Finally, "Cheap" ADSL is here

Nitrox

SO finally Eircon has got their finger out, but frankly i still think it stinks so much that i will be happy to wait and see what Utv comes up with or just about anyone else!
If i could get IBB i would not care much about the instalation fee, it is real flatrate after all and that means a lot to me.
If companies like WYSE just made a small effort they could help bring broadband to the masses at much lower prices because they could option for the Business solutions and share it out to whole estates.
Anyway, there are plenty of good ideas, all i hope is that people wont be tempted to lick the Eircon "up the ass finger" and wait for some proper broadband! :mad:

gs39t

I'm in D16, and BOTH my phonelines failed the 'test' on their website. Now thats not very good, is it? :rolleyes:

PiE

Don't pay any attention to that online test. It says I can't get it and I was on the trial, worked fine.

Ring them up.

Urban Weigl

Do you work for Eircom?

Originally posted by Ardmore
Joe Street UK is paying £29.99, which is ?44.50
Joe Street US is paying $39.99-$49.99, which is ?38 to ?47.50

1. Not true. Joe Street in the UK is purchasing BT Broadband for £27 per month and £30 connection (all inclusive of VAT and including a free modem).

Packages from other big name companies like Virgin begin at around £20-25, and you can get it from £12.99 if you shop around. Again, all inclusive of VAT.

2. Joe Street in that US is not paying $49.99. ADSL at that price there has turned out a complete flop, with people turning to cheaper alternatives like cable instead.

Finally, if you look at virtually any other country in Europe, ADSL did not take off until it was priced at between 30 and 40 euros a month. And that's a fact. Even ComReg have said this (that ADSL is a no-go if it's priced above 30 - 40 euros for consumers).

SkepticOne

Good news. I did not think they would deliver on this. It is still too expensive to be called "mass market" broadband going on the experience of other countries, but it is less of a rip-off than previous efforts.

Some questions remain: a) Which exchanges have been upgraded to the new RADSL standard? and b) will other companies be offering services over bitstream?

With a wholesale price of 27 euros (I think the most expensive in Europe), it is unlikely that OLOs will be queuing up to provide services. Nevertheless, it is worth holding out a short time to see what is there before signing up for a year with Eircom.

BigEejit

Originally posted by Nitrox
Anyway, there are plenty of good ideas, all i hope is that people wont be tempeted to lick the Eircon up the ass finger and wait for some proper boradband!

I dont normally get all pedantic and point out mispellings, but that one just changes the whole point of you sentence .. heh, licking eircoms ass ... pretty disgusting

BigEejit

Well, I just checked and I am still failing that online jobby on the eircom website, I'm on the Ballincollig exchange (wherever it is?) in Cork, the question is, like SkepticOne says, where can you get RADSL?, is is turned on in all Eircom DSL enabled exchanges or is it only in certain areas ...?

Mark_irl

Saw the title of this thread and got excited, at last cheap ADSL, but found out it was just Eircons €54 a month, capped service,oh well.

aliesneo

I got adsl off eircom paying 100 quid a month or whatever it is.Ive had it about a month now. Are comreg ordering eircom to allow ppl to switch to the cheaper product?

MDR

Yeah,

I think COMREG ordered Eircom to allow people to downgrade without hassle ....

De Rebel

Originally posted by BigEejit
Well, I just checked and I am still failing that online jobby on the eircom website, I'm on the Ballincollig exchange (wherever it is?) in Cork, the question is, like SkepticOne says, where can you get RADSL?, is is turned on in all Eircom DSL enabled exchanges or is it only in certain areas ...?

I'm on Douglas exchange. I have ISDN. I am 3km approx. from the exchange, based on the route the cable folows. The cable is "modern" by Eircom standards. My line failed the test during Nov/Dec/Jan. Mysteriously it passed in Feb. After about 10 calls to Eircom, including one of the longest and angriest I have ever inflicted on anyone, I finally got an admission that the test has been updated. However which updates have actually been applied is anybody's guess. Eircom, in standard Stalinist mode, flatly refused to answer the question.

