Mass shooting in Orlando Nightclub

Grayson · 13-06-2016 01:18PM

Straight Edge Punk wrote: »

No that's the letters being used now, give it another week and an extra letter will be thrown in to accompany A.

I'll be honest, I've have no idea what the I stands for.

It might be easier to dump the initials at this point and just come up with a word.

WoolyJumper · 13-06-2016 01:18PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

That's just the thing though. As far as any of us know right now, it could be either.

I can't speak for other posters but personally I'm under no illusion that doing away with Islamic extremists will magically make hatred for the gay community disappear. I just don't see why there's such a desire to separate this into either a Homophobic attack or an Islamic extremist attack - it appears to be both, and both should be condemned.

I don't want to play down the role homophobia played in this attack. I just don't want to see the role of Islamic extremism played down either. And for clarity, I'm not one of those who wants to use this as an attack on Muslims.

I agree with you. This was an attack by Islamic extremism, which goes hand in hand with homophobia in my opinion. I'm happy to have a sensible discussion around Islamic extremism, what causes it, how can it be solved but this thread quickly went down the rabbit hole of fear mongering, hate and generalisation of all muslims. That isn't going to help anything. It's also extremely frustrating to be used as tool to spread that fear mongering.

I don't want to down play the role Islamic extremism played in this but at the same time people riding in on their high horse acting as like Islam has a monopoly on homophobia is maddening. Gay people don't need radical muslims to feel threatened, unsafe and unaccepted in their own societies. Now the very people who contribute to that are using gay people to spread their own agenda against Muslims.

SEPT 23 1989 · 13-06-2016 01:19PM

Why are Christians even being mentioned?

Bannasidhe · 13-06-2016 01:19PM

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Christianity is not being used as the vehicle for spreading terror through violent means though, is that not a notable difference? Do you think that has something to do with people's focus on Islam here?

I think that to deny Christian sponsored initiatives such as the Religious Freedom Bill in Florida and the UK issuing a travel warning is to ignore an ingrained homophobia in sections of American society and this is extremely foolish.

I doesn't matter what vehicle homophobia uses - gay people still suffer whether it's a Koran or a Bible so it's same meat different gravy as far as I am concerned - it matters that it is challenged where ever and when ever it raises it's hatefilled head.

If you think current crop of anti LGBTQI legislation are not prompting violence than you are very much mistaken.

13-06-2016 01:20PM

Funny how everyone is mentioning the fact he was a Democrat, as if it had anything to do with it at all ...

And then we have places like the Verge even trying to bring video games into it.

Yet not many people have mentioned that he purchased all the guns legally.

stoplooklisten · 13-06-2016 01:22PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Why are Christians even being mentioned?

Because they run they system. The system made this homophobic radical. Therefore Christians are to blame for this homophobic attack.

13-06-2016 01:22PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Yet not many people have mentioned that he purchased all the guns legally.

It's been mentioned pretty frequently.

Renegade Mechanic · 13-06-2016 01:22PM

Christy42 wrote: »

Good luck getting to 50. People run away from crazy people with chainsaws which have no range. You will do some damage but a with small bit of training a firearm would do a lot more damage. There is a reason you don't see many sprees with chainsaws or the like.

Damage? No. For this particular person it was death over damage. For other's it can be damage over death. It's generally damage over death.

I walk in with my trusty council spec Stihl and chaos ensues. I kill, what, five? And impart permanently life changing injuries on another five.
The other 40 aren't killed, but they flail over the rows of seats through the smoke, the darkness and the screams, fear causing their arms and legs to go like jelly and fail, letting them fall between seats repeatedly during their scramble - there's a reason it's called a nightmare.
And a much of them will have been cornered, scrambling around you while leaving others to their fate.

I believe the experience would be an order longer lasting and more damaging than death itself - if what you're after is effect. Every time they hear a small, 2-stroke engine, they'll flinch. Scooters, strimmers, leaf blowers, consaws, generators, hedge clippers, etc...

Now, we're a lot less.... "medicated" than Americans tend to be, which imo has more to do with the lack of gun violence here - than an actual lack of guns.

Bannasidhe · 13-06-2016 01:23PM

Michah wrote: »

So extreme American Christians are partially responsible for a homophobic terrorist attack carried out by a Muslim Democrat in the name of Islamic State?

