Mass shooting in Orlando Nightclub

JPNelsforearm · 12-06-2016 07:59PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Actually while in the US, Muslims are over represented at 6% of all terrorist acts since (if I recall) 1980 despite making up just 1% of the population the reverse is true in Europe with them making up 6% of the population and contributing to less than 2% (might have been less than 1%) of terrorist attacks.

But all of that is irrelevant to the point you made that I was addressing, you wanted to claim that the entire religion of Islam is inherently bad/wrong and not just the extremists, specifically because of what the extremists do. For me, there is a very clear flaw in that argument which should be apparent in reading that sentence, but if you wish to still subscribe to it then you must apply that to more or less all major organised religions (any religion that someone has declared a terrorist act in the name of) - including Christians, Jews and Buddhists.

Remove territorial/independence from your European stats on "terrorism", totally different picture. An entirely imported problem.

Matt Markinson · 12-06-2016 08:01PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

I just took my routine pistol qualification with the Army last weekend. Scored 'Expert', the top ranking. I occasionally go to nightclubs. I can't see how the presence of anyone similarly situated to me (and there are plenty of us) would have made matters much worse than hanging around waiting to see if we'd all be shot/blown up etc.

And tell us how much do other service personnel drink while stroking their guns in nightclubs ? What happens when one of these wanna be rambo's receives any perceived personal slight in a niteclub ? Just as many of these murdering psycho's in the past have also been military personal and 100% legal civilian firearms holders. As a non civilian firearms instructor, I firmly believe firearms have absolutely no place being carried in public / social events by off duty personal or civilians in any country that aspires to be a peaceful modern society. Gun love / worship / wanna be gun hero disease is a very very serious problem in the USA, it's even ingrained and idolised in their culture, televison and films.

Billy86 · 12-06-2016 08:02PM

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Remove territorial/independence from your European stats on "terrorism", totally different picture. An entirely imported problem.

So basically, if you manipulate the data and completely take out other forms of terrorism, then it makes Islamic terrorism look bigger as a percentage.

I'm not surprised you don't even begin to see the flaws and irony in this.

Snake Plisken · 12-06-2016 08:02PM

Billy86 wrote: »

When was the last time you organised a rally to condemn the Lords Resistance Army & co? Assuming you are a Christian, and if you are not then what about your Christian friends? You don't seem too bothered about that, though?

Think we have asked you before but what's your ties to Islam again? Are you Muslim? Is there a family member a Muslim? Are you employed in The Clonskeagh mosque? Just for fairness yes I am a catholic so would just like to know why you constantly justify Islamic terrorist atrocities by blaming Christians or calling anyone who doesn't agree with you a bigot or a racist?

12-06-2016 08:02PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Has Barack called it for it what is yet or has he used the usual cowardly weasel words to describe the slaughter?

The sooner he leaves that office the safer the world becomes

Yip, those christian anglo-saxon praise the lord and pass the ammunition types are so gonna make the world a better & safer place.....

my friend · 12-06-2016 08:03PM

Matt Markinson wrote: »

Blaming this killing on all Muslims and Christians will be solid gold for Trump's election campaign.
He can't loose either way if this agenda ridden spin is kept up instead of sticking with the facts.
Let's not forget that Hitler came to power by blaming all the Jews and their religion for all the woes of Germany.
Any minute now either a left wing or right wing internet Nazi will be along to attempt to use the meme Godwin's "law" (invented to prevent anyone negatively highlighting Nazi like behaviour from either the left or right extremists) to silence this fact.

^^^ fools comparing Trump to Hitler

JPNelsforearm · 12-06-2016 08:06PM

Billy86 wrote: »

So basically, if you manipulate the data and completely take out other forms of terrorism, then it makes Islamic terrorism look bigger as a percentage.

I'm not surprised you don't even begin to see the flaws and irony in this.

No it shows the difference between localised violence that has existed for hundreds of years and is related to independance and IMPORTED Islamic terrorism, which is a much bigger problem, as it is not local, there is no rationality behind it, no negotiation.

Matt Markinson · 12-06-2016 08:08PM

my friend wrote: »

^^^ fools comparing Trump to Hitler

Here we go, some Trump whorship . . . .

gandalf · 12-06-2016 08:08PM

my friend wrote: »

^^^ fools comparing Trump to Hitler

Yeah at least Hitler could paint....

12-06-2016 08:08PM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

The NRA share the blame because firearms are available to individuals on FBI watch lists.

Omar Mateen would not have been able to amass an arsenal and perpetrate this massacre without America's insane gun laws.

BUT

Do NOT confuse the primary cause of this attack.

MILITANT VIOLENT ISLAMIC EXTREMISM.

You were doing well until the last couple of lines. What was he going to do? Batter 50 people to death with the fundamentalist edition of the Quran?