At least 3 updates were required:

1. Ability to test and pass lines which have ISDN installed
2. Ability to pass lines which have a capibility to operate at 512k but not a 1 MB (Previously Eircom only "passed" lines which could operate at 1MB, even if the Customer only required 512K. Go figure.
3. Ability to test and pass lines to minimum RADSL standards, whatever they are.

The first thing you should do is to find out where your exchange is and what the cable route is and the age of the cable and measure the distance. If its more than 4km, forget it, and start looking at other solutions..... e.g. Wireless. If it is around or less than 4km buy yourself lots of Wheetabix and hound the f*****s until they give in. Make their lives a complete misery. Trying to be reasonable with Eircom is a complete waste of time.

De Rebel

Originally posted by MDR
Yeah,

I think COMREG ordered Eircom to allow people to downgrade without hassle ....

You got anything to substantiate this? ( I assume when you say downgrade you are talking about switching from eircom i-stream solo/multi/enhanced to eircom i-stream starter within the initial 12 month lock-in)

De Rebel

Originally posted by parasite
so, where is the douglas exchange ?

Close to the COI church.

It took ages to get an answer, they cited "security" reasons for not wanting to tell me.(!!) I eventually found out on my 5th or 6th attempt when i rang 1901 and spoke to a biddy who grew up in Douglas but now works in Toipperary or somewhere. She had a brother in law who is an eircom technician and who lives/works in the douglas area. She very kindly rang him on his mobile and we had a three way conversation with her in the middle relaying the messages.

Plonkers!

segadreamcast

I finally passed yesterday bizarrely enough.

The tests were up and down for the last few days at my (and seemingly most) exchanges - so I had to presume they were up to something...

Time to order on Monday then :cool: well done IOFFL... well done everyone.

MarVeL

Just got a reply to a mal I sent in to UTV re DSL and it states that there are no details re DSL being released in the near future by them :-(. I'll live in hope that by this they mean in the next 2 or 3 weeks, any longer and I think it'll have to be eircom. Seeing as one of the reasons I want to get the product is I'm sick of paying money to eircom this prospect does NOT fill me with glee but financial concerns may force the issue

DSLinAbsentia

Hmm.. I still have the splitter from when I was on the trial (they just took the USB modem back)... I wonder if they'd still try to charge me.

I asked this question myself as I got a splitter with my wireless DSL router/modem that I can fit myself. But no way josé - according to my account manager in €irCon, the €99 connection will stand.

I figure that the effort to move the mouse cursor to the "Activate" button and clicking it must be very, very hard indeed. Either that, or their CEO is doing it and it costs €99 for each 30 seconds of his time - that must be it!

Nitrox

When i checked my phone and account number a month ago on Eircon it tested fine for ADSL, but today when they have announced the RADSL it says that i am not in the right area, so no nothing even if i wanted to.
I frankly just had it with this stoneage country, it sukx!

spongebob

hmmmmmm

I wonder if Eircom have withdrawn their RADSL line test under scrutiny from Comreg. Testing lines while in a closed 21 day period up to the 10/04/03 or so would appear to contravene their obligations under the regulations regarding wholesale offerings.

It would also appear that some exchanges will be RADSL (only) equipped from the very beginning. Therefore Eircom cannot carry out the older ADSL test on lines that are hooked into them because it would be somewhat pointless. You may be on one of the more recently enabled exchanges.

They may be more circumspect about their database as well.

Eircoms useless ADSL site is heavy on marketing guff but light on hard facts as to where they will deploy in early April when they are allowed.

M

Ardmore

Originally posted by Urban Weigl
Do you work for Eircom?

Are you related to Senator McCarthy? Anyone who doesn't see the world through your narrow blinkers must be "the enemy"?

It's none of your damn business who I work for, but, to satisfy your puerile interest, the only relationshop I have with eircom is as a customer, and a ripped-off ex-shareholder whose shares were forcibly repossessed by Valentia.

1. Not true. Joe Street in the UK is purchasing BT Broadband for £27 per month and £30 connection (all inclusive of VAT and including a free modem).

BT Broadband is an "access only" product - it doesn't even include an e-mail address, so it's not exactly a "Joe Street" package. "Joe Street" is purchasing BTOpenWorld at €44.50 (which is why it's the biggest DSL provider in the UK). Until January 13th, installation cost £65, almost exactly what eircom are charging. And you don't get a free modem with either of these packages.

