Mass shooting in Orlando Nightclub

12Phase · 15-06-2016 12:24PM

unseenfootage wrote: »

The Guardian reports that the club owners are stating that he was not a patron at the club.

Interesting...

Seems like there's a lot of unconfirmed waffle floating around the media from random people.

Little CuChulainn · 15-06-2016 12:40PM

12Phase wrote: »

Interesting...

Seems like there's a lot of unconfirmed waffle floating around the media from random people.

I'd be more inclined to believe someone who said they saw him there. I doubt the owner knows every patron that has attended the club.

RobertKK · 15-06-2016 12:43PM

We are all at war with a most dangerous and horrific death club whose ideology has no place in this world.
The US which probably use to see itself as fairly safe from having radical Islamic extremist terrorist attacks, now had two in less than a year despite their distance from the main source of the problem.
People born from an ethnicity that originates from a trouble spot/extreme Islamic views and who may be citizens of a western nation are showing how they are open to radicalisation.
The Internet is something that was not available me in the past, communications were not so advanced like now. It is easier than ever to spread hate, death and destruction.
Europe is facing a most terrifying crisis. The Turkey/Syria border has been as porous as a sieve. We will have regular terrorist attacks, it is a most awful future ahead in Europe in terms of attacks, events like the Orlando massacre will happen in Europe, gay nightclubs or bars will be attacked, the general population will be attacked, churches and synagogues are targets, cafes m, restaurants, anywhere people congregate and sport events.

People like Omar Mateen are a drop in the ocean. We are all at war with these people who want to destroy what are our freedoms which we use to take for granted.

conorhal · 15-06-2016 12:43PM

12Phase wrote: »

Interesting...

Seems like there's a lot of unconfirmed waffle floating around the media from random people.

Well that's the nature of the 24 hour news cycle and the near total collapse of editorial rigour in the media these days as the press clamour for a 'scoop', any ol rubbish gets reported to fill time, so you can generally discount most of the 'facts' the media reports as pure speculation, for at least 48 hours, after an incident like this occurs.

Snickers Man · 15-06-2016 12:45PM

aloyisious wrote: »

The re-hashing of that can be responded to by asking why he was asked, as a gay man, to come on the show and expected to be unemotional about the murder of dozens of fellow gay men a few hours earlier merely because they were gay that the other two could discuss at a detached level because they are straight and able to put detachment into their analysis of the story.

Along with the anger he would have felt at the actual murders, they go on and compound it by their comments about it (edit/inclusion - and the attempt at mass murder in the gay pub bombing on Old Comptom St in London's Soho gay scene area) and then follow it up about "his unprofessional behaviour" when he finally lost it, tore a strip from them for their supercilious behaviour and walked off the show.

Context is what it was all about and the other two just didn't get it, he felt the murders at a level they could NOT, the mass murder of members of his community.

Oh FFS. Nobody was decrying his feelings. And it's a bit ironic to criticise Sky for having a gay man on to comment on the matter when one of the complaints he was making was that there were NOT many GLBT commentators on the telly.

At the time this program was made it was NOT clear what the gunman's motivations were. (in fact it still isn't) Yes his victims were mainly gay; yes his father had said gay activities repulsed him.

But there had also been reports about a web posting claiming loyalty to ISIS and Jones HIMSELF made reference to allegations of wife-beating by the suspect. Which is hardly a homophobic act. What was Jones' point? Only gay people can point out other undesirable traits in their assailant?

Jones is supposed to be a journalist. He's supposed to be articulate by profession. He is entitled to express his views and to be given fair opportunity to do so. Ironically he flounced off just as the anchor was teeing him up for a gimme opportunity to express his views in response to a quote from a gay advocacy group.

Real hacks don't flounce. Especially when they've just been given the floor.

Renegade Mechanic · 15-06-2016 12:51PM

aloyisious wrote: »

The re-hashing of that can be responded to by asking why he was asked, as a gay man, to come on the show and expected to be unemotional about the murder of dozens of fellow gay men a few hours earlier merely because they were gay that the other two could discuss at a detached level because they are straight and able to put detachment into their analysis of the story.

Along with the anger he would have felt at the actual murders, they go on and compound it by their comments about it (edit/inclusion - and the attempt at mass murder in the gay pub bombing on Old Comptom St in London's Soho gay scene area) and then follow it up about "his unprofessional behaviour" when he finally lost it, tore a strip from them for their supercilious behaviour and walked off the show.

Context is what it was all about and the other two just didn't get it, he felt the murders at a level they could NOT, the mass murder of members of his community.

Do you reckon French people went about telling Non-Frenchies that they didn't "get it" because they weren't French?