The Highwayman · 12-06-2016 08:13PM

Gatling wrote: »

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I sincerely doubt that he will be gleeful at the death of 50 citizens.

This is trump the racist ,sexist, misogynist idiot who's been whipping up mass hysteria the last few months ,
This will be used mass effect on his campaign

There is a hysterical idiot around here alright but it's not Donald Trump.

JPNelsforearm · 12-06-2016 08:13PM

Matt Markinson wrote: »

Here we go, some Trump whorship . . . .

https://i.sli.mg/vqJGRG.jpg

Severard · 12-06-2016 08:14PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Actually while in the US, Muslims are over represented at 6% of all terrorist acts since (if I recall) 1980 despite making up just 1% of the population the reverse is true in Europe with them making up 6% of the population and contributing to less than 2% (might have been less than 1%) of terrorist attacks.

But all of that is irrelevant to the point you made that I was addressing, you wanted to claim that the entire religion of Islam is inherently bad/wrong and not just the extremists, specifically because of what the extremists do. For me, there is a very clear flaw in that argument which should be apparent in reading that sentence, but if you wish to still subscribe to it then you must apply that to more or less all major organised religions (any religion that someone has declared a terrorist act in the name of) - including Christians, Jews and Buddhists.

When did I say that the "entire religion of Islam is inherently bad/wrong"? I didn't claim such a thing & if I did I wouldn't have been highlighting the fact of the good work carried out by the Quilliam foundation (which was founded & currently led by Muslims) in the Britain or the video I linked from the Clarion Foundation (Again created by Muslims).

The extremists get their ideas from the religion itself. This is evident by the fact that in the Philippines since the early 2000's there have been dozens of terrorist bombings in the country & there has been no foreign interventionist policies carried by the Filipino government.

12-06-2016 08:19PM

Severard wrote: »

Well restricting firearms didn't work out so well in Paris, Brussels & San Bernardino. These people are going to get their hands on weapons regardless.

No guns used in Brussels. Then again if the 2nd amendment included bombs as well as arms in its wording, the NRA would defend it with equal enthusiasm as they do the existing version.

RobertKK · 12-06-2016 08:23PM

Mateen was investigated in 2013 after he was found to have contacted a suicide bomber in 2013 who was a US citizen and who had gone to Syria for a suicide attack.
He was also investigated in 2014 again.

But not enough evidence to convict him of anything.

Matt Markinson · 12-06-2016 08:24PM

Severard wrote: »

Well restricting firearms didn't work out so well in Paris, Brussels & San Bernardino. These people are going to get their hands on weapons regardless.

And yet the less restrictive firearms policy in the USA hasn't worked out so well for all the regular gun lover massacres over there. There's been far more in the USA alone, than there ever has been in France, or all the European countries put together for that matter.

rjpf1980 · 12-06-2016 08:26PM

Mateen spoke with Orlando police pledging allegiance to ISIS and ISIS have claimed responsibility.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/orlando-nightclub-massacre/terror-hate-what-motivated-orlando-nightclub-shooter-n590496

Shooter Omar Mateen, 29, appeared to be a follower of ISIS propaganda and referenced the Tsarnaev brothers, who carried out the Boston Marathon bombings in 2013, at the scene, sources said.

Severard · 12-06-2016 08:26PM

Deleted User wrote: »

No guns used in Brussels. Then again if the 2nd amendment included bombs as well as arms in its wording, the NRA would defend it with equal enthusiasm as they do the existing version.

Well...

On 24 May 2014, a gunman opened fire at the Jewish Museum of Belgium in Brussels, Belgium, killing four people. Three died at the scene; a fourth was taken to the hospital and died on 6 June. The attack is being investigated as terrorism by Belgian authorities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Museum_of_Belgium_shooting

RobertKK · 12-06-2016 08:28PM

A person on CNN saying ISIS are under pressure on many fronts, and when under pressure they attack soft targets, US officials thought it would be the Euro championships not the US that would be attacked.

Billy86 · 12-06-2016 08:29PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

How big is the LRA these days? few hundred at most right? Are they even technically Christian, their leader is described as a prophet. From a quick browse of the wikipedia page it appears that nobody is actually sure what the LRA is.
I'm not saying Sunni Muslims should have to apologize for ISIS but there is a lot more shared background between them than a Roman Catholic and the LRA.

The LRA's numbers have dwindled significantly - at it's peak it had estimated at up to 100,000 members, abducted tens of thousands of children, murdered over 100,000, mutilated an estimated hundreds of thousands of others, raped endlessly, and led to the displacement of millions. They absolutely were Christian, having renamed from the Christian Democratic Army.

