Why?

iwb

I'm going to get a little philosophical here. I think it's important to get back to basics once in a while. So, the basic question is why do we want or need internet access?
I don't mean a particular type of access but internet access in general. Why are we getting ourselves all worked up about the lack of it in Ireland? I don't know how to do a poll but am very interested in seeing what people think are the reasons.
I will have a go at some of the main ones.
1. To continue to compete with other countries for international investment.
2. To make business more efficient.
3. To allow the disabled to function better.
4. Cheaper communications
5. Better communications with video conferencing
6. Other interactions with each other including gaming.
7. Social inclusion.
8. Education.
9. More technically savvy population.
There are lots more. I tried to keep it in what I thought was order of importance for most but I lost the plot a short way into the list.
Anyone want to help me do a poll for these?
iwb.

pork99

Originally posted by iwb

1. To continue to compete with other countries for international investment.
2. To make business more efficient.

We're facing a future where these things will make the difference between having a developed or undeveloped economy. Its like going back to 1900 and someone saying "do we really need this new-fangled electricity thing?"

iwb

Don't get me wrong. I am not asking the question because I don't believe we need it. I am as pro high speed communications as they come. iwb = i want broadband:D
I ask the question as I really want to encourage a constructive discussion on the basic question without getting into detail on technologies or bashing telcos and pointing fingers.

bk

Why?

Because of all the reasons you mentioned above, plus many more.

The Internet is one of the most important developments in the last millenium, perhaps even more important then the printing press or electricity (of course it builds on both of these and wouldn't be possible without them).

The Internet has had a revolutionary impact on almost every human activity.

It has and will continue to change how we communicate, shop, entertain, educate and socially and politically interact.

The Internet is far to important and all encompassing to try and explain why we all need it. Every person has different reasons why they need it and often a mixture of these reasons.

Increasingly the net will just become another part of our lives that we take for granted, like electricity.

iwb

Originally posted by bk
Why?

Because of all the reasons you mentioned above, plus many more.

The Internet is one of the most important developments in the last millenium, perhaps even more important then the printing press or electricity (of course it builds on both of these and wouldn't be possible without them).

The Internet has had a revolutionary impact on almost every human activity.

It has and will continue to change how we communicate, shop, entertain, educate and socially and politically interact.

The Internet is far to important and all encompassing to try and explain why we all need it. Every person has different reasons why they need it and often a mixture of these reasons.

Increasingly the net will just become another part of our lives that we take for granted, like electricity.

"The Internet has had a revolutionary impact on almost every human activity."

For some. For many, it has barely touched their lives in any way. That isn't to say it won't, but how and when will it? Is it when FRIACO arrives or when high speed services are available in their areas? Is it when they buy their first computer?

"The Internet is far to important and all encompassing to try and explain why we all need it. Every person has different reasons why they need it and often a mixture of these reasons."

Huh? Perhaps the opposite. It is far too important not to try to explain why we need it. I believe that even if it were available everywhere to everyone, for a few euro a month, there are still many who won't adopt it in the first number of years. That's one of the reasons for asking the question.
By the way, I really don't want to see the phrase 'killer app' used in this thread. If I had my way, I would ban its use on pain of death.

"Increasingly the net will just become another part of our lives that we take for granted, like electricity."

I fully agree. It's just when? That statement for me is true right now. It is for a small percentage of the population. The rest are somewhere between not knowing it exists and wishing for it to be omnipresent.

Ardmore

Originally posted by iwb
Why?

10. So that I can ask google whenever I think of a question!

iwb

Thanks for the replies. Anyone want to help me set up a poll?

mike65

My sig says it all really....

Mike.

captainpat

Do you drive a single-cylinder car at 15 mph?
Do you have a 9" b/w television?
Do you have a Crystal radio?
Do you have an analogue dial-up connection to the World?

Most of us can say NO to the above questions, with one exception, as access to the World is part of what the Internet and Broadband is about.

The development of every area of technology may create its problems, but also its challenges and solutions. The Internet, and WWW access, has delivered the potential for everybody to be able to find out about (almost) everything, if they wish. The answer above with the need to ask Google is right on the button.

But it is not enough to ask a question and get an answer, or 22,000 answers, mostly similar. We need to explore further, to see more, to hear and even feel more to gain real knowledge. This is where the technology is going. It is an accelerating experience which needs an equally accelerating delivery method. The reason anybody is reading this tripe is that you all care, and want more of the experience, faster, sooner, cheaper, better.

