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50 acre farm rent

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  • 27-06-2016 10:54am
    #1
    beya2009
    Registered Users Posts: 675 ✭✭✭


    I have 50 acre of grass land I want to lease out without single farm payment. What is the current rental amount per acre annually? It's electric fenced and supply of water included.
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    #2
    I said
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,855 ✭✭✭I said


    Approach your local auctioneer he/she will do all for you


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    #3
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    It is really dependent on area. In some area's land can be got for 100-150/acre, where dairy and grain compete it can be 300+/acre. Land could be virtually the same.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #4
    Ms Doubtfire1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Ms Doubtfire1


    beya2009 wrote: »
    I have 50 acre of grass land I want to lease out without single farm payment. What is the current rental amount per acre annually? It's electric fenced and supply of water included.

    You can't.if you lease out the land you'll loose the single farm payment on the land


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    #5
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,434 ✭✭✭fepper


    Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »
    You can't.if you lease out the land you'll loose the single farm payment on the land

    SFP usually tied up in rental price


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    #6
    Ms Doubtfire1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Ms Doubtfire1


    agreed but you can't receive it in rent AND SFP. it's either one or the other.


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    #7
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,434 ✭✭✭fepper


    Your right,person who has land gets SFP only but the op should add that value to that lease per ha.


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    #8
    djmc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭djmc


    I thought the op was talking about letting grass only eg. selling crop of standing silage.
    AFAIK that is allowed as long as there are not cattle from outside your herd there
    there is also the option of contract rearing where cattle are moved into your herd for an agreed fixed price and term.


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    #9
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    Can you not let the land for 11 months, annually. And still claim the SFP?

    Maybe you cant now, but I thought this was acceptable? (And yes yes, I know some people call it armchair farming or whatever, but as far as I know, its allowed)


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    #10
    Willfarman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭Willfarman


    You can rent grassland without the maps for sfp. Ludicrous and is rewarding land ownership rather than a farmer. 80 to 300 an acre depending on factors listed above.


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    #11
    J.O. Farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,429 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    Willfarman wrote: »
    You can rent grassland without the maps for sfp. Ludicrous and is rewarding land ownership rather than a farmer. 80 to 300 an acre depending on factors listed above.

    Is it acceptable then to submit the maps for sfp. I wouldn't have thought so (not saying it doesn't happen). What happens if the person renting the land has an inspection and the cattleare on that land.


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    #12
    Willfarman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭Willfarman


    J.O. Farmer wrote: »
    Is it acceptable then to submit the maps for sfp. I wouldn't have thought so (not saying it doesn't happen). What happens if the person renting the land has an inspection and the cattleare on that land.

    Provided the leasee has a lease and there is no other cattle on the land nothing happens,

    it's a crazy set up now there is no link between single farm payment and actual farm production whatsoever.

    There is a minimum stocking rate required for the disadvantaged payment or grassland scheme as its called now.


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    #13
    J.O. Farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,429 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    Willfarman wrote: »
    Provided the leasee has a lease and there is no other cattle on the land nothing happens,

    it's a crazy set up now there is no link between single farm payment and actual farm production whatsoever.

    There is a minimum stocking rate required for the disadvantaged payment or grassland scheme as its called now.

    I was thinking more the leaser should have the use of the land for sfp but they can't if someone else has it leased.


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    #14
    Willfarman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭Willfarman


    J.O. Farmer wrote: »
    I was thinking more the leaser should have the use of the land for sfp but they can't if someone else has it leased.

    Nothing in the sfp stipulates that you actually have to farm the land. Money for jam.. I'm one of the very dim witted goms renting land without maps..


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    #15
    J.O. Farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,429 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    Willfarman wrote: »
    Nothing in the sfp stipulates that you actually have to farm the land. Money for jam.. I'm one of the very dim witted goms renting land without maps..

