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Philip Cairns' Murder finally confirmed?

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Comments

  • #752
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    Going Forward wrote: »
    The risk.

    A child would have went unnoticed carrying a schoolbag and slipped it off their arm as instructed.

    An adult on the other hand might have been noticed.

    Then the why?
    As a token of some sort of remorse?

    Or to simply "challenge" the Gardai.

    A deliberately brazen act or something else?

    Anything is possible. Could be somebody who thought they were going to be searched and dumped it. Is Occam's razor the old way of saying keep it simple.


  • #753
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    Stasi 2.0 wrote: »
    The media reports don't make clear if this was an actual radio call sign (i.e they were letting Cooke transmit on police frequencies -normally this would be considered highly illegal -even having equipment to listen to them was an offence at the time) or just a nickname the cops used among themselves (for example Martin Cahill was referred to as "Tango One").

    He was communicating with them.

    He was entertained by the uniforms whilst impersonating them.

    "He even used a blue light on the top of his car, to appear like an unmarked garda car, and deployed a CB radio to communicate with garda Command and Control section in Dublin Castle. Incredibly, he was even given the code sign 'Alpha Seven', an official garda code designation in the city's 'A' district.

    Cooke always 'patrolled' at night, often pursuing stolen vehicles and calling in burglaries and assaults."

    Gerry O Carroll.

    http://m.herald.ie/news/courts/30-years-on-none-of-us-who-searched-for-philip-could-believe-this-twist-34794655.html


  • #754
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    Fleawuss wrote: »
    Anything is possible. Could be somebody who thought they were going to be searched and dumped it. Is Occam's razor the old way of saying keep it simple.

    You'd dump it over a wall though.

    But yes anything is possible, if it's purpose was to confuse, it succeeded.


  • #755
    Stasi 2.0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭Stasi 2.0


    Going Forward wrote: »
    a CB radio to communicate with garda Command and Control section in Dublin Castle.

    A CB radio wont transmit (or even listen) on police frequencies but its possible the media reports have ballsed up their terminology* (again) and Cooke had a police band radio.

    * Like when they describe him as a "DJ"


  • #756
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    Stasi 2.0 wrote: »
    A CB radio wont transmit (or even listen) on police frequencies but its possible the media reports have ballsed up their terminology* (again) and Cooke had a police band radio.

    * Like when they describe him as a "DJ"

    Would it have, back then, that was an ex detective making the claim BTW.


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  • #757
    Stasi 2.0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭Stasi 2.0


    Nope CB and Police radios work on completely different frequency ranges -always have done.

    The Stuff about Cooke using the RTE mast was also pretty laughable.


  • #758
    Esel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,471 ✭✭✭✭Esel
    Not Your Ornery Onager


    The Gardaí monitored all CB channels.

    Not your ornery onager



  • #759
    Kamili
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭Kamili


    Stasi 2.0 wrote: »
    The media reports don't make clear if this was an actual radio call sign (i.e they were letting Cooke transmit on police frequencies -normally this would be considered highly illegal -even having equipment to listen to them was an offence at the time) or just a nickname the cops used among themselves (for example Martin Cahill was referred to as "Tango One").
    From what I've read, they were letting him transmit, he used to call over the radio Alpha7 in pursuit of a a suspect and the gardai would follow up in it.


  • #760
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    The bag annoys me. Did he bring it home at lunch? It seems he did. It seems he walked back with it. 6 days later it turns up minus a few books. Why a few books missing? Had they some evidence on them? It turns up in the afternoon? It will be very interesting if the dna is linked to Cooke. It will be even more interesting if there is unknown Dna there. A mass test of an appropriate demographic might be interesting.


  • #761
    Stasi 2.0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭Stasi 2.0


    Esel wrote: »
    The Gardaí monitored all CB channels.

    Having listened to CB myself back in the day I would like to think the cops would have better things for doing ?


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  • #762
    Esel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,471 ✭✭✭✭Esel
    Not Your Ornery Onager


    Stasi 2.0 wrote: »
    Having listened to CB myself back in the day I would like to think the cops would have better things for doing ?
    Lots of bogeys used CB back then. All channels were recorded 24/7. Cooke probably used the emergency channel, which was definitely monitored in real-time.

    Not your ornery onager



  • #763
    Stasi 2.0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 295 ✭✭Stasi 2.0


    Esel wrote: »
    Lots of bogeys used CB back then. All channels were recorded 24/7.

    Monitoring all 40 official channels (not to mention the hundreds of unofficial ones) 24/7 would be a pretty massive undertaking and CB radio wasn't even legal in Ireland until well into the 1980's
    Esel wrote: »
    Cooke probably used the emergency channel, which was definitely monitored in real-time.

    This was the case for a while in parts of the US but not in Ireland.

    RE: The bag and DNA a schoolbag by its nature could have dozens of peoples DNA on it perfectly innocently.


  • #764
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    Stasi 2.0 wrote: »
    Monitoring all 40 official channels (not to mention the hundreds of unofficial ones) 24/7 would be a pretty massive undertaking and CB radio wasn't even legal in Ireland until well into the 1980's



    This was the case for a while in parts of the US but not in Ireland.

