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Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

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Comments

  • #8912
    rangler1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,497 ✭✭✭rangler1


    Farmer Ed wrote: »
    Well if it is all down to luck as you suggest then some may possibly be cursed or their certainly jinxed. If you are correct and it is all just luck. Maybe it's pointless paying big bucks to managers. Just fire the lot of them and replace them with people from job bridge,hang a horse shoe over the door and invest in a four leaf clover.

    You're wondering what whey is worth in one breath and then telling us that cheese is being given away......does it make any difference what the whey is worth if all cheese can't be sold.
    Moving the deckchairs around on the titanic comes to mind


  • #8913
    pedigree 6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    rangler1 wrote: »
    You're wondering what whey is worth in one breath and then telling us that cheese is being given away......does it make any difference what the whey is worth if all cheese can't be sold.
    Moving the deckchairs around on the titanic comes to mind

    Go on rangler admit it you'd love to milk a few cows.


  • #8914
    rangler1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,497 ✭✭✭rangler1


    pedigree 6 wrote: »
    Go on rangler admit it you'd love to milk a few cows.

    Jasus, what's ed at, depression in milk price across the world and he has to nitpick at the lads that are at the pitface trying to sell milk....it's not a closed shop anymore, can't he build a plant if he thinks its so easy.


  • #8915
    pedigree 6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    rangler1 wrote: »
    Jasus, what's ed at, depression in milk price across the world and he has to nitpick at the lads that are at the pitface trying to sell milk....it's not a closed shop anymore, can't he build a plant if he thinks its so easy.
    I'm not ed.


  • #8916
    darragh_haven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭darragh_haven


    pedigree 6 wrote: »
    I'm not ed.

    My name is Earl


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  • #8917
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    Dawggone wrote: »
    Seriously Ed, since when is milk powder a premium product?
    It's not fair to expect Irish processors to top the EU milk price league whilst manufacturing a bottom of the range commodity.
    Farmers in the Comté region are averaging over 40cpl for their milk...but their milk isn't being turned into powder and dumped into intervention.

    Just hasnt got to grips with the new reality yet, romantic views of what was promised fading away into the abyss of open markets...
    With feed wheat at about £102/ton now having doubled and halved from this twice in the last 10 years, with milling wheat having sold for over £200 ton 4 of the last 6 years if only for half a day esq volatility. Well come to the what you ve coveted for many years from your comfy protected markets, hope its as you predicted.


  • #8918
    pedigree 6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    darragh_haven wrote: »
    My name is Earl
    Oh god this is a long way off milk price.:D
    Nice distraction for a few minutes.


  • #8919
    rangler1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,497 ✭✭✭rangler1


    pedigree 6 wrote: »
    I'm not ed.

    Nor i didn't refer to you as ed
    I asked you what's ed at, how did you read anything else into that


  • #8920
    fepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭fepper


    The mountains are back again,butter,milk powder, cheese grain and probably wine lakes again


  • #8921
    keep going
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,551 ✭✭✭keep going


    Farmer Ed wrote: »
    Thanks for your honesty. With all due respects if your on the co op board maybe you should firmilarlise yourself with what whey is returning. I suspect you haven't been given a breakdown as to what each component of the litre of milk is returning yet management are excellent at calculating how much per litre "they" are supporting the price of milk or indeed they put a lot of time and money in to telling the farmer how cheaply he should be able to produce a litre milk. Yet they don't tell us how much they can make from that litre of milk.

    The reality is in real terms when account is taken of inflation we are only getting about a third of what we were paid for milk 27 years ago. This can't go on forever otherwise there may be a mass exodus
    with all due respect you know f all about what i know about the business only what i choose to post.


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  • #8922
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    fepper wrote: »
    The mountains are back again,butter,milk powder, cheese grain and probably wine lakes again
    But this time its not Eu doing it solo.


  • #8923
    darragh_haven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭darragh_haven


    pedigree 6 wrote: »
    Oh god this is a long way off milk price.:D
    Nice distraction for a few minutes.

