2 year old taken by alligator at Disney Land resort Florida hotel

Samaris · 16-06-2016 12:04AM

sonofenoch wrote: »

Sure things happen, but surely you take into account the environment and factor it in unless you're stupid and I mean really stupid like a poster on here who thought Florida time runs concurrent with Irish time

You still sore that you were called on your truly disgusting post saying that the father cared more about his own skin than his child's and gave up so easily on finding him?

You poor cratur.

Also, where I went -wrong- was not taking into account the latitudinal correction, not that I thought that 9.30PM in Ireland was 9.30PM in Florida. C'mon now, if you're going to call me all sorts of idiot, at least get the error correct, will you? Isn't rocket science.

More importantly, I'm glad at least the poor kid's body was found. Awful thing to happen, but I see little point castigating the parents. There is nothing that can be said or done to make this any worse for them, and I really don't see why anyone would even try.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 16-06-2016 12:07AM

Horrible story, those poor parents will never recover from this. How could you.

Thankfully at least the body has been recovered.

Neyite · 16-06-2016 12:27AM

I'm glad his parents get to take him home. RIP to the little man.

It brought back memories of bringing my son to the beach when he was that age. Stubborn, beginning to learn independence, he'd protest if you tried to hold his hand or steer him somewhere less interesting than his curiosity was taking him. And he had a knack of finding the most dangerous things in the nano second you'd turn away. A death wish it seemed. Like all toddlers really.

We bring him to pet farms. Zoos. The bear caves in Ailwee. The beach. We'll bring him on holidays and let him paddle at the beach feet away from us. Because we want to give him the best childhood we can, let him explore under our supervision and let him learn things. I imagine that this family waited until the kids were old enough to remember Disney world and brought them to do the very same. To give them an awesome experience as a family that they would never forget. They would have assumed that if there was danger, there would be signs, right? Everyone was on the beach in the dark, waiting for an open air movie to start in a lovely hotel resort. An alligator might not have even occurred to them and if it did, you'd assume that the hotel wouldnt screen a movie on the beach if alligators were a potential problem. This is disneyland FFS.

And now, if they manage to ever, for a moment, forget their baby boy Lane, they'll be quickly and sharply reminded by a dvd in the supermarket, or a t-shirt in Walmart with a disney character. There's no escaping disney sh!t really, is there? There will be no escaping their memories of this. It puts me in mind of the recent Donegal slipway tragedy - just a family day out that ended in horror.

makingmecrazy · 16-06-2016 01:09AM

ScumLord wrote: »

Definitely should have. I would be shocked if this is the first issue Disney has ever had with alligators at this park. I'm sure they knew about the gators. I wonder did some middle management dislike signs that said "alligators" in their park in case pictures ended up on social media?

People should probably be made aware of the dangers coming into the state. Warning signs at airports, state lines, train stations. All it would have taken to save this boy's life would be a bit of awareness.

Tbf, I have been to Orlando a good few times over the years and there are various different warnings about the gators. First time I went almost 20 years ago we were on the coach transfer from the airport.
They had a lady tour guide type of thing talking on a mic at the top of the bus.
Being a bit of a nerd I knew quite a lot about gators anyway before going there but I can still remember as clear as a bell her saying to avoid ANY water. She said "When you are going into a store and there is a flood drain(its like a little, and I mean about 5 foot long, wooden bridge about 3 foot off the ground over a grassy area)don't let your kids run down and jump across it onto the other side(would be a 3 foot or so gap). The reason is that only yesterday we lost another child to a gator who was hiding in the drain. That's the second child this year to a gator in a drain"
I was shocked that they would be in such a tiny amount of water but they had gotten clever and hid under the walkways.
:eek:
I've also had hotel staff say "Don't go near the edge hunny, gators in there" at hotels where there were man made lakes/water features etc.

And one time saw one getting pulled away by a gator catcher at a one of the posher hotels!

.ak · 16-06-2016 01:23AM

Yeah I remember my first visit to Orlando, myself and a few lads, during one of the massive downpours we were making our way back to the hotel and we decided to take a short cut over one of those ditches that seperate the roads, but it had flooded. We all jumped over the water easily enough but one of the lads didn't make the jump, landed on the bank and slid in a bit, and with that about 10 feet away we saw a load of trashing in the water, and out popped this gator - it must've got startled and ran off in the opposite direction. As did we, ran like a bunch of girls back to the hotel without slowing down.