    Seems like a stupid loophole then. They mmight as well pay out on entitlements with no land so if all that's nneeded is the right to submit a map. The map is just extra work


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    #16
    Willfarman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭Willfarman


    J.O. Farmer wrote: »
    Seems like a stupid loophole then. They mmight as well pay out on entitlements with no land so if all that's nneeded is the right to submit a map. The map is just extra work

    If you have entitlements and can find land that hasn't been drawn on. Then you can can draw your entitlements on that land without setting foot on it.


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    #17
    Base price
    Registered Users Posts: 11,157 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    Can't understand the negative sentiment towards farmers letting land and still claiming SFP.
    In the majority of cases, those (farmers/parents) worked their arses off to maintain cattle/cow herds in order to keep food on the table whilst unknowingly building up entitlements. Some of them are now in retirement age and good luck to them. I wish I was in their position.


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    #18
    zetor 4911
    Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭zetor 4911


    Willfarman wrote: »
    Nothing in the sfp stipulates that you actually have to farm the land. Money for jam.. I'm one of the very dim witted goms renting land without maps..

    Willfarman your are wrong about this it's in the terms and Conditions of the schemes it states,

    (i) Active Farmer
    To participate in BPS and related schemes a person must be an ‘active farmer’ as set out in Article 9 (1) Regulation (EU) No 1307/2013 and related Regulations. Only farmers who fulfill the following condition will be considered an ‘active farmer’ and will be eligible to participate in
    BPS and related Schemes; i. A ‘farmer’ is defined as a natural or legal person, or a group of natural or legal persons, who exercises an agricultural activity as set out in Section 1.5 (ii).
    Section 1.5 (ii) states
    In order to be eligible for payment each land parcel must have an agricultural activity carried out on it. An ‘Agricultural Activity’ means:
    a) The production, rearing or growing of agricultural products, including harvesting, milking, breeding animals, and keeping animals for farming purposes.
    b) Maintaining an agricultural area in a state suitable for grazing or cultivation.
    So it's not the gravy train that some think.


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    #19
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    zetor 4911 wrote: »
    Willfarman your are wrong about this it's in the terms and Conditions of the schemes it states,

    (i) Active Farmer
    To participate in BPS and related schemes a person must be an ‘active farmer’ as set out in Article 9 (1) Regulation (EU) No 1307/2013 and related Regulations. Only farmers who fulfill the following condition will be considered an ‘active farmer’ and will be eligible to participate in
    BPS and related Schemes; i. A ‘farmer’ is defined as a natural or legal person, or a group of natural or legal persons, who exercises an agricultural activity as set out in Section 1.5 (ii).
    Section 1.5 (ii) states
    In order to be eligible for payment each land parcel must have an agricultural activity carried out on it. An ‘Agricultural Activity’ means:
    a) The production, rearing or growing of agricultural products, including harvesting, milking, breeding animals, and keeping animals for farming purposes.
    b) Maintaining an agricultural area in a state suitable for grazing or cultivation.
    So it's not the gravy train that some think.

    Sure you could farm it for one month a year and let it for 11 months. Would that not meet the conditions listed above?

    Or you could farm 100 acres and have 1 sheep, and that meets the conditions above...

    They aren't exactly strict to be fair... ;)

    I am fairly confident that it's possible to let for 11 months and still claim SFP.


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    #20
    Sam Kade
    Registered Users Posts: 12,313 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    Anyone I know renting out and still getting sfp do it through the person renting. The person renting the land claims for sfp and they pay it back to the person who owns the land.


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    #21
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    Sam Kade wrote: »
    Anyone I know renting out and still getting sfp do it through the person renting. The person renting the land claims for sfp and they pay it back to the person who owns the land.

    Which can be done for long term leases, with a % of the SFP payable with the rent.

    Of course it could be done for annual leases as well, but is not necessary a far as I know.


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    #22
    Willfarman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭Willfarman


    I am renting land without the maps. The landowner is retaining a small amount of land for farming himself but is renting out 70 per cent of it on these terms.. And sfp isn't supposed to be a bloody pension or a loyalty reward scheme.. Is it not to subsidise poor produce prices ?? and encourage environmental and good animal welfare and so on best practice in food production.. Money for fookin jam for owning land and entitlements lads!!!