It did not take a Comreg to go from the Otto-mobile to a Ferrari, but it happened.

No Comreg pushed the Baird experiment to our Plasma TVs.

Digital radio, even with surround sound can be reached by most people, without government control to foster its development.

So, with or without the "assistance" of the Comreg initiatives, the direction and pace of public internet service access will be driven by larger movements, such as the cultural phenomenon which is Ireland Offline. I have been involved with computers for nearly 40 years, and consider that the Internet, and access to it, has been the best development possible of the technology. By its very nature, it is unstoppable.

So that is my view on "Why?"

Let's keep moving on "How" and "When"

Stonemason

Knowledge is power with out it we are powerless. I run a computer business and the technology moves so fast that without the net keeping up would be impossible. Also the reason apart from gaming, live feeds, and the ability to download drivers for all the customers that don’t still have the cd from when their modem was installed three years ago, life would be more expensive and time consuming for all concerned (some drivers you simply wouldnt be able to get)

iwb

Great replies.
Now, you are sitting in someones kitchen having a cup of tea. They are living well outside Dublin in a smaller town. DSL is available in the town for Eur54 per month (this is of course a few months hence). You would love to see more people use the network and can genuinely see real reasons for this person to get on DSL.
Where do you start? Do they have a PC? Do they know how to use it?
Although the internet is akin to phones or electricity in its significance, it is very unlike these in that it will be far more difficult to benefit from it in the short term. When electricity was delivered, you could flick a switch and get light. When phones were first delivered, you could twist a handle and speak with someone who would connect you. While both were scary for most people to deal with at first, the learning curve wasn't too bad.
In contrast, there are very few dedicated internet appliances currently. Most of us use a PC to access and benefit from the internet.
I really do feel for someone with a PC and very little knowledge of how to use it or indeed interest in learning. I can't blame them. After all, I can drive my car for months between services (which are relatively inexpensive) and just keep petrol in it and check oil and water. If I own a PC, I have to have a firewall, virus scanner and do constant internet updates (yes I am confining it to windows for now) to make sure my PC stays healthy.
So, another fundamental question. Should these people (who represent a large percentage of the population) subscribe to high speed always on connections? Why?

SkepticOne

Originally posted by iwb
I really do feel for someone with a PC and very little knowledge of how to use it or indeed interest in learning. I can't blame them. After all, I can drive my car for months between services (which are relatively inexpensive) and just keep petrol in it and check oil and water. If I own a PC, I have to have a firewall, virus scanner and do constant internet updates (yes I am confining it to windows for now) to make sure my PC stays healthy.
So, another fundamental question. Should these people (who represent a large percentage of the population) subscribe to high speed always on connections? Why?

I don't think always on connections are intrinsically difficult. In fact there's a lot less messing about with modems and dial-up noises. Generally, after installation, it's a much lower maintenance thing.

Broadband connections are also much easier to use because of the lower latency and higher speeds. People get much better feedback from their interaction with there web browser - pages load instantly, etc.

If you want to put someone off using the internet, give them a connection at 14,400kbs.

The problem is, however, that the vast majority of people won't entertain 54 euros for internet access a month regardless of speed. Obviously the lower the better, but demand seems to drop off hugely after 40 euros.

Current pricing of the internet with it's "free" pay-as-you-go (the vast majority use this) encourages essential use only. People log on for specific purposes, and then log off again. While people are only using it for essential purposes, the slowness can be tolerated since it only for short periods.

To build demand for broadband, in addition to bringing down the cost, you need to encourage non-essential uses such as reading on-line articles and communicating via message services like ICQ however this difficult with the clock ticking away and the euros adding up.

PC ownership is fairly high in Ireland at 62% so that is not a huge issue, and neither is the ability to access the internet at home. It is current usage that makes Ireland stand out.

I don't think there will be a problem selling broadband to current reasonably heavy users, and there's people who are used to fast internet at work who might consider it at home if it was available. You could probably sell it to 20% (which would be very good) fairly easily. The remaining 80% would be harder due to the problems of ordinary internet access in Ireland.

pork99

Originally posted by iwb
Although the internet is akin to phones or electricity in its significance, it is very unlike these in that it will be far more difficult to benefit from it in the short term. When electricity was delivered, you could flick a switch and get light. When phones were first delivered, you could twist a handle and speak with someone who would connect you. While both were scary for most people to deal with at first, the learning curve wasn't too bad.
In contrast, there are very few dedicated internet appliances currently. Most of us use a PC to access and benefit from the internet.

