Mass shooting in Orlando Nightclub

rjpf1980 · 12-06-2016 09:41PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Kicked out to where? What about radical Christians? Should they be re-educated or deported too?

If radical Muslims, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Amish, Scientologists or whatever hold extremist views that advocate the overthrow of democratic society and the creation of a theocratic state they need to get out. They have lots of other countries to choose from.

Timberrrrrrrr · 12-06-2016 09:41PM

stefanovich wrote: »

Unfortunately I think there is no other option now but to restrict the rights of muslims in the US. No access to guns. All mosques should be under video and audio surveillance. Any contact with extremists equals mandatory imprisonment. These things do not happen without the support and silence of the community.

All Muslims?

Matt Markinson · 12-06-2016 09:41PM

stefanovich wrote: »

Unfortunately I think there is no other option now but to restrict the rights of Irish in the UK. All Irish pubs should be under video and audio surveillance. Any contact with Irish extremists equals mandatory imprisonment. These things do not happen without the support and silence of the Irish community.

fyp, heard it all before from right wing nutters in the UK when the cowards that are the IRA were busy murdering english women and kids under the disguise of Irish nationalism

The Backwards Man · 12-06-2016 09:42PM

stefanovich wrote: »

It's called quarantine.

Comparing humans to animals now?

Timberrrrrrrr · 12-06-2016 09:42PM

stefanovich wrote: »

It's called quarantine.

Sure maybe we could ship them off to camps, And maybe make them wear a symbol on their clothes so ordinary god fearing Americans can see that they are Mooslims?

rjpf1980 · 12-06-2016 09:42PM

20Cent wrote: »

how would you find out their views?

How do you think? When they express them on line, in print, in public, at work and it is verified under interview and interrogation etc etc.

RDM_83 again · 12-06-2016 09:43PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Last nights shooter was BORN in the US and had lived there for 29 years. If he could be radicalised then exactly how much of this "assimilation" that you propose should people have to go through? Do you suggest arresting EVERY person in the states who is of Muslim descent and taking them off to camps for re-education?

Very true but the thing is thats sometimes strange is that sometimes it seems that there is greater awareness and concern about the big issue of Islamic extremism in western Muslim communities thats thats denied by some Liberals so they can presumably appear open minded.

I used to live beside what I thought was just a normal mosque in London, if I said as a white irish Catholic that there was likely a problem with extremism and integration in the area I would probably be told I was being a Right Wing idiot by some of the posters here.
Thing I found out later that the Mosque was actually ran by Minhaj-ul-Quran, a group thats based around anti-extremism and invites community police in to hold talks, you know why they do that and they are in the area they are, because they are aware that there is likely an extremism and lack of integration problem in the area.

stefanovich · 12-06-2016 09:43PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

It's called discriminating against a massive the actions of a few. Aside from that being a ****ty thing to do, it's going to do nothing but increase terrorism, not reduce it.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

All Muslims?

Killing 50 people in cold blood is a ****ty thing to do also. I really fear we are not getting the help from their communities because they feel a religious obligation to remain silent.

Jimmy Garlic · 12-06-2016 09:44PM

Polo_Mint wrote: »

But you have said that All Muslims consent to Islamic Terrorist Attacks.

You also say the Christians are also not peaceful.

No religion is peaceful. Even ones commonly thought to be such as Buddhism have a nasty side. Some are worse than others. In terms of violence and intolerance Islam is by far the worst.

So im guessing you are a Christian, Do you give consent to bombing hospitals and mosques in the middle east.

I'm not a Christian. I condemn all violence that is not self defence. Actions taken in the ME and elsewhere have empowered extremism.

The way you painted all muslims with the same brush.

Do you paint all Christians with the same brush?

I am not painting them all with the same brush. I am merely pointing out that there no mass movement within Islam that a, tries to reform it and b, condemns extremism.

JP Liz V1 · 12-06-2016 09:45PM

RIP the 50 victims so sad

Timberrrrrrrr · 12-06-2016 09:45PM

stefanovich wrote: »

Killing 50 people in cold blood is a ****ty thing to do also. I really fear we are not getting the help from their communities because they feel a religious obligation to remain silent.

Is there any evidence that anyone (other than the US authorities) Knew that this guy was a potential threat?

Matt Markinson · 12-06-2016 09:46PM

stefanovich wrote: »

Killing 50 people in cold blood is a ****ty thing to do also. I really fear we are not getting the help from their communities because they feel a religious obligation to remain silent.

The exact same thing used to be said about Irish people in the UK, by those with an anti-Irish agenda when the cowardly IRA were murdering innocent people in England.

