Mass shooting in Orlando Nightclub

RobertKK · 16-06-2016 05:06AM

Mateen also searched Facebook during the attack looking for 'Orlando Pulse shooting', he posted this on Facebook during the attack:
"America and Russia stop bombing the Islamic State, I pledge my alliance to Abi Bakr al Baghdadi.. may Allah accept me."
"The real Muslims will never accept the filthy ways of the west"
"You kill innocent women and children by doing US airstrikes..now taste the Islamic State vengeance"
"In the next few days you will see attacks from the Islamic State in the USA"

His wife said he wanted to carry out a Jihadi attack for years. She was with him when he bought the ammunition.
She is likely to be charged.

The father posted on Facebook that his son was a good boy - this after he murdered 49 people and injured 53 others, he also used a derogatory term for gay people, this was posted in Dari which he later deleted.

People who worked with Mateen said he was racist, anti-Semitic, homophobic and misogynistic.

16-06-2016 08:22AM

Manic Moran wrote: »

What sort of a bizarre statement is that? I'm at a loss to understand how one's sexual preference can possibly affect one's basic concepts such as "respect for human life" or "General life rule: don't commit mass murder".

However, ten minutes after I typed the above, since I was waiting for a train and being the thorough sort of person I am, and willing to be corrected by the facts, I thought I'd look it up. Which turns out to be a terrible thing to do on the phone because pretty much all the studies directly related which are online tend to be found on websites which are conservative/anti-gay, and I can't really distinguish between those sponsored by the sites, and those neutral ones merely trumpeted by the sites when they match their agenda. About the only thing I have been able to source from what appears to be a neutral source (Schlesinger, Louis B. 2000. Serial Offenders: Current Thought, Recent Findings) is that homosexuals are disproportionately more likely in the us to be serial killers (14% estimated, vs 4% of the population who self-identify as such). It is also observed, however, that a common trend with serial killers has been emotional and difficult youths, or troubled sexual history, which I'm to understand is not an unreasonable background to a young homosexual man trying to find his way in a somewhat hostile environment, which is not inconsistent with my original position that in itself sexuality should have no correlation with propensity to violence.

So, since the topic has been opened, and I'm off the train, I'm open to other people with more time that I have to dig deeper into this line of thought, if anyone thinks it relevant.

Ronnie Kray, jeffrey Dahmer....oh and buffalo bill from silence of the lambs!

It's been speculated that hitler could have been gay and eva braunn was more like a twisted mother figure.

cowboyBuilder · 16-06-2016 01:24PM

https://twitter.com/aliveness_ape/status/743180273865498625

stoplooklisten · 16-06-2016 01:29PM

What's the colours on the map thing, i can't figure it out

aloyisious · 16-06-2016 01:34PM

rusty cole wrote: »

Ronnie Kray, jeffrey Dahmer....oh and buffalo bill from silence of the lambs!
It's been speculated that hitler could have been gay and eva braunn was more like a twisted mother figure.

Going slightly off course using the Nazis as examples. Ernst Roehm, the head of the SA, the Nazis street-army, shot by SS while he was in bed with his SA boyfriend. ER wasn't slow on murdering people.

learn_more · 16-06-2016 01:36PM

Two days after the attack there was an interview either on CNN or Sky News with an older gay man who said that he seen Omar in the club regularly. That he would get drunk by himself, try to pick up men. Was seen putting his arm around men etc..

Can't imagine why this individual would go on a major news network and lie to the world if he hadn't seen what he reported.

wakka12 · 16-06-2016 01:47PM

learn_more wrote: »

Two days after the attack there was an interview either on CNN or Sky News with an older gay man who said that he seen Omar in the club regularly. That he would get drunk by himself, try to pick up men. Was seen putting his arm around men etc..

Can't imagine why this individual would go on a major news network and lie to the world if he hadn't seen what he reported.

I do believe this person's account but you'd be surprised the **** people would come out with for some attention.

RobertKK · 16-06-2016 02:20PM

Some people run to the media for attention, others run away from the media as the idea of being on TV or radio is like a phobia.

aloyisious · 16-06-2016 04:12PM

Saw this on F/B. covers a multiple of issues.

stoplooklisten · 16-06-2016 10:11PM

Omar Mateen went online and searched for the terms “Pulse Orlando” and “shooting”, according to a letter released by a Senate committee, even as his victims lay dead or dying in the gay nightclub.

The 29-year-old American Muslim also apparently posted

“America and Russia stop bombing the Islamic state..I pledge my alliance to [its leader] abu bakr al Baghdadi..may Allah accept me,” on one of at least five Facebook accounts thought to be associated with him.

“The real muslims will never accept the filthy ways of the west” and “You kill innocent women and children by doing us airstrikes..now taste the Islamic state vengeance.”