Ever since then I'm always suspicious of any tall grass or standing water in Florida.

Tipperary Fairy · 16-06-2016 02:23AM

HensVassal wrote: »

Well, there is an element of victim blaming here. If a parent and their child were walking through the grass in Dublin's Phoenix Park, people would think "Oh, how lovely"...that is if nothing happened. They'd see it as a normal and pleasant thing to do. If, however, the child was picking some flowers near a tree and got attacked by angry bees or wasps from a nest and died as a result of the stings they'd all be "what was the parent thinking bringing a toddler to a place where there is the potential for all kinds of dangers??"

It's a predicatable as the sun rise and it's quite nauseating.

It's again a ridiculous comparison. Walking through grass in Dublin is very very very different to getting into water in Florida where there's signs saying don't enter the water, in an area you should know has dangerous animals. You can't know if your child has an allergy to bee stings, but most parents would still be wary enough to try keep their child away from nests or hives.

It doesn't seem to click with some people that as a parent you are responsible for the life of your child. You are responsible. You. Why is no one willing to accept personal responsibility any more?

I don't see at all how Disney are responsible here. They put up signs saying don't get in the water, a death occurred because someone chose to ignore the sign. This is in no way their fault.

But it seems these threads are really just for people to come in and say 'OMG what a horrible thing, hope the parents will be ok, RIP little one', and anyone who says anything different is a monster. My first thought on this was how awful a thing to happen to the poor child. Just because I'm saying the parents are responsible for his wellbeing doesn't mean I have no sympathy. I just didn't come in gushing about it.

Manic Moran · 16-06-2016 02:58AM

They put up signs saying don't get in the water, a death occurred because someone chose to ignore the sign. This is in no way their fault.

In fairness, "No Swimming" =/= "No Wading". No swimming signs can be for anything down to liability reasons in case someone swimming gets stuck on a rock and drowns, or because Disney didn't have a life guard in a place which allows swimming, or because of water quality and so on and so forth. Has anyone said specifically that the 'no swimming' sign was due to a fear of alligators? If so, a "Gator Warning" sign probably would have been put up instead. But that wouldn't have helped had they decided to pull in at a roadside shallow on the way to Disney world.

This is just general bad luck all around.

Tipperary Fairy · 16-06-2016 03:11AM

Manic Moran wrote: »

In fairness, "No Swimming" =/= "No Wading". No swimming signs can be for anything down to liability reasons in case someone swimming gets stuck on a rock and drowns, or because Disney didn't have a life guard in a place which allows swimming, or because of water quality and so on and so forth. Has anyone said specifically that the 'no swimming' sign was due to a fear of alligators? If so, a "Gator Warning" sign probably would have been put up instead. But that wouldn't have helped had they decided to pull in at a roadside shallow on the way to Disney world.

This is just general bad luck all around.

Yeah and it'd still be the parents fault in that situation.

People just expect to be babied these days

Pac1Man · 16-06-2016 03:12AM

Not a fan of gutting alligators to find the boy's remains (I know he has since been found). Such pointless killing.

FizzleSticks · 16-06-2016 03:20AM

This post has been deleted.

Pac1Man · 16-06-2016 03:29AM

FizzleSticks wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yes I probably would, but then my opinion would be biased and therefore untrue. I just can't see how the senseless killing of multiple alligators to find remains would bring an element of peace to the parents.

Unfortunately if a child gets taken by an alligator, there is only one outcome. It's hardly Pinocchio getting swallowed by a whale.

sweetie · 16-06-2016 04:56AM

Currently holidaying in Orlando and we were due to stay in the Grand Floridian until changing plans last week. Nowhere have I seen or heard warnings about alligators, although I wouldn't be taking any chances. RIP the little boy.

CruelCoin · 16-06-2016 08:49AM

sonofenoch wrote: »

I'm sure it is.....but the kid was snatched in the rotten (your words) water, a 2 year old allowed out of sight enough near a body of water to be snatched

That's pretty irrelevent.

