Mass shooting in Orlando Nightclub

15-06-2016 04:40PM

wakka12 wrote: »

Yet he said he was heterosexual. I know its a stereoptype but really I don't know a lot of men who care a lot about their appearance and take lots of selfies that arent gay, obvioussly there are some. But really if somebody shows stereptypically homosexual traits they are very likely to be gay, from my experience. To the point that Ive met and got with several gay guys from public settings going off subtle little stereotypes

was it the larry grayson walk or my frankie howard laugh that gave me away?:D

Ozymandius2011 · 15-06-2016 04:58PM

Lets suppose he was gay or bisexual. That doesn't explain the mass shooting. Homophobia can also be internalised particularly for a gay who is an Islamic fundamentalist.

stoplooklisten · 15-06-2016 05:50PM

It now appears that Mateen made at least one other phone call that night – to a local news station.

News producer Matt Gentili of News 13 said that he received a call from a man claiming to be Mateen about 45 minutes into the shooting.

"I answered the phone as I always do: 'News 13, this is Matt,'" Gentili said Tuesday. "And on the other end, I heard, 'Do you know about the shooting?'"

"Yes, I'm getting calls. I am hearing reports of a shooting," he said, and the voice on the other end replied: "I'm the shooter. It's me. I am the shooter."

The man went on to say he carried out the shooting for the Islamic State group and then starting speaking quickly in Arabic. When Gentili asked where he was, the man said it was none of Gentili's business.

Gentili asked if there was anything else the man would like to say. He replied "no" and hung up.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-06-15/orlando-shooter-called-local-tv-station-while-attacking-nightclub

Jack Killian · 15-06-2016 05:57PM

stoplooklisten wrote: »

It now appears that Mateen made at least one other phone call that night – to a local news station.

News producer Matt Gentili of News 13 said that he received a call from a man claiming to be Mateen about 45 minutes into the shooting.

"I answered the phone as I always do: 'News 13, this is Matt,'" Gentili said Tuesday. "And on the other end, I heard, 'Do you know about the shooting?'"

"Yes, I'm getting calls. I am hearing reports of a shooting," he said, and the voice on the other end replied: "I'm the shooter. It's me. I am the shooter."

The man went on to say he carried out the shooting for the Islamic State group and then starting speaking quickly in Arabic. When Gentili asked where he was, the man said it was none of Gentili's business.

Gentili asked if there was anything else the man would like to say. He replied "no" and hung up.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-06-15/orlando-shooter-called-local-tv-station-while-attacking-nightclub

Would someone in a local news studio know what Arabic sounded like ?

stoplooklisten · 15-06-2016 05:58PM

Jack Killian wrote: »

Would someone in a local news studio know what Arabic sounded like ?

Maybe he was arabic too? or knows the koran?

unseenfootage · 15-06-2016 06:08PM

stoplooklisten wrote: »

Maybe he was arabic too? or knows the koran?

If he was an Afghan American how could he be Arabic?

He probably quoted a verse from the Koran.

aloyisious · 15-06-2016 06:25PM

Matthew Gentili interview piece. The refusal by the caller to say where he was when asked sound's unusual but he (if he was Mateen) may have thought it was specific to which part of the club he was speaking from. Caller: hallo, I'm the shooter [at the gay night club], MG; [where are you] Caller; none of your (expletive) business. The full interview of Matt on the link below is available on the Red-letter sentence partway down.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjOpNHjwqrNAhXkJMAKHWDaDT8QqQIIHjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mynews13.com%2Fcontent%2Fnews%2Fcfnews13%2Fnews%2Farticle.html%2Fcontent%2Fnews%2Farticles%2Fcfn%2F2016%2F6%2F14%2Forlando_shooting_oma.html&usg=AFQjCNEZNycjIglvcslYfpQF5XH7xAliow

Renegade Mechanic · 15-06-2016 06:54PM

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

Lets suppose he was gay or bisexual. That doesn't explain the mass shooting. Homophobia can also be internalised particularly for a gay who is an Islamic fundamentalist.

I'm not entirely sure a gay person would be able to do this, regardless of how self hating.
And I find increasing "reports" that he was in fact gay somewhat suspicious. It smacks of diversion tbh.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2016/06/14/what-jackd/85862874/

Little CuChulainn · 15-06-2016 06:55PM

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure a gay person would be able to do this,/

Does being gay prevent you from being violent?