As I made very clear in the bit that you didn't bother to quote, yes, you can get better deals than this. Just not from the 800-pound gorilla in the market, which is where "Joe Street" is buying. Freeserve and AOL are the other big players in the "Joe Street" market, and they're £27 and £28, but with higher up front costs.

None of these packages include "download allowances", but the BT and AOL ones do include a 12 month minimum contract (Freeserve don't publish their "small print").

Packages from other big name companies like Virgin begin at around £20-25, and you can get it from £12.99 if you shop around. Again, all inclusive of VAT.

Your point being? I said there are better deals around - but "Joe Street" is buying from BT.

2. Joe Street in that US is not paying $49.99. ADSL at that price there has turned out a complete flop, with people turning to cheaper alternatives like cable instead.

Did you even bother to look at the Providers I mentioned (again, the biggest players in the US market?) No, you decided to just spout off without bothering to check your facts. Verizon offer 2 deals - $29.99/month for the first 6 months, and $49.99/month after that, or $39.99 from the beginning. MSN use a variety of providers, and state that service costs $39.99-$49.99, depending on your location. AT&T and Yahoo offer 384K service for $39.99 and faster speeds for $49.99 plan, Covad and Earthlink only offer $49.99 plans. None of these prices include tax.

And in case you think this is an example of competition at work, most people will be lucky to have a choice of 2 DSL providers, except in big cities, where, as in parts of Dublin, some will have a choice of 5 or 6 providers.

And DSL and Cable both grew at exactlly the same rate in the US last year, so there's no evidence of people leaving DSL for Cable. (Cable has about a 60-40 advantage over DSL in the US market, the only world market where it leads DSL).

Finally, if you look at virtually any other country in Europe, ADSL did not take off until it was priced at between 30 and 40 euros a month. And that's a fact.

Since when was the UK not in the EU? (Not to mention the fact that, because of our low tax regime, we have a significantly higer discretionary income than in most other EU countries, which is why we happily pay more for our mobile phone access).

Even ComReg have said this (that ADSL is a no-go if it's priced above 30 - 40 euros for consumers).

Do you have a reference for this quote from ComReg?

SkepticOne

I think Joe Street and John Q. Public will be sticking with the various dial-up products for the moment until prices for DSL come down to reasonable levels.

LFCFan

Originally posted by Ardmore
It's none of your damn business who I work for, but, to satisfy your puerile interest, the only relationshop I have with eircom is as a customer, and a ripped-off ex-shareholder whose shares were forcibly repossessed by Valentia.

You have to see why people would think you are an €ircon mole. You stick up for their rediculous products no matter how crappy they are.

BT Broadband is an "access only" product - it doesn't even include an e-mail address, so it's not exactly a "Joe Street" package. "Joe Street" is purchasing BTOpenWorld at €44.50 (which is why it's the biggest DSL provider in the UK).

Shut up about Joe Street will ya FFS. At least this chap has a choice to pay a high fee or go with someone cheaper. We're stuck with rediculously priced, low end products.

And in case you think this is an example of competition at work, most people will be lucky to have a choice of 2 DSL providers, except in big cities, where, as in parts of Dublin, some will have a choice of 5 or 6 providers.

5 or 6 DSL providers my arse. There is 1 if you're lucky in most places, 2 if you count ESAT's small amount of exchanges. The rest are reselling an overpriced wholesale product from €ircon at the same price so it's hardly competition.

Since when was the UK not in the EU? (Not to mention the fact that, because of our low tax regime, we have a significantly higer discretionary income than in most other EU countries

Why do we have to compare prices to the UK? Look at all EU/Other countries and you'll see a lot cheaper ADSL products in places that are supposed to be less 'well off' than us.

Also, we may have low personal taxes but we have extremely high indirect taxes so we're hardly swimming in money.

spongebob

Originally posted by LFCFan
You have to see why people would think you are an €ircon mole. You stick up for their rediculous products no matter how crappy they are.

5 or 6 DSL providers my arse. There is 1 if you're lucky in most places, 2 if you count ESAT's small amount of exchanges. The rest are reselling an overpriced wholesale product from €ircon at the same price so it's hardly competition.