I think uptake of the internet is driven by exposure to it in work and education.

Obviously if people are working down a mine, ploughing fields* or stitching trainers they have no need for it but for many managerial/professional/technical occupations it is becoming a necessity.

*but even there the online tractor is now available!

Hornet

Originally posted by SkepticOne

To build demand for broadband, in addition to bringing down the cost, you need to encourage non-essential uses such as reading on-line articles and communicating via message services like ICQ however this difficult with the clock ticking away and the euros adding up.

The stimulation of non-essential use requires the public to mentally connect the Internet with a _beneficial_ service AND it requires a service structure that is easy to comprehend.

Imagine if you would be an Internet novice and had never used it yourself. Now you want to read an on-line article and are trying to find it and to navigate around. If I have a newspaper in front of me, there are so many pages and I can't get lost. If I watch TV, there are 16 (or so) channels and I can go up and down, but I can't do much wrong. Put yourself in a novices shoes, would you agree that the Internet is vastly confusing and daunting? We all know - and even novices have heard it - there is nearly every bit of information available you could dream of. But would it not be a lot safer for me settle with a few sites like Hotmail, Irish Independent (because free) and Ryanair? After that a novice has to be concerned about "finding home" again!

Apart from the threatening aspect of the Internet, there is the questionable benefit. (This is not ME questioning it!) If you regularly read a newspaper, try this: Over the next week, search for articles in the newspaper that have anything to do with the Internet. You probably would find lots more articles about Child Pornography, sleaze and unsuitable material than about the benefits. Many people honestly think as soon as you connect to the Internet you are greeted by pictures of adult-only nature. Nobody is questioning the postal service because it can be used as a distribution channel for child pornography, but many people outright blame the Internet for the problem.

We have to do something to counteract this public impression. Is there a GOOD portal for Ireland that is suitable for novices? If not, it should be put together and promoted by organisations like IOFFL.

Only when we convince the novices that the Internet is not BAD, they will start being interested. The people that are watching the clock, as described in SkepticOne's posting, have already moved to Step 2. They are interested, but want more. Over all this let's not forget the ones that haven't even reached Step 1.

-Hornet

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Hornet
Only when we convince the novices that the Internet is not BAD, they will start being interested. The people that are watching the clock, as described in SkepticOne's posting, have already moved to Step 2. They are interested, but want more. Over all this let's not forget the ones that haven't even reached Step 1.

The focus of my reply was these stage 2 people, those that are put off by clock watching. This was in my response to iwb's last post about who will take up broadband at 54 euros.

Yes, the stage 0 people, the 40% or so, need to be be persuaded to use the internet at all, and for this we need to counteract the negative images in the press. These people won't be put off by phone charges because they've never used the internet. The pay-as-you-go model is fine here and allows people to dip their feet.

I was talking about a different group (the stage 2, as hornet puts it) people, potential broadband subscribers, who do use the internet but are being put off by phone charges. Out of these, some will opt for unmetered packages before shelling out on broadband at 54 euros. To a certain extent, these people are also put off by the bad public impression too.

Again, in identifying this group, I don't want to downplay the role of education and awareness in all this.

iwb

Hornet brings up a very good point. There are probably many fears of the internet at many levels besides the daunting one of the technology and useablility. Urban legends abound. The guy whose credit card was mysteriously charged for downloading porn etc.
People with kids are very nervous about them having access. This is compounded by the fact that the kids run rings around them in their knowledge so the parents really have no idea what the kids are doing online, netnanny or not. Someone asked me recently if they could get a second monitor in the living area so they could see the screen at all times when the kids are online.
I am glad that this thread has stuck to the issue I was trying to bring out. All too often the tangent takes over and the initial intent is lost. If we can understand "why", I believe it will help us to deal with the issue at hand.
There is a need to involve the community in the process. I think that is the best approach to having the maximum number of people embrace the concept and the service.

spongebob

Originally posted by iwb

People with kids are very nervous about them having access.

This actually has quite a dampening effect on demand. I had never heard of the monitor monitor idea before.....its a totally reasonable request when you think of it now that XP is being shipped almost universally.