Billy86 · 12-06-2016 09:46PM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Absolutely not, but it has moved on from it's dark age origins, Islam hasn't.

Tell that to Robert Dear who bombed the Planned Parenthood facility, Bill O'Reilly who murdered abortion doctor George Tiller, the Lords Resistance Army who murdered, mutilating and displacing millions in the '90s and '00s (you might have heard of them as 'African Warlords' and not 'Christian terrorist'), Eric Rudolph who committed the 1996 Olympic bombings, The Army of God who call for the deaths of abbortion doctors (a few of the names above have links to them), and so on... all in the name of Christ.

We're just going to brush them under the carpet... right? I mean it's been working out fine for decades, so why stop doing it now?

Samaris · 12-06-2016 09:47PM

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

I am not painting them all with the same brush. I am merely pointing out that there no mass movement within Islam that a, tries to reform it and b, condemns extremism.

Ah, there you are again! Did you read that post I put in of all the organisations within Islam that condemned extremism? Or are you figuring out how to move the goalposts?

White Ninja · 12-06-2016 09:48PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Is there any evidence that anyone (other than the US authorities) Knew that this guy was a potential threat?

I assume US authorities were investigating him because of intercepted communications, he had to be talking to somebody about radical views.

20Cent · 12-06-2016 09:48PM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

How do you think? When they express them on line, in print, in public, at work and it is verified under interview and interrogation etc etc.

Your cunning plan could be countered by terrorists using the ancient technique called lying.

Billy86 · 12-06-2016 09:49PM

stefanovich wrote: »

What nonsense. Most normal Irish people condemned the IRA attacks in the UK.

Links for over 1.5mn people doing so please?

Don't bother actually, because if you do have them, I'll just label them half hearted and not good enough condemnations.

Snake Plisken · 12-06-2016 09:49PM

Jesus if this had happened say in the George last night you would still have the same useful idiots on here defending the followers of Islam! As for oh they are not all bad, well they are if they don't weed out mosques where extremism grows. where women have to dress in a tent wear headscarfs you cannot b LGBT or leave the religion, and you follow a book where the chief protagonist married a 9 year old child, but hey that's fine live and let live until we end up like Sweden with no go zones. but hey that does't fit with the views of the boards.ie defenders of Islam on here!

Timberrrrrrrr · 12-06-2016 09:49PM

White Ninja wrote: »

I assume US authorities were investigating him because of intercepted communications, he had to be talking to somebody about radical views.

That "someone" could have been in any country in the world though.

stefanovich · 12-06-2016 09:49PM

Matt Markinson wrote: »

The exact same thing used to be said about Irish people in the UK, by those with an anti-Irish agenda when the cowardly IRA were murdering innocent people in England.

Not true.

end of the road · 12-06-2016 09:49PM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

He was identified as an Islamic extremist by law enforcement years ago but wasn't under surveillance according to the authorities.

Anyone with openly Islamic extremist beliefs who cannot be persuaded to moderate their views should be kicked out of the country.

oh? and i suppose that will only apply to muslims yes, just because? anyone else is exempt? so, where should these muslims be thrown out to exactly, considering they would have actually been born in the country?

stefanovich wrote: »

The problem we need to solve is Islamic extremism. This is not caused by access to guns.

no but restricting access to guns (which would help with a hell of a lot of problems) would limit some bit what islamic extremists can do.

rjpf1980 wrote: »

Kick them out. If they resist use force.

great, i suppose by force you mean "slaughter" . and they talk about islamic extremists.

Snake Plisken · 12-06-2016 09:50PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Tell that to Robert Dear who bombed the Planned Parenthood facility, Bill O'Reilly who murdered abortion doctor George Tiller, the Lords Resistance Army who murdered, mutilating and displacing millions in the '90s and '00s (you might have heard of them as 'African Warlords' and not 'Christian terrorist'), Eric Rudolph who committed the 1996 Olympic bombings, The Army of God who call for the deaths of abbortion doctors (a few of the names above have links to them), and so on... all in the name of Christ.

We're just going to brush them under the carpet... right? I mean it's been working out fine for decades, so why stop doing it now?

Clutching at straws billy? Sad really

Matt Markinson · 12-06-2016 09:51PM

stefanovich wrote: »

What nonsense. Most normal Irish people condemned the IRA attacks in the UK.