In a final message, Mateen apparently wrote: “In the next few days you will see attacks from the Islamic state in the usa.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/16/orlando-attack-facebook-post-pulse-nightclub-shooting

16-06-2016 11:13PM

rusty cole wrote: »

Ronnie Kray, jeffrey Dahmer....oh and buffalo bill from silence of the lambs!
It's been speculated that hitler could have been gay and eva braunn was more like a twisted mother figure.

Dean Corll.

Grayson · 16-06-2016 11:21PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Unlike the Democrats efforts to ban whatever firearms they can, reason and logic be-damned.

You actually think there's no reason behind wanting to stop people on a terror list from buying firearms?

learn_more · 16-06-2016 11:36PM

I was just wondering if he'll choose all male or all female virgins, or a mixture of the two.

Sand · 16-06-2016 11:46PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Mateen also searched Facebook during the attack looking for 'Orlando Pulse shooting', he posted this on Facebook during the attack:
"America and Russia stop bombing the Islamic State, I pledge my alliance to Abi Bakr al Baghdadi.. may Allah accept me."
"The real Muslims will never accept the filthy ways of the west"
"You kill innocent women and children by doing US airstrikes..now taste the Islamic State vengeance"
"In the next few days you will see attacks from the Islamic State in the USA"

His wife said he wanted to carry out a Jihadi attack for years. She was with him when he bought the ammunition.
She is likely to be charged.

The father posted on Facebook that his son was a good boy - this after he murdered 49 people and injured 53 others, he also used a derogatory term for gay people, this was posted in Dari which he later deleted.

People who worked with Mateen said he was racist, anti-Semitic, homophobic and misogynistic.

It does seem his motivation was wider than just homophobia (though that's clearly a factor). He seems to have a lot of hatreds, and his grudge seems to have been against the west generally - both the club and Disney world were soft targets which represented a western civilisation he despised and became alienated from, as expressed by his claims during the attack.

His father is a piece of work, doesn't say much for 'moderate' Islam.

AbusesToilets · 17-06-2016 03:53AM

Sand wrote: »

It does seem his motivation was wider than just homophobia (though that's clearly a factor). He seems to have a lot of hatreds, and his grudge seems to have been against the west generally - both the club and Disney world were soft targets which represented a western civilisation he despised and became alienated from, as expressed by his claims during the attack.

His father is a piece of work, doesn't say much for 'moderate' Islam.

If such a thing truly exists.

MadsL · 17-06-2016 07:09AM

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

https://twitter.com/aliveness_ape/status/743180273865498625

Dial it back to 1992 and there would be a little blob of red in Western Europe. Wonder which nation that would have been...??

stefanovich · 17-06-2016 07:19AM

MadsL wrote: »

Dial it back to 1992 and there would be a little blob of red in Western Europe. Wonder which nation that would have been...??

And your point is what exactly? I don't remember any gays being gunned down in Ireland in the 90s.

MadsL · 17-06-2016 07:33AM

stefanovich wrote: »

And your point is what exactly? I don't remember any gays being gunned down in Ireland in the 90s.

No, you have to go back to the 80s for that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significant_acts_of_violence_against_LGBT_people#Ireland

stefanovich · 17-06-2016 07:40AM

MadsL wrote: »

No, you have to go back to the 80s for that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significant_acts_of_violence_against_LGBT_people#Ireland

You are all kicking up dust and confusing things. My interpretation of your collective opinion is this:

"Ireland is a predominantly catholic country and we used to have some pretty discriminatory views on homosexuals, therefore it is only right to invite people with overtly discriminatory views on homosexuals into the country in the interest of fairness"

Did I get that right?

MadsL · 17-06-2016 07:54AM

stefanovich wrote: »

You are all kicking up dust and confusing things. My interpretation of your collective opinion is this:

"Ireland is a predominantly catholic country and we used to have some pretty discriminatory views on homosexuals, therefore it is only right to invite people with overtly discriminatory views on homosexuals into the country in the interest of fairness"

Did I get that right?

My point is simple, if you are pointing at a whole mass of people for discriminatory laws on homosexuals from the position of a member of a society that only legalised homosexuality less than three decades ago, then you are on pretty thin ice.

I'd prefer if you didn't put words in my mouth. So no you didn't get that right.

Do you think that every Irish person agreed with those laws in 1980? Do you think every person in the countries listed agrees with those laws?

EDIT: What would you think of a immigration law that prevents Irish nationals from emigrating to Sweden on the basis that abortion is illegal in Ireland?

MadsL · 17-06-2016 07:59AM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

If such a thing truly exists.

You haven't travelled much I take it.

stefanovich · 17-06-2016 08:21AM

MadsL wrote: »

My point is simple, if you are pointing at a whole mass of people for discriminatory laws on homosexuals from the position of a member of a society that only legalised homosexuality less than three decades ago, then you are on pretty thin ice.

