Mass shooting in Orlando Nightclub

Grayson · 13-06-2016 12:55AM

Deleted User wrote: »

The refusal to confront reality is going to destroy western liberal values.

I find it ironic that the most ardent defenders of muslims are the ones who will suffer the most from sharia law if and when it ever does come to the West.

I hearby make this solemn pledge, if this country is ever under sharia law I will storm the gates of the nearest mosque in a suicide vest whilst wearing a spongebob costume.....

.....because that's never, ever going to happen. How paranoid are you?

Lyaiera · 13-06-2016 12:55AM

I said what Bannasidhe is saying now way earlier in this thread. She's just much better at it. America is a country that doesn't think the millions of LGBT people across the country deserve the right not to be discriminated against. They have voted against such measures regularly. That's pretty awful.

Repeated Irish governments didn't and still don't think women should have control of their own bodies. The Catholic church play a large part in that. These women have to travel abroad, or risk being prosecuted for taking control of their reproductive rights. That's pretty awful.

I wouldn't want to live in a lot of Arab countries. But do you really think a lot of people in this country and the US are angry at radical islam, or their own governments mistreating them? Which do you think has a bigger effect on their day to day lives?

ISIS are ****ing horrendous people. The western world isn't rosey though.

stoplooklisten · 13-06-2016 12:56AM

Deleted User wrote: »

The refusal to confront reality is going to destroy western liberal values.

I find it ironic that the most ardent defenders of muslims are the ones who will suffer the most from sharia law if and when it ever does come to the West.

When might be sooner than you think!
Women in West Yorkshire told to contact Sharia council instead of police

Jimmy Garlic · 13-06-2016 12:56AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You don't believe hate speech encouraged hate crimes?

Of course it does. Did you not watch the video of the imam in Florida calling for homosexuals to be put to death? 50 gay people were just murdered by an Islamic extremist and here you are pointing your finger at Christians and saying ridiculous things like this -

In the U.S. a culture of murderous homophobia is being fostered and not by any Imams or Mullahs but by Christian pastors.

There are large segments of Islam that clearly have it in for your community and here you are in a state of total denial about it. A very vulnerable position to be in.

13-06-2016 12:57AM

Grayson wrote: »

I never said he was persecuted. I said that muslims in general are, just like gay people.

When I was younger I knew plenty of people that believed most gay people were perverts and would molest children because some men have molested children. I heard "sure they're not all bad, but would you want to live next door to one if you had kids" That kind of attitude still exists in the US with a lot of people.

Likewise I hear that muslims love FGM because some muslims have done it. Muslims are a terrorist risk because some have done it. "sure they're not all bad, but would you want one of them in your street/town/country"

Let's call this attitude what it is. Wether it's against muslims, or LGBTQ, or jews or whoever. It's bigotry, pure and simple bigotry.

Don't you think murdering 50 people because they are LGBT and pledging allegiance to ISIS is a lot more serious than someone's thoughts about their neighbours?

Matt Markinson · 13-06-2016 12:57AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

As a middle aged Irish lesbian I have heard more intolerant, homophobic, misogynistic and downright violently aggressive BS from Christians than I have ever encountered from Muslims -and yes, I have lived in multicultural areas and worked with Muslims. Is Christian intolerant, homophobic, misogynistic and downright violently aggressive B.S. compatible with Western Liberal values or should we deport them too?

In the U.S. a culture of murderous homophobia is being fostered and not by any Imams or Mullahs but by Christian pastors. Christian Americans have taken to twitter to rejoice at the deaths.

Don't you dare use the LGBT community - my community - as justification for your islamophobia.

Bigotry is bigotry. It isn't the preserve of one religion.

To me this is yet another classic example of just another form of extremist using the murders to preach even more hatred and false claims against another entire group of society. Two sides of the same coin.

Bannasidhe · 13-06-2016 12:57AM

Deleted User wrote: »

The refusal to confront reality is going to destroy western liberal values.

I find it ironic that the most ardent defenders of muslims are the ones who will suffer the most from sharia law if and when it ever does come to the West.

I find it ironic how many Christian homophobes are suddenly concerned about the gays.

I find it ironic that the way to preserve western liberal values is apparently to abandon them.

Funny old world eh.