Not according to people exactly like you in the UK at the time, and actually Irish people who condemed the IRA attacks were not publised that often, a) because they feared reprisals themselves from the republican nutters and their supporters, and b) it didn't fit the agenda of people like you in the uk.

stefanovich wrote: »

So the problem is guns rather than the ideology... There is something very sick and evil growing in Irish communities in the UK. The so called minority of Irish extremists is growing. Why are you an apologist for these people?

FYP for you again . . reminds me of the 80's

Cienciano · 12-06-2016 09:54PM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

Most can be assimilated and changed through exposure to education and economic opportunity and our superior enlightened values. The rest have to be forced.

How would you do this. Police knock at the door of the entire population? You think an extremist might just lie?

rjpf1980 wrote: »

Kick them out. If they resist use force.

How. I'd like to hear about how you'd go about doing this

stefanovich wrote: »

Unfortunately I think there is no other option now but to restrict the rights of muslims in the US. No access to guns. All mosques should be under video and audio surveillance. Any contact with extremists equals mandatory imprisonment. These things do not happen without the support and silence of the community.

No access to guns? How would you restrict it? "are you a Muslim?". "No". "Ok, here's your gun".
Brilliant. This guy was already on a watch list, so were gu6in Belgium. Fat lot of good that did

Ally Dick · 12-06-2016 09:55PM

Polo_Mint wrote: »

How do you keep out citizens of your own country

They weren't always. A decision was made at some stage to let them in p.s. unless they were born and bred in your country !

stoplooklisten · 12-06-2016 09:55PM

someone posted a video earlier of a iman speaker in the area saying "killing homosexuals is the compassionate thing to do..."

a first step would be to start challenging these guys and their outrageous views. Drop the accusations of islamophobia and properly challenge them, their views and their followers.

stefanovich · 12-06-2016 09:55PM

Matt Markinson wrote: »

Not according to people exactly like you in the UK at the time

FYP for you again . . reminds me of the 80's

Please don't misquote me. I lived through the 80s too you know both in the UK and here and it is incomparable to what we are seeing today in Islam. The sheer numbers of terrorist sympathisers.

Matt Markinson · 12-06-2016 09:56PM

stefanovich wrote: »

Please don't misquote me. I lived through the 80s too you know both in the UK and here and it is incomparable to what we are seeing today in Islam. The sheer numbers of terrorist sympathisers.

No it's not, I heard exactly the same claims your making being made against the Irish in the UK.

rjpf1980 · 12-06-2016 09:56PM

It is clear that many of the posters on this thread deny that 1) Islam is clearly the most violent and problematic religion in the world today 2) Islamic inspired extremist terrorism is clearly the greatest security threat to the free world at the moment 3) drastic options all of them bad and all of them draconian are going to have implemented to fight, defeat and crush Islamic extremism in all its forms - religious, political and terrorist to protect the free world.

1)Despite all the overwhelming evident these posters try to compare Islam, the most severe and intolerant religion anywhere, with reformed Christianity which bears no relation to its medieval barbaric ancestor and other faiths which have reformed as the modern world emerged. Islam is as barbaric and violent and intolerant as it ever was during its dark history. Moderate Islam is better than extremist Islam but it is still as utterly vile and oppressive and ignorant as the right wing strains of Christianity and Judaism that persist in thankfully small minority groups in the West.

2) Thousands upon thousands of Islamic extremist terrorist attacks have been perpetrated since 9/11 killing hundreds of thousands of people worldwide. War after war after war has erupted across the Muslim world as various hideous sects of Islam fight each other and attack non-Muslims on the fringes of their realm and direct attacks against the West.

3) Extremist Islamic terrorist attacks mean restrictions on travel and movement for all of us, military expenditure, wars and casualties both military and civilian if groups like ISIS and the Taliban and Al-Qaeda and Hamas and many others rise to power and control territory and have to be confronted and destroyed. Individuals who hold extremist religious beliefs have to be stopped full stop. There can no longer be any toleration for this death cult. It has to go.

Billy86 · 12-06-2016 09:57PM

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Clutching at straws billy? Sad really

Wow! Great job refuting those Christian terrorism examples, you really showed me! Fact is, you know you can't argue with it so the above it all you can say.

I can't help but notice you never got back to me about your claims to wanting to see an Imam just once make a comment about cherishing and accepting gay people. You must have missed the post because I know you wouldn't willfully ignore it and pretend to have never seen it next time you want to make the same ignorant comment. Such a dishonest and scummy thing would definitely not be in your nature, so here you are again. https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/imam-daayiee-abdullah-welcomes-gay-muslims-to-worship-marry/2013/04/17/3ebcab3a-a5db-11e2-b029-8fb7e977ef71_story.html

Mass shooting in Orlando Nightclub

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