    RE: The bag and DNA a schoolbag by its nature could have dozens of peoples DNA on it perfectly innocently.

    The bag has 3 apparently.


  • #765
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    Fleawuss wrote: »
    The bag annoys me. Did he bring it home at lunch? It seems he did. It seems he walked back with it. 6 days later it turns up minus a few books. Why a few books missing? Had they some evidence on them? It turns up in the afternoon? It will be very interesting if the dna is linked to Cooke. It will be even more interesting if there is unknown Dna there. A mass test of an appropriate demographic might be interesting.

    Did he bring it home at lunch time, why would he?


  • #766
    Means Of Escape
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭Means Of Escape


    This case is a dead duck.
    The opportunity to have some chance of solving it died with Cooke .
    No one else has come forward since he popped his clogs and are unlikely to.
    If he didn't do it he probably knew who did as he was pals with Walsh the singing priest etc .
    These miscreants are clever who covered their tracks and coupled with the passage of time had plenty of time to conceal even further making a conviction all but impossible without a body .

    Too late .


  • #767
    monkey9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,337 ✭✭✭✭monkey9


    Going Forward wrote: »
    Did he bring it home at lunch time, why would he?

    He'd bring it home with him to change his books for his classes after lunch. It's what i used to do anyway.

    The bag being left/found in the laneway days later is such a strange one. If you wanted to get rid of it, you'd burn it, you'd it throw away in a bin far away from the scene so it looked like a random bag etc. Why put it back near the scene of where Philip was last seen? That bag drop really is peculiar.


  • #768
    Allyall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Allyall


    Unless it had been given to another victim the same day or thereabouts, but that victim was too scared or unable to put the bag back until 6 days later.


  • #769
    Esel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,471 ✭✭✭✭Esel
    Not Your Ornery Onager


    Stasi 2.0 wrote: »
    Monitoring all 40 official channels (not to mention the hundreds of unofficial ones) 24/7 would be a pretty massive undertaking and CB radio wasn't even legal in Ireland until well into the 1980's.

    This was the case for a while in parts of the US but not in Ireland.
    Whether you doubt it or not, it happened. Let's not derail the thread any further.

    Not your ornery onager



  • #770
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Going Forward wrote: »
    None.

    There was only a finite number of individuals as sick/evil as Cooke in Dublin at the time.

    I say feigning interest because it's not the first time a witness came forward to name Cooke.

    He was reported in 2011.
    Apparently the team actively investigating the case dismissed the idea, even with 3 separate DNA samples in their possession from the schoolbag.

    Realistically, how many other names have they been given over the last 30 years?

    No more than a handful is my guess.

    A handful to investigate, to cross reference, to charge or to eliminate.

    How many were ever brought in for questioning?

    None to my knowledge, but I'm open to being corrected.

    There's nothing substantially different now than first time round but now when he's dead they start to actively investigate him.

    Both reports came from women who were very young at the time, both could be complete rubbish, or mistaken or accurate, but if given a name of an evil individual wouldn't you think they'd do some checking up on him?

    That is the problem wth poorly written, ambiguous reports (Indo take a bow). Someone came forward in 2011 but then decided not to make a statement.
    I assume the Gardai could not therefore legally pursue it.

    As you say, you are only guessing. They have announced 160 lines of enquiry. Let's see what happens. I suspect a lot more evidence about Cooke will come out in a few weeks.


  • #771
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Going Forward wrote: »
    You'd dump it over a wall though.

    But yes anything is possible, if it's purpose was to confuse, it succeeded.

    It's the behaviour of a psychopathic narcessist.


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  • #772
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    LorMal wrote: »
    That is the problem wth poorly written, ambiguous reports (Indo take a bow). Someone came forward in 2011 but then decided not to make a statement.
    I assume the Gardai could not therefore legally pursue it.

    So if they receive an informal "tip off" they can't legally pursue it?

    Received in confidence about a convicted paedo and arsonist in the context of one of the highest profile missing persons cases.

    That is absurd.


  • #773
    nacho libre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,097 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    monkey9 wrote: »
    The similarities between Cooke and Savile are strange in regards to how they were treated by authorities. You had Savile allowed to work in hospitals and given his own set of keys, he even had his own room to sleep over in. Why?

    And then you have Cooke listening in to Garda radio calls and being the first on crime scene's, scouring the streets at night with a light on top of his car like an unofficial guard, even been given that secret official Garda code.

    This is what i've been getting at in earlier posts. There seems to be striking parallels between how Saville and Cooke operated seemingly above the law.
    I am beginning to think the irish independents purpose here is as a useful idiot for some of his associates.


  • #774
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Going Forward wrote: »
    So if they receive an informal "tip off" they can't legally pursue it?

    Received in confidence about a convicted paedo and arsonist in the context of one of the highest profile missing persons cases.

    That is absurd.

    You keep questioning the Gardas position on this. What do you think happened? Are you saying they are deliberately covering up for Cooke?


