Mass shooting in Orlando Nightclub

JPNelsforearm · 13-06-2016 04:39PM

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/742370798850199552

Trump breaks Hillarys resolve

Oafley Jones · 13-06-2016 04:40PM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Pretty amazed to just read that there is a 0 day waiting list to buy an AR-15 in Florida - the automatic rifle used in this attack

I am not all super anti-gun, I can maybe understand Americans wanting pistols for home defense, or hunting rifles for hunting

but what social purpose does an AR 15 have? why no restrictions?

There are many reasons and factors involved in the attack, but surely a zero day waiting time and almost zero restrictions for buying heavy weaponry which has no genuine purpose is not helping the situation

Was it an automatic? Class 3 firearms are fairly well controlled, even in gun crazy states like Florida.

smash · 13-06-2016 04:41PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Islam is about 600 years 'younger' than Christianity and is in about the same place Christianity was 600 years ago.

You know - when the Inquisition was around. And witchtrials (Protestants tended to go in for those more than Catholics) and the two main Christian denominations were killing each other for past time -thousands of Huguenots slaughtered in Paris in one night in 1572 (Catholics say 2000, Huguenots say 70,000).

Same meat different gravy as I already said.

Christianity in the West merely has had it's cough softened by revolutionary secularists and sex scandals.

So you're agreeing with me then?

Dyr · 13-06-2016 04:41PM

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Er... If you've gone down a dead end, you're not going to go back out to the gun toter. Yer going to wait for as long as it takes to get caught.

That said, I've seen texts allegedly on parents phones of messages from young people telling them to call the police and inform them that they're hiding in the bathroom.
Even though I refuse to believe that myself, it's an indication of how long the victims were there, mabye 15 minutes?

Maybe a lot of people would be alive now if they'd been encouraged to put some thought into their safety. Like knowing that running into a tiny dead end like a bathroom is a bad idea, and making a point of knowing where all the exits and potential exits are might save your damn life.

RobertKK · 13-06-2016 04:45PM

Obama saying the attack is "homegrown extremism" caused by a "perversion of Islam".

20Cent · 13-06-2016 04:47PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Obama saying the attack is "homegrown extremism" caused by a "perversion of Islam".

Sounds right.

ceadaoin. · 13-06-2016 04:48PM

Bambi wrote: »

Maybe a lot of people would be alive now if they'd been encouraged to put some thought into their safety. Like knowing that running into a tiny dead end like a bathroom is a bad idea, and making a point of knowing where all the exits and potential exits are might save your damn life.

I'm sure it was utter chaos and panic in there at the time. You would just go anywhere you could that felt safe. I always look where the exits are when I go somewhere like that but I don't know how I would actually react in a crisis situation.

I read something yesterday how a small group ran out into an alleyway that was a dead end. They barricaded the door so it couldn't be opened and had to listen to people banging on it to get out but we're too scared to open it. How horrible

Bannasidhe · 13-06-2016 04:49PM

smash wrote: »

So you're agreeing with me then?

I think that currently the lunatics are shouting the loudest in Islam and ordinary Muslims are terrified to speak out for fear of reprisals. I would pin Saudi Arabia as the driving force behind the madness.

Same as happened in Christianity up until around the French Revolution - The Spanish Empire was the finance behind Catholic extremism until it went bankrupt.

Worryingly within Christianity there is a growing lunatic fringe emerging out of the southern United States that is sponsoring hate legislation internally and externally (like Uganda) and the Russian Orthodox Church is exerting alarming influence in Russia.

In predominantly Christian Florida a homophobic Islamic Lunatic was able to legally purchase assault weapons and target homosexuals in a State that is at best ambiguous about LGBTQI rights and at worse downright hostile.

A Perfect Storm of Hate.

Oafley Jones · 13-06-2016 04:52PM

Bambi wrote: »

Most religious nutters are mentally unstable, kinda goes with the territory.

How long did the attack last? Hours? I can't get over the fact people hid in bathrooms and waited for someone to come and kill them.

