Mass shooting in Orlando Nightclub

drunkmonkey · 13-06-2016 09:17PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

38,000 people spread across 39 countries.

Average of 974 people per country.

Now I'm no statistician but 974 people per country out of countries where the population is millions seems like a fairly small sample to be basing some major claims on.

What it's not saying is women don't get to Vote and a man can have 7 wives, hell I'd vote for that if didn't come with Islamic baggage.

Bannasidhe · 13-06-2016 09:18PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

As opposed to blaming Christians, or white people, or guns? A radicalised muslim attacked a gay club. He is the only person who should be blamed.

Has it been confirmed he was radicalized?

Last I heard there was some doubt.

When you say 'He is the only person who should be blamed' does that mean no fault lies with his religion?

A homophobe murdered people in a gay club.

A homophobe.

Can we all agree on that?

Jimmy Garlic · 13-06-2016 09:18PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

As opposed to blaming Christians, or white people, or guns? A radicalised muslim attacked a gay club. He is the only person who should be blamed.

The gun didn't get up that morning, load itself, and decide to kill people. As for the suggestion that terrorists wouldn't be able to get guns if they weren't legal... well that is just asinine. If a very unlikely scenario arose where a hate fueled terrorist couldn't get their hands on a gun all they would have to do is build a big car bomb or something along those lines and use that instead.

Kiwi in IE · 13-06-2016 09:19PM

McGruber wrote: »

Tbh, you are eating away at my respect for the LGBT community on here.

Right so, so your opinion of the posts of one person is going to change your view of the entirety of the worlds LGBTQ population? That's rational!

Kind of reminds me of the herd mentality attitude toward all Muslims when one Muslim or several Muslims perpetrate an atrocity.

By the way, I'm sure you probably don't like my posts much either, is that eating away at your respect for the heterosexual community?

Superhorse · 13-06-2016 09:19PM

Cienciano wrote: »

How are we in danger? What laws have irish people broken? What ideas have you done to make Ireland safer? Give me an example of how we're in danger?

I've given you the figures 81% support for ISIS among Muslims. Even if it's 20% in Ireland which I suspect it is at a very minimum that's 20% too high. If you can't see the link between ISIS and danger then I can only presume you are very uninformed on world affairs.

Sand · 13-06-2016 09:20PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Nobody is blaming the victims that's absurd. The question was if a certain group are now targets should we jepordazie public safety on Paddys Day.
Personally I think it's a one off by a nut case but the community seems to see itself as fair game more than anyone else, hence the question.

In fairness, your security concern over St Patricks Day is overdone. I don't know what your own motivation is, but it could be interpreted as trying to find any excuse to remove them from the parade.

These guys attacked a marathon, they will attack any public gathering of people and any soft target.

Renegade Mechanic · 13-06-2016 09:22PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Also a lot of criticism on Islam re womens and LGBT rights come from many who were never really concerned with our rights in the first place.

Oh for Christ's sake, it's this crap again....
For me personally - and I suspect I speak for a lot of us - we simply got fed up of being argued with over things like holding doors and 'microagressions', in which simply being male was "triggering", so we collectively went "stuff that", and withdrew from most echoes chambers on the internet. Because you lot only tolerate people who agree with your - at times - utter madness, it would naturally look like we were nowhere to be found or seen.

In short, that's because we weren't. We were ignoring ye. Discussing other things amongst ourselves, but among the things being discussed was the dangers posed by importing millions of people with shall we say... "alternative" opinions of western culture. The things ye were quite happily banning most of us over, right up to Cologne - where I had to say in one thread the exact same thing I'm saying now.

We were always discussing this, it's only now presented itself in a way you can no longer ignore. Naturally, because you're having to discuss it, people like you are coming together with people like us in different areas of the Internet.

And, naturally, because some of you are just so damn self-centered, it appears from your point of view that we've only just arrived now, when the actual fact is that it's you (plural, not personal) are the ones who've just arrived to the discussion and due to the self centredness/persecution complexes, it's rationalised as meaning we only just started caring to score those all important racism points!

You just can't handle people not agreeing with things like homosexuality, feminism, LGBTQIAFDTJBGTHOBVHH, and other things but yet not actually wanting to murder the people under those labels, and actively arguing - and fighting - against those who do!
Why are you lot unable to accept that?

Lyaiera wrote: »

Cool. Hating gay people a little bit is ok.

...... Honestly what's the point in even trying..

Michah · 13-06-2016 09:22PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

38,000 people spread across 39 countries.

Average of 974 people per country.

Now I'm no statistician but 974 people per country out of countries where the population is millions seems like a fairly small sample to be basing some major claims on.

That's how polling works.

Sample size doesn't much depend on the population size, which is counter intuitive to many. Most polling companies use 400 or 1000 people in their samples.

There is a reason for this:

A sample size of 400 will give you a confidence interval of +/-5% 19 times out of 20 (95%)

A sample size of 1000 will give you a confidence interval of +/-3% 19 times out of 20 (95%)

LightsStillOn · 13-06-2016 09:22PM

Superhorse wrote: »

You think the figure could be higher?

