Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1

robopaddy2 · 04-07-2016 12:40AM

Cake Man wrote: »

Would it really be a disaster to lose next Sunday? Don't get me wrong, it'd be great to get another Munster and beat Tipp (we badly owe them one in championship, especially in a Munster final having lost the last 4 I think?) but it would mean another 5 or 6 week break until the semi final which has never served us well. A quarter final v Limerick or Cork would represent an opportunity to get back on track (not sure we could meet Clare again in QF?)

I suppose the benefit of winning is it would then send Tipp on a collision course with KK and likely semi final opponents would be Galway, Limerick, Clare or Cork.

Munster finals are there to be won and as you say weve lost enough of them. The motivation for these players going into this game should be to win a Munster medal, nothing else. If your mind is occupied by other counties and what their doing, avoiding this team or that team then your beaten before you go out on the field.

A big few days with the Munster senior final and the U21s out 4 days later. It will be hard for the lads in both to get themselves focused on the u21 game, win lose or draw. I agree losing the senior final wouldn't be 'a disaster'. But a defeat in both could be a big setback for the season.

Cake Man · 04-07-2016 01:50AM

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Munster finals are there to be won and as you say weve lost enough of them. The motivation for these players going into this game should be to win a Munster medal, nothing else. If your mind is occupied by other counties and what their doing, avoiding this team or that team then your beaten before you go out on the field.

A big few days with the Munster senior final and the U21s out 4 days later. It will be hard for the lads in both to get themselves focused on the u21 game, win lose or draw. I agree losing the senior final wouldn't be 'a disaster'. But a defeat in both could be a big setback for the season.

Yeah definitely, it would be horrible to lose both. I remember 2 years ago when Wexford knocked us out and a few days later I think it was Clare then beat us in the U21, it was an awful few days. You kind of had a bad feeling even going into the U21 game as everyone was on a low after being knocked out of the senior championship.

Not getting ahead of ourselves by any means and I agree regarding the lads being only focussed on Sunday and no further. The championship is entering the business end now and taking shape. By next Sunday, there will only be 6 teams left so it's just interesting to speculate who will face who come the knock out stages.

robopaddy2 · 04-07-2016 03:44AM

Cake Man wrote: »

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Munster finals are there to be won and as you say weve lost enough of them. The motivation for these players going into this game should be to win a Munster medal, nothing else. If your mind is occupied by other counties and what their doing, avoiding this team or that team then your beaten before you go out on the field.

A big few days with the Munster senior final and the U21s out 4 days later. It will be hard for the lads in both to get themselves focused on the u21 game, win lose or draw. I agree losing the senior final wouldn't be 'a disaster'. But a defeat in both could be a big setback for the season.

Yeah definitely, it would be horrible to lose both. I remember 2 years ago when Wexford knocked us out and a few days later I think it was Clare then beat us in the U21, it was an awful few days. You kind of had a bad feeling even going into the U21 game as everyone was on a low after being knocked out of the senior championship.

Not getting ahead of ourselves by any means and I agree regarding the lads being only focussed on Sunday and no further. The championship is entering the business end now and taking shape. By next Sunday, there will only be 6 teams left so it's just interesting to speculate who will face who come the knock out stages.

Yea of course its really taking shape now. Tomorrows draw for the qualifiers will be interesting. Everyone will hope to draw Wexford with due respect to them. And Clare will be the team everyone will fear coming through the back door. If we lose Munster we will probably be paired opposite them in the quarters, but win there is every chance we could meet them again in the semi's. I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of them this year. What can you say about Kilkenny were ridiculously good again yesterday

Cake Man · 04-07-2016 04:50AM

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Yea of course its really taking shape now. Tomorrows draw for the qualifiers will be interesting. Everyone will hope to draw Wexford with due respect to them. And Clare will be the team everyone will fear coming through the back door. If we lose Munster we will probably be paired opposite them in the quarters, but win there is every chance we could meet them again in the semi's. I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of them this year. What can you say about Kilkenny were ridiculously good again yesterday