You must realise how ridiculous that sounds, right?

Homophobic attack occurs in a US State that sought to introduce legislation that seriously impacted on the rights of LGBTQI people but these two things are completely unconnected.

You do realise how ridiculous that sounds?

Grayson · 13-06-2016 01:26PM

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

Incredible, are these people mentally ill ?

What do they think would happen to them if the society they lived in became bound by Islamic laws ?

Thrown off a bridge or hung ?

take your pic lads!

Islamophobia is thinking that Islam by itself is the problem. Islamophobia is thinking that Muslims are all out to get gay people. Islamophobia is wrong.
It's possible to be against Islamophobia and be be against radical Islam as well. They are not mutually exclusive. Those people in the photo are against right wing christian bigots too. They do not think that all Christians are the problem, they just think the bigoted ones are.

It's all well and good to cite ISIS and Saudi and state that Muslims hate gays but at the same time you can't ignore countries like Uganda and Russia. If someone pointed out Uganda and used it as evidence that all christian theology was bad and all Christians hate gays, you'd say they were stupid. Yet that's what happens with Islam.

stoplooklisten · 13-06-2016 01:26PM

Homophobic attack took place in US Town where hate preacher said all gays should be killed last week, but these two things are completely unconnected.

You do realise how ridiculous that sounds?

beach_walker · 13-06-2016 01:28PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Why are Christians even being mentioned?

Never let a tragedy go to waste.

Snake Plisken · 13-06-2016 01:29PM

Anyone interested in Clonskeagh mouthpiece Ali Salim take on events is on Moncrieff at 13.30 according to the show Twitter feed.

scream · 13-06-2016 01:30PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If I 'embraced' Islam I would be Muslim. Which I am not.
I have many many issues with Islam just as I have with the other two Abrahamic religions but in the same way I do not think all RC clergy are child abusers I do not think all Muslims are terrorists.

What I am is someone who grew up in a society where homosexuality was at best frowned upon and at worst a sick justification for murder.
What it always was was a thing to be feared.
What it always was was reason to discriminate, bully, intimidate.

Fear mongering and lies.

We fought every step of the way to wrench first legal protection and then equality and we haven't forgotten who we had to fight. It was priests preaching from the pulpit or a pope who claimed if we got married it would lead to the destruction of humanity.

And now you are surprised that the LGBTI Community recognise fear mongering and lies when we see them and say not in our name?

Guess you had to have lived it to understand.

As I said earlier, you really don't recognise it. Bear in mind that the LGBT community don't have a monopoly on discrimination.

RDM_83 again · 13-06-2016 01:32PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Homophobic attack occurs in a US State that sought to introduce legislation that seriously impacted on the rights of LGBTQI people but these two things are completely unconnected.

You do realise how ridiculous that sounds?

Wasn't the attack on a Gay club, isn't the bills being passed in Florida relating to Trans-persons.
Just because you lump them all together under LBTQI2 or whatever doesn't mean they are the same thing.

You know where has a state subsidized scheme helping people to transition and carries numerous sex change op's.

Iran

You know why Iran, which is to some extent a theocracy can and in the past has sentenced gay people to death can do this.
Because they aren't the same thing and they aren't the same thing according to at least a significant group of Islamic scholars (guessing killer was Sunni though)

Superhorse · 13-06-2016 01:32PM

Trump talking on awful amount of sense on CNN right now.

Grayson · 13-06-2016 01:33PM

Superhorse wrote: »

Trump talking on awful amount of sense on CNN right now.

He's reading Hilary's tweets?

Bannasidhe · 13-06-2016 01:35PM

scream wrote: »

As I said earlier, you really don't recognise it. Bear in mind that the LGBT community don't have a monopoly on discrimination.

Firstly. I would appreciate it if you don't insult me by deciding what my life experience has taught me.

Secondly. Never said they did. Far from it. But in this instance it was homophobic hate that lead to mass murder.

Claiming that only the LGBTQI community suffers discrimination is as ridiculous as saying only Muslim hate gays.

SEPT 23 1989 · 13-06-2016 01:36PM

.