  • #775
    StephenHendry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭StephenHendry


    there had to be a reason why Philip was abducted and killed, according to his family he was happy, normal etc. and well behaved etc, why was he kidnapped then ? did he hear about others who were abused and the people who doing this kidnapped Philip to silence him ? even if Philip went to his parents and gardai about others who were being abused , would he have been believed at all , given how badly child abuse cases were handled back then and that so many reported cases went unpunished, going by Philips mothers , Philip was a quiet lad so there was no guarantee he might actually have said anything about paedophile activity that he knew off, his family said that there were no obvious and defninite changes in his behaviour, I think for him to be killed was just so extreme when most vicitims of child abuse are not killed/murdered


  • #776
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    StephenHendry wrote: »
    there had to be a reason why Philip was abducted and killed, according to his family he was happy, normal etc. and well behaved etc, why was he kidnapped then ? did he hear about others who were abused and the people who doing this kidnapped Philip to silence him ? even if Philip went to his parents and gardai about others who were being abused , would he have been believed at all , given how badly child abuse cases were handled back then and that so many reported cases went unpunished, going by Philips mothers , Philip was a quiet lad so there was no guarantee he might actually have said anything about paedophile activity that he knew off, his family said that there were no obvious and defninite changes in his behaviour, I think for him to be killed was just so extreme when most vicitims of child abuse are not killed/murdered

    It is a very odd case the more you look at it. What do we actually know?
    He came home from school for lunch.
    With his bag?
    He headed back to school.
    He has not been seen since.
    His bag minus a few books was found 6 days later (in the afternoon?) on a laneway nearby.


  • #777
    StephenHendry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭StephenHendry


    Fleawuss wrote: »
    It is a very odd case the more you look at it. What do we actually know?
    He came home from school for lunch.
    With his bag?
    He headed back to school.
    He has not been seen since.
    His bag minus a few books was found 6 days later (in the afternoon?) on a laneway nearby.

    I agree with you , a lot of this doesn't add, I think we can say that there was a paedophile ring of some sort, we don't know if Philip was or wasn't abused, take the case down in Waterford where a basketball coach was convicted of child abuse, there were groups of young people involved who were victims, if Philip abused then the likelihood that his friends would have been victims as well, its unlikely if his friends were abused that they would have stayed silent until now, most victims (not all )do come forward albeit after a long period of time to the gardai, the main reason was the fear of not being believed if it were say done a priest for e.g. this fear would have caused them not to tell their own parents, killing a child (even by paedophiles) or by anyone is extremely rare,

    cooke was a paedophile and may have operated along with others who were responsible for Philips disappearance, but with cooke dead I just hope they can find out and investigate the movements of those who may have been involved with cooke


  • #778
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    LorMal wrote: »
    You keep questioning the Gardas position on this. What do you think happened? Are you saying they are deliberately covering up for Cooke?

    Explain what "legally prevented them" from investigating Cooke in 2011 first maybe?


  • #779
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Going Forward wrote: »
    Explain what "legally prevented them" from investigating Cooke in 2011 first maybe?

    I don't want to argue with you. I just meant that the Garda may not have pursued it because, with no statement and in the absence of any evidence, pursuing a case would be very difficult. The witness may also have been unnamed and only communicating through a third party (as is the recent case) - therefore, holding little, if any, evidential substance

    What do you think? Do you suspect they are deliberately covering up for him?


  • #780
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    LorMal wrote: »
    I don't want to argue with you. I just meant that the Garda may not have pursued it because, with no statement and in the absence of any evidence, pursuing a case would be very difficult. The witness may also have been unnamed and only communicating through a third party (as is the recent case) - therefore, holding little, if any, evidential substance

    What do you think? Do you suspect they are deliberately covering up for him?

    I don't know.

    But it would not be the first time that they have not investigated a case for reasons known only to themselves.

    And their treatment of him was bizarre, as was to my mind, their reluctance to investigate him for any involvement in the Cairns case.

    He was effectively entertained as an unofficial member of the force, with his own blue light and call ID according to Gerry O' Carroll, retired detective, writing in the last week or so, even though he previously had been charged with attempting to murder 4 gardai.

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dublin-dj-gets-ten-years-for-horrendous-sexual-assaults-304432.html



    https://comeheretome.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/eamon-cooke-19-feb-1957.png

    And what if it transpires that the DNA test does show a link between the bag and Cooke?

    It may not happen of course.

    If it doesnt, the question will need to be asked did they do too little too late.
    They ARE investigating him now, when he's dead but wouldn't go near him about this case when he was alive.

    If it does show a link, the same question needs to be asked.

    Why, if he was named when he was alive, wasn't he investigated?

    Why make heartfelt appeals every year before Christmastime if information received is going to be dismissed?

    They were never going to receive the answers wrapped up and tied with a bow, some initiative was going to be required somewhere along the line.

    Unless as Jimmy Guerin suspects there was something worth covering up:

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/philip-cairns-was-killed-to-protect-his-sex-abuser-26245411.html

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/was-macarthur-about-to-reveal-child-sex-ring-26243678.html


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  • #781
    Kamili
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭Kamili


    I agree totally Going Forward, thats what I've been doubting all along. the whole thing makes absolutely no sense.

    Bear in mind too Jim Guerin had access to private investigators that looked into the case too.


This discussion has been closed.
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