Didn't see the KK game, only saw the result and match report but it seems they were able to step it up a gear or two when needed and pulled away. Although that basically describes nearly 90% of KK games the last few years. Not that it's KK fault, it's a bit disheartening seeing them just swat aside what many would consider one of the top teams in the country. Apart from Galway, I think most would probably consider Tipp to be the only team left to stop KK, with ourselves and Clare to a lesser extent capable of doing so. Seems more and more ominous though that KK will walk to another relatively straightforward AI.

robopaddy2 · 04-07-2016 04:59AM

Cake Man wrote: »

Didn't see the KK game, only saw the result and match report but it seems they were able to step it up a gear or two when needed and pulled away. Although that basically describes nearly 90% of KK games the last few years. Not that it's KK fault, it's a bit disheartening seeing them just swat aside what many would consider one of the top teams in the country. Apart from Galway, I think most would probably consider Tipp to be the only team left to stop KK, with ourselves and Clare to a lesser extent capable of doing so. Seems more and more ominous though that KK will walk to another relatively straightforward AI.

Yea its scary stuff alright. Although Galway are pretty fickle imo, as we seen in last years all Ireland Final aswell. Have the talent but not the b***s. Everyone has been waiting for KK to slip, given that they've not really been dominant at underage for a good few years. Then they go and bring in the likes Johnjo Farrell, first championship season at 28/29 years of age. Waiting for his chance with years, comes in and is probably in line for an Allstar already. As much as I want to believe we can be the ones to take them down, being brutally honest I can't see anyone beating them again this year.

thesultan · 04-07-2016 12:16PM

We have to beat Tipp to stand any chance of going toe to toe with Kilkenny.

STIG83 · 04-07-2016 01:09PM

thesultan wrote: »

We have to beat Tipp to stand any chance of going toe to toe with Kilkenny.

And beating Tipp will send them on same side with KK, if Tipp get through quarter final they playing the Cats, and hopefully send the Cats packing.

PTH2009 · 04-07-2016 01:36PM

STIG83 wrote: »

And beating Tipp will send them on same side with KK, if Tipp get through quarter final they playing the Cats, and hopefully send the Cats packing.

Clare and Wexford win the qualifiers

We win Munster

Qf (draw in this case) Tipperary vs Wexford & Galway vs Clare. Tipperary and Clare winners

As provincal finals can't be repeated in the all Ireland semis than its. Kilkenny vs Tipperary & Waterford vs Clare

We can meet Clare again

If we lose Munster than its a qf with Wexford or. Cork most likely (given Clare beat Limerick which is expected.

There's a Draw if it's Limerick who beat Clare and we lose Munster. WE CANT PlAY GALWAY In the QFs

IanVW · 04-07-2016 02:51PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

Clare and Wexford win the qualifiers

We win Munster

Qf (draw in this case) Tipperary vs Wexford & Galway vs Clare. Tipperary and Clare winners

As provincal finals can't be repeated in the all Ireland semis than its. Kilkenny vs Tipperary & Waterford vs Clare

We can meet Clare again

If we lose Munster than its a qf with Wexford or. Cork most likely (given Clare beat Limerick which is expected.

There's a Draw if it's Limerick who beat Clare and we lose Munster. WE CANT PlAY GALWAY In the QFs

So if we lose munster and assuming Clare beat Limerick we cant play Clare again so play Cork or wexford?

PTH2009 · 04-07-2016 03:11PM

IanVW wrote: »

So if we lose munster and assuming Clare beat Limerick we cant play Clare again so play Cork or wexford?

QF will be against Wexford or Cork (owe both these teams a beating in knock out hurling). Kilkenny will be semi opponents if we get through the QF.

A Limerick win next weekend could mean a draw for QF pairings if were involved

Bowl 1- Waterford, Galway
Bowl 2- Limerick, Cork or Wexford

Please please please dont be a drawn match in the munster final as we will be out on Sat 16 or Sun 17 July for the replay and possibly the next sunday for the All Ireland QF

tomwaterford · 04-07-2016 06:42PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

QF will be against Wexford or Cork (owe both these teams a beating in knock out hurling). Kilkenny will be semi opponents if we get through the QF.

A Limerick win next weekend could mean a draw for QF pairings if were involved

Bowl 1- Waterford, Galway
Bowl 2- Limerick, Cork or Wexford

Please please please dont be a drawn match in the munster final as we will be out on Sat 16 or Sun 17 July for the replay and possibly the next sunday for the All Ireland QF

Waterford won't be playing in any quarter finals

mountgomery burns · 04-07-2016 09:29PM

If Waterford beat Tipp, every chance Clare play Tipp in quarter final.

