Eir rural FTTH thread

pegasus1 · 18-06-2016 12:18PM

daraghwal wrote: »

No need to be wary. It's a different system. The only risk to performance when it is set up and working is congestion against your neighbours who are with imagines LTE service as well.

Or trees etc..

ED E · 18-06-2016 12:23PM

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Sorry this is still OT, but I've noticed that when our Nova connection gets squirrelly our 3G on our phones seems to go to pot as well. This is why I'm wary of LTE.

That's a dodgy feed to the site itself then. I would expect Imagine would only use 5 9s masts.

Oafley Jones · 18-06-2016 02:03PM

Thanks Guys, I've a few more questions for you that I'll ask in the Imagine thread.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 18-06-2016 03:45PM

I think a lot of the credit for the maps has to go to former member Sponge Bob who set up a FTTC mapping thread here. I believe this prompted Eircom to produce their own maps.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 18-06-2016 03:53PM

In regard to the FTTH rollout surely the elephant in the room is the NBP contract. Many were sceptical of openeir's announcement seeing it as mainly a land grab. Now if openeir feel confident of winning one or both tenders where is the incentive to invest their own capital rolling out FTTH when they can hold on and receive subsidies to build.

At the very least the 100000 premises by March 2017 is looking highly unrealistic.

Gonzo · 18-06-2016 04:35PM

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

In regard to the FTTH rollout surely the elephant in the room is the NBP contract. Many were sceptical of openeir's announcement seeing it as mainly a land grab. Now if openeir feel confident of winning one or both tenders where is the incentive to invest their own capital rolling out FTTH when they can hold on and receive subsidies to build.

At the very least the 100000 premises by March 2017 is looking highly unrealistic.

I am beginning to think the 100,000 premises wont be completed by March myself.

These 100,000 premises cover many 100s of miles of fibre when all added up, the blue line network really is quite complex and no fibre has been strung from the poles yet.

I presume most of the ducting has already been completed (which is a slow process). Perhaps stringing fibre from pole to pole is a relatively quick process and if they start stringing fibre to the poles over the next couple of weeks perhaps it will only take a few weeks to string fibre around an area and move onto the next area. If that's the case then we have nothing to really worry about.

If the stringing of fibre via poles is slower (as slow as the ducting) then I fear this could take much longer than March 2017. They really should be starting this now as we have long daylight hours, relatively fine weather. I can't imagine them doing this sort of work in November-February when we are frequently lashed with relentless rain and high winds as well as small daylight hours.

daraghwal · 18-06-2016 04:48PM

Gonzo wrote: »

I am beginning to think the 100,000 premises wont be completed by March myself.

These 100,000 premises cover many 100s of miles of fibre when all added up, the blue line network really is quite complex and no fibre has been strung from the poles yet.

I presume most of the ducting has already been completed (which is a slow process). Perhaps stringing fibre from pole to pole is a relatively quick process and if they start stringing fibre to the poles over the next couple of weeks perhaps it will only take a few weeks to string fibre around an area and move onto the next area. If that's the case then we have nothing to really worry about.

If the stringing of fibre via poles is slower (as slow as the ducting) then I fear this could take much longer than March 2017. They really should be starting this now as we have long daylight hours, relatively fine weather. I can't imagine them doing this sort of work in November-February when we are frequently lashed with relentless rain and high winds as well as small daylight hours.

Even if they started on Monday doing 5 days a week they would have to cover 500 FTTH installs per day or if they worked 7 days a week 360 homes per day up to 31 March 2017. I doubt that will happen and there is obviously going to be a few days maybe even weeks in 'storm mode' where all techs are out doing repairs instead of installs.

legocrazy505 · 18-06-2016 04:51PM

To be honest though Eir were always going to sit on their backsides for a bit once the NBP got delayed. The blue lines are simply protection of their monopoly on rural Irish fixed lines. Siro haven't been very speedy either which is why Eir can afford to sit around. Until it's clear Eir will sweep up all contracts for the NBP or there is a threat someone else can take them then don't expect much.