I must say that I am 100% behind LFCFan on this one.

While Ardmore has an above average understanding of the technologies I find his constant apologism for the Eircom Predatory Monopoly is wearing thin.

His assertation that a home user package of ADSL+Line Rental+VAT is unavailable at the VITAL price point of €49.99 or less .....within the EU.... is wrong! His insistence on decoupling Line rental costs from comparative calculations is wrong.

Nor has Ardmore pretended to notice that Ireland has by far the highest Line Rental for Analogue lines ....over which ADSL is provisioned....... in all of Europe. Then we are 40th in the world in terms of Local call costs over these fabulously expensive analogue lines.....

ADSL in Ireland will cost us €54 a month + €21.15 line rental a month (both figures include VAT. Instead of having a product at €49.99 or less, we will pay €75.15 for it each and every month. Thats unless we bust the 4Gb cap in which case we will probably pay more.

FRIACO will reputedly come into being from Eircom at €29 a month including VAT. Add the €21.15 line rental component and we have a basic FRIACO package, 56k dialup FFS, for €50.15 a month.

If that is the case we will pay more for FRIACO than others pay for ADSL

Speaking as one who sold out of Eircom at a profit

M

MDR

You got anything to substantiate this? ( I assume when you say downgrade you are talking about switching from eircom i-stream solo/multi/enhanced to eircom i-stream starter within the initial 12 month lock-in)

Now you asking a tough question, do want to ask COMREG or shall I ?

we have a significantly higer discretionary income than in most other EU countries

I would be very interested to see hard stats to back this claim up ?

LFCFan

Originally posted by MDR
I would be very interested to see hard stats to back this claim up ?

Me too!

spongebob

Originally posted by Ardmore

Since when was the UK not in the EU? (Not to mention the fact that, because of our low tax regime, we have a significantly higer discretionary income than in most other EU countries, which is why we happily pay more for our mobile phone access).

Hmmmm

Ardmore is correct. The avarage Irish punter goes to work and ends up with more wonga in the póca at the end of the month because our Income Tax take is lower than in most EU countries. This is because of our demographic profile and the fiscal lessons we learnt in the 1980's .

Then we are assailed by Price Gouging Cartels such as ESAT/Eircom , O2/Voodoofone, The Vintners , The Insurance companies and the Banks, The Law Society and the fellas with the Rats on their heads. The Hospital consultants and the Dentists.

Cumulatively, all of this is hard on the póca. These verminous cartels take money out of the real economy on a vast scale ands then try to dodge tax....like those Barristers who were trying to write off a wedge of income tax on a scam that was closed off last week.

M

LFCFan

it's the old 'give with one hand, take with the other' routine.

Ardmore

Originally posted by Muck
I find his constant apologism for the Eircom Predatory Monopoly is wearing thin.

No thinner than I find your constant black propaganda and misrepresentation of the facts.

His assertation that a home user package of ADSL+Line Rental+VAT is unavailable at the VITAL price point of €49.99 or less .....within the EU.... is wrong!

Yup, I missed that post on the 4th page of a 6page thread. Not being able to read Swedish, I can't tell whether that price includes VAT, but I can't help wondering if that Swedish price is "normal" why you only provided a single example?

His insistence on decoupling Line rental costs from comparative calculations is wrong.

And that's a lie, plain and simple. I don't think there is even a single reference to DSL prices in other countries on this board that includes the cost of line rental. Everyone says "DSL costs €X in France", "So-and-so is offering DSL in Spain for €Y".

If by your reckconing the cheapest DSL package in Europe "costs" €46/month, it makes the oft-quoted (but unreferenced) ComReg opinion that it won't take off until it's available for €30-€40 seem just a little bit silly, doesn't it?

Nor has Ardmore pretended to notice that Ireland has by far the highest Line Rental for Analogue lines in all of Europe.

What exactly is that supposed to mean? It's now a sin not to moan and groan about this?

What I have moaned and groaned about is that people who live in cities get to subsidise this line rental for those who want to live half way up a mountain. You constantly compare Ireland to Sweden but never bother to point out that Sweden doesn't have our love of one-off rural housing and ribbon development that costs a lot more to provision than neat, compact hamlets in remote areas.

