Mass shooting in Orlando Nightclub

Saipanne · 13-06-2016 04:07PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Have yet to see any of this, any links?

Links. The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.

RobertKK · 13-06-2016 04:07PM

Omar Mateen tried to buy military grade body armour a few weeks ago but it was not sold to him as they did not have it.
No evidence he communicated with ISIS.
He did travel to Saudi Arabia twice in 2011 and 2012.
He shot about one third of the people inside the building.
It is being called a self radicalisation attack, as it was inspired by them.

Considering his father said he was not religious and tried to blame the attack on his son's homophobia, his trips to Saudi Arabia were for religious reasons, he also stopped off in Dubai.
Unknown if he met any terrorist.

smash · 13-06-2016 04:07PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Have yet to see any of this, any links?

Bar a video of an ISIS paddy's day parade, I think we'll have to take the media's word for it.

Timberrrrrrrr · 13-06-2016 04:10PM

Saipanne wrote: »

Links. The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.

He said it's an "indesputable fact"

I live in Ireland I've never seen any of it, have you?

I think Christian groups like IONA are a bigger danger to Irish people than some unknown Muslim.

RobertKK · 13-06-2016 04:10PM

Mateen attended the same mosque as suicide bomber Abu Salha.

Bannasidhe · 13-06-2016 04:11PM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

I hope that idea makes you feel better. You were here last night swearing that no imam ever encouraged violence against homosexuals, hahaha. Do you think the killer had an upsetting childhood? maybe that's the reason. There has to be a right-on reason for what happened.

Where did I say no Imam has encouraged violence against homosexuals?
C'Mon. Show me the post or withdraw the comment.

You are putting words in my mouth there matey.

I made a joke when a poster made a comment about being flung off a roof by an Iman - I could have pointed out this was in extremely bad taste but then thought perhaps he meant Iman the Somalian model and not Imam - a title for a Muslim cleric.
Because surely someone who is claiming to be knowledgeable about a religion would get the various titles right. I said this to my local Catholic Rabbi and she agreed.

I don't care about his childhood. He was a homophobic mass murderer. I am glad he is no longer on this planet. I wish all the homophobes would join him but take solo journeys and not decide to bring some gays with them.

I also don't care about Kevin Swanson's childhood. He is a homophobe advocating killing gays. I hope he dies roaring. Soon.

RobertKK · 13-06-2016 04:12PM

Six of the survivors are currently in surgery, hopefully everything goes well.

Gatling · 13-06-2016 04:13PM

RobertKK wrote: »

his trips to Saudi Arabia were for religious reasons,

Mecca .

Too bad they sold him a AR-15 and plenty of ammunition to carry out a mass shooting

Oafley Jones · 13-06-2016 04:13PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Omar Mateen tried to buy military grade body armour a few weeks ago but it was not sold to him as they did not have it.
No evidence he communicated with ISIS.
He did travel to Saudi Arabia twice in 2011 and 2012.
He shot about one third of the people inside the building.
It is being called a self radicalisation attack, as it was inspired by them.

Considering his father said he was not religious and tried to blame the attack on his son's homophobia, his trips to Saudi Arabia were for religious reasons, he also stopped off in Dubai.
Unknown if he met any terrorist.

Ex wife said he was mentally unstable as well. Doesn't it look more like the work of a lone nut with deep issues rather than some ISIS planned plot. The nature of the attack and the target is justa bit strange. There's far higher profile places he could have hit.

seamus · 13-06-2016 04:13PM

smash wrote: »

Except it's a christian country, and we're not all that backwards over here. His views and opinions are backwards!

It's not a christian country. Our constitution is very confused, simultaneously bleating about devotion to god and then promising not to. It's all very weird.

Any case, the point is that these "backwards" things are exactly the same or equivalent "backwards" things that are currenty in place for catholics.

To ignore that is just picking and choosing what is and isn't conveniently "backwards" from your point of view.

It's hypocritical to call Islam backwards and Christianity not.

Saipanne · 13-06-2016 04:14PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

He said it's an "indesputable fact"

I live in Ireland I've never seen any of it, have you?

I think Christian groups like IONA are a bigger danger to Irish people than some unknown Muslim.

Not personally, no. The forty or so irish based Muslims who joined ISIS has me concerned that there might be extremist sympathisers here. That's a reasonably logical conclusion.