Just hope though while these ISPs who want 1gbps fibre laid down are sitting around that Imagine don't come to "serve" you.

rob808 · 18-06-2016 06:47PM

Gonzo wrote: »

I am beginning to think the 100,000 premises wont be completed by March myself.

These 100,000 premises cover many 100s of miles of fibre when all added up, the blue line network really is quite complex and no fibre has been strung from the poles yet.

I presume most of the ducting has already been completed (which is a slow process). Perhaps stringing fibre from pole to pole is a relatively quick process and if they start stringing fibre to the poles over the next couple of weeks perhaps it will only take a few weeks to string fibre around an area and move onto the next area. If that's the case then we have nothing to really worry about.

If the stringing of fibre via poles is slower (as slow as the ducting) then I fear this could take much longer than March 2017. They really should be starting this now as we have long daylight hours, relatively fine weather. I can't imagine them doing this sort of work in November-February when we are frequently lashed with relentless rain and high winds as well as small daylight hours.

it autumn/winter so most likely they start In September stringing up fibre on the pole.I think there trying to finish up the FTTC rollout first or at least most of it.I'm down for winter16/17 so most likely mine won't start till December and finish in March.

KOR101 · 18-06-2016 09:03PM

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

In regard to the FTTH rollout surely the elephant in the room is the NBP contract. Many were sceptical of openeir's announcement seeing it as mainly a land grab. Now if openeir feel confident of winning one or both tenders where is the incentive to invest their own capital rolling out FTTH when they can hold on and receive subsidies to build.

At the very least the 100000 premises by March 2017 is looking highly unrealistic.

Remember, Eir's CEO has said they are prepared to sign a commitment contract. Presumably that's true

and they must be nervous about 'dark' horses.

I think the way we should read the 100,000 by March '17 goal, is that Eir reckon that once they get FTTC out of the way, they should be able to do about 2,000 a week. Where the FTTH numbers stands at the moment for both Eir and SIRO is opaque to say the least.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 18-06-2016 09:19PM

KOR101 wrote: »

Remember, Eir's CEO has said they are prepared to sign a commitment contract. Presumably that's true and they must be nervous about 'dark' horses.

I think the way we should read the 100,000 by March '17 goal, is that Eir reckon that once they get FTTC out of the way, they should be able to do about 2,000 a week. Where the FTTH numbers stands at the moment for both Eir and SIRO is opaque to say the least.

A month has passed since the article about eir's willingness to sign a contract. Nothing more has been mentioned about it as far as I can see. I assume if it was signed we would have heard. Moat also didn't elaborate about what terms or timelines eir would agree to.

2000 premises a week equates to 400 a day. That seems ludicrously optimistic to me.

jd · 18-06-2016 09:24PM

They aren't saying 100k customer installs by then. They are saying available to 100k premises, which is a bit different!

digiman · 18-06-2016 09:33PM

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

A month has passed since the article about eir's willingness to sign a contract. Nothing more has been mentioned about it as far as I can see. I assume if it was signed we would have heard. Moat also didn't elaborate about what terms or timelines eir would agree to.

2000 premises a week equates to 400 a day. That seems ludicrously optimistic to me.

It completely depends on how OpenEir define a home as passed. I've heard from people in the know and on here that they may claim a home as passed but they have no idea if it's actually possible to serve the home "easily" for KNN when it comes to time of install and there are lots of installs that get cancelled due to this.

For example someone posted on here that they were eligible for FTTH but when it came to install time KNN had 800m of fibre to install. That is certainly not sustainable model for many homes but my point is if that's how they define a home as passed then they will be able to hit their 100k homes but only a fraction will end be viable to connect.

It's certainly not comparable to FTTC where they have over a million homes passed but in some of these cases the homes will get faster speeds on ADSL2+ than they would on VDSL due to distance from cabinet. Sure they will define those homes as passed for FTTC but why would a customer sign up for a lower speed?