I'd disagree with this. Rather than being mentally unstable I'd say there's a far higher prevalence of people who are susceptible to an ideology. You know the type, there a quite a few here on boards. It's the sort of person who seems to have a cause or belief system that is just locked in "read only state" as it were. They have this complete inability to challenge or question this base value. They're impervious to logic. They may even be fairly intelligent. This doesn't necessarily have to be a violent in nature, it can be everything from Scientology to Libertarian objectivists to fans of a particular brand.

jmayo · 13-06-2016 04:54PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Kinda like the 700 men in the Irish Brigade who fought for Franco during the Spanish civil war were the tip of a fascist iceberg which is how we ended up with a .... oh hang on... that didn't happen.

What happened was the approx 200 socialists who fought for the Spanish republic came back and staged a coup and the soviet of... nope... that didn't happen either.

Congratulations.
You are now onto Whataboutery Level 3.

I could never have imagined the International Brigades being dragged into a discussion on ISIS.

The people who went to fight both for and against Franco didn't hate everyone and anyone.
They didn't want to return back to their countries of origin and continue the blood lust.
And they didn't tend to engage in suicide bombings, they tended to fight like men and women.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

As a matter of interest is there a difference between Irish Muslims and Irish based Muslims?

Is one lot good but the other bad or both bad or what?
What about Irish Muslims based somewhere else? Are they good or bad?

I'm asking as I have a school reunion coming up and one of my classmates converted to Islam about 20 years ago and I'm wondering if she will be obliged to kill me.

Can you answer how so some pretty normal muslim school kids turn into the likes of jihadi john, or three of the 7/7 bombers in London.

These guys don't come from deprived backgrounds, but yet they end up blowing the shyte out of themselves and scores of innocent people.

Hell one of Lee Rigbny's killers, Michael Adebolajo was born a christian and converted.
Likewise London 7/7 bomber Germaine Lindsay.

The amount of verbal gymnastics and deflection you have engaged in this thread to somehow try and lessen or obfuscate the fact that the killer in Orlando was a muslim with links to radical islam is only copper fastening the mindset some of us have that certain people are behaving in a manner similar to turkeys voting for Christmas.

Yes there are lots of homophobic people out there, they may be Jewish, Catholic, some Protestant denomination, Hindu, Buddhist, atheist, agnostic.

Some are vehement in their hatred of homosexuality, but in the grand scheme of things fundamentalist muslims are in a league of their own for actually taking that hatred to the extreme.

You can try and twists this inside out, but you can't deny that an islamic background and upbringing probably meant this guys hatred of homosexuals was fanned rather than quenched.

Yggr of Asgard · 13-06-2016 04:55PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Obama saying the attack is "homegrown extremism" caused by a "perversion of Islam".

I'm sure that President Obama has more insight into this than most of us non-Muslims giving that for a long period he studied the holy book of the Qur'an.

But for me it does not matter, if it's the Qur'an, The Bible, The 12 Books of Scientology or some other manuscript which is quoted as inspiration for crazy people. Religion is too often used as an excuse for action, even if there are other reasons.

RobertKK · 13-06-2016 05:00PM

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

I'm sure that President Obama has more insight into this than most of us non-Muslims giving that for a long period he studied the holy book of the Qur'an.

But for me it does not matter, if it's the Qur'an, The Bible, The 12 Books of Scientology or some other manuscript which is quoted as inspiration for crazy people. Religion is too often used as an excuse for action, even if there are other reasons.

Hillary Clinton who he endorsed called it radical Islamic extremism.

Bannasidhe · 13-06-2016 05:02PM

jmayo wrote: »

Congratulations.
You are now onto Whataboutery Level 3.

I could never have imagined the International Brigades being dragged into a discussion on ISIS.

The people who went to fight both for and against Franco didn't hate everyone and anyone.
They didn't want to return back to their countries of origin and continue the blood lust.
And they didn't tend to engage in suicide bombings, they tended to fight like men and women.