Did artists/writers tell non artists/writers that they didn't "get it" because they weren't drawing "offensive" cartoons?

It's borderline childish, tbh. I'm sure there were non-LGBT people killed in there too, as they partied with them.

People have and will be targeted for different things. You may well see an attack killing Shannon workers for Shannon's part in allowing American aircraft to land and refuel.

dav3 · 15-06-2016 12:52PM

RobertKK wrote: »

We are all at war with a most dangerous and horrific death club whose ideology has no place in this world.
The US which probably use to see itself as fairly safe from having radical Islamic extremist terrorist attacks, now had two in less than a year despite their distance from the main source of the problem.
People born from an ethnicity that originates from a trouble spot/extreme Islamic views and who may be citizens of a western nation are showing how they are open to radicalisation.
The Internet is something that was not available me in the past, communications were not so advanced like now. It is easier than ever to spread hate, death and destruction.
Europe is facing a most terrifying crisis. The Turkey/Syria border has been as porous as a sieve. We will have regular terrorist attacks, it is a most awful future ahead in Europe in terms of attacks, events like the Orlando massacre will happen in Europe, gay nightclubs or bars will be attacked, the general population will be attacked, churches and synagogues are targets, cafes m, restaurants, anywhere people congregate and sport events.

People like Omar Mateen are a drop in the ocean. We are all at war with these people who want to destroy what are our freedoms which we use to take for granted.

Are you still using this tragedy to score cheap points on the internet?

How long will you be able to keep this faux outrage up?

You're right though, the killer is only a drop in the ocean. A drop in the ocean when it comes to mass shootings in America.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/oct/02/mass-shootings-america-gun-violence

Sunday’s attack on the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, Florida was the deadliest mass shooting in American history – but there were five other mass shootings in the US during that weekend alone.

unseenfootage · 15-06-2016 12:54PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I'd be more inclined to believe someone who said they saw him there. I doubt the owner knows every patron that has attended the club.

It was the spokesperson who made the statement to the press.
I'd imagine that the owner would've consulted all the staff, doormen, receptionists, cloakroom attendants, DJs, Bar staff etc. Probably more than 20 staff in total.

Could they all be wrong?

RobertKK · 15-06-2016 01:05PM

dav3 wrote: »

Are you still using this tragedy to score cheap points on the internet?

How long will you be able to keep this faux outrage up?

You're right though, the killer is only a drop in the ocean. A drop in the ocean when it comes to mass shootings in America.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/oct/02/mass-shootings-america-gun-violence

I am not looking for any cheap points at anything. I was just posting what I believe. It was not directed at anyone.

Maybe I want to be able to travel in Europe and the US and not have to think of terrorism.
I was over in the US in September 2001, in NY 13 days after the attack, I saw the destruction with my own eyes, smelled the burning steel and concrete, saw the dust still on some cars blocks away from ground zero.
I felt a certain fear as I went in the Lincoln tunnel as there was a concern it could be attacked.
I attended the first major sports event in the US after 911, the F1 race in Indianapolis, which had fighter jets on standby to protect the 175,000 people who had attended it.
Do you know what else that played on my mind, the week before the 911 attack I was planning what to do and see in NY, one of the things was to go to the top of the WTC, watching people jump to their deaths on 911 had me wondering: what if the attack had happened when I had been there on holiday and I had been trapped, would I have jumped or what would I have done.
We can all think something like that could never happen to me. Nobody thinks it is going to be them affected by a terrorist attack, but it is ordinary lives, the lives of people who never think it could be them that are the targets.
You may see it as faux outrage, fine but I know myself how I feel, you don't.

stoplooklisten · 15-06-2016 01:06PM

The ex-wife says this:

“There were things he would do in his daily life that most straight men don’t do,” she said in a phone interview with TIME on Tuesday.

“He would take a long time in front of the mirror, he would often take pictures of himself, and he made little movements with his body that definitely made me question things,” she recalled, “It definitely popped up in my head whether he was totally straight.”

http://time.com/4369577/orlando-shooting-sitora-yusufiy-omar-mateen-gay/

unseenfootage · 15-06-2016 01:12PM

stoplooklisten wrote: »

The ex-wife says this:

“There were things he would do in his daily life that most straight men don’t do,” she said in a phone interview with TIME on Tuesday.

“He would take a long time in front of the mirror, he would often take pictures of himself, and he made little movements with his body that definitely made me question things,” she recalled, “It definitely popped up in my head whether he was totally straight.”

http://time.com/4369577/orlando-shooting-sitora-yusufiy-omar-mateen-gay/

Maybe she didn't hear about metrosexuals?

The late prince wore women's clothing and make up and made lots off feminine movements with his body, yet he was hetrosexual.