Michah · 13-06-2016 01:36PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Homophobic attack occurs in a US State that sought to introduce legislation that seriously impacted on the rights of LGBTQI people but these two things are completely unconnected.

You do realise how ridiculous that sounds?

An Islamic terrorist organisation releases a kill-list of Florida residents via encrypted channels and calls for lone wolves in Florida to act. A Muslim guy who's been on an FBI terrorism watchlist, and who's father is an open supporter of the Taliban, proceeds to kill people in response. He declares that he's committing this act in allegiance with the Islamic terrorist organisation who have been calling for the attacks. He Allahu Ackbars throughout and martyrs himself at the end. The Islamic terrorist organisation commends his martyrdom and reaffirms that the organisation is responsible for the attack.

But it's Christians to blame.

Grayson · 13-06-2016 01:39PM

I will say this much. Radical Christians and radical Muslims have an awful lot in common.

smash · 13-06-2016 01:39PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Claiming that only the LGBTQI community suffers discrimination is as ridiculous as saying only Muslim hate gays.

But we can add a few more letters and cover all who are discriminated against

Bannasidhe · 13-06-2016 01:40PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Wasn't the attack on a Gay club, isn't the bills being passed in Florida relating to Trans-persons.
Just because you lump them all together under LBTQI2 or whatever doesn't mean they are the same thing.

You know where has a state subsidized scheme helping people to transition and carries numerous sex change op's.

Iran

You know why Iran, which is to some extent a theocracy can and in the past has sentenced gay people to death can do this.
Because they aren't the same thing and they aren't the same thing according to at least a significant group of Islamic scholars (guessing killer was Sunni though)

Take a wild guess what the T stands for.

Iran = whataboutry.

We are talking about The United States of America.
The leader of the 'Free' World.
Guardian of Democracy.
Home of the Civil Rights movement.

Do you deny the existence of anti LGBTQI legislation in the U.S.?

stoplooklisten · 13-06-2016 01:41PM

The father of Florida gunman Omar Mateen has issued a video statement where he says it was wrong of his son to take it upon himself to "punish" the gay community.

"God himself will punish those involved in homosexuality,” Seddique Mateen said in the statement, which was posted on Facebook and uncovered by the Washington Post.

“This is not for the servants [of God]," he adds.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/13/orlando-shooting-isil-wages-war-on-gays-in-the-west-after-omar-m/

cowboyBuilder · 13-06-2016 01:41PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Why are Christians even being mentioned?

Because its an evil evil tyranny of fascism and hate mongering.

If only it could be as peaceful and tolerant as Islam.

dissed doc · 13-06-2016 01:41PM

Michah wrote: »

An Islamic terrorist organisation releases a kill-list of Florida residents via encrypted channels and calls for lone wolves in Florida to act. A Muslim guy who's been on an FBI terrorism watchlist, and who's father is an open supporter of the Taliban, proceeds to kill people in response. He declares that he's committing this act in allegiance with the Islamic terrorist organisation who have been calling for the attacks. He Allahu Ackbars throughout and martyrs himself at the end. The Islamic terrorist organisation commends his martyrdom and reaffirms that the organisation is responsible for the attack.

But it's Christians to blame.

White Christians, just FYI.

Superhorse · 13-06-2016 01:42PM

Ali Salim talking some amount of bullcrap right now on newstalk.

Gatling · 13-06-2016 01:42PM

Grayson wrote: »

He's reading Hilary's tweets?

He's about his sexist, racist, self again

SEPT 23 1989 · 13-06-2016 01:44PM

Superhorse wrote: »

Ali Salim talking some amount of bullcrap right now on newstalk.

He believes gays can be cured

Grayson · 13-06-2016 01:45PM

stoplooklisten wrote: »

The father of Florida gunman Omar Mateen has issued a video statement where he says it was wrong of his son to take it upon himself to "punish" the gay community.

"God himself will punish those involved in homosexuality,” Seddique Mateen said in the statement, which was posted on Facebook and uncovered by the Washington Post.

“This is not for the servants [of God]," he adds.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/13/orlando-shooting-isil-wages-war-on-gays-in-the-west-after-omar-m/

That's the same line the catholic church has used for years.

Mass shooting in Orlando Nightclub

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