If you've spent more than 10 minutes watching nat geo, you'd know that you could be inches from one of these things and not see it.

I think the jokes are fair game in this forum though. Book of condolances is that way --->

CruelCoin · 16-06-2016 08:52AM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Has anyone said specifically that the 'no swimming' sign was due to a fear of alligators? If so, a "Gator Warning" sign probably would have been put up instead.

If they'd be made to put up a sign for every little reason why there was a risk for going into the water, you'd not be able to see the bloody lake behind the wall of signs.

It's not really fair to expect the hotel/resort to make a specific sign. That's just health and safety clipboarding at its finest.

Samaris · 16-06-2016 08:55AM

CruelCoin wrote: »

If they'd be made to put up a sign for every little reason why there was a risk for going into the water, you'd not be able to see the bloody lake behind the wall of signs.

It's not really fair to expect the hotel/resort to make a specific sign. That's just health and safety clipboarding at its finest.

Meeh, while I agree that one cannot warn of every potential danger, and I'd roll my eyes at a "warning, children may drown in this lagoon" sign sort of thing (because that's a universal danger), in a family resort with regular visitors from all over the world, warning of a danger specific to the area isn't unreasonable. It seems sensible to have a "Danger - Do Not Swim, Alligators present" or something. Or a picture of an alligator!

I'm not blaming the resort for not having it, mind you. But in light of what just happened, it would seem a sane follow-up.

Tipperary Fairy · 16-06-2016 08:59AM

Samaris wrote: »

Meeh, while I agree that one cannot warn of every potential danger, and I'd roll my eyes at a "warning, children may drown in this lagoon" sign sort of thing (because that's a universal danger), in a family resort with regular visitors from all over the world, warning of a danger specific to the area isn't unreasonable. It seems sensible to have a "Danger - Do Not Swim, Alligators present" or something. Or a picture of an alligator!

I'm not blaming the resort for not having it, mind you. But in light of what just happened, it would seem a sane follow-up.

It most likely will be a result of this, but I can't see how anyone could blame Disney. They did have a warning, and it was ignored for whatever reason.

Neyite · 16-06-2016 09:00AM

It's funny when people who don't have kids, who never have any intention of having them, but are so certain they know how to parent children far better than those who actually have them.

They should give parenting classes to the rest of us.

Tipperary Fairy · 16-06-2016 09:06AM

Neyite wrote: »

It's funny when people who don't have kids, who never have any intention of having them, but are so certain they know how to parent children far better than those who actually have them.

They should give parenting classes to the rest of us.

Not ignoring danger signs is hardly fcuking rocket science, and that kind of ability is not reserved for parents only.

What a boring and predictable argument.

Oafley Jones · 16-06-2016 09:20AM

Tipperary Fairy wrote: »

Not ignoring danger signs is hardly fcuking rocket science, and that kind of ability is not reserved for parents only.

What a boring and predictable argument.

Was the boy swimming? Because that's the warning. It doesn't say no wading/paddling/ no entry etc. Again, this is the first attack of it's kind in the resorts 45 year history. Water sports were carried out there for at least two decades. And its easy to be lulled into a false sense of security there. It's the beach area of Disney's premier hotel at the world most popular tourist destination. The area is used to host movies at night. Your statistically to be far more likely to be in danger from the spores there - which is why they've the warning in the first place.

I see Magic Kingdom's Jungle Cruise script has been altered this morning. The loading joke of "mind your children or the crocodiles will" has been edited out.

razorblunt · 16-06-2016 09:28AM

Samaris wrote: »

Meeh, while I agree that one cannot warn of every potential danger, and I'd roll my eyes at a "warning, children may drown in this lagoon" sign sort of thing (because that's a universal danger), in a family resort with regular visitors from all over the world, warning of a danger specific to the area isn't unreasonable. It seems sensible to have a "Danger - Do Not Swim, Alligators present" or something. Or a picture of an alligator!

I'm not blaming the resort for not having it, mind you. But in light of what just happened, it would seem a sane follow-up.

It's Florida, I'd check the bathtub before jumping in.