PTH2009 · 04-07-2016 10:38PM

mountgomery burns wrote: »

If Waterford beat Tipp, every chance Clare play Tipp in quarter final.

Yeah if Cork win and Tipperary lose to us.

I wonder what would happen if it's Cork and Limerick who win the qualifiers and Galway/Tipperary are the prov losing finalists. Tipperary have played both Cork and Limerick already ???

Hopefully we will be all sitting at home with a few bottles watching the quarter finals lol

robopaddy2 · 05-07-2016 01:21AM

mountgomery burns wrote: »

If Waterford beat Tipp, every chance Clare play Tipp in quarter final.

Likely/Best Case scenario

Assuming both games go as expected on Saturday, Clare and Cork to win. Then we obviously need to concentrate on winning Sunday. Hopefully that would put Tipp, KK and Clare all on the opposite side of the draw to bate the living s***e out of each other. Then leave us with a very winnable AI semi to look forward to. (I wouldn't fear Cork or Galway).

Cake Man · 05-07-2016 02:35AM

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Likely/Best Case scenario

Assuming both games go as expected on Saturday, Clare and Cork to win. Then we obviously need to concentrate on winning Sunday. Hopefully that would put Tipp, KK and Clare all on the opposite side of the draw to bate the living s***e out of each other. Then leave us with a very winnable AI semi to look forward to. (I wouldn't fear Cork or Galway).

Exactly, that would be the dream to win Sunday and have Tipp, KK and Clare all battle it out on the same side which would most definitely mean Cork or Galway in an AI semi final for us. The 5/6 week break wouldn't be ideal (especially then having to play in Croke Park) but I'd very happily take that if offered right now.

However, in that scenario the only thing that would give me cause for not getting too far ahead is that the last time we had a "handy" AI semi final was 07 v Limerick and we all know how that went!

Even if we were to lose Sunday, we'd still fancy our chances in a QF against Cork/Limerick/Wexford but then the inevitable showdown v KK in an AI semi. Simply put, we'd really be making life a lot easier by winning Sunday.

robopaddy2 · 05-07-2016 03:03AM

Cake Man wrote: »

Exactly, that would be the dream to win Sunday and have Tipp, KK and Clare all battle it out on the same side which would most definitely mean Cork or Galway in an AI semi final for us. The 5/6 week break wouldn't be ideal (especially then having to play in Croke Park) but I'd very happily take that if offered right now.

However, in that scenario the only thing that would give me cause for not getting too far ahead is that the last time we had a "handy" AI semi final was 07 v Limerick and we all know how that went!

Even if we were to lose Sunday, we'd still fancy our chances in a QF against Cork/Limerick/Wexford but then the inevitable showdown v KK in an AI semi. Simply put, we'd really be making life a lot easier by winning Sunday.

Don't mention the war! Christ I was depressed for weeks after that. But that year our excuse was that we had to play 3 weeks on the trot, every other year it was the 5 week break. Truth be told even when we has a 2 week break from the quarter finals we haven't been good enough in semi finals either. The direct route is the best route, no excuses. If its no problem for KK it should be no problem for anyone else.

Cake Man · 05-07-2016 03:18AM

Yeah it was awful, I'll put my hand up and admit I was one who felt we just had to turn up. Was on the way to the game thinking of what it was going to be like in an AI final!

That was an odd year all the same, they introduced the rule that provincial winners only got to the quarter final and not the usual semi final place which typically had to happen one of the few years we won Munster! It was to be our demise in the end anyway.

Yeah I agree, the best way is through the front door. 5/6 weeks would still allow a few rounds of club games to at least keep the players sharp. If we're then good enough to take the likes of Galway, Cork etc. then so be it. All down to Sunday though, that result is going to shape our season.

HatchetMan7 · 05-07-2016 04:44AM

We'll know on Sunday if Waterford can deal with a 5/6 week break as its been that long since the Clare game. If we do win on Sunday i wouldn't be too worried about that break, i think having a strong panel of players with plenty of competition for places is the best way to combat the long layoff.

