Mass shooting in Orlando Nightclub

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Nice bit of victim blaming going on

"oh actually he was secretly one of yours, proper straight men never do these things because they're too busy being straight and manly, and *real* men wouldn't something so cowardly"

I'm confused by this Comment?

Bannasidhe wrote: »

At least make it something we haven't already seen posted during the marriage equality debates.

Cheers.

Point ignored in favour of promoting own point.
Something bad happened somewhere sometime in history so this current bad thing here is OK. Is that what you're getting at?

Sweetemotion wrote: »

This thread is about a gay Muslim, that killed 49 innocent people in the name of Allah.

The marriage equality was so, so, so, last year.

Why are you bringing it up here?

So they can pretend insulting straight males is OK because somebody somewhere sometime insulted LBGTs.
Powerful argument, isn't it?

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Nice bit of victim blaming going on

"oh actually he was secretly one of yours, proper straight men never do these things because they're too busy being straight and manly, and *real* men wouldn't something so cowardly"

I don't think that is true, but for the same reasons that Owen Jones came across as a bit ridiculous for storming off Sky News.

Sand wrote: »

I don't think that is true, but for the same reasons that Owen Jones came across as a bit ridiculous for storming off Sky News.

Good grief...

I get that tensions are high, but you're being watched by millions of people.
If you can't keep level about it, you have no place in front of them. That's no good to anyone behaving like that.

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Good grief...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmMXxx-EWcY

I get that tensions are high, but you're being watched by millions of people.
If you can't keep level about it, you have no place in front of them. That's no good to anyone behaving like that.

I actually feel sympathy for Owen Jones in that he was obviously and understandably emotional about it, and got aggressive with people who were trying to acknowledge the attack as being against them all.

In the moment he instead felt it was an exclusive attack against some in-group, and no one else could understand. Much in the same way he didn't feel empathy when fans of a US metal band he probably wasn't a fan of were killed 7 months ago, the London commuters which he wasn't commuting with were attacked in 2005, or US office workers he didn't work with were killed in 2001. Those were people with which he had nothing in common.

Except they were all us. Either Owen is comfortable with that, or he isnt.

Federal prosecutors have convened a grand jury to investigate the wife of the Orlando nightclub shooter, seeking to charge her as an accessory to 49 counts of murder and 53 counts of attempted murder as well as with failure to notify law enforcement about the pending terrorist attack and lying to federal agents, a federal law enforcement source confirmed Tuesday to FoxNews.com.

...
Salman told investigators that Mateen shared his plans with her to carry out an attack and Mateen may have even called her from the gay club Pulse during the slaughter, ...

Mateen allegedly scouted an alternate location for the shooting -- Downtown Disney -- in April and again in early June, CBS reported.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/14/orlando-gunman-made-multiple-visits-to-nightclub-attacked-reports-say.html


It looks like the wife was involved too

So Mateen may have been a self hating gay man or bisexual man and extremely homophobic.
He may have been heterosexual and just extremely homophobic.
He used gay apps and one person said he used the apps to ask about gay clubs.
He visited the Pulse nightclub many times, it seemed to have started after his visits to Saudi Arabia.
He watched lots of videos of an American Islamic extremist who went to Yemen and who was in Al Qaeda, whom the US eventually killed in a drone strike.
He watched videos of ISIS beheading people.
He went to a mosque where another Islamic extremist attended and who went to Syria and blew himself up in a suicide attack.
He attended the mosque since 1999, and according to a person who attended the mosque for a long time, he is worried there are more people who attend the mosque that could be radicalised.
The same person says Mateen became very religious around the age of 14, and would be asking 'does Islam allow this/that?', he says he became very questioning about Islam.
He visited Saudi Arabia in 2011 and 2012.
He seemed to support various terrorist organisations, even those who opposed eachother.
No one knows how he met his second wife named Noor.
Noor has driven him to the nightclub in the past to scope it out.
Noor knew he was going to attack the nightclub, but did nothing to prevent it.


I think Omar Mateen attended the gay nightclub as a mole. That he felt he infiltrated a culture that he opposed so much that it in fact re-affirmed his radical beliefs and helped his radicalisation as it caused anger.
Given it seems it is only in recent years he started going to the gay nightclub, and it was after his trips to Saudi Arabia.
It does look like maybe he went down a path in the last number of years that was calculated with the plan to be a 'martyr' and the Pulse nightclub had been the target for a few years, and his presence there would have him known and make it easier to carry out the plan.