StewartGriffin · 15-06-2016 01:14PM

This headline of "the worst attack on the gay community since the holocaust" is tabloid junk and anyone who parrots it is just showing their Western World bias. Terrible things have been done to people in Africa and the middle East since WW2 because of their sexual orientation and who knows what IS have done to those people inside their terror state.

12Phase · 15-06-2016 02:12PM

stoplooklisten wrote: »

The ex-wife says this:

“There were things he would do in his daily life that most straight men don’t do,” she said in a phone interview with TIME on Tuesday.

“He would take a long time in front of the mirror, he would often take pictures of himself, and he made little movements with his body that definitely made me question things,” she recalled, “It definitely popped up in my head whether he was totally straight.”

http://time.com/4369577/orlando-shooting-sitora-yusufiy-omar-mateen-gay/

What a ridiculous statement. That just means he's vane and maybe self-consciousness.

Sadly she is just unfortunately reinforcing a hackneyed media stereotype that actually feeds into homophobia that impacts gay men and actually straight men too.

Plenty of straight guys are into looking good, will preen themselves, might enjoy poetry, art, pop music, be emotional etc etc. I actually think that stereotyping and the homophobia associated with it has actually done a lot of damage to men's ability to be themselves and be comfortable in their own skin.

Likewise, it means a gay guy who is into football and enjoys stereotypically masculine things suddenly feels he's not gay enough to identify as gay and ends up isolated unnecessarily.

Same applies to women, I know some really glamorous lesbians and some straight women who love nothing more than GAA, adventure sports, grew up playing with tractors and find the thought of reading a beauty magazine ridiculous.

I mean, go back a few hundred years and guys dressed flamboyantly and walking around arm in arm with your best mate was grand. Sharing a bed simply for r
sleeping was grand.. people didn't jump to conclusions or get paranoid about needing to always check themselves and look straight until they introdiced heavy penalties for being gay and though fairly draconian social engineering made any outward sign of homosexuality become an area of total paranoia for men.

That era is gone thankfully.

Being gay is pretty simple really - you're attracted to the same gender as yourself. Other than that, nothing else is very different.

It's long overdue that people just accepted people have a very broad range of personalities that are just personalities and a % of the population is not straight and cuts right across every aspect of society, every personality type, every sport, every profession ....

Rjd2 · 15-06-2016 02:14PM

dav3 wrote: »

Are you still using this tragedy to score cheap points on the internet?

How long will you be able to keep this faux outrage up?

You're right though, the killer is only a drop in the ocean. A drop in the ocean when it comes to mass shootings in America.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/oct/02/mass-shootings-america-gun-violence

America clearly has a gun control issue however its unfair to downplay the concerns of the poster, we have had many ISIS attacks in Europe and America recently and many more have been promised.

Hopefully the below, nothing comes come from it, but I don't think its absurd to be absolutely terrified of what we could have in the next few years.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/15/france-and-belgium-face-imminent-terror-attack-from-armed-isil-c/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

stoplooklisten · 15-06-2016 02:15PM

12Phase wrote: »

What a ridiculous statement. That just means he's vane and maybe self-consciousness.

Sadly she is just unfortunately reinforcing a hackneyed media stereotype that actually feeds into homophobia that impacts gay men and actually straight men too.........

Would her religious views have anything to do with the ridiculous statement she made?

12Phase · 15-06-2016 02:22PM

stoplooklisten wrote: »

Would her religious views have anything to do with the ridiculous statement she made?

Could well have an intensifying effect that's for sure but it's a widely held view that keeps getting repeated with 'hilarious' stereotyping in popular culture.

Having lived in both Ireland and the US, I would rate the US as being far more homophobic, outside of bubbles of gay friendly places. I genuinely think modern day Irish and British guys are a hell of a lot more comfortable in their own skin than many Americans guys are.

The pantomime gay stereotypes aren't helpful though. I'm not saying don't have any camp guys but maybe throw in a few more straight camp lads and a few more gay rugby playing fire officers into your soap operas and sketches. It's actually way closer to reality.

unseenfootage · 15-06-2016 02:26PM

stoplooklisten wrote: »

Would her religious views have anything to do with the ridiculous statement she made?

What are her religious views?

She seems pretty moderate to me.
She doesn't wear the headscarf and sympathized with the victims of the attack.

She's from Uzbekistan I think. The men are culturally quite manly there I'd say.

12Phase · 15-06-2016 02:31PM

unseenfootage wrote: »

What are her religious views?

She seems pretty moderate to me.
She doesn't wear the headscarf and sympathized with the victims of the attack.

She's from Uzbekistan I think. The men are culturally quite manly there I'd say.