    This thread is just too intense at the moment. Thought I'd throw in some light hearted fun


  • #8924
    rangler1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,497 ✭✭✭rangler1


    Farmer Ed wrote: »
    Thanks for your honesty. With all due respects if your on the co op board maybe you should firmilarlise yourself with what whey is returning. I suspect you haven't been given a breakdown as to what each component of the litre of milk is returning yet management are excellent at calculating how much per litre "they" are supporting the price of milk or indeed they put a lot of time and money in to telling the farmer how cheaply he should be able to produce a litre milk. Yet they don't tell us how much they can make from that litre of milk.

    The reality is in real terms when account is taken of inflation we are only getting about a third of what we were paid for milk 27 years ago. This can't go on forever otherwise there may be a mass exodus

    Using a comparison to to a protected market isn't relevant, a cow was milking the value of an acre of land every year then....product sounds a bit expensive, me thinks


  • #8925
    pedigree 6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    rangler1 wrote: »
    Nor i didn't refer to you as ed
    I asked you what's ed at, how did you read anything else into that
    How do I know what he's at?
    But I tell you this he's one of a few posters who makes you step back for a minute and question what senior management really are doing and are they doing all they can to pass as much value back into the farmers hands and can they do more.

    Perserva Ed.


  • #8926
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    pedigree 6 wrote: »
    How do I know what he's at?
    But I tell you this he's one of a few posters who makes you step back for a minute and question what senior management really are doing and are they doing all they can to pass as much value back into the farmers hands and can they do more.

    Perversa Ed.

    Its this attitude that has you in this mess! What do you expect them to do with so much excess milk no one clearly wants?


  • #8927
    pedigree 6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    Waffletraktor wrote: »
    Its this attitude that has you in this mess! What do you expect them to do with so much excess milk no one clearly wants?
    What did the French coops do when this started.
    They put as much product into intervention as they could early on and still the farmer price is not near intervention price still 30 cent. Their coops/government could absorb the price difference between inter and farmer price. By right they shouldn't have put any in till farmer price reached 24cent.

    I've no answers but there's a big difference between processors in this country let alone Europe.


  • #8928
    rangler1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,497 ✭✭✭rangler1


    pedigree 6 wrote: »
    What did the French coops do when this started.
    They put as much product into intervention as they could early on and still the farmer price is not near intervention price still 30 cent. Their coops/government could absorb the price difference between inter and farmer price. By right they shouldn't have put any in till farmer price reached 24cent.

    I've no answers but there's a big difference between processors in this country let alone Europe.

    probably depends on the markets they're going into and the product they sell.
    Have to admire the way that kerry, Glanbia, LG etc have progressed,


  • #8929
    blackdog1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,185 ✭✭✭blackdog1


    Dawggone wrote:
    Seriously Ed, since when is milk powder a premium product? It's not fair to expect Irish processors to top the EU milk price league whilst manufacturing a bottom of the range commodity. Farmers in the Comté region are averaging over 40cpl for their milk...but their milk isn't being turned into powder and dumped into intervention.

    53c a litre to be precise Dawg . I had students from that are and her uncle mad a good living of 30 cows. They have quotas, thus never overproduce comte cheese.


  • #8930
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,398 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Comte is one extreme, the NZ model is the other. Sadly, all the gurus in Ireland over the last 30 years choose the latter.
    The EU should have been our market. We should have made branded retail products for the market and built a reputation in that.

    Cheddar type cheese is almost a loss leader nowadays. Its the whey fraction that actually gives more profit.

    Mention of the lactose etc and farmer not being paid for it. That has a resonance of the 'ghost sugar' that Greencore would not pay for. Same story still.