Kensei · 18-06-2016 09:54PM

Before I punch out of this thread I figured I'd let you guys know (those who wanted to compare Imagine with eir in terms of progress), I've been talking to their representatives and the information they gave me was very interesting.

What they said is that they enable 8 new zones per month. Like 8 towns. Also they said that if they can't guarantee you 30 mbps connection, they will not even install it. So no more "up to" crap. Respect.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 18-06-2016 09:54PM

digiman wrote: »

It completely depends on how OpenEir define a home as passed.

I assume a premises would be deemed to be passed if there was fibre on the eir plant (ducting or poles) that usually is on the roadside at the entrance to a building. Just looking at the openeir site and in the past 12 months they have enabled 200653 lines for FTTC. Now we are expecting them to do half that amount in nine months with vastly more fibre to be installed, vastly more labour involved with what is essentially a new technology for many of those involved.

KOR101 · 18-06-2016 10:55PM

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

I assume a premises would be deemed to be passed if there was fibre on the eir plant (ducting or poles) that usually is on the roadside at the entrance to a building. Just looking at the openeir site and in the past 12 months they have enabled 200653 lines for FTTC. Now we are expecting them to do half that amount in nine months with vastly more fibre to be installed, vastly more labour involved with what is essentially a new technology for many of those involved.

Yeah, their goal for the first 100k looks unbelievable. but 100k a year does give an end date of 2022 more or less.

ED E · 19-06-2016 02:17AM

There are two positives here: KNN have continued to hire in more hands and OpenEir have already done some of the prep work for that 100k. If they throw everything at rollout and little at appointments its not dream land stuff, but still very optimistic. Better to aim high and fail than to aim low and move slowly though IMO.

Johnboy1951 · 19-06-2016 10:45AM

What is the average number of premises covered by 'blue-lines' from the exchanges?

How many 'sets' of blue-line runs/exchanges are there?

What would be the initial expected uptake of fibre connections in those premises passed?

With dedicated teams doing the physical roll out of the fibre cable, and a well prepared scheme for making it live and making individual connections, it would not take a huge effort to connect those of us gagging for the fibre connection, as the number will be well below the 'premises passed', initially.

As this is a commercial roll out, I can imagine that eir will do those exchanges with the largest number of premises on blue-lines, first.
Those of us on runs with smaller numbers will likely be at the tail end of the roll out.

daraghwal · 19-06-2016 11:14AM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

What is the average number of premises covered by 'blue-lines' from the exchanges?

How many 'sets' of blue-line runs/exchanges are there?

What would be the initial expected uptake of fibre connections in those premises passed?

With dedicated teams doing the physical roll out of the fibre cable, and a well prepared scheme for making it live and making individual connections, it would not take a huge effort to connect those of us gagging for the fibre connection, as the number will be well below the 'premises passed', initially.

As this is a commercial roll out, I can imagine that eir will do those exchanges with the largest number of premises on blue-lines, first.
Those of us on runs with smaller numbers will likely be at the tail end of the roll out.

There are 200 exchanges in the first 100,000 homes

Expected uptake would be hard to predict because of failed installs, people who have already signed up to other providers etc.

The average number of premises per exchange is 512 on the first 100,000 homes.

Total rollout for first 100,000 homes is actually 106300-106800

Average homes per county 4108

It is hard to know whether or not they will do the big exchanges first. That is certainly not the way they did the FTTC rollout. As discussed before, we simply do not know what makes open eir pick different exchanges. Some think it's economics, others think it's politics, we just don't know.

ED E · 19-06-2016 11:19AM

Remember the figures are passed lads, not connected. They don't have to do any installs to meet their targets.

Johnboy1951 · 19-06-2016 11:26AM

Yes I had ~500 premises average in mind.
I also had something around 10% initial take-up in mind.
I wonder if it will be much bigger initially.