I think that one of the key drivers in Ireland is travel, Ryanair . I know 2 older people who use email a lot but only ever browse to buy/check cheap travel.

the AIB virtual credit card product has allayed many fears about giving out cc numbers, FRIACO will satisfy this demographic...who hve time to use the net during the day from home, the Ryanair site works perfectly well at 28.8k

M

eircomtribunal

Originally posted by Hornet
Over all this let's not forget the ones that haven't even reached Step 1.

-Hornet

Education, information and other means of support are all welcome, but the most effective stimulant for this group is often overlooked: widespread Internet usage within the population (achieved mainly by low access costs). As long as only geeks, or well-educated or well-off are using it, all efforts to promote it among the last likely users will have very limited success. But if a sizable portion of society is using the Internet Horkheimer's principle of the "normative power of the factual" kicks into play. From then on you give support to your step 1 group in order to enable them to take part in what has become the norm in the society and no longer in order to try to convince them to do something that they do not recognise as the norm.

Peter

pork99

Originally posted by eircomtribunal
Horkheimer's principle of the "normative power of the factual" kicks into play.

Was that not disproved by Recklingshausen's Infinite Recursion Paradigm?

Hornet

Originally posted by eircomtribunal
Education, information and other means of support are all welcome, but the most effective stimulant for this group is often overlooked: widespread Internet usage within the population (achieved mainly by low access costs). As long as only geeks, or well-educated or well-off are using it, all efforts to promote it among the last likely users will have very limited success.

Peter, I agree with you, but the "normative power of the factual" is still exposed to the chicken-and-egg problem:

To "activate" this normative power, we need to get "normal" people to use the Internet, but you are saying "normal" people will most likely become Internet users when the normative power is activated.

It really brings us back to the question, how can we get the "normal" people to use the Internet.

And that is exactly the question iwb raised: How can we get people to use the Internet.

So the challenge for _us_ is really to provide something to all three categories of Internet users (non-users, occasional users, experts) with their diverse requirements.

IOFFL is perceived as a grouping of experts fighting for the needs of the experts. I do believe this is not entirely true as the FRIACO discussion could benefit some of the occasional users as well, but in this last sentence I already made an unforgiveable mistake from the view point of the "non-users": I used an "expert-term", i.e. FRIACO.

---

I think IOFFL could take on the challenge if the members (and the leadership) would be happy to come down to the level of "non-users" and "occasional users".

But maybe it would be a better idea to avoid dilution of IOFFL efforts and to found an Irish Internet User Group with close links/co-operation between IOFFL and the User Group.

(Because of educational goal, this Irish Internet User Group could potentially even get sponsorship for educational projects (I am thinking of Internet Awareness Evenings in the local Parish Halls.))

I am happy to develop the idea further if there is interest.

Comments from all readers (including IOFFL officials), especially to the last suggestion are very welcome.

-Hornet

BTW:
In order to give the baby (user group) a name, I suggest "Internet in Ireland (III)". "III" is not only the abbreviation of the name, but is also the roman "3" which indicates the number of different user types III represents (non-users, occasional users, experts). In addition it indicates the number of interest groups "III" wants to bring around the table: Users, Industry and Government.

Should I start the domain registration process?

iwb

Thanks Hornet. That is the kind of thinking I was hoping would come out of this. I will help in any way I can as I think this is a fundamental step in the right direction. It will be even better if these meetings can include broadband or high speed demonstrations. I know that Aramiska for example has a van that travels all over demonstrating their satellite internet service. Maybe it would be possible to do something similar in areas where nothing is available to demo the power of the internet.

pork99

I know that Aramiska for example has a van that travels all over demonstrating their satellite internet service

Its significant that there is a commercial rather than educational motive there.

And who is the main seller of internet connections in Ireland? Apart from their man in a rat suit ads on tv what effort have they made to promote internet awareness/usage? Thats right absolutely SFA.

With so much easy money coming in from dial up and leased lines they have no incentive to grow the market by promoting interest in the internet.

Hornet

pork99, I don't think iwb suggested to copy what this company is/was doing commercially, instead he only refered to the "Roadshow" concept (truck travelling through Ireland) as a possible campaign.

The advantage of such a concept (and it could indeed make use of a "Internet via Satellite" link) would be that the public could be informed independent from local facilities (be it rooms or available Internet connectivity). The downside could be the cost of such a truck, but, hey, let's not shoot ideas down yet!