Looking ahead for Sunday if Darragh Fives isn't fit enough to play id like to see someone like Conor Gleeson start rather than say dropping back Moran or Austin Gleeson into the half backline. We seem to have plenty of forwards to come in but we don't see any backs get a chance although Conor Gleeson did come off the bench in the league final and acquitted himself well even if it was only the last 10 minutes.

I know the team might be stronger dropping Moran back and say starting Devine, Dillon, O Halloran etc but i'd love to see another defender come in and put pressure on our regular 6 backs who have done very little wrong so far this year.

Hopefully though Darragh fives will be fit to play as he's the Rolls Royce of Waterfords backs.

HillFarmer · 05-07-2016 08:58AM

Any word of how training is going in the camp?

Just watched the full all Ireland semi last year again and Dunford had a serious second half.

Is Stephen Bennet back to full fitness yet and if so would he be anywhere near starting or a first choice sub?
With the likes of Devine and O Halloran I'd be interested to know the pecking order.

Counting down the days til Sunday

robopaddy2 · 05-07-2016 09:05AM

Cake Man wrote: »

Yeah it was awful, I'll put my hand up and admit I was one who felt we just had to turn up. Was on the way to the game thinking of what it was going to be like in an AI final!

That was an odd year all the same, they introduced the rule that provincial winners only got to the quarter final and not the usual semi final place which typically had to happen one of the few years we won Munster! It was to be our demise in the end anyway.

I think 07 was actually the last year of the '4 quarter final' structure which had also been tried for the 2 years previous. And the qualifiers were played via a league system. It was a ludicrous system when you think of it, completely undermined the provincial championships.

I was very nervous going to that semi v Limerick. Had a bad feeling about it being honest, given our luck in previous semi finals. Many of the players never really recovered from it in many ways. 2008 was all a bit of a fluke getting to the AI if you ask me. Anyway, all water under the bridge now.

Fred C Dobbs · 05-07-2016 09:24AM

It's a bit pointless speculating about the QF - SF permutations at this point. I'm sure Brian Cody wasn't fretting about it prior to last Sunday.

Bubbles is a big loss to Tipp but could be cancelled out if D. Fives is unavailable. Having Pauric Mahony back is a huge plus (he is to W'ford what TJ Reid is to Kilkenny). In addition, the likes of Gleeson, Bennett and Curran have another year's hurling under their belts.

blue note · 05-07-2016 10:02AM

I think the "curse of winning Munster" or whatever is actually to do with a team peaking. You can only keep up an intensity for so long in a year and the teams that win Munster often do so at full pelt. Coming down from that intensity and back up again for the semi and final is extremely difficult. When tipp have been knocked out of Munster in recent years they've generally looked very flat. 2010 obviously the best example then they built up nicely to end up winning the final. Whereas look at them in 2011 and last year - they looked brilliant in the Munster final and weren't able to maintain that for the semis. I actually think we were similar last year. We were at our best in the Munster final and had run out of steam a bit by the time we met Kilkenny. Which was understandable - we'd gone all out to win promotion.

Looking at Leinster - I've never seen Kilkenny peaking before August. They always look like they're tipping along nicely until then.

I think this year is a bit different for us and tipp though. I don't get the impression both teams are thinking about August / September and that Sunday is a step along the way rather than what they've been dreaming of since the end f last year.

PTH2009 · 05-07-2016 11:46AM

blue note wrote: »

I think the "curse of winning Munster" or whatever is actually to do with a team peaking. You can only keep up an intensity for so long in a year and the teams that win Munster often do so at full pelt. Coming down from that intensity and back up again for the semi and final is extremely difficult. When tipp have been knocked out of Munster in recent years they've generally looked very flat. 2010 obviously the best example then they built up nicely to end up winning the final. Whereas look at them in 2011 and last year - they looked brilliant in the Munster final and weren't able to maintain that for the semis. I actually think we were similar last year. We were at our best in the Munster final and had run out of steam a bit by the time we met Kilkenny. Which was understandable - we'd gone all out to win promotion.

Looking at Leinster - I've never seen Kilkenny peaking before August. They always look like they're tipping along nicely until then.

I think this year is a bit different for us and tipp though. I don't get the impression both teams are thinking about August / September and that Sunday is a step along the way rather than what they've been dreaming of since the end f last year.