If the take-up is as low as that then I can see the blue-line roll out happening within estimated time scale.

Gonzo · 19-06-2016 11:54AM

Eir's figures definitely refer to premises passed.
I figure the premises as passed once the fibre runs past the house along the poles.

My guess is that FTTH installs will be quite high in many blue lined areas as there is nothing else available! Going from 1-10meg to 1000mb is a no brainer for most people, some of these premises can't even get standard dsl as it is.

Johnboy1951 · 19-06-2016 02:53PM

Gonzo wrote: »

Eir's figures definitely refer to premises passed.
I figure the premises as passed once the fibre runs past the house along the poles.

My guess is that FTTH installs will be quite high in many blue lined areas as there is nothing else available! Going from 1-10meg to 1000mb is a no brainer for most people, some of these premises can't even get standard dsl as it is.

I agree, with the exception that I expect the initial take up to be quite low - say 10% - but much higher within 12 months.

snowstreams · 20-06-2016 10:05AM

Gonzo wrote: »

Eir's figures definitely refer to premises passed.
I figure the premises as passed once the fibre runs past the house along the poles.

My guess is that FTTH installs will be quite high in many blue lined areas as there is nothing else available! Going from 1-10meg to 1000mb is a no brainer for most people, some of these premises can't even get standard dsl as it is.

I agree that there isnt much available. But from talking to some neighbours around me, they are going to sign up to Imagine LTE for an 18 month contract. Imagine are pushing hard at the moment before FTTH gets going id say.

I'm using a 4g dongle rolling contract, so I'll be straight onto Eir once they are ready. (I'm in the first 100000 by the way)

ED E · 20-06-2016 10:24AM

It really doesn't matter. OpenEir are putting this in for 20-∞ years. Missing out on 12mo of rental on a deployment this size will bump their cashflow a little but not enough to worry anyone, theyre able to raise capital now that they're not completely in a hole.

plodder · 21-06-2016 08:16AM

Gonzo wrote: »

I am beginning to think the 100,000 premises wont be completed by March myself.

These 100,000 premises cover many 100s of miles of fibre when all added up, the blue line network really is quite complex and no fibre has been strung from the poles yet.

But, they are claiming FTTH installs have been done already (500 in May). So, there must be fibre up on poles already.

Johnboy1951 · 21-06-2016 08:40AM

plodder wrote: »

But, they are claiming FTTH installs have been done already (500 in May). So, there must be fibre up on poles already.

Maybe it is in ducting underground and not up on poles?

Shyboy · 21-06-2016 08:51AM

plodder wrote: »

But, they are claiming FTTH installs have been done already (500 in May). So, there must be fibre up on poles already.

My rural village is one of the first down for FTTH in Autumn 2016 and I have mentioned before that I already "think" that the fibre is on the poles.

About a year ago eircom came and replaced all of the poles in the area and replaced the cable which was a thin (I assume copper) cable with two really thick cables, could this be the fibre already in place on the poles?

daraghwal · 21-06-2016 09:01AM

Shyboy wrote: »

My rural village is one of the first down for FTTH in Autumn 2016 and I have mentioned before that I already "think" that the fibre is on the poles.

About a year ago eircom came and replaced all of the poles in the area and replaced the cable which was a thin (I assume copper) cable with two really thick cables, could this be the fibre already in place on the poles?

That may be feeding fibre to the exchange? I know they started doing that a good few years ago. Mine was done about 4 years ago with fibre to the exchange.

jd · 21-06-2016 09:06AM

plodder wrote: »

But, they are claiming FTTH installs have been done already (500 in May). So, there must be fibre up on poles already.

Looking at
http://fibrerollout.ie/2016-05-13000-fibre-premises-added/

I think they passed another 500 homes with fibre in May, and this wasn't rural, but in Cavan (70), Sligo(160), and Greystones(270).
Adds up to the 500.

Eir rural FTTH thread

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