She didn't make any religious views known AFAIK. All I'm saying is the only indicator of being gay is being attracted to people of the same gender. All other stuff is just cultural biases of various types.

The fact that the media is biting on the story shows its a fairly widespread one too.

Also your husband preening and going out at night on his own to secretive locations usually is more an indication he's cheating on you. Doesn't actually indicate with which gender.

stoplooklisten · 15-06-2016 02:35PM

12Phase wrote: »

She didn't make any religious views known AFAIK.

http://storyofastar.com/story-of-a-star/

She's one of ... em....she expressed here quite clearly

15-06-2016 03:14PM

unseenfootage wrote: »

Maybe she didn't hear about metrosexuals?

The late prince wore women's clothing and make up and made lots off feminine movements with his body, yet he was hetrosexual.

as far as you know.. tons of celebrities seem heterosexual or like to be seen as though they are. I just think when it comes to celebs and singers and sexuality, we cannot say for certain.

I mean Jimmy Saville was a saint like charity fundraising fun-loving fun-running,
altruistic philanthropist, wasn't he??

12Phase · 15-06-2016 03:37PM

Wow! That's a highly inappropriate comparison!

I Am Justice82 · 15-06-2016 04:17PM

Does anyone follow Milo Yiannopoulos on Twitter ? well if you are or were, his twitter account has just being suspended, how Ironic is it that a gay man who spoke highly critical about Islam following the Orlando attacks gets his account suspended from a social media site .

wakka12 · 15-06-2016 04:25PM

stoplooklisten wrote: »

Why did he let black people go, saying "they'd suffered enough"?Where they not homosexual enough for him?

.

What? Where did you hear he did that? There were several black fatalities.

Ozymandius2011 · 15-06-2016 04:25PM

I Am Justice82 wrote: »

Does anyone follow Milo Yiannopoulos on Twitter ? well if you are or were, his twitter account has just being suspended, how Ironic is it that a gay man who spoke highly critical about Islam following the Orlando attacks gets his account suspended from a social media site .

Most tech money is going into the Clinton campaign in this election according to an article on realclearpolitics.com so Im not surprised they are cracking down. Reddit was also removing articles that mention the religion of the terrorist.

wakka12 · 15-06-2016 04:25PM

Gatling wrote: »

Have any one else notice trump barely mentioned the victims the mostly gay Latinos (from the victims named ) after this attack .

I haven't heard even a single news agency or reporter mention most victims were latino, not just trump.

15-06-2016 04:30PM

12Phase wrote: »

Wow! That's a highly inappropriate comparison!

that's the point though. you can assume all you want judging by what a persona presents themselves to be. when it comes to showbiz folk, safer to say "they seemed straight, Gay, Bi" etc.

I just couldn't think of a juxtaposed famous person in terms of extremes.
We've all heard the Elton john got married and roc Hudson ones.

eve now we are hearing that one time high fiver, 3 girls in one night womaniser Charlie sheen was closer to one man, one woman and one transsexual, on one night! again celebrities only see what they allow us to see.

anyways back to the topic.

wakka12 · 15-06-2016 04:30PM

unseenfootage wrote: »

Maybe she didn't hear about metrosexuals?

The late prince wore women's clothing and make up and made lots off feminine movements with his body, yet he was hetrosexual.

Yet he said he was heterosexual. I know its a stereoptype but really I don't know a lot of men who care a lot about their appearance and take lots of selfies that arent gay, obvioussly there are some. But really if somebody shows stereptypically homosexual traits they are very likely to be gay, from my experience. To the point that Ive met and got with several gay guys from public settings going off subtle little stereotypes

stoplooklisten · 15-06-2016 04:34PM

wakka12 wrote: »

What? Where did you hear he did that? There were several black fatalities.

The witness account of the black girl who was in the toilets

stoplooklisten · 15-06-2016 04:36PM

The wife of the gunman who killed 49 people at an Orlando gay nightclub could face criminal charges as early as Wednesday after a federal grand jury was convened to study possible wrongdoing by her, a law enforcement source said.

Salman was with Mateen when he cased possible targets in the past two months, including the Walt Disney World Resort in April, a shopping complex called Disney Springs and the Pulse nightclub in early June, CNN and NBC reported.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-florida-shooting-idUSKCN0Z017C

Most places he scouted

wakka12 · 15-06-2016 04:38PM

stoplooklisten wrote: »

The witness account of the black girl who was in the toilets

Well the youngest victim in the attack was an 18 year old black girl. I definitely saw at least 4 or 5 other black guys and girls in the victim list..maybe they were shot in the initial bullet spray when he entered I don't know. The guy who sent his mother texts from the bathroom saying he was about to die was definitely black too, I think he was called Justice.

Mass shooting in Orlando Nightclub

Comments