I don't think the figure could be anything, because I having no idea how much these people are riding and having kids, you seem to be the expert in that regard!

Superhorse · 13-06-2016 09:23PM

Trump speaking more sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFIVXkJWzfA

Very presidential.

Superhorse · 13-06-2016 09:24PM

LightsStillOn wrote: »

I don't think the figure could be anything, because I having no idea how much these people are riding and having kids, you seem to be the expert in that regard!

Okay well let's see when the census figures come out.

Bannasidhe · 13-06-2016 09:26PM

Sand wrote: »

Well, if it disagrees with your viewpoint, you can probably ignore the 38,000 surveyed and the scientific method applied.

Jeeze... all I said was it seemed like a small sample size.

I remember when a form of poll called a census was taken in Ireland bout 5 years ago and it said over 80% of the population is Roman Catholic but there was this other poll that said that hardly any one was going to Mass and Catholic stuff like that and some of the Catholics didn't even believe in the existence of God..

Oh, then there was the poll that said Neil Kinnock was going to beat Thatcher and become PM...

I am not one to place faith in polls. Not even when they say what I want them to say.

Grayson · 13-06-2016 09:26PM

WoolyJumper wrote: »

This one?
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

Not seeing where you got your figures from. As suspected these polls deal in percentages because they didn't ask each and every Muslim. There is a reason polling companies use percentages rather than exact numbers. They can claim that 50% of the 1000 polled believe this and can take it as a representation as a whole but they can't say 1 billion believe because they didn't actually ask 1 billion people. I'm not saying these polls aren't accurate or aren't good representation of muslims stances on these issues in the countries polled (results varied dramatically country by country btw) just that its not accurate or correct to use exact numbers, no one has the opinion of each individual muslim.

Polls can be pretty accurate.

But the questions are a bit off. See Sharia isn't just beheading and stuff. It's formal stuff for peoples personal lives. Take marriage for example. Many countries recognise a religious marriage as the same as a state marriage. So if you allow a catholic priest to marry you and that's legal then it's a combination of both religious and secular law.

The same goes for sharia. What most muslims want is the ability to have that kind of stuff recognised by the state. I'm actually ok with it so long as three criteria are met
1) the person practising has to be trained by the state for whatever function. (so a priest/iman can perform a ceremony legally or a muslim solicitor can oversee a property dispute)
2) The action cannot contravene the laws of the state.
3) the action must be appealable/reversable through both the state and religious processes. For example a marriage annulment could be recognised but also a divorce would be recognised by the religion.

Barry Badrinath · 13-06-2016 09:26PM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Right so, so you're opinion of the posts of one person is going to change your view of the entirety of the worlds LGBTQ population? That's rational!

If you are going to quote and respond to a post, at least read it first.

Then come back to me.

Bannasidhe · 13-06-2016 09:28PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Nobody is blaming the victims that's absurd. The question was if a certain group are now targets should we jepordazie public safety on Paddys Day.
Personally I think it's a one off by a nut case but the community seems to see itself as fair game more than anyone else, hence the question.

Ummm... it kinda is.

Not saying that is how you meant it but it still kinda is...

In a 'they were asking for it'/'what did they expect' kinda way.

20Cent · 13-06-2016 09:29PM

That Pew poll was conducted by face to face interviews in Islamic countries where criticising Islam is often illegal. Shocking that the answers were like that.

Michah · 13-06-2016 09:31PM

LightsStillOn wrote: »

What an absolutely idiotic comment

Ireland's Muslim population is forecast to treble from 2010 to 2030. That's according to a Pew Research study: The future of the global Muslim population. They estimate there were 43,000 Muslims in Ireland in 2010 and that there will be 125,000 by 2030.

Bannasidhe · 13-06-2016 09:31PM

Michah wrote: »

That's how polling works.

Sample size doesn't much depend on the population size, which is counter intuitive to many. Most polling companies use 400 or 1000 people in their samples.

There is a reason for this:

A sample size of 400 will give you a confidence interval of +/-5% 19 times out of 20 (95%)

A sample size of 1000 will give you a confidence interval of +/-3% 19 times out of 20 (95%)

K.

Thanks for that.

Sand · 13-06-2016 09:32PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Jeeze... all I said was it seemed like a small sample size.

I remember when a form of poll called a census was taken in Ireland bout 5 years ago and it said over 80% of the population is Roman Catholic but there was this other poll that said that hardly any one was going to Mass and Catholic stuff like that and some of the Catholics didn't even believe in the existence of God..

Oh, then there was the poll that said Neil Kinnock was going to beat Thatcher and become PM...

I am not one to place faith in polls. Not even when they say what I want them to say.

Which added nothing other than dismissing the significantly more effort put into the report.

As it is - what is surprising about the report? Believers in a regressive belief system which takes regressive positions on a host of issues largely have regressive views themselves isnt really all that shocking. I imagine if self identifying neo-nazis were surveyed they would have fairly regressive views on race relations.

