Making hurling better

randd1 · 22-06-2016 08:42PM

If you make the sliothar heavier, you suit the defender or massed defence as the ball won't travel as far. Also makes scoring harder, why would people want that?

2 points for a sideline is a no-go. Why not 2 points for a shot from 90 plus yards then? Or a free from near the sideline. Just as skillful.

Implement a 10 minute sin-bin for helmet dragging, two yellow cards, deliberately pulling down a man inside the 21. Would cut down on the pulling and dragging a lot for me as I think refs are loathe to give cards that will lead to sending offs for innocuous enough little things. A less severe punishment would be an out for refs to really tackle the niggly stuff.

Also scrap the provincials completely, they are simply a hindrance to hurling at this stage, a 14 team league would mean all the top sides playing each other regularly with room to experiment and improve your side. The provincial championships could be a league within a league if they were to be kept.

22-06-2016 09:06PM

Pixel Eater wrote: »

Games like hockey, lacrosse and baseball seem to manage with a heavier ball.

In Ice Hockey they wear padding plus the puck only leaves the ground in a shooting instance (and the goalie is padded)Lacrosse, I wont comment on as I never watched it and Baseball is just a bad example as the batter isn't hitting the ball with players in his comfort zone under opposition.
Baseball is also a different game, more akin to Cricket than the aforementioned.

Anyway that aside the only issue with the GAA package is that they try to promote inter county and club to the masses and players/fans are given 2/3 meaningful games per year.

Time to give people more, major titles in all sports are run on a league basis(with some elements of KO) not this 2/3 games per year for 90% of participants... Mind boggling.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 23-06-2016 12:41AM

randd1 wrote: »

If you make the sliothar heavier, you suit the defender or massed defence as the ball won't travel as far. Also makes scoring harder, why would people want that?

2 points for a sideline is a no-go. Why not 2 points for a shot from 90 plus yards then? Or a free from near the sideline. Just as skillful.

Implement a 10 minute sin-bin for helmet dragging, two yellow cards, deliberately pulling down a man inside the 21. Would cut down on the pulling and dragging a lot for me as I think refs are loathe to give cards that will lead to sending offs for innocuous enough little things. A less severe punishment would be an out for refs to really tackle the niggly stuff.

Also scrap the provincials completely, they are simply a hindrance to hurling at this stage, a 14 team league would mean all the top sides playing each other regularly with room to experiment and improve your side. The provincial championships could be a league within a league if they were to be kept.

High scoring is not always an indication of a good match sometimes excessive scoring takes away from the entertainment and scores aren't actually as exciting as they should be because there can be so many.Nothing better than watching a 1-16 to 2-15 type of hurling match where each score is hard fought and really vital and you feel like it could be difficult to come back from a big deficit.

If scoring is the main thing people want from a game then everyone in the world would only watch basketball and cricket.

Mint Aero · 23-06-2016 12:45AM

Genuinely felt embarrassed watching hurling while living abroad many moons ago. My foreign colleagues were confused by the mess on screen. It really looks unprofessional, unskilled and just plain silly when viewed from a foreign context.

HatchetMan7 · 23-06-2016 01:24AM

Mint Aero wrote: »

Genuinely felt embarrassed watching hurling while living abroad many moons ago. My foreign colleagues were confused by the mess on screen. It really looks unprofessional, unskilled and just plain silly when viewed from a foreign context.

Every sport looks ridiculous if you've never seen or heard of it before as you have no idea of the rules. Imagine looking at American Football or Rugby for the first time in your life, id say you'd be rolling around on the ground laughing at such stupidness.

Seth Brundle · 23-06-2016 07:47AM

Mint Aero wrote: »

Genuinely felt embarrassed watching hurling while living abroad many moons ago. My foreign colleagues were confused by the mess on screen. It really looks unprofessional, unskilled and just plain silly when viewed from a foreign context.

The reaction from UK people when hurling was first shown on Sky would suggest otherwise!

Pixel Eater · 23-06-2016 11:05AM

randd1 wrote: »

If you make the sliothar heavier, you suit the defender or massed defence as the ball won't travel as far. Also makes scoring harder, why would people want that?