Jimmy Garlic · 13-06-2016 04:14PM

Victims of Islam

<snip>

alchemist33 · 13-06-2016 04:22PM

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Ex wife said he was mentally unstable as well. Doesn't it look more like the work of a lone nut with deep issues rather than some ISIS planned plot. The nature of the attack and the target is justa bit strange. There's far higher profile places he could have hit.

That may be the case and time will tell, but it's sad how politicized this has become. If he's an ISIS operative it's the fault of those pinko leftie liberals for being soft on terror; if he's an angry homphobic loner it's the fault of the rightie conservatives for allowing homophobia and encouraging lax gun controls. Each side has so much invested in the argument that nobody can wait for an investigation to happen because they have to get their views out first.

JPNelsforearm · 13-06-2016 04:23PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Have yet to see any of this, any links?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/man-with-irish-links-listed-among-isis-fighters-1.2623124

http://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-capita-study-jihadists-syria-islam-1655655-Sep2014/

IRELAND HAS BEEN found to have the second highest per capita rate of Muslims going to fight in Syria out of a survey of 25 countries.

The Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland was contacted for comment and are yet to respond.

They did not form out of the ether, they have a support network here on the ground, tacit permission from the muslim community in Ireland

Bannasidhe · 13-06-2016 04:23PM

Saipanne wrote: »

Not personally, no. The forty or so irish based Muslims who joined ISIS has me concerned that there might be extremist sympathisers here. That's a reasonably logical conclusion.

Kinda like the 700 men in the Irish Brigade who fought for Franco during the Spanish civil war were the tip of a fascist iceberg which is how we ended up with a .... oh hang on... that didn't happen.

What happened was the approx 200 socialists who fought for the Spanish republic came back and staged a coup and the soviet of... nope... that didn't happen either.

As a matter of interest is there a difference between Irish Muslims and Irish based Muslims?

Is one lot good but the other bad or both bad or what?
What about Irish Muslims based somewhere else? Are they good or bad?

I'm asking as I have a school reunion coming up and one of my classmates converted to Islam about 20 years ago and I'm wondering if she will be obliged to kill me.

Mr. CooL ICE · 13-06-2016 04:24PM

Mod:

Jimmy Garlic, don't post links to images like that again. At the very least, a disclaimer should be included.

And to those that quoted the post ad nauseum, that doesn't help matters. Report the post and move on.

Dohnjoe · 13-06-2016 04:26PM

Pretty amazed to just read that there is a 0 day waiting list to buy an AR-15 in Florida - the automatic rifle used in this attack

I am not all super anti-gun, I can maybe understand Americans wanting pistols for home defense, or hunting rifles for hunting

but what social purpose does an AR 15 have? why no restrictions?

There are many reasons and factors involved in the attack, but surely a zero day waiting time and almost zero restrictions for buying heavy weaponry which has no genuine purpose is not helping the situation

Dohnjoe · 13-06-2016 04:26PM

Pretty amazed to just read that there is a 0 day waiting list to buy an AR-15 in Florida - the automatic rifle used in this attack

I am not all super anti-gun, I can maybe understand Americans wanting pistols for home defense, or hunting rifles for hunting

but what social purpose does an AR 15 have? why no restrictions?

There are many reasons and factors involved in the attack, but surely a zero day waiting time and almost zero restrictions for buying heavy weaponry which has no genuine purpose is not helping the situation

smash · 13-06-2016 04:27PM

seamus wrote: »

It's not a christian country. Our constitution is very confused, simultaneously bleating about devotion to god and then promising not to. It's all very weird.

Any case, the point is that these "backwards" things are exactly the same or equivalent "backwards" things that are currenty in place for catholics.

To ignore that is just picking and choosing what is and isn't conveniently "backwards" from your point of view.

It's hypocritical to call Islam backwards and Christianity not.

But I didn't say Christianity wasn't backwards. It is backwards. But not as backwards as Islam. This is shown in the fact that I can openly state as such, yet to state this in a Muslim country would have me sentenced to death.

Dyr · 13-06-2016 04:28PM

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Ex wife said he was mentally unstable as well. Doesn't it look more like the work of a lone nut with deep issues rather than some ISIS planned plot. The nature of the attack and the target is justa bit strange. There's far higher profile places he could have hit.

Most religious nutters are mentally unstable, kinda goes with the territory.

How long did the attack last? Hours? I can't get over the fact people hid in bathrooms and waited for someone to come and kill them.