In fact, even when news outlets went to far as to try to make that they were not simply just Christian (despite the hints in the very name), this was their commander's comments:

Lord’s Resistance Army is just the name of the movement, because we are fighting in the name of God. God is the one helping us in the bush. That’s why we created this name, Lord’s Resistance Army. And people always ask us, are we fighting for the Ten Commandments of God. That is true – because the Ten Commandments of God is the constitution that God has given to the people of the world. All people. If you go to the constitution, nobody will accept people who steal, nobody could accept to go and take somebody’s wife, nobody could accept to kill the innocent, or whatever. The Ten Commandments carries all this

The similarities between them and ISIS on a number of levels really are quite striking. So where were all the Christians back in the '90s and '00s condemning them and saying this is not what Christianity is about, etc?

Truth is they/you/we were probably unaware, sure all I ever knew was that they were "African warlords" - because that's all the news ever told me they were.

Regarding the similarities of Muslims, that's not necessarily true. Sure I've been snap chatting back and forward a little with an ex who lives in Ireland. She's Muslim, but her parents moved over from Bosnia when she was 1 year old. Her and her whole family are white. Half her family observe Ramadan, half don't. She's all into make up/fashion/blah etc, she's about as observant as my family in going to church, doesn't own a single piece of Muslim garb, and really you would have no way of knowing she was Muslim from anyone else on the street.

I don't see why someone from Dublin who lived their entire life there would be automatically more predisposed to share traits with other Muslims than Christians would with other Christians?. Not unless you were referring to Muslims in Europe being more likely to be 1st-3rd generation immigrants as opposed to their Christian counterparts? If that is what you meant you may have a point, but then again that can be directly applied in reverse regarding the Irish & the IRA.

Matt Markinson · 12-06-2016 08:29PM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

Mateen spoke with Orlando police pledging allegiance to ISIS and ISIS have claimed responsibility.

Facts are not welcome.

Depending on the agenda, use it to blame it on Gays, Religion, Muslims, Immigrants, Liberals, Christians, Gun restrictions, or *

* = fill in any other agenda/prejudice you prefer here.

rjpf1980 · 12-06-2016 08:30PM

RobertKK wrote: »

A person on CNN saying ISIS are under pressure on many fronts, and when under pressure they attack soft targets, US officials thought it would be the Euro championships not the US that would be attacked.

The euros have only just begun.

How do we know there won't be attacks?

Billy86 · 12-06-2016 08:31PM

Snake Plisken wrote: »

Think we have asked you before but what's your ties to Islam again? Are you Muslim? Is there a family member a Muslim? Are you employed in The Clonskeagh mosque? Just for fairness yes I am a catholic so would just like to know why you constantly justify Islamic terrorist atrocities by blaming Christians or calling anyone who doesn't agree with you a bigot or a racist?

I'm an atheist, why do you ask? And what's with the paranoid obsession of attempting to create an 'us and them/with us or against us' dynamic?

BorneTobyWilde · 12-06-2016 08:32PM

http://news3lv.com/news/nation-world/isis-kill-list-targets-palm-beach-treasure-coast-residents-ex-fbi-agent

3 days ago

Isis did warn them. The killer is from treasure coast. US did nothing to warn people.

http://shoebat.com/2016/06/09/major-muslim-terrorists-makes-this-declaration-to-all-americans-we-are-coming-after-you-we-will-attack-florida-and-slaughter-americans-there/
3 days ago

RobertKK · 12-06-2016 08:33PM

FBI investigating about 1,000 people in the US for possible terrorist links, about 800 suspected of being ISIS sympathisers.

Matt Markinson · 12-06-2016 08:33PM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

The euros have only just begun.

How do we know there won't be attacks?

We don't.

But it's the last place anyone with any terrorist tactical sense in ISIS would attack when there are so many softer / easier targets and a much better chance to get away in so many other countries at present. Terrorism has already been recently achieved in France.

rjpf1980 · 12-06-2016 08:34PM

Billy86 wrote: »

I'm an atheist, why do you ask? And what's with the paranoid obsession of attempting to create an 'us and them/with us or against us' dynamic?

In case you have been asleep since 9/11 Islamic extremists are trying to kill as many people as they can. They are against us.

Billy86 · 12-06-2016 08:36PM

rjpf1980 wrote: »

In case you have been asleep since 9/11 Islamic extremists are trying to kill as many people as they can. They are against us.

You seem under the impression that every Muslim is an Islamic extremist. I shouldn't have to tell you this, but they're not.

rjpf1980 · 12-06-2016 08:37PM

Matt Markinson wrote: »

We don't.

But it's the last place anyone with any terrorist tactical sense in ISIS would attack when there are so many softer / easier targets and a much better chance to get away in so many other countries at present. Terrorism has already been recently achieved in France.

A crowd filing out of a stadium after watching a filthy haram game or crowds drinking alcohol and the opposite sexes mixing in clubs and bars during celebrations that insult the Prophet are not soft targets?

12-06-2016 08:37PM

Severard wrote: »

Well...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Museum_of_Belgium_shooting

22 March 2016?

Mass shooting in Orlando Nightclub

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