Can you answer how so some pretty normal muslim school kids turn into the likes of jihadi john, or three of the 7/7 bombers in London.

These guys don't come from deprived backgrounds, but yet they end up blowing the shyte out of themselves and scores of innocent people.

Hell one of Lee Rigbny's killers, Michael Adebolajo was born a christian and converted.
Likewise London 7/7 bomber Germaine Lindsay.

The amount of verbal gymnastics and deflection you have engaged in this thread to somehow try and lessen or obfuscate the fact that the killer in Orlando was a muslim with links to radical islam is only copper fastening the mindset some of us have that certain people are behaving in a manner similar to turkeys voting for Christmas.

Yes there are lots of homophobic people out there, they may be Jewish, Catholic, some Protestant denomination, Hindu, Buddhist, atheist, agnostic.

Some are vehement in their hatred of homosexuality, but in the grand scheme of things fundamentalist muslims are in a league of their own for actually taking that hatred to the extreme.

You can try and twists this inside out, but you can't deny that an islamic background and upbringing probably meant this guys hatred of homosexuals was fanned rather than quenched.

Oh - I thought we had moved on to tip of the iceberg scenarios and lessons from history might be valuable as those who do not remember the past and all that.
It's as relevant as a Trump tweet about Hillary.

As for why/how people become radicalised I don't know never having been radicalised.
I imagine it was a similar process to how a nice, well educated, middle class English woman named Rose Dugdale ended up in the Provos.

Tell me this - how did a man who lived his whole life in the US avoid picking up on 'home grown' 'Merican homophobia and only absorb Islamic?

Me - I reckon he had a belly full of both varieties to fuel his hatred.

Cienciano · 13-06-2016 05:02PM

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Its not a question of belief, per capita we have the second highest percentage of ISIS fighter in Europe. We have a problem with radical Islam in Ireland, that is an indisputable fact.

People that have left Ireland. So they're no threat to us.

Yggr of Asgard · 13-06-2016 05:02PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Hillary Clinton who he endorsed called it radical Islamic extremism.

After the Donald hammered at her, focus groups had emergency meetings to discuss the implications of her using that term and a quick phone call to some Muslim donors showed that the money will continue to flow.

Timberrrrrrrr · 13-06-2016 05:02PM

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

:D

Good one !

IONA are a joke, and are losing power, they won't even exist in 50 years time - they're not gonna KILL you
either for mocking them.

Radical Islam on the other hand WILL KILL you for mockery and in 50 years time there is a good chance the UK will be
a Sharia Law state along with Germany and France.

Their policies on abortion and stopping it being available is a danger to the lives of women all over Ireland,.

As for the bolded :rolleyes: is all that claptrap deserves

smash · 13-06-2016 05:03PM

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

Religion is too often used as an excuse for action, even if there are other reasons.

Religion is usually the inspiration behind the action.

Bannasidhe · 13-06-2016 05:05PM

smash wrote: »

Religion is usually the inspiration behind the action.

Or the excuse.

Manic Moran · 13-06-2016 05:05PM

Bambi wrote: »

So why can't Americans own tanks, rpgs, heavy calibre support weapons and high explosives?

Take this militia as a bulwark against the army seriously or don't bother.

We can, actually. They take a few more licenses and they're expensive, but it is legal in most states to drive a fully functional, armed tank down the public highway. I've done it. And then to a drive-through for a burger. The only tank-type problems I'm aware of is that one guy who stole a tank from an Army base, and the other guy who decided to convert a Komatsu bulldozer into a tank by use of concrete and sheet metal. To my knowledge, there has never been a public nuisance or danger from anyone with an actual, personally owned tank (or similar piece of equipment). Artillery pieces etc are also legal for private ownership with the appropriate permits. I know one guy fires anti-tank missiles on his ranch in Idaho. (He has no warhead in those, as he likes to re-use the missiles, but they can be added).

[ETA: Surface to air missiles, and nuclear/chemical warheads are specifically prohibited, however]

It is, however, of note that the Founding Fathers (I'm actually not enamoured of that term, but I can't think of anything better) did not think it reasonable for private citizens to have to fork out for crew-served pieces (i.e. cannon), those would have been provided by the government.