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Can the wife be executed if she did assist him? Florida has the death penalty

Not entirely sure. If she is to be charged as a co conspirator in a terrorist plot she'd likely face trial in a Federal Court.

aloyisious wrote: »

The re-hashing of that can be responded to by asking why he was asked, as a gay man, to come on the show and expected to be unemotional about the murder of dozens of fellow gay men a few hours earlier merely because they were gay that the other two could discuss at a detached level because they are straight and able to put detachment into their analysis of the story.

Along with the anger he would have felt at the actual murders, they go on and compound it by their comments about it (edit/inclusion - and the attempt at mass murder in the gay pub bombing on Old Comptom St in London's Soho gay scene area) and then follow it up about "his unprofessional behaviour" when he finally lost it, tore a strip from them for their supercilious behaviour and walked off the show.

Context is what it was all about and the other two just didn't get it, he felt the murders at a level they could NOT, the mass murder of members of his community.

I would argue that he wanted to divert attention away from the Islamic element to this atrocity for his own selfish political reasons. He got upset when he realised the other two were not falling for his usual tactic of emotional manipulation because that is all it was.

You think he has more of a right to be upset because it was an attack on his community. Poppycock. He was probably distressed because of the high levels of cognitive dissonance going on in his head. How can he shout Islamophobia and Homophobia at the same time and not sound deranged?

Jack Killian wrote:

I'd wait until a reputable source reports it, including quote from a named FBI investigator, rather than a "source".

Fox news is perfectly reputable. They obviously have a right wing bias just as other "reputable" news sources like the guardian or the BBC have left wing biases.

RobertKK wrote: »

So Mateen may have been a self hating gay man or bisexual man and extremely homophobic.
He may have been heterosexual and just extremely homophobic.
He used gay apps and one person said he used the apps to ask about gay clubs.
He visited the Pulse nightclub many times, it seemed to have started after his visits to Saudi Arabia.
He watched lots of videos of an American Islamic extremist who went to Yemen and who was in Al Qaeda, whom the US eventually killed in a drone strike.
He watched videos of ISIS beheading people.
He went to a mosque where another Islamic extremist attended and who went to Syria and blew himself up in a suicide attack.
He attended the mosque since 1999, and according to a person who attended the mosque for a long time, he is worried there are more people who attend the mosque that could be radicalised.
The same person says Mateen became very religious around the age of 14, and would be asking 'does Islam allow this/that?', he says he became very questioning about Islam.
He visited Saudi Arabia in 2011 and 2012.
He seemed to support various terrorist organisations, even those who opposed eachother.
No one knows how he met his second wife named Noor.
Noor has driven him to the nightclub in the past to scope it out.
Noor knew he was going to attack the nightclub, but did nothing to prevent it.


I think Omar Mateen attended the gay nightclub as a mole. That he felt he infiltrated a culture that he opposed so much that it in fact re-affirmed his radical beliefs and helped his radicalisation as it caused anger.
Given it seems it is only in recent years he started going to the gay nightclub, and it was after his trips to Saudi Arabia.
It does look like maybe he went down a path in the last number of years that was calculated with the plan to be a 'martyr' and the Pulse nightclub had been the target for a few years, and his presence there would have him known and make it easier to carry out the plan.

Next we'll hear he was only pretending to be black.

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Good grief...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmMXxx-EWcY

I get that tensions are high, but you're being watched by millions of people.
If you can't keep level about it, you have no place in front of them. That's no good to anyone behaving like that.

Think he did very well. We are so used to clinical unemotional media polished performances on what passes for news these days someone who is actually passionate about the topic being discussed is a breath of fresh air.

stefanovich wrote: »

I would argue that he wanted to divert attention away from the Islamic element to this atrocity for his own selfish political reasons. He got upset when he realised the other two were not falling for his usual tactic of emotional manipulation because that is all it was.

You think he has more of a right to be upset because it was an attack on his community. Poppycock. He was probably distressed because of the high levels of cognitive dissonance going on in his head. How can he shout Islamophobia and Homophobia at the same time and not sound deranged?

Re his being upset, I pointed out THAT HE WAS UPSET, and WHY, period.

As for his wanting to divert attention away from the Islamic element to this atrocity for hi own political reasons, it sound's like you think he's an Islamophiliac and had an internal struggle about Islam's inherent dislike of Gay, well they seem big enough issues to merit a separate thread about him.