  • #8931
    Farmer Ed
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Farmer Ed


    rangler1 wrote: »
    You're wondering what whey is worth in one breath and then telling us that cheese is being given away......does it make any difference what the whey is worth if all cheese can't be sold.
    Moving the deckchairs around on the titanic comes to mind

    As far as I am aware I have only heard of one co op who have allowed a large amount of product out of date. Having had a lot of dealing with them myself and the fact they are correctly paying the worst price in Europe. I can't say I'm surprised. To be fare I don't think you possibly had ever the honour of doing business with that co op and you obviously have no great love of dairy farmers in general so quite frankly Rangler you couldn't possibly have any idea what you are talking about on this particular issue.


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  • #8932
    rangler1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,497 ✭✭✭rangler1


    Farmer Ed wrote: »
    As far as I am aware I have only heard of one co op who have allowed a large amount of product out of date. Having had a lot of dealing with them myself and the fact they are correctly paying the worst price in Europe. I can't say I'm surprised. To be fare I don't think you possibly had ever the honour of doing business with that co op and you obviously have no great love of dairy farmers in general so quite frankly Rangler you couldn't possibly have any idea what you are talking about on this particular issue.

    are you saying that they let product go out of date without trying to under cut every other processor first, are buyers so honourable that they wouldn't buy it at 50% discount or was the cheese bad quality, everything should sell at a price


  • #8933
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,398 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Rangler, specialist product cannot be offloaded like that. Its wasn't a commodity.
    However, like all cheeses that are not grade 1 it could be reprocessed at a low value. That or worthless, with a cost of destroying it were the options.


  • #8934
    Farmer Ed
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Farmer Ed


    keep going wrote: »
    with all due respect you know f all about what i know about the business only what i choose to post.

    With all due respects you are on the board of a co op and I must admire your honesty in admiring that you don't see it as your business to know how much per litre all the components of a litre of milk is returning. Yet you are very quick to outline in great detail per litre as to how much the co op is supporting the price of milk. You are obviously very trusting of management if you are just taking their word for what is happening in the business. The question then is. What function exactly do you serve as a Bord member if you see your only role as bowing to the superior knowledge of managment?


  • #8935
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,398 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Well, speaking recently to a man who had served on the Board of one of the WC coops. He said you have to stand strong or they (management) would walk all over you.
    If that's how it is in West Cork, then most of the lads on other coop Boards are being ridden sideways.

    Very few, have the knowledge or skills to take on management of coops.
    That's the reality.


  • #8936
    Farmer Ed
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Farmer Ed


    blackdog1 wrote: »
    53c a litre to be precise Dawg . I had students from that are and her uncle mad a good living of 30 cows. They have quotas, thus never overproduce comte cheese.

    Dawg must be slipping. Last week he mentioned he did some business with Dairygold. I still can't figure that one out?
    I suppose the fact we have a French poster on here highlights how small the world is becoming. No reason why we shouldn't be chasing hi end European markets.

    I know I'm going to be very unpopular here for even suggesting this. But if you look at the stance we are taking on round up at the moment. No ok I know how great it is for weed control and I know production will be effective if it can't be used. But is that nessacerily a bad thing if we are ultimately over producing. In another life I come in contact with a lot of urban dwellers and a lot of them would be shocked at the idea of us using the likes of round up. At the end of the day they are our customers. I'm only using round up as an example, but do we ignore what they want and just chase the dream of producing as much as possible for as little as possible? Or do we go more down the road of the Comte producers? I'd much prefer if we modeled ourselves on the comte milk suppliers rather than on the fonterra suppliers. More is not always better.


  • #8937
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    Farmer Ed wrote: »
    Dawg must be slipping. Last week he mentioned he did some business with Dairygold. I still can't figure that one out?
    I suppose the fact we have a French poster on here highlights how small the world is becoming. No reason why we shouldn't be chasing hi end European markets.

    I know I'm going to be very unpopular here for even suggesting this. But if you look at the stance we are taking on round up at the moment. No ok I know how great it is for weed control and I know production will be effective if it can't be used. But is that nessacerily a bad thing if we are ultimately over producing. In another life I come in contact with a lot of urban dwellers and a lot of them would be shocked at the idea of us using the likes of round up. At the end of the day they are our customers. I'm only using round up as an example, but do we ignore what they want and just chase the dream of producing as much as possible for as little as possible? Or do we go more down the road of the Comte producers? I'd much prefer if we modeled ourselves on the comte milk supplier
    s rather than on the fonterra suppliers. More is not always better.
    Dawg was a customer back in day before get sense.
    If you believe anything wrong glyphosate to be the reason it is wanted to be banned you really are talking nonsense, there will be no drop in production just moving to acid burn down and more cultivations leading to more soil erosion.