Sweetemotion · 13-06-2016 12:57AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

It occurred to me that in an increasing hostile atmosphere towards LGBTI people in the U.S. foster by right-wing Christian fundamentalists that a religious nutter who is affiliated with a group of murderous Islamic religious nutters decided to murder people for being LGBTI.

It occurred to me that people would use this is attack Islam - all of Islam - while remaining silent about Christianity's role in the whole sorry mess.

It occurred to me that people who would be wondering why 'the gays' need their own clubs and parades and wouldn't like the idea of gay people adopting because you know yourself like... children.... will use these murders as an excuse to attack Islam but will shy away from discussion of homophobia because sure in the West we don't have homophobia we have Marriage Equality - except where we have bathroom laws obvs.

It occurred to me that right-wing Christians are going to be mightily conflicted by these murders - and so Twitter has shown.

Here is a crazy idea - let's talk about homophobia.

Victim...

You keep thinking off all those things while a Iman is throwing you off a roof.

lawlolawl · 13-06-2016 12:58AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Here is a crazy idea - let's talk about homophobia.

Homophobia is a widely dying trend. Gay/bi/whatever people are becoming widely accepted by everyone other than religious headcases (as has always been the case).

Sorry to inform you that you are losing your special snowflake status

I'm bi and no one cares any more.

crashadder · 13-06-2016 12:58AM

Its 2016 and people still killing each other over some religious stuff. I really wish there was an easier way for everyone to understand that all religions are just made up by humans to control the community at that time. its amazing how they have survived centuries. I dont understand why nobody whether muslim or jew or whatever never questions the fact that there has been no updates to any religion for over 1400 years. ? There are so many other stuff that needs explanation as well . But Islam for instance is based mostly on fear. So they dont question. They just follow. You might encounter muslims trying to convince you that it is not but trust me i am from a country where vast majority of the population is Muslim and you need to read quran to understand Islam for what it really is. No wonder why Atheism is more popular now ever in my country. The first verse of the Quran is 'Read'. I highly doubt anyone follows that instruction. Otherwise people would have noticed the inconsistencies throughout the book. I have also read Bible and i didnt quite like it either. I dont want to really bash Islam or any other religion. all i want is for people to stop killing each other for them. And by the way you would hear people saying after a terrorist attack that it isnt the real Islam. Ask them a simple question. What is real Islam and where can you find it ? Which country ? and please ask them about the verse NEBE 33 while you are at it. :-) my favorite one.

RobertKK · 13-06-2016 01:02AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

It occurred to me that in an increasing hostile atmosphere towards LGBTI people in the U.S. foster by right-wing Christian fundamentalists that a religious nutter who is affiliated with a group of murderous Islamic religious nutters decided to murder people for being LGBTI.

It occurred to me that people would use this is attack Islam - all of Islam - while remaining silent about Christianity's role in the whole sorry mess.

It occurred to me that people who would be wondering why 'the gays' need their own clubs and parades and wouldn't like the idea of gay people adopting because you know yourself like... children.... will use these murders as an excuse to attack Islam but will shy away from discussion of homophobia because sure in the West we don't have homophobia we have Marriage Equality - except where we have bathroom laws obvs.

It occurred to me that right-wing Christians are going to be mightily conflicted by these murders - and so Twitter has shown.

Here is a crazy idea - let's talk about homophobia.

Why not homophobic Islamic extremists who shoots over 100 people at a gay nightclub?

Its dead Jim · 13-06-2016 01:02AM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Of course it does. Did you not watch the video of the imam in Florida calling for homosexuals to be put to death? 50 gay people were just murdered by an Islamic extremist and here you are pointing your finger at Christians and saying ridiculous things like this -

There are large segments of Islam that clearly have it in for your community and here you are in a state of total denial about it. A very vulnerable position to be in.

I don't see where she is denying that Islam isn't fond of LGBT people to say the least. What she is saying that those who have treated her poorly for being a lesbian weren't Muslim. Who is it that brings in and supports anti LGBT laws in western countries?

This is a common problem, people seem to think the only 2 options are the person thinks all Muslims are a threat or you think they are all completely innocent. Most people would be somewhere in between.

Grayson · 13-06-2016 01:02AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't you think murdering 50 people because they are LGBT and pledging allegiance to ISIS is a lot more serious than someone's thoughts about their neighbours?