But making it (slightly) harder to score is a good thing; then a score would be a real achievement and a pivotal moment. Teams are regularly racking up points totals in the in late 20s and into the 30s these days, it's too easy to score now IMO. Besides there would still be plenty of scores...

gilberto_eire wrote: »

In Ice Hockey they wear padding plus the puck only leaves the ground in a shooting instance (and the goalie is padded)Lacrosse, I wont comment on as I never watched it and Baseball is just a bad example as the batter isn't hitting the ball with players in his comfort zone under opposition.
Baseball is also a different game, more akin to Cricket than the aforementioned.

Anyway that aside the only issue with the GAA package is that they try to promote inter county and club to the masses and players/fans are given 2/3 meaningful games per year.

Time to give people more, major titles in all sports are run on a league basis(with some elements of KO) not this 2/3 games per year for 90% of participants... Mind boggling.

Well I was taking about field hockey actually. I know that baseball and cricket are quite different but they still involve hurling (as in throwing) a small small towards other players at a high velocity so it's still quite dangerous.

Agree on the absurdity having just 2/3 meaningful games a year.

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

High scoring is not always an indication of a good match sometimes excessive scoring takes away from the entertainment and scores aren't actually as exciting as they should be because there can be so many.Nothing better than watching a 1-16 to 2-15 type of hurling match where each score is hard fought and really vital and you feel like it could be difficult to come back from a big deficit.

If scoring is the main thing people want from a game then everyone in the world would only watch basketball and cricket.

Agree wholeheartedly; too many scores makes them become almost meaningless.

Pixel Eater · 23-06-2016 11:10AM

Mint Aero wrote: »

Genuinely felt embarrassed watching hurling while living abroad many moons ago. My foreign colleagues were confused by the mess on screen. It really looks unprofessional, unskilled and just plain silly when viewed from a foreign context.

A fine bit of culture cringe there. My experience from watching the All Ireland final in a busy pub is that tourists are fascinated by the spectacle and skill on show.

Bonniedog · 23-06-2016 11:48AM

Mint Aero wrote: »

Genuinely felt embarrassed watching hurling while living abroad many moons ago. My foreign colleagues were confused by the mess on screen. It really looks unprofessional, unskilled and just plain silly when viewed from a foreign context.

Lots of Irish people are embarrassed by Irish stuff. Has to do with post colonial inferiority.

If its any consolation, you are not alone

Bonniedog · 23-06-2016 11:49AM

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

Every sport looks ridiculous if you've never seen or heard of it before as you have no idea of the rules. Imagine looking at American Football or Rugby for the first time in your life, id say you'd be rolling around on the ground laughing at such stupidness.

Americans and other mature people don't give a flying fk what other people think of them. Only former slaves have that problem.

Warper · 23-06-2016 03:34PM

deadybai wrote: »

The only problem I see with hurling is the lack of competive teams playing it. There's literally only 3 teams out of 32 that have quality players and That's Kilkenny, Tipp and Galway . The likes of Clare and Waterford just have very good systems to make up for their lack of quality individuals

I hate the way Waterford and Clare play the game but that's only two teams in the entire country .

I was at a junior b game in Kilkenny a while ago and it was one of the best games of hurling I've seen for excitement.

Eh? Lack of quality individuals, ya right.

Pixel Eater · 24-06-2016 10:21AM

A reformed Championship should have some sort of league/round-robin component... So maybe a rugby type bonus point system?

Score 3 goals or more and get an extra point, lose by 3 or less and also get one.

g6fdyotp5nj2l7 · 30-06-2016 09:37PM

Mint Aero wrote:

Genuinely felt embarrassed watching hurling while living abroad many moons ago. My foreign colleagues were confused by the mess on screen. It really looks unprofessional, unskilled and just plain silly when viewed from a foreign context.

If you think hurling is unskilled you've obviously never tried it.

Bonniedog · 01-07-2016 04:20PM

Sandra Salty Connection wrote: »

If you think hurling is unskilled you've obviously never tried it.