RobertKK · 13-06-2016 04:28PM

A former CIA operative is saying it is clear he had gone to the Pulse nightclub before as part of his planning.
He also believes his trip to Saudi Arabia was not so innocent.

Manic Moran · 13-06-2016 04:29PM

beach_walker wrote: »

I'm quite happy to live in a society where gun ownership is rare, hard to get and limited to sensible purposes/firearms.

I'm a bit surprised at the approach of the police though. I thought in an "active shooter" situation the position was to storm the premises and neutralise the shooter, not hold back ala Columbine. I watched a bit on a training ground for US police recently for this and that seemed to be the agreed upon best approach. Yet they stood back for a few hours in this case? Not saying they're in the wrong or anything, just confused on the matter.

It's certainly a matter of some Monday-morning quarterbacking, because, you are correct, it is now standard procedure to go into an active shooter situation immediately, with whatever you happen to have. It is arguable that they held back because of the threat of hostages, but I can't imagine that they didn't get the impression that he was on a killing spree inside while they waited.

It is, however, further evidence of the fact that the police are not actually responsible for your safety. They do their best, but ultimately, you must rely upon yourself (This is not a flippant statement, it's the law of the land, as confirmed by a number of court cases).

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/12/gun-culture-american-south-second-amendment-orlando

Stupid, mis-informed article.

"in spite of the fact that there is no sporting use for them. You can’t hunt deer with an assault rifle.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ce/d5/8d/ced58d4d6d947a36079fcc9daca99c52.jpg

In some states, it's legal to use a .223, in the other states, one merely has to swap out the upper recevier to a larger calibre (One of the multiple reasons the rifle is so popular for sporting uses).

"And small animals would be vaporized from a single AR round."

If you're varminting (i.e. pest control), why is this a problem?

"There are many people who insist they “need” a gun – particularly an assault weapon – to feel safe. But unless you are a marine in Fallujah or a Chicago Swat cop, you don’t “need” anything of the sort. You want it, and not in any kind of reasonable way. It’s either because you’re a sociopath or you’re unreasonably afraid. Neither one of those states is a valid place from which to make the decision."

Or, maybe he doesn't understand the myriad advantages which makes the AR platform a recommended option for such things, varying from retention through wall penetration. But apparently ignorance is a valid place from which he can make a decision.

hidden shallows wrote: »

It's truly staggering that someone can legally purchase an AR-17 semi-automatic rifle.

The founding fathers of the US constitution did not have this in mind when the 'right to bear arms' was enshrined.

I'm pretty sure they did not envision the right to free speech on the Internet either, but what has that to do with anything? At the time, they believed that people should be able to own the same type of weapon as the military used. There were no qualifications on that.

Gatling wrote: »

It an assault rifle used designed for purely military use its not designed for hunting or home defence .

It's a tool alright a tool deigned with one job in mind killing ones enemies

Technically it was designed to hit one's enemies, with killing being a beneficial side effect. Still, that's a bit beside the point. However, the same design features which make it the go-to rifle for the military today are the same design features which make it very suitable for private use. Light. Ergonomic. Reliable. Accurate. Versatile. Affordable. Why would you -not- want any of these features on your hunting, defense, target shooting, or-whatever-other-thing-you-want-to-do-with-it, rifle?

timthumbni wrote: »

The sad and stupid thing here is that the pro gun lobby will use this as an excuse to encourage people to own more guns.

Just like they said that if the teachers at those school shootings had guns then they wouldn't have happened etc etc.

The sad and stupid thing here is that the anti-gun lobby will use this as an excuse to restrict more guns, on an irrational basis. Whereas perhaps we should instead be encouraging tolerance and respect for life. However, banning guns is a hell of a lot easier than enabling any meaningful societal change.

If you have a shooting at a school, isn't the first thing you do call the police and ask for a chap with a gun to show up?

Michah · 13-06-2016 04:30PM

The event will take place beside City Hall on Dublin’s Dame Street at 6.45pm this evening – just after the Euro 2016 football match between the Republic of Ireland and Sweden.

A book of condolence has also been opened at the Mansion House in Dublin.

There is a Vigil being held in Dublin this evening for the victims. Just a heads up.

cowboyBuilder · 13-06-2016 04:30PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

He said it's an "indesputable fact"

I live in Ireland I've never seen any of it, have you?

I think Christian groups like IONA are a bigger danger to Irish people than some unknown Muslim.