Great whatabouttery there.

What happened in florida is horrible. It's horrific. It's terrifying. I never said it wasn't.

I'm saying that the actions on a deranged psycho doesn't mean that islam is evil or that muslims in general are a problem.

When you use one (admittedly horrific crime) to try and justify your hatred of muslims that's wrong. You are trying to use a tragedy to score points that will justify your warped, paranoid view of reality.

What happened in florida is a homophobic crime. Homophobia that is rooted in the same type of bigotry at islamaphobia.

rjpf1980 · 13-06-2016 01:03AM

Grayson wrote: »

I never said he was persecuted. I said that muslims in general are, just like gay people.

When I was younger I knew plenty of people that believed most gay people were perverts and would molest children because some men have molested children. I heard "sure they're not all bad, but would you want to live next door to one if you had kids" That kind of attitude still exists in the US with a lot of people.

Likewise I hear that muslims love FGM because some muslims have done it. Muslims are a terrorist risk because some have done it. "sure they're not all bad, but would you want one of them in your street/town/country"

Let's call this attitude what it is. Wether it's against muslims, or LGBTQ, or jews or whoever. It's bigotry, pure and simple bigotry.

Some Muslims have done FGM?

At study in 2005 showed that 95% of Egyptian women had undergone FGM.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL30168862

Since 2001 there have been thousands of terrorists attacks which have killed hundreds of thousands of people world wide.

Wars have exploded since 2001.

What are their commons links?

The overwhelming majority involve Islam.

How many LGBT or Jewish terrorist attacks have there been on Muslims in the past year?

How many attacks have there been on Jews and LGBT people this year by Muslims?

It is pretty clear that our problem is with Islam, a deeply violent intolerant faith followed by millions of dangerously intolerant ignorant and violent followers.

Minderbinder · 13-06-2016 01:04AM

I think it's quite clear this is an attack on gay people and the attacker has no direct connection to isis. they don't tend to work alone. i also agree that gay people are as much a target for christians as they are for muslims, especially in America where gun violence is not monopolized by any one section of society.

NikoTopps · 13-06-2016 01:04AM

I was reading some articles about it and some guy messaged his mother saying "I love you mommy" and as of yet he hasn't been confirmed amongst the living, or the deceased.

It's really heart wrenching stuff and RIP to all those lost.

13-06-2016 01:04AM

9/11, 7/7, Madrid, Boston, Mumbai, Toronto, Paris, Sydney, Cologne, San Bernardino, Rotherham. Anyone know what the common thread is?

But no, it's Christians are the threat to liberal values. :rolleyes:

Sweetemotion · 13-06-2016 01:04AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Why not homophobic Islamic extremists who shoots over 100 people at a gay nightclub?

Doesn't suit their agenda

White straight male's is the evil

Its dead Jim · 13-06-2016 01:04AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Why not homophobic Islamic extremists who shoots over 100 people at a gay nightclub?

Robert, I used to be a member around the time of the same sex marriage referendum. I remember many people who had strong views in a certain manner. Your name sticks out for me and it wasn't for being in favour of rights for gay people. There's no point pretending you have any concern about homophobia.

unseenfootage · 13-06-2016 01:05AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't you think murdering 50 people because they are LGBT and pledging allegiance to ISIS is a lot more serious than someone's thoughts about their neighbours?

This attack was also politically motivated. Ito probably has to do with the war in the middle east too. I think he chose a LGBT club for two reasons
1) Because it is a soft target.
2) To capitalize on the tensions about the transgender toilet issue.

stoplooklisten · 13-06-2016 01:05AM

Minderbinder wrote: »

I think it's quite clear this is an attack on gay people and the attacker has no direct connection to isis. they don't tend to work alone. i also agree that gay people are as much a target for christians as they are for muslims, especially in America where gun violence is not monopolized by any one section of society.

why did the FBI investigate him twice? For being homophobic?

Bannasidhe · 13-06-2016 01:05AM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Of course it does. Did you not watch the video of the imam in Florida calling for homosexuals to be put to death? 50 gay people were just murdered by an Islamic extremist and here you are pointing your finger at Christians and saying ridiculous things like this -

There are large segments of Islam that clearly have it in for your community and here you are in a state of total denial about it. A very vulnerable position to be in.

Gosh.