I wouldn't pay much attention to him. Not seen him post on GAA forum previously.

Bonniedog · 01-07-2016 04:22PM

Pixel Eater wrote: »

A reformed Championship should have some sort of league/round-robin component... So maybe a rugby type bonus point system?

Score 3 goals or more and get an extra point, lose by 3 or less and also get one.

Only consequence of that would be Kilkenny 11 - 34 Laois 0 - 7!

danganabu · 01-07-2016 06:04PM

Mint Aero wrote: »

Genuinely felt embarrassed watching hurling while living abroad many moons ago. My foreign colleagues were confused by the mess on screen. It really looks unprofessional, unskilled and just plain silly when viewed from a foreign context.

Ahh precious, did the bad foreigners ask you to show then how to play it and you made a tool out of yourself by any chance???

Rasputin11 · 01-07-2016 06:10PM

danganabu wrote: »

Ahh precious, did the bad foreigners ask you to show then how to play it and you made a tool out of yourself by any chance???

Rugby man probably.

Hulk Hands · 01-07-2016 11:13PM

Make 65's indirect. Or make it a sideline cut from the 21 or corner. A near guaranteed point (at anything above u-16 these days) is a ridiculous result for a deflected wise ball. Some reward for the bravery of goalkeepers making saves, and defenders making block downs. Their "reward" for stopping an opposition score is an opposition score.

jeff bingham · 01-07-2016 11:44PM

I've noticed over the last few years if there's a ruck developing, the ref stops it throws it in along the ground but rarely does this stop the mess. It just continues for another while until someone gets it in their hand.

A solution i have thought about would be for the ref to throw the ball 10 yards into the air between 2 players.

Might stop these rucks continuing. Players have the option to pull in the air or attempt the catch

KK4SAM · 02-07-2016 12:01AM

Munster Hurling is akin to under twelves hurling. Eliminate rucks and mauling ,replace the throw in with alternate sideline cuts ?

mountgomery burns · 02-07-2016 11:33AM

KK4SAM wrote: »

Munster Hurling is akin to under twelves hurling. Eliminate rucks and mauling ,replace the throw in with alternate sideline cuts ?

Good man, it's always good to see a sensible contribution such as this to the debate. Really adds a lot.

mountgomery burns · 02-07-2016 11:34AM

deadybai wrote: »

The only problem I see with hurling is the lack of competive teams playing it. There's literally only 3 teams out of 32 that have quality players and That's Kilkenny, Tipp and Galway . The likes of Clare and Waterford just have very good systems to make up for their lack of quality individuals

I hate the way Waterford and Clare play the game but that's only two teams in the entire country .

I was at a junior b game in Kilkenny a while ago and it was one of the best games of hurling I've seen for excitement.

More Kilkenny nonsense.

HatchetMan7 · 02-07-2016 08:58PM

deadybai wrote: »

The only problem I see with hurling is the lack of competive teams playing it. There's literally only 3 teams out of 32 that have quality players and That's Kilkenny, Tipp and Galway . The likes of Clare and Waterford just have very good systems to make up for their lack of quality individuals

I hate the way Waterford and Clare play the game but that's only two teams in the entire country .

I was at a junior b game in Kilkenny a while ago and it was one of the best games of hurling I've seen for excitement.

A poor attempt of a dig at both Clare and Waterford.

Pixel Eater · 04-07-2016 05:54PM

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Make 65's indirect. Or make it a sideline cut from the 21 or corner. A near guaranteed point (at anything above u-16 these days) is a ridiculous result for a deflected wise ball. Some reward for the bravery of goalkeepers making saves, and defenders making block downs. Their "reward" for stopping an opposition score is an opposition score.

That's a great idea actually. Also make technical fouls, like too many steps, indirect too. A bit harsh to almost certainly concede a point for such a minor infringement.

HanaleiJ5N · 05-07-2016 12:45PM

I'd like to see something done about hand-passing, the release and strike has (for a long time now) become far too fluid, and the strike is more often a roll than an actual strike. When you roll the sliothar off the hand that's effectively throwing it. I like a good hand pass so it's a shame to see the majority of them being so borderline.