:D

Good one !

IONA are a joke, and are losing power, they won't even exist in 50 years time - they're not gonna KILL you
either for mocking them.

Radical Islam on the other hand WILL KILL you for mockery and in 50 years time there is a good chance the UK will be
a Sharia Law state along with Germany and France.

Renegade Mechanic · 13-06-2016 04:33PM

Bambi wrote: »

Most religious nutters are mentally unstable, kinda goes with the territory.

How long did the attack last? Hours? I can't get over the fact people hid in bathrooms and waited for someone to come and kill them.

Er... If you've gone down a dead end, you're not going to go back out to the gun toter. Yer going to wait for as long as it takes to get caught.

That said, I've seen texts allegedly on parents phones of messages from young people telling them to call the police and inform them that they're hiding in the bathroom.
Even though I refuse to believe that myself, it's an indication of how long the victims were there, mabye 15 minutes?

RobertKK · 13-06-2016 04:36PM

There are some people (on the radio) who think the Muslim who went to gay bars in Brussels and who attacked Paris, was going to the gay bars as part of a future attack, as in getting to know the layout of the buildings.

Bannasidhe · 13-06-2016 04:36PM

smash wrote: »

But I didn't say Christianity wasn't backwards. It is backwards. But not as backwards as Islam. This is shown in the fact that I can openly state as such, yet to state this in a Muslim country would have me sentenced to death.

Islam is about 600 years 'younger' than Christianity and is in about the same place Christianity was 600 years ago.

You know - when the Inquisition was around. And witchtrials (Protestants tended to go in for those more than Catholics) and the two main Christian denominations were killing each other for past time -thousands of Huguenots slaughtered in Paris in one night in 1572 (Catholics say 2000, Huguenots say 70,000).

Same meat different gravy as I already said.

Christianity in the West merely has had it's cough softened by revolutionary secularists and sex scandals.

Yggr of Asgard · 13-06-2016 04:36PM

Ever since the Supreme court has spun that interpretation that the 2nd Amendment provides for the right of an individual to carry arms this will continue to happen for whatever reason (religious, terrorist, crime) and on top of that giving that there are 2 versions of the text this will not be settled until a constitutional convention finally starts to modernize the constitution. But as with any hope of every getting a constitutional convention going on anything, maybe once WW III has decimated the planet or 1/2 way through a trump presidency there might be a new united states that gets it done.

I believe that a militia is important especially in these times where the Government is eroding civil liberties one by one but that does not mean that everybody should have access to guns as they think in their head, especially weapons that are not related to a possible lawful purpose.

Yes I understand that in times where the police has become more like a military I should be able to defend my property against them once they come to take the last of my liberties away but in reality that will never be anything else than a them shooting me dead, so I don’t need an assault rifle for that, a hand gun will be good enough to give them reason to shoot me dead.

Yes I understand that in some areas I might need a weapon to defend myself against crime (or terrorist) but I don’t need an assault weapon to shoot an intruder, a nice simple licensed hand gun will do the trick if I know how to use it and where to aim.

What happens now is the usual crap

Left: We need to do something
Right: Out of my cold dead hands
Left: Be reasonable, background checks…
Right: NRA says no, so nope because you know without NRA money I can’t get elected
Progressive Left: Campaign Finance Reform
Left: Oh Bernie…
Right: Socialist…

Plus what this also does is that unless Hilary finally gets out of the race (slim chance) we are going to see President Donald in November together with a full right wing majority in congress which means that I suddenly agree with the supreme court’s interpretation because I might need Assault weapons to defend my property against the roaming hordes of unemployed/poor that try to stage a revolution.

Dyr · 13-06-2016 04:37PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

I'm pretty sure they did not envision the right to free speech on the Internet either, but what has that to do with anything? At the time, they believed that people should be able to own the same type of weapon as the military used. There were no qualifications on that.

So why can't Americans own tanks, rpgs, heavy calibre support weapons and high explosives?

Take this militia as a bulwark against the army seriously or don't bother.

Bannasidhe · 13-06-2016 04:38PM

Michah wrote: »

There is a Vigil being held in Dublin this evening for the victims. Just a heads up.

Vigil on Wednesday in Daunt's Square in Cork.
6:30 to 8pm.

Also Book of Condolences open in Cork City Hall from tomorrow until 17th.

Mass shooting in Orlando Nightclub

Comments