We haven't even met and yet you can tell me what I think.
How marvellous.
But incorrect as I never said Fundamentalist Islam isn't a threat. I merely stated that fundamentalist Christianity is equally a threat.

Fundamentalist religions of all kinds is a threat and I am fully aware of that because it's my life and I live it every day -unlike you.

You seem blind to the large segments of the Christian community that have it in for my community and how many of those are in positions of political power not just in places like Uganda but in the U.S.

I don't have the luxury of such a blinkered world view.

Annasopra · 13-06-2016 01:05AM

Well done Owen Jones

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEgd9q8ugs4

Grayson · 13-06-2016 01:05AM

crashadder wrote: »

Its 2016 and people still killing each other over some religious stuff. I really wish there was an easier way for everyone to understand that all religions are just made up by humans to control the community at that time. its amazing how they have survived centuries. I dont understand why nobody whether muslim or jew or whatever never questions the fact that there has been no updates to any religion for over 1400 years. ? There are so many other stuff that needs explanation as well . But Islam for instance is based mostly on fear. So they dont question. They just follow. You might encounter muslims trying to convince you that it is not but trust me i am from a country where vast majority of the population is Muslim and you need to read quran to understand Islam for what it really is. No wonder why Atheism is more popular now ever in my country. The first verse of the Quran is 'Read'. I highly doubt anyone follows that instruction. Otherwise people would have noticed the inconsistencies throughout the book. I have also read Bible and i didnt quite like it either. I dont want to really bash Islam or any other religion. all i want is for people to stop killing each other for them. And by the way you would hear people saying after a terrorist attack that it isnt the real Islam. Ask them a simple question. What is real Islam and where can you find it ? Which country ? and please ask them about the verse NEBE 33 while you are at it. :-) my favorite one.

Religion is such a god awful (no pun intended) collection of mismatched and inconsistent teachings that anyone from a jewish/christian/muslim background could justify todays tragedy by referring to their holy book.

I think that's what a lot of these things are. Disturbed people who go looking for something that justify's their own warped mindset.

rjpf1980 · 13-06-2016 01:06AM

Grayson wrote: »

Homophobia that is rooted in the same type of bigotry at islamaphobia.

Are you for real?

Despising an ignorant backward hateful religion that preaches death to homosexuals is on an equal footing with hatred of gays? :mad:

Sweetemotion · 13-06-2016 01:06AM

Minderbinder wrote: »

I think it's quite clear this is an attack on gay people and the attacker has no direct connection to isis. they don't tend to work alone. i also agree that gay people are as much a target for christians as they are for muslims, especially in America where gun violence is not monopolized by any one section of society.

ISIS claimed responsibility for this attack.

WoolyJumper · 13-06-2016 01:06AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I find it ironic how many Christian homophobes are suddenly concerned about the gays.

I find it ironic that the way to preserve western liberal values is apparently to abandon them.

Funny old world eh.

It's the hypocrisy that gets me. And you don't have to look past this forum to see it. Using not only gay people but the deaths of gay people to push their own agenda.

Bannasidhe · 13-06-2016 01:08AM

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Victim...

You keep thinking off all those things while a Iman is throwing you off a roof.

Really?

Has there been an outbreak of Somalian models throwing people off roofs in Ireland then?

Gatling · 13-06-2016 01:08AM

Sweetemotion wrote: »

ISIS claimed responsibility for this attack.

Of course they did ,

Means **** all though ,

13-06-2016 01:08AM

Grayson wrote: »

Great whatabouttery there.

What happened in florida is horrible. It's horrific. It's terrifying. I never said it wasn't.

I'm saying that the actions on a deranged psycho doesn't mean that islam is evil or that muslims in general are a problem.

When you use one (admittedly horrific crime) to try and justify your hatred of muslims that's wrong. You are trying to use a tragedy to score points that will justify your warped, paranoid view of reality.

What happened in florida is a homophobic crime. Homophobia that is rooted in the same type of bigotry at islamaphobia.

I'm not saying that islam is inherently evil or that muslims in general are a problem.

I am saying that there is something in the way the religion is taught, and there is a significant minority of muslims who despise Western values and would, if they had a choice, implement Islamic law. Within this minority there is another significant minority who will violently attack innocent people in the name of their religion.

Mass shooting in Orlando Nightclub

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