The heartbreak of the late league final replay defeat is another motivating factor for us. We should never of lost that and the team don't want to be disappointed/embarrassed like that again. Seems like an age now since that defeat

Leinster is a non event most years and it's become a chore for kilkenny (and Dublin football) captains to go up and collect the cup. The joy of 2012/13 when Galway/Dublin won it

2005 was the last time a Munster winner won the all Ireland (cork)

If there was an open draw would Kilkenny be as strong as the path to September would be very different ?

JeffKenna · 05-07-2016 11:49AM

robopaddy2 wrote: »

I think 07 was actually the last year of the '4 quarter final' structure which had also been tried for the 2 years previous. And the qualifiers were played via a league system. It was a ludicrous system when you think of it, completely undermined the provincial championships.

I was very nervous going to that semi v Limerick. Had a bad feeling about it being honest, given our luck in previous semi finals. Many of the players never really recovered from it in many ways. 2008 was all a bit of a fluke getting to the AI if you ask me. Anyway, all water under the bridge now.

I remember well the Monaghan fans around me shouting for Limerick that day. Never really like to see them win since.

It's a big if beating Tipp on Sunday but if we do then an All Ireland semi final against Galway is a real 50/50 game. No way would I be putting Waterford as favourite.

Whiplash85 · 05-07-2016 01:54PM

I think I would fear Galway more than any other team in a knockout game right now (excluding KK of course who are in an AI semi final). Their eyes are on an AI and nothing less. They will know they can compete with KK and after Ger Loughnanes comments and self imposed pressure from the Anthony Cunningham debacle will be buoyed for the next round. They will be a very dangerous proposition. I would prefer to play Cork or Clare in a quarter than Galway. Remember the result could have literally being a Cillian Buckley swing of a hurley from being different.

PTH2009 · 05-07-2016 02:22PM

Whiplash85 wrote: »

I think I would fear Galway more than any other team in a knockout game right now (excluding KK of course who are in an AI semi final). Their eyes are on an AI and nothing less. They will know they can compete with KK and after Ger Loughnanes comments and self imposed pressure from the Anthony Cunningham debacle will be buoyed for the next round. They will be a very dangerous proposition. I would prefer to play Cork or Clare in a quarter than Galway. Remember the result could have literally being a Cillian Buckley swing of a hurley from being different.

Galway have never beaten us in the championship and owe us a beating. If we were to play them at some stage this year Waterford people will be getting ahead of themselves given our championship record over them and think we just have to turn up.

Wexford are another team I hate playing in the championship, they seem to up there game whenever they play us (we scraped a win against them in 2008 remember Damien Fitzhenry put a penalty over the bar instead of scoring a goal which could of won the game fur them that day). They beat us in 2003 and 2014. If they were better at scoring last April in the league QF they would of won the game handy

Wexford seem to struggle in Thurles for some reason.

Deise189 · 05-07-2016 03:33PM

Not sure if it's been mentioned already haven't been keeping up witj the posts but Callinan hasn't trained all week for tipp. Struggling with an injury. Prob will start according to a few tipp people I know but mightn't be 100%.

cul beag · 05-07-2016 03:43PM

Deise189 wrote: »

Not sure if it's been mentioned already haven't been keeping up witj the posts but Callinan hasn't trained all week for tipp. Struggling with an injury. Prob will start according to a few tipp people I know but mightn't be 100%.

He's struggling with the injury for definite and add O Dwyer's absence to the equation we are definitely never going to get a better chance to win Munster again.

blue note · 05-07-2016 04:16PM

Ah, everyone's injured going into most games. I'd say he'll be grand! Probably just leaving him off training as a precaution.

Whiplash85 · 05-07-2016 04:40PM

I have heard he is a major doubt. Why risk playing him when it could make or break your season if he is marked absent for an AI Qtr/semi final. It would be a major gamble by Tipp management to play him and could backfire later on in the year when we need him most. Munster Finals are fantastic to win but August is when the championship really takes on a different life.

I think Waterford are quite good value to win on Sunday myself. Tipp potentially missing 2 best forwards in Bubbles and Callinan (or if he plays a half fit Callinan). I would make Waterford marginal favourites. Thats how much Callinan matters to Tipp.

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1