Kiwi in IE · 13-06-2016 09:33PM

McGruber wrote: »

If you are going to quote and respond to a post, at least read it first.

Then come back to me.

Why did you mean something different to what you wrote?

Superhorse · 13-06-2016 09:35PM

http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/2015/06/23/nationwide-poll-of-us-muslims-shows-thousands-support-shariah-jihad/

We have a worldwide problem with Islam. Bury the heads in the sand all you want it won't change the facts.

Cienciano · 13-06-2016 09:36PM

Superhorse wrote: »

I've given you the figures 81% support for ISIS among Muslims. Even if it's 20% in Ireland which I suspect it is at a very minimum that's 20% too high. If you can't see the link between ISIS and danger then I can only presume you are very uninformed on world affairs.

I read the links. If that is your answer to the question to "What threat do we face in Ireland?" Answer this:
What do you think irish security forces and the Gardai should do on the basis of the results of the Al Jazira online poll you posted? What laws have irish people broken? What ideas have you done to make Ireland safer?

Jimmy Garlic · 13-06-2016 09:37PM

Grayson wrote: »

The same goes for sharia. What most muslims want is the ability to have that kind of stuff recognised by the state. I'm actually ok with it so long as three criteria are met
1) the person practising has to be trained by the state for whatever function. (so a priest/iman can perform a ceremony legally or a muslim solicitor can oversee a property dispute)
2) The action cannot contravene the laws of the state.
3) the action must be appealable/reversable through both the state and religious processes. For example a marriage annulment could be recognised but also a divorce would be recognised by the religion.

So forced child marriages would be just fine with you? If they want to live in the west they should respect our laws. If not they should clear off and set up shop in a primitive dump where those backward practices are acceptable.

Bannasidhe · 13-06-2016 09:38PM

Sand wrote: »

Which added nothing other than dismissing the significantly more effort put into the report.

As it is - what is surprising about the report? Believers in a regressive belief system which takes regressive positions on a host of issues largely have regressive views themselves isnt really all that shocking. I imagine if self identifying neo-nazis were surveyed they would have fairly regressive views on race relations.

Are you telling me polls are never wrong?

I am not saying this is or isn't.

I am saying I have seen too many waaaay off the mark polls to trust them.

I also don't know the science as I never bothered to learn it so my saying it seems like a small sample to me was quite genuine.

unseenfootage · 13-06-2016 09:41PM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

So forced child marriages would be just fine with you? [/B]

He did say it should npot contravene state laws. Were you not reading?

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

If not they should clear off and set up shop in a primitive dump where those backward practices are acceptable.

The problem is that when they do try to leave us we throw them in prison.

LightsStillOn · 13-06-2016 09:42PM

Michah wrote: »

Ireland's Muslim population is forecast to treble from 2010 to 2030. That's according to a Pew Research study: The future of the global Muslim population. They estimate there were 43,000 Muslims in Ireland in 2010 and that there will be 125,000 by 2030.

Ireland's population is growing, full stop. We had the highest birth rate level in Europe last year. It's not an inherently Muslim thing that's happening, so don't worry. They won't be taking over anytime soon. They are just following the trend over here, fitting it with the culture you might say

And with the day that's in it, we might even have a few Irish Muslim football players by the time the 2032 Euros kick off!

Barry Badrinath · 13-06-2016 09:42PM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Why did you mean something different to what you wrote?

Come on now, lets not play 'purple monkey dishwasher'.

This is what I said:
-"you are eating away at my respect for the LGBT community on here"

This is what you said:
-"Right so, so your opinion of the posts of one person is going to change your view of the entirety of the worlds LGBTQ population? That's rational!"

Clearly the two are not the same. You have escalated it and formed a one sided argument for the sake of it.

Please don't waste your time arguing over something that you incorrectly interpreted.

Also you said this:

-"By the way, I'm sure you probably don't like my posts much either, is that eating away at your respect for the heterosexual community?"

I honestly haven't taken stock of any of your posts on this thread but to answer your question, no.

My name is URL · 13-06-2016 09:42PM

Trump and 99% of his Americunt supporters wouldn't have the balls to use their guns if the 'evil government' ever came to take them away.

A nation of useful idiots that aren't even all that useful.

Matt Markinson · 13-06-2016 09:43PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

As opposed to blaming Christians, or white people, or guns? A radicalised muslim attacked a gay club. He is the only person who should be blamed.

Blame the actual murderer for the murders ? now what's that going to achieve ?
Surely there must be a way of blaiming something else to suit one's preffered agenda ?

Superhorse · 13-06-2016 09:44PM

Michah wrote: »

Ireland's Muslim population is forecast to treble from 2010 to 2030. That's according to a Pew Research study: The future of the global Muslim population. They estimate there were 43,000 Muslims in Ireland in 2010 and that there will be 125,000 by 2030.

Think 60k give or take 2-3k is a fair estimate now. Anyway it's beside the point even if only 10% of them support ISIS it's a massive risk to our national security.

Mass shooting in Orlando Nightclub

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