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    #23
    Willfarman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭Willfarman


    Sam Kade wrote: »
    Anyone I know renting out and still getting sfp do it through the person renting. The person renting the land claims for sfp and they pay it back to the person who owns the land.

    Which is equally non sensical.


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    #24
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    Willfarman wrote: »
    I am renting land without the maps. The landowner is retaining a small amount of land for farming himself but is renting out 70 per cent of it on these terms.. And sfp isn't supposed to be a bloody pension or a loyalty reward scheme.. Is it not to subsidise poor produce prices ?? and encourage environmental and good animal welfare and so on best practice in food production.. Money for fookin jam for owning land and entitlements lads!!!

    They seem to have tightened up on entitlements since the BFP 2 years ago or whenever it was. You can't buy or trade in em as easy now.

    But there was what - 12 years of SFP?

    I think if you started farming in the last few years, then you would be right to feel a bit hard done by. But entitlements were there to be traded. So for 10+ years, that money was there to be made for everyone...


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    #25
    cute geoge
    Registered Users Posts: 2,866 ✭✭✭cute geoge


    Willfarman wrote: »
    I am renting land without the maps. The landowner is retaining a small amount of land for farming himself but is renting out 70 per cent of it on these terms.. And sfp isn't supposed to be a bloody pension or a loyalty reward scheme.. Is it not to subsidise poor produce prices ?? and encourage environmental and good animal welfare and so on best practice in food production.. Money for fookin jam for owning land and entitlements lads!!!

    I presume you are not using this land to graze your cattle on .
    Is it only legal for landowner to let this for silage or hay?


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    #26
    eorna
    Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭eorna


    What happens if there is an inspection??


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    #27
    Willfarman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭Willfarman


    Username John wrote: »
    They seem to have tightened up on entitlements since the BFP 2 years ago or whenever it was. You can't buy or trade in em as easy now.

    But there was what - 12 years of SFP?

    I think if you started farming in the last few years, then you would be right to feel a bit hard done by. But entitlements were there to be traded. So for 10+ years, that money was there to be made for everyone...

    Active farmers are overwhelming contributing a good proportion of their single farm payment back to the local economy. The armchair farmers are just taking the proverbial!

    That's all I gotta say about that


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    #28
    Willfarman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭Willfarman


    cute geoge wrote: »
    I presume you are not using this land to graze your cattle on .
    Is it only legal for landowner to let this for silage or hay?

    The terms are March to November to mow or graze. And It passed the scritiny of an inspection before now. It is taken into account for nitrates..


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    #29
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,434 ✭✭✭fepper


    Willfarman wrote: »
    Active farmers are overwhelming contributing a good proportion of their single farm payment back to the local economy. The armchair farmers are just taking the proverbial!

    That's all I gotta say about that

    Surely you weren't expecting the use of their land for half nothing just because it had SFP on it,then you'd be taking the proverbial!!


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    #30
    Willfarman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭Willfarman


    fepper wrote: »
    Surely you weren't expecting the use of their land for half nothing just because it had SFP on it,then you'd be taking the proverbial!!

    I never said I expect a reduction in actual land lease rates. Leasing land is important and age old.
    I am just pointing out a major economic flaw.

    If sfp money isn't going to active farmers for actual production linked with good standards of works it is just welfare money with no strings attached..


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    #31
    Base price
    Registered Users Posts: 11,157 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    Willfarman wrote: »
    Active farmers are overwhelming contributing a good proportion of their single farm payment back to the local economy. The armchair farmers are just taking the proverbial!

    That's all I gotta say about that
    Total bollox. I know many retired farmers in their 60's/70's who like me worked their fecking arses off to become efficient farmers which happen to coincide with the reference years. They are not armchair farmers they are just old/worn out and entitled to their down time. They spend within their local economies the same as any other person of their age.
    How dare you classify them as taking the proverbial.
    You like everyone else had the opportunity to buy entitlements - did you capture the opportunity or let it slip?


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