I'd prefer if you didn't put words in my mouth. So no you didn't get that right.

Do you think that every Irish person agreed with those laws in 1980? Do you think every person in the countries listed agrees with those laws?

EDIT: What would you think of a immigration law that prevents Irish nationals from emigrating to Sweden on the basis that abortion is illegal in Ireland?

The mass of people you refer to are Muslims? Being a Muslim is a choice you know.

Being born on the island of Ireland is not.

MadsL · 17-06-2016 08:28AM

stefanovich wrote: »

The mass of people you refer to are Muslims? Being a Muslim is a choice you know.

Being born on the island of Ireland is not.

Disingenuous much? I think the modifier you are looking for is "practicing".
It's hard to unbecome a Catholic by the way, dunk in the font and they have you for life.

I'll rephrase my question if you really want to split hairs;
What would you think of a immigration law that prevents Irish Catholics from emigrating to Sweden on the basis that abortion is illegal in Ireland?

HamsterFace · 17-06-2016 08:33AM

MadsL wrote: »

My point is simple, if you are pointing at a whole mass of people for discriminatory laws on homosexuals from the position of a member of a society that only legalised homosexuality less than three decades ago, then you are on pretty thin ice.

I'd prefer if you didn't put words in my mouth. So no you didn't get that right.

Do you think that every Irish person agreed with those laws in 1980? Do you think every person in the countries listed agrees with those laws?

EDIT: What would you think of a immigration law that prevents Irish nationals from emigrating to Sweden on the basis that abortion is illegal in Ireland?

Its worth pointing out that the discriminatory laws in a lot (nearly all?) Islamic states is death so not as compatible to "illegal but we'll turn a blind eye to it lads".

And of course, not everyone from these states would support death but given the culture they are coming from, they are much more likely to hate homosexuality, probably because of repressed sexuality in a lot of cases.

I don't understand this right on attitude that the big evil is conservative middle class as opposed to this bare faced hate?

MadsL · 17-06-2016 08:43AM

HamsterFace wrote: »

Its worth pointing out that the discriminatory laws in a lot (nearly all?) Islamic states is death so not as compatible to "illegal but we'll turn a blind eye to it lads".

Did you even do a tiny bit of research in that? Only 7 countries have a death penalty for homosexual acts. Homosexuality is legal in 20 Islamic countries and Turkey legalised in 1858!! Way before most Western countries. Two predominantly Muslim countries have anti-discrimination laws.

Bannasidhe · 17-06-2016 09:00AM

MadsL wrote: »

Did you even do a tiny bit of research in that? Only 7 countries have a death penalty for homosexual acts. Homosexuality is legal in 20 Islamic countries and Turkey legalised in 1858!! Way before most Western countries. Two predominantly Muslim countries have anti-discrimination laws.

Let's not mention what was done to Alan Turing and countless other gay men in the U.S. and U.K.

HamsterFace · 17-06-2016 09:00AM

MadsL wrote: »

Did you even do a tiny bit of research in that? Only 7 countries have a death penalty for homosexual acts. Homosexuality is legal in 20 Islamic countries and Turkey legalised in 1858!! Way before most Western countries. Two predominantly Muslim countries have anti-discrimination laws.

Only 7? Well then...

stefanovich · 17-06-2016 09:03AM

MadsL wrote: »

Disingenuous much? I think the modifier you are looking for is "practicing".
It's hard to unbecome a Catholic by the way, dunk in the font and they have you for life.

I'll rephrase my question if you really want to split hairs;
What would you think of a immigration law that prevents Irish Catholics from emigrating to Sweden on the basis that abortion is illegal in Ireland?

Well if Sweden decided that supporting the right to abortion is part of their cultural identity then prevented any anti-abortion Catholics from emigrating is well within their rights.

Not sure what being Irish has to do with it.

Bannasidhe · 17-06-2016 09:07AM

stefanovich wrote: »

Well if Sweden decided that supporting the right to abortion is part of their cultural identity then prevented any abortion Catholics from emigrating is well within their rights.

Not sure what being Irish has to do with it.

Hold on.

Are you implying that equality for homosexuals is part of Irish culture?
Western culture?

I'm really confused as to what you are saying is part of whose 'cultural identity'...

stefanovich · 17-06-2016 09:10AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Hold on.

Are you implying that equality for homosexuals is part of Irish culture?
Western culture?

I'm really confused as to what you are saying is part of whose 'cultural identity'...

Not wanting them all dead is part of Irish culture I would hope.

Perhaps culture was the wrong word to use. What I am saying is that a country is well within its right to limit or restrict access to people whose beliefs are against what values they generally promote.

Mass shooting in Orlando Nightclub

Comments