Akrasia · 16-06-2016 09:30AM

Tipperary Fairy wrote: »

It's again a ridiculous comparison. Walking through grass in Dublin is very very very different to getting into water in Florida where there's signs saying don't enter the water, in an area you should know has dangerous animals. You can't know if your child has an allergy to bee stings, but most parents would still be wary enough to try keep their child away from nests or hives.

It doesn't seem to click with some people that as a parent you are responsible for the life of your child. You are responsible. You. Why is no one willing to accept personal responsibility any more?

I don't see at all how Disney are responsible here. They put up signs saying don't get in the water, a death occurred because someone chose to ignore the sign. This is in no way their fault.

But it seems these threads are really just for people to come in and say 'OMG what a horrible thing, hope the parents will be ok, RIP little one', and anyone who says anything different is a monster. My first thought on this was how awful a thing to happen to the poor child. Just because I'm saying the parents are responsible for his wellbeing doesn't mean I have no sympathy. I just didn't come in gushing about it.

The parents and the child are the victims of a terrible tragedy that could have happened to anyone

Every single parent has had moments where their child slipped away from their attention momentarily or did something that the parent didn't realise was dangerous until afterwards...

Most parents get away with it and are glad to learn a lesson, sometimes a tragedy happens

Ireland doesn't have many dangerous wild animals that can harm children, but there are Portuguese man o'War jellyfish off our coast with a sting powerful enough to kill a human. And there is a chance that one could wash up on the shore of a beach. If I bring my kid to a beach and let her paddle in the shallow water, Am I an irresponsible parent because there is a 1 in a million chance that she could encounter one of these animals?

There are also freak waves, or the risk of falling and banging your head at the beach. I bring my kids to rock pools to look for crabs and shrimps and things. I watch them as best I can, but there is always a small risk that my child could trip over a rock and bang her head.

Drowning is a major cause of death in Ireland. Is every parent of a drowned child automatically negligent because 'they should have been more responsible?'

A lot of accidents happen while people are taking reasonable precautions. Nothing is completely safe and risk is a part of life. We should not castigate theseparents who are grieving for their child. It is utterly crass and inappropriate. I hope you wouldn't do it to their face if you met them, I hope you wouldn't turn up at the funeral of their child to berate them and tell them the death was their own fault.....

Neyite · 16-06-2016 09:30AM

Tipperary Fairy wrote: »

Not ignoring danger signs is hardly fcuking rocket science, and that kind of ability is not reserved for parents only.

What a boring and predictable argument.

Where were the signs? There were none on the resort - except no swimming. Nothing whatsoever about alligators. The kid was not swimming. He had his feet in the water but could just as easily have been standing beside the water when he was snatched because alligators are pretty fast on beaches too.

So why were the hotel staff herding families onto a beach, in the dark, to watch a movie if the place was crawling with predators? Because it wasn't deemed unsafe by the very people who worked in that resort and who live in that area.

But you expect parents from Nebraska to have some more knowledge about a species native to Florida than the very folk who live and work around these resorts because they have a kid. Now that's the kind of thinking that is stupid.

Parenting means you have a kid. It does not mean that you automatically become David Fcuking Attenbourgh.

They.were.in.Disneyfcuking.world. The only alligators I associated with Disney was in Peter Pan or the like. And for Disney not to have a single sign up in any of their resorts warning about alligators for the people visiting from all over the world, when there are alligators in the resorts is pretty short sighted of them, and cost this family something that can never be replaced.

But go ahead and pile the blame for this on the parents. :rolleyes:

failinis · 16-06-2016 09:31AM

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Was the boy swimming? Because that's the warning. It doesn't say no wading/paddling/ no entry etc.

"No swimming" signs could mean a wide variety of things yes, be it alligators, poisonous algae, no on duty life guards,danger of being hit by boats, or very simply, danger of drowning.

That should be warning enough, as a vague sign which could mean many number of things, to stay away from the water, be it swimming, paddling or wading.

I remember seeing on google images someone posted earlier that people can get boat trips and such on the lagoon, so it is used as a working body of water, but no swimming at all.

Even if the child was accompanied into the water its clearly a risk.
Most of the reports I seen over the past few days state the father was very close to the son when he was snapped up. Even if the father was holding the sons hand I doubt it would have helped anything.
What I mean by this, is that the parents wrongly ignore the sign, but it seems the father was staying close to his child, its not like he left it alone.
It's a tragic accident.