Renegade Mechanic · 15-06-2016 06:58PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Does being gay prevent you from being violent?

I think this transcends typical domestic disputes/abuse.

unseenfootage · 15-06-2016 06:58PM

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure a gay person would be able to do this, regardless of how self hating.
And I find increasing "reports" that he was in fact gay somewhat suspicious. It smacks of diversion tbh.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2016/06/14/what-jackd/85862874/

I think they do it with many of these jihadi terrorists.
911 bombers spent lots of times in pubs and were womanizers.
Bin Laden had a porn stash.
Awlaki frequented prostitutes.
French attackers visited gay bars....
...

You've got to wonder.

unseenfootage · 15-06-2016 07:00PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Does being gay prevent you from being violent?

Not at all. On the contrary homosexuality is practiced openly in the US armed forces.

Jimmy Garlic · 15-06-2016 07:13PM

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure a gay person would be able to do this, regardless of how self hating.

Obviously to do such a thing someone would either have to be psychotic or psychopathic. Can gay people not be psychotic or psychopathic?

scream · 15-06-2016 07:15PM

unseenfootage wrote: »

If he was an Afghan American how could he be Arabic?

He probably quoted a verse from the Koran.

Ask Ibrahim Halawa, Irish when it suits him but describes himself as an Egyptian who lives in Ireland. The guy got arrested rallying for the Muslim Brotherhood, but wants to portray himself as having got caught up in something while out buying ice cream.:D The guys parents would be fluent in Arabic, just like many parents from non English speaking countries teach their children born in Ireland to speak that language as well as English.

wakka12 · 15-06-2016 07:23PM

scream wrote: »

Ask Ibrahim Halawa, Irish when it suits him but describes himself as an Egyptian who lives in Ireland. The guy got arrested rallying for the Muslim Brotherhood, but wants to portray himself as having got caught up in something while out buying ice cream.:D The guys parents would be fluent in Arabic, just like many parents from non English speaking countries teach their children born in Ireland to speak that language as well as English.

I think he means that afghani people never identify as arabic as they are not arabic and nobody speaks arabic in afghanistan. Most people speak pashto and dari

Renegade Mechanic · 15-06-2016 07:34PM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Obviously to do such a thing someone would either have to be psychotic or psychopathic. Can gay people not be psychotic or psychopathic?

I'm not saying it's because they're "weak" or "girly" or anything like that. It's just that gay people tend to be more refined or less... "aggressive". Perfectly capable of standing ground, fighting or general violence but on this level? Being gay doesn't lend itself anything as easily to this kind of evil as other mindsets would. Now there are exceptions to any rule, but the cynical part of me feels like this is new tangent is going to arrive at a point where they say "homophobia from Americans caused this, not a deep seated belief that homosexuality is wrong. Straight men are to blame."

Call me paranoid, but I watched smaller (but no less potent) media outlets openly accuse German men of simply being jealous they couldn't get away with molesting and assaulting women like their foreign counterparts could, as way of explaining the outrage after the Cologne incident...

unseenfootage wrote: »

Not at all. On the contrary homosexuality is practiced openly in the US armed forces.

I wish I didn't laugh at that..

unseenfootage · 15-06-2016 08:19PM

scream wrote: »

Ask Ibrahim Halawa, Irish when it suits him but describes himself as an Egyptian who lives in Ireland. The guy got arrested rallying for the Muslim Brotherhood, but wants to portray himself as having got caught up in something while out buying ice cream.:D The guys parents would be fluent in Arabic, just like many parents from non English speaking countries teach their children born in Ireland to speak that language as well as English.

Don't talk crap to me mate.
If you expected me to laugh with you over the fate of an Irish citizen who was a teenager when he was arrested and who is being tortured in an Egyptian Dungeon then you way off the mark.

unseenfootage · 15-06-2016 08:25PM

wakka12 wrote: »

I think he means that afghani people never identify as arabic as they are not arabic and nobody speaks arabic in afghanistan. Most people speak pashto and dari

Why would an Afghan identify themselves as an Arab?
I am sure that there are many Afghans who do actually speak arabic as a second language. Many have worked in the gulf states. There were also thousands of arabs who lived in Afghanistan.

The point though, is that Omar was born in USA from Afghan immigrant parents. He was not an Arab.

markupmales · 15-06-2016 08:28PM

unseenfootage wrote: »

It was the spokesperson who made the statement to the press.
I'd imagine that the owner would've consulted all the staff, doormen, receptionists, cloakroom attendants, DJs, Bar staff etc. Probably more than 20 staff in total.

