had their kids, thats what was in the RTE bio. I just thought it was odd that she left her own kid with her own mother when she got married but then another poster mentioned it was era of Magdalene laundries so makes sense really. That programme was shown in 2007 so obviously a lot has gone on since between Ann and her mother as now they are no longer speaking. Gemma tweeted earlier that Ann was asking for her mother to be arrested https://twitter.com/gemmaod1/status/751172129064882176

Emmadilema123 · 08-07-2016 10:18PM

groovyg wrote: »

I wasn't judging them I don't care what age they had their kids, thats what was in the RTE bio. I just thought it was odd that she left her own kid with her own mother when she got married but then another poster mentioned it was era of Magdalene laundries so makes sense really. That programme was shown in 2007 so obviously a lot has gone on since between Ann and her mother as now they are no longer speaking. Gemma tweeted earlier that Ann was asking for her mother to be arrested https://twitter.com/gemmaod1/status/751172129064882176

Jeepers! Just finished watching the Gemma O'Doherty doc and I can see why Ann Boyles nose is out of joint. I think it's partially with Ann but mainly Margo. I feel like she is crossing the line from being helpful. It appears she has a strong influence over young Ann and is maybe pushing her in a direction that wouldn't really be consistent with how she was raised or how the family deal with things. That would pee me off a bit too tbh.

Going Forward · 08-07-2016 10:24PM

Emmadilema123 wrote: »

Jeepers! Just finished watching the Gemma O'Doherty doc and I can see why Ann Boyles nose is out of joint. I think it's partially with Ann but mainly Margo.

I feel like she is crossing the line from being helpful.

It appears she has a strong influence over young Ann and is maybe pushing her in a direction that wouldn't really be consistent with how she was raised or how the family deal with things. That would pee me off a bit too tbh.

So what should happen?

Stop enquiring about what happened to the child?

SafeSurfer · 08-07-2016 10:27PM

jenny smith wrote: »

Do you know he was consulted?
What I am saying is the lack of priestly presence is worth considering. It may say something about the cover up. It may not. Worth considering

What are you basing the lack of a priestly presence on? A few seconds of archive footage during a documentary?

Emmadilema123 · 08-07-2016 10:35PM

Going Forward wrote: »

So what should happen?

Stop enquiring about what happened to the child?

I'm not saying she should do anything differently. Sometimes you have to cross the line to get the result and I understand that.

I am just empathising with Ann Boyle. A mother would like their family to stick together when it comes to horrible situations like this. Her daughter has chosen to go another way and Margo has taken her under her wing. That would be hurtful to most mothers I am sure.

cosanostra · 08-07-2016 10:42PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Is Kincasslagh in the Glenties Council district?

Yes this is where Mary lived but she went missing from her Mother's home house in the south of the county near bundoran

Why did Gardai destroy possible burial site of Irelands longest missing child?

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