These parents have learnt a hard lesson that they will have to live with for as long as they live.

Degag · 16-06-2016 09:33AM

CruelCoin wrote: »

If they'd be made to put up a sign for every little reason why there was a risk for going into the water, you'd not be able to see the bloody lake behind the wall of signs.

It's not really fair to expect the hotel/resort to make a specific sign. That's just health and safety clipboarding at its finest.

While I agree with you in theory; i think that in this case having a sign warning that one of the most dangerous animals in the world inhabits the water may not be going overboard in the bureaucracy stakes!

Oafley Jones · 16-06-2016 09:42AM

failinis wrote: »

"No swimming" signs could mean a wide variety of things yes, be it alligators, poisonous algae, no on duty life guards,danger of being hit by boats, or very simply, danger of drowning.

That should be warning enough, as a vague sign which could mean many number of things, to stay away from the water, be it swimming, paddling or wading.

It's specifically says "No swimming". Its not vague in the slightest. You interpreted as the above, but that doesn't discount people will read it as literally no swimming. An all encompassing sign would have been something like "No entry to Water"

gctest50 · 16-06-2016 09:53AM

Neyite wrote: »

..............
They.were.in.Disneyfcuking.world. The only alligators I associated with Disney was in Peter Pan or the like...........

They were in fcuking.Florida, home to 1.3 million alligators

failinis · 16-06-2016 09:56AM

Oafley Jones wrote: »

It's specifically says "No swimming". Its not vague in the slightest. You interpreted as the above, but that doesn't discount people will read it as literally no swimming. An all encompassing sign would have been something like "No entry to Water"

No swimming means no entry to the water, which could be caused by any of the above reasons. A action and reason are different.

sonofenoch · 16-06-2016 09:59AM

Tipperary Fairy wrote: »

It's again a ridiculous comparison. Walking through grass in Dublin is very very very different to getting into water in Florida where there's signs saying don't enter the water, in an area you should know has dangerous animals. You can't know if your child has an allergy to bee stings, but most parents would still be wary enough to try keep their child away from nests or hives.

It doesn't seem to click with some people that as a parent you are responsible for the life of your child. You are responsible. You. Why is no one willing to accept personal responsibility any more?

I don't see at all how Disney are responsible here. They put up signs saying don't get in the water, a death occurred because someone chose to ignore the sign. This is in no way their fault.

But it seems these threads are really just for people to come in and say 'OMG what a horrible thing, hope the parents will be ok, RIP little one', and anyone who says anything different is a monster. My first thought on this was how awful a thing to happen to the poor child. Just because I'm saying the parents are responsible for his wellbeing doesn't mean I have no sympathy. I just didn't come in gushing about it.

That's it they failed at the most important role they'll ever have in protecting that kid, they failed ......I hope monetary compensation is not sought, if it is they'll have lower morals than that aligator

Oafley Jones · 16-06-2016 10:02AM

failinis wrote: »

No swimming means no entry to the water, which could be caused by any of the above reasons. A action and reason are different.

Says who? Again, you yourself said it "could" be read one way, but the case in point shows that is far from definite and open to interpretation.

Roesy · 16-06-2016 10:03AM

I have 2 kids and my eldest(2 and half) already has big plans to go to Disney so I can imagine the excitement levels of that little boy. I have been there before myself several times and iirc the 'no swimming' signs are present but not very in your face. I would have always assumed that that meant keep out of the water but as previous posters have said, it doesn't specifically say it so I can't blame anyone for taking the signs literally. The water itself isn't very appealing so paddling wouldn't have occurred to me. Saying that, I've been on the waterways there in a little motor powered boat(and broken down) and oddly the potential for alligators to be lurking didn't occur to me while I was sitting out there waiting to be towed in. I cannot imagine what these poor parents are going through. As for the killing of alligators to find the remains, how could you argue with them doing that. It was most unlikely that boy was going to be found alive but anyone would want a body to bury and in fairness the reports talk about 4 or 5 creatures, not 400.

2 year old taken by alligator at Disney Land resort Florida hotel

Comments