ADSL in Ireland will cost us €54 a month + €21.15 line rental a month (both figures include VAT.

Again, the lies and black propaganda. DSL will cost €54 +VAT for now. To paraphrase the T&Cs used by UK providers it "Requires an eircom line". As in every other market, I expect to see deals and special offers 6 to 12 months after the initial introduction if the uptake is strong enough to stimulate competition.

FRIACO will reputedly come into being from Eircom at €29 a month including VAT. Add the €21.15 line rental component and we have a basic FRIACO package, 56k dialup FFS, for €50.15 a month.

With this sort of negativity, is it any wonder we have such low scores on all sorts of ratings.

dahamsta

No thinner than I find your constant black propaganda and misrepresentation of the facts.

I don't deny that Muck propagandises on the IrelandOffline forum, but I believe that he's the most consistent factual reporter on this forum, backing up his comments and assertions with evidence whenever humanly possible. I think you should withdraw that remark. Calling him a liar isn't exactly constructive either, when his commentary on line rental is quite obviously considered opinion, an opinion that many others hold. It's difficult to decide who's right or wrong - if anyone /can/ be right or wrong - but he has provided valid arguments for his beliefs.

adam

bk

Originally posted by dahamsta
No thinner than I find your constant black propaganda and misrepresentation of the facts.

I don't deny that Muck propagandises on the IrelandOffline forum, but I believe that he's the most consistent factual reporter on this forum, backing up his comments and assertions with evidence whenever humanly possible. I think you should withdraw that remark. Calling him a liar isn't exactly constructive either, when his commentary on line rental is quite obviously considered opinion, an opinion that many others hold. It's difficult to decide who's right or wrong - if anyone /can/ be right or wrong - but he has provided valid arguments for his beliefs.

adam

Agreed, I second Adams comments, I wish all posters on boards (myself included) where as factual and well informed as Muck.

Ardmore

Originally posted by LFCFan
You have to see why people would think you are an €ircon mole. You stick up for their rediculous products no matter how crappy they are.

Given the times that are in it, I have a very low tolerance for propaganda. And a lot of the stuff spouted about eircom is little more than emotional spewing. I dislike eircom as much as the next person, but I have to deal with the fact that they own the copper coming into my home, and that nobody is interested in "unbundling" it. I don't like the fact that, despite the availablility of alternative providers, something like 7/8ths of all residential customers still use eircom exclusively. (I might be wrong on that number, but what ever it is, it puts the lie to the notion that eircom was sold off to facilitate competition). I don't like the fact that I can't get DSL for under €50. But I won't apologize for welcoming the new RADSL product, not just because it's available in the price window that I find (just about) acceptable, but because the technology will vastly increase the number of homes that can avail of the service. (This is at least as important as the pricing).

Shut up about Joe Street will ya FFS.

If you don't want to talk about "Joe Street", don't respond to posts about "Joe Street". It wasn't my phrase, I was responding to someone elses point.

5 or 6 DSL providers my arse.

You seem to do enough talking through it. I specifically said 5 or 6 providers - I can get broadband from IBB, LEAP, IrishWISP, ESAT and Eircom (not to mention resellers of eircom and ESATs products). But I'm not paying €350 installation. I have some sympathy for the wireless ISPs and they're set up costs, but that's still too rich for me.

There is 1 if you're lucky in most places,

Sigh. You're not very good at following the plot, are you? I didn't say "most places". I very specifically said "South Dublin". I provided pricing information for 5 or 6 US DSL providers, but I made the point that "most places" in the US don't have a choice between all of these providers. "most places" in the US have a choice between 2 - just like us. (Or just like we would be if ESAT would get the finger out and actually sell the product that the complain that no-one is buying).

Why do we have to compare prices to the UK?

Why not - we watch their TV, read their newspapers, follow their football teams, fly out on sun holidays through their airports, eat their biscuits and crisps, get our mobile phone service through their companies. We even speak the same language as them (so we can read the T&Cs on their DSL contracts). And most Irish people probably don't have to look up Yahoo to get a rough idea of how much £29.99 is. How many people do you know who can tell you how much 300 Swedish Krona is?