Yggr of Asgard · 13-06-2016 05:06PM

Cienciano wrote: »

People that have left Ireland. So they're no threat to us.

But unlike that alleged Egyptian terrorist who the left always go on about these people can come back unless they get their virgins first in their fight in the Caliphate.

JPNelsforearm · 13-06-2016 05:06PM

Cienciano wrote: »

People that have left Ireland. So they're no threat to us.

Ha, what community did they spring from? Their values and incubation system is still intact and growing, their imans, their conservative religious families, their dual society.

smash · 13-06-2016 05:07PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Or the excuse.

Usually both.

RobertKK · 13-06-2016 05:07PM

smash wrote: »

Religion is usually the inspiration behind the action.

I would say ideology, whether that is religious ideology, political ideology or any other type of ideology.

Bannasidhe · 13-06-2016 05:08PM

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Ha, what community did they spring from? Their values and incubation system is still intact and growing, their imans, their conservative religious families, their dual society.

FFS it's Imam.

I. M. A. M.

10000maniacs · 13-06-2016 05:10PM

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/742370798850199552

Trump breaks Hillarys resolve

How does criticizing Islam play into ISIS's hands?, to quote Hilary and every rose growing liberal that has ever walked the earth.
Someone tell me how on earth it does?

Timberrrrrrrr · 13-06-2016 05:11PM

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Ha, what community did they spring from? Their values and incubation system is still intact and growing, their imans, their conservative religious families, their dual society.

IMAN

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR0BXWRxrACwtHtF-U-G6kzvXgnIxpR7eWBgG7-uPESMkaaFWWtVw

IMAM

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6ldUzBXRuZOYiBU34L8xXguEmMrS9PkUqtW7GUhawnT_lOSwQ5A

Huge difference

Jimmy Garlic · 13-06-2016 05:11PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Islam is about 600 years 'younger' than Christianity and is in about the same place Christianity was 600 years ago.

You know - when the Inquisition was around. And witchtrials (Protestants tended to go in for those more than Catholics) and the two main Christian denominations were killing each other for past time -thousands of Huguenots slaughtered in Paris in one night in 1572 (Catholics say 2000, Huguenots say 70,000).

Same meat different gravy as I already said.

Christianity in the West merely has had it's cough softened by revolutionary secularists and sex scandals.

Absolutely correct. We are being told to tolerate and even embrace something that is incredibly irrational, aggressive and hardwired to be violent. People who claim to be progressive mollycoddle it and defend it despite the glaring incompatibility it has with their own beliefs in regard to human rights, womens rights, gay rights etc. They are encouraging a monster that would wipe them out if it ever gained enough power. I want my children to grow up in a safe secular country devoid of the superstitious and dangerous dogma that accompanies religion. It should never be encouraged or pandered to.

Michah · 13-06-2016 05:17PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Islam is about 600 years 'younger' than Christianity and is in about the same place Christianity was 600 years ago.

Unfortunately, we, our children and grandchildren don't have 600 years to hang around and wait for them to get it together.

Shurimgreat · 13-06-2016 05:17PM

With the advent of IS and the easy availability of guns in America, events like these will become all too common place.

The fact that any nut job can walk into a store, buy assault rifles and thousands of rounds of ammunition, makes these events all but inevitable.

Equally to blame for these massacres are those groups who advocate easy availability of assault rifles.

This guy was on the FBI's radar and yet nothing could be done to stop him buying any weapon he wanted.

The law clearly needs to change to ban these high powered weapons from general sale.

My name is URL · 13-06-2016 05:17PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

The only tank-type problems I'm aware of is that one guy who stole a tank from an Army base, and the other guy who decided to convert a Komatsu bulldozer into a tank by use of concrete and sheet metal.

Both of which make for great viewing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TIun536HFo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZbG9i1oGPA

Mass shooting in Orlando Nightclub

Comments