Could they all be wrong?

Nothing like a good imagination as a reputable source for your assertions.
Got anything more?

aloyisious · 15-06-2016 08:29PM

Snickers Man wrote: »

Oh FFS. Nobody was decrying his feelings. And it's a bit ironic to criticise Sky for having a gay man on to comment on the matter when one of the complaints he was making was that there were NOT many GLBT commentators on the telly.

At the time this program was made it was NOT clear what the gunman's motivations were. (in fact it still isn't) Yes his victims were mainly gay; yes his father had said gay activities repulsed him.

But there had also been reports about a web posting claiming loyalty to ISIS and Jones HIMSELF made reference to allegations of wife-beating by the suspect. Which is hardly a homophobic act. What was Jones' point? Only gay people can point out other undesirable traits in their assailant?

Jones is supposed to be a journalist. He's supposed to be articulate by profession. He is entitled to express his views and to be given fair opportunity to do so. Ironically he flounced off just as the anchor was teeing him up for a gimme opportunity to express his views in response to a quote from a gay advocacy group.

Real hacks don't flounce. Especially when they've just been given the floor.

It's probably my bias, as a gay man, that makes me see things differently to you about Owen's reaction to the questions put to him. I'd like to see the whole of the show when the three of them are together debating what was in the papers and him walking off it.

BTW, your "Real hacks don't flounce. Especially when they've just been given the floor" made me laugh, not roll my eyes.

markupmales · 15-06-2016 08:40PM

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

It's just that gay people tend to be more refined or less... "aggressive". Perfectly capable of standing ground, fighting or general violence but on this level?

Hmm, again I wonder what would happen here if I listed ways heterosexuals are "better" than homosexuals? Everybody would love that, right?

Call Me Jimmy · 15-06-2016 08:42PM

Actually on a tangent, women don't seem to commit these types of crimes at a similar level? San Bernardinho yes but with a male accomplice.

Renegade Mechanic · 15-06-2016 08:44PM

markupmales wrote: »

Hmm, again I wonder what would happen here if I listed ways heterosexuals are "better" than homosexuals? Everybody would love that, right?

Oh, Jeeeeeesus...

Grayson · 15-06-2016 08:45PM

markupmales wrote: »

Hmm, again I wonder what would happen here if I listed ways heterosexuals are "better" than homosexuals? Everybody would love that, right?

1) better at having sex with women.

Ways homosexuals are better

1) better at having sex with men.
2) dancing.

There ya go. It wasn't a hard list.

Grayson · 15-06-2016 08:46PM

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Actually on a tangent, women don't seem to commit these types of crimes at a similar level? San Bernardinho yes but with a male accomplice.

She didn't actually commit the shooting either. She joined him when they were on the run.

stoplooklisten · 15-06-2016 08:49PM

the woman drove the car on scouting missions.

Was he not able to drive himself?

unseenfootage · 15-06-2016 08:49PM

markupmales wrote: »

Nothing like a good imagination as a reputable source for your assertions.
Got anything more?

You're being pedantic.

How reputable are all those sources that claimed that he was a regular there?
One of the gay apps refuted that he was a member.
So much for your reputable sources.

markupmales · 15-06-2016 08:54PM

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Oh, Jeeeeeesus...

Couldn't form a cogent argument then? Why don't you just say "I am incapable of answering." and leave poor old Jesus out of this?

aloyisious · 15-06-2016 09:00PM

The source of this printed report is an LGBT publication but the words are those of a Texan Republican Congressman. He think's the club was NOT a gay venue, just “It was a young person’s nightclub, I’m told. And there were some [LGBT people] there, but it was mostly Latinos.”. I suppose that he think's that as the targets were apparently young Latinos, the gay victims are just collateral damage.

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2016/06/congressman-anti-gay-says-pulse-wasnt-gay-nightclub/

markupmales · 15-06-2016 09:01PM

unseenfootage wrote: »

You're being pedantic.

How reputable are all those sources that claimed that he was a regular there?
One of the gay apps refuted that he was a member.
So much for your reputable sources.

How many sources would you like?
"was mateen gay" gets 4 million matches. The Guardian. The Telegraph. The Independent. Take your pick really.
When do we graduate from "unreliable" to "conspiracy" on this I wonder or are we already there?

Mass shooting in Orlando Nightclub

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