I think if we are fair, then none of the ISPs in Ireland has done much on the Awareness Campaign side. But why should they not sponsor such an effort? As long as the sponsorship is not exclusive and as long as the "III Awareness Campaign" is completely unbiased and carrier-neutral, I wouldn't see a problem with it.

-Hornet

iwb

Pork99,
You did misunderstand me. I am with Hornet on how this should proceed. It would be essential for it to be non commercial and carrier neutral.
The value of the demonstration is easy to see and there are very many places where it wouldn't be possible to have any kind of high speed access to do a show and tell with. I guess that is why we are all here every day:)
I like the triple I thing too. It has potential.

pork99

Originally posted by iwb
The value of the demonstration is easy to see and there are very many places where it wouldn't be possible to have any kind of high speed access to do a show and tell with.

Not questioning the validity of the concept just who is going to pay for it and organise it.

It seems to me that parties who expect to profit from it will do the best job because they should have the motivation of gaining increased revenue from increasing the number of customers. The only other entity that might have the resources for this sort of thing would be some government agencies but in the current economic climate cant see anything like that being a priority

seamus

I've only read about half of the replies, but just to expand on mike65's sig

When phones were invented, they took quite a while to catch on. They were dismissed as useless, "sure, what's the point, when you can just send a nice letter, or walk to their house and have a chat". Some people today still have trouble using their landline phone, and understanding even the basics of how it works (trust me, I answer phones all day in work).

When cars were invented, people dismissed them as fanciful, lumbering creatures. They were regarded as a fad that would soon die out, or become obsolete because of trains. Up until the 1960's/70's in Ireland, a car wasn't regarded as essential, and today, only about half of people who have a car actually know anything about how it works.

The internet seems to be following the exact same pattern - First, the rich and the knowledgable become the first to avail of this new technology. Everyone else dismisses it as a fad, with very little practical use to them at all. Slowly, but surely, the true benefits become clear, and people begin to use it more and more.

Would our world be able to function without phones or cars? Well, probably, but our (western) world would be wholly different. Many of us couldn't imagine not having a phone to call their loved ones every day, or a car to get themselves around.

Such as it is, and will be with the Internet. Except that the Internet is catching on far faster than anything ever has. Not even(?) 10 years into it's creation, and 30% of people use it regularly. That's quite astonishing. Networks as a whole have only been around for roughly 30 years, and already they form the backbone of most of our society.

We need improved Internet services, because the Internet is growing in size and importance, whether we like it or not, and we can't be left behind.

Hornet

Originally posted by pork99
Not questioning the validity of the concept just who is going to pay for it and organise it.

It seems to me that parties who expect to profit from it will do the best job because they should have the motivation of gaining increased revenue from increasing the number of customers. The only other entity that might have the resources for this sort of thing would be some government agencies but in the current economic climate cant see anything like that being a priority

Valid question!

If a party that could profit from it would organise it, it would turn into advertisement (or into a flaming war with the "experts" who would be only too happy to hijack an Eircom meeting ).

If it would be a government agency....does that word itself not send shivers down your spine in the context of Internet Awareness Campaign? The financial side is certainly another problem.

I would see the organisation done by III (Internet in Ireland), a non-profit organisation, which works closely with IOFFL and maybe IIA (new suggestion). The organising crew would be paid expenses only. The seminars and Q&A are done by trained volunteers with the strong involvement of local resources (e.g. readers of this board and supporters of IOFFL etc). The sponsorship would be from local businesses, Chambers of Commerce, carriers, local authorities (maybe unlikely) and a voluntary contribution of the attendees. Every company that is sponsoring will be mentioned and has every right to be present. But the information given will be sponsor-neutral.

Let's not expect the impossible: To offer an event like this in every corner of the country will take a good bit of time and getting sponsorship can be a tough job. In addition it requires tests in a number of locations before the acceptance and success probability can be determined.

For the people who have read any of my other postings on these boards, it might be a boring repetition, but I have to say it again:

If we want to change something, we have to do it ourselves!

No government, no carrier, not god sent angel will turn Ireland in the Internet-aware country we would like to see, where carriers provide customer-oriented services and where all three user groups (non-users, occasional users, experts) have the chance to benefit from the Internet in the way they would prefer to.

Complaining is good, but actively changing is better!

Do you think you could help? (This question is going out to everybody!!) The fact that you bother making your opinion known here, suggests to me that you could!