Apart from that I've no real complaints.

nice_guy80 · 06-07-2016 12:33PM

HanaleiJ5N wrote: »

I'd like to see something done about hand-passing, the release and strike has (for a long time now) become far too fluid, and the strike is more often a roll than an actual strike. When you roll the sliothar off the hand that's effectively throwing it. I like a good hand pass so it's a shame to see the majority of them being so borderline.

Apart from that I've no real complaints.

Exactly
A clear striking motion must be made - gap between the hand and ball

The throw in is no longer contested as a 'clash' between two players!
I saw a player yellow carded for pulling on a throw in while his opponent didn't bother but tried to flick the ball away in front.

Pixel Eater · 06-07-2016 12:38PM

HanaleiJ5N wrote: »

I'd like to see something done about hand-passing, the release and strike has (for a long time now) become far too fluid, and the strike is more often a roll than an actual strike. When you roll the sliothar off the hand that's effectively throwing it. I like a good hand pass so it's a shame to see the majority of them being so borderline.

Apart from that I've no real complaints.

There was some awful, and quite blatant, examples of this in the Wexford/Offaly match at the weekend.

I still think that some of the modern rules don't gel totally with how the modern game as developed and could do with some tweaking.

galwaylad14 · 06-07-2016 01:15PM

If we make the sliothar heavier then it'll make packed defences even more common place as teams won't be able to score from further than maybe 60m out. This is in no ones best interests.

The game has unquestionably gone more physical and more defensive. Crowding out forward lines by flooding back midfielders and half forwards is now the order of the day. I'm not quiet sure what can really be done in terms of stopping this trend, I think it's just the way is evolving to be honest but I don't think it's as attractive to watch as it was in the late 00's when teams played a more open style.

The rules are a bit too open to interpretation aswell. What one ref gives as charging another will say the attacking player was being illegally held up. Over carrying is technically 4 steps but it's never really pulled if you take any less than 6 or 7 and if you're being tackled then you can probably take over 8. All of this is purely at the individual ref's discretion though. Generally the refs do an ok job of applying common sense I think but they could still do with trying to make the rules more "cut and dried".

I definitely agree about either making 65's either indirect or as a sideline cut from the corner or something. It's far too much of a punishment for what can often be great defending or a great save to award a free to the opposition from 65m out, which at the higher levels is pretty much a guaranteed point.

I see the argument about the 2 point sideline mentioned again. This can't be brought in. It would suit my own county given that Canning seems to score one in most games but I still think it would be an unfair rule. The reason being similar to the rationale behind 65s being unfair. It would unduly punish a good block or tackle a defender makes if someone like Joe Canning or Austin Gleeson just trots over and puts 2 points on the board for their team.

Imagine a team is 1 point up against Galway with a minute to go and we're attacking down near the sideline. The defender has a choice to make now, does he try defend properly and try to disposses the attacking player legally which could result in a sideline cut that would give Canning a chance to win the game? Or does he pull down the attacker leaving a free but means his team are guaranteed at least a draw?
It would be a big decision to make for the defender and you can't bring in a rule that could potentially reward foul play.

Corcaigh84 · 06-07-2016 03:29PM

Not sure you can get rid of handpassing altogether, but maybe ban it completely inside the 21.

My pet peeve from playing and watching the game is the holding of the hurley. Again, another 'dark art' very difficult to spot, but if yellows were dished out for things like this, along with pulling and dragging of the man in possession, then maybe lads would get the message and stop playing what at times looks like a variant of rugby.

CrabRevolution · 06-07-2016 04:12PM

A sideline is no more skillful than a point from your own half or from a tight angle. Why should it be worth 2 points?

Usually the value of something is increased when the authorities reckon it's not happening often enough, in order to make people try for it more often. As it stands, every team from senior inter county sides down to junior Z club teams always, always have a crack at the posts from a sideline, even if the taker can't hit the ball 5 yards. Why would you encourage something that has a 100% attempt rate as it is?

Making hurling better

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