  • #8938
    Farmer Ed
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Farmer Ed


    rangler1 wrote: »
    are you saying that they let product go out of date without trying to under cut every other processor first, are buyers so honourable that they wouldn't buy it at 50% discount or was the cheese bad quality, everything should sell at a price

    It was a specialist Norwegian cheese they obviously over produced it and had no market for it. End result it was given away. I suspect it went for processing before it went out of date. I suspect who ever got it made a nice killing out of it. I'm only speculating on that part of the story. The choice I'm told was to give it away before it went out of date or pay to dump it when it had gone out of date. I know nothing about the casein that is reportedly going out of date. But you are correct if they couldn't shift it at a large discount before they allowed it to go this far.
    Hard to believe management could make such a slip up. But if true I wouldn't be one bit surprised. Only answer is give them another bonus they obviously deserve it.


  • #8939
    Farmer Ed
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Farmer Ed


    Waffletraktor wrote: »
    Dawg was a customer back in day before get sense.
    If you believe anything wrong glyphosate to be the reason it is wanted to be banned you really are talking nonsense, there will be no drop in production just moving to acid burn down and more cultivations leading to more soil erosion.

    He mentioned another time about "his boss" in france and when questioned said he was referring to his father. I'm intrigued? Did two generations of the family move to France at the same time? I'm just being nosey.
    I never said there was anything wrong with roundup. But if the customer doesn't want it maybe we need to listen. What co op did I see wanting their farmers to only feed gm free feed? They wouldn't be doing it if they didn't see a marketing benefit. It is obviously going to increase their suppliers cost of production. But interesting how at least that co op is no longer just chasing cheap milk.
    Like it or not the customer is king, we need to supply them with what they want.


  • #8940
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    Farmer Ed wrote: »
    He mentioned another time about "his boss" in france and when questioned said he was referring to his father. I'm intrigued? Did two generations of the family move to France at the same time? I'm just being nosey.
    I never said there was anything wrong with roundup. But if the customer doesn't want it maybe we need to listen. What co op did I see wanting their farmers to only feed gm free feed? They wouldn't be doing it if they didn't see a marketing benefit. It is obviously going to increase their suppliers cost of production. But interesting how at least that co op is no longer just chasing cheap milk.
    Like it or not the customer is king, we need to supply them with what they want.
    Go ask him yourself.
    The majority customer wants cheap bulk food comes from TESCOS!, the rest is niche though if you get a winning product soon enough you get every other fool think if they produce the same they will make just as much. Until a time net profit is worth while for extra effort the majority of farms wont change, and then it just becomes the new norm soon enough. Any farm in western europe producing cheap bulk is in trouble regardless of current crisis.
    Do any irish processors have cash for brand developement rnd aquisition? Could that be Glanbias plan for this loans spare money? Doubt farmers would be keen to stump up more money for wild ventures, oh wait...


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  • #8941
    Farmer Ed
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Farmer Ed


    Waffletraktor wrote: »
    Go ask him yourself.
    The majority customer wants cheap bulk food comes from TESCOS!, the rest is niche though if you get a winning product soon enough you get every other fool think if they produce the same they will make just as much. Until a time net profit is worth while for extra effort the majority of farms wont change, and then it just becomes the new norm soon enough. Any farm in western europe producing cheap bulk is in trouble regardless of current crisis.
    Do any irish processors have cash for brand developement rnd aquisition? Could that be Glanbias plan for this loans spare money? Doubt farmers would be keen to stump up more money for wild ventures, oh wait...

    Good night it's way Past my bedtime I must be up in a few hours .


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