-Hornet

SkepticOne

This is an interesting idea. Of course it would mean different information leaflets. For example, we could not tell people that they are being ripped-off, for example, and how much cheaper it is in other countries, etc.

The other thing to remember is that most of the money spent on the internet in Ireland goes to Eircom regardless of who the ISP is, so there is effectively no "vendor neutral" means of promoting the internet. You would be enforcing the dial-up monopoly rather than promoting competition which is desparately needed.

Finally, from what I've heard, satellite internet is basically unuseable from a web browsing point of view. Downloads are fairly fast, but interactive use is much much worse than the dial-up that people are currently forced to use. This would tend to put them off further I think.

Nevertheless, it is an interesting idea and one that is worth exploring in the future. Maybe not by a campaign organisation with a specific message, but by a different group with different goals. It is worth exploring further.

dahamsta

[ Ah, I see. Never mind. ]

Hornet

[Explanation: In this posting III stands for "Internet in Ireland" a proposed Interest Group for the promotion of the use of the Internet in Ireland.]

Originally posted by SkepticOne
This is an interesting idea. Of course it would mean different information leaflets. For example, we could not tell people that they are being ripped-off, for example, and how much cheaper it is in other countries, etc.

I guess the Step 1 group (non-users) are not primarly concerned with the prices in other countries, but there is nothing to stop III to openly support IOFFL and others in their fight for lower prices etc. However, it should not be the main goal. That's why I suggest a separate organisation outside of IOFFL.

The other thing to remember is that most of the money spent on the internet in Ireland goes to Eircom regardless of who the ISP is, so there is effectively no "vendor neutral" means of promoting the internet. You would be enforcing the dial-up monopoly rather than promoting competition which is desparately needed.

I have to disagree.

Promoting the use of the Internet is NOT counterproductive to increased competition. All the Wireless Operators use Eircom or Esat as little as possible, they they have definitely the opportunity to improve the competitive situation.
The fact that Eircom is the biggest dial-up ISP and therefore would have a proportinally higher benefit from improved Internet awareness doesn't make the promotion vendor-biased. In addition I should point out, that III should not only look after Newbies, but as well after occasional users (where dial-up might not be that attractive anymore) and after experts (where dial-up....I don't have to finish this sentence...).

Another way of countering your argument would be to ask: Do you think the competitive situation would improve or Eircom's market power would be reduced if the Internet awareness would NOT be raised. If you can answer YES to this, then I have to agree that the III idea is a bad one.

Finally, from what I've heard, satellite internet is basically unuseable from a web browsing point of view. Downloads are fairly fast, but interactive use is much much worse than the dial-up that people are currently forced to use. This would tend to put them off further I think. .

I never had the opportunity to try Internet access via Satellite, but from what I have heard, it seems that the browsing is fine, file download is fast, but gaming or real time stuff like ICQ et al is a bit painful. I don't know if it is unusable or only "a different user experience". The satellite access would be potentially suitable for a live demonstration during an event in a location where no other means are available. Maybe we could - in a discussion about the plus and minus of III - move away from a discussion of specific technologies for the moment. The most important question is: Do you think this idea is worth pursuing and could you see yourself contributing to it.

Nevertheless, it is an interesting idea and one that is worth exploring in the future. Maybe not by a campaign organisation with a specific message, but by a different group with different goals. It is worth exploring further.

Different group with different goals?? Interesting way of shooting III down in the night it was born!

But seriously, maybe you could explain this last statement a bit further. Do you think an Interest Group like III would not be the right vehicle? Who/what would be?

-Hornet

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Hornet
The fact that Eircom is the biggest dial-up ISP and therefore would have a proportinally higher benefit from improved Internet awareness doesn't make the promotion vendor-biased.

What I said was: "that most of the money spent on the internet in Ireland goes to Eircom regardless of who the ISP is". This is not quite the same as what you are saying.

Let's be realistic here. You are talking about new dial-up users. This group would essential be promoting metered dial-up internet access among new users. The main beneficiary would be Eircom (as I said, regardless of which ISP they use) since Eircom own the platform.

Right now promoting the internet is the same as promoting big phone bills for Eircom.

You might argue that this target group may one day become the market for alternative broadband platforms. Maybe, but I don't believe the fundamental problem is lack of demand. I believe the fundamental problem is lack of competition.