Should Garda's Carry Guns ?

PH01

Quite a few Gardai carry a piece all ready - detectives and the like. But your ordinary flat foot? Hell no.

Stephen

Originally posted by Chaos-Engine
some should carry largish weapons

MP5's and teh like
no hand guns

dress different also

Sounds like the Italian Carabinieri. (spelling?)

domeara01

Originally posted by Chaos-Engine
some should carry largish weapons

MP5's and teh like
no hand guns

dress different also

there is a reason why they do have weapons. the last time i heard of them carrying sidearms they shot one of there own. sidearms (e.g. pistols) are used so that police officers can be mobile. if they carried rifles and they came under attack they would not be able to get the rifle, cock it and fire before they were dead. that is the sad fact of it. rifles are not the most mobile weapons and therefore are not suitable for the gardai. gunfire can only be used in the protection of you or your comerades life and in protection of government property. therefore there would not be much need for the gardai to carry arms.

in reaply to the question at hand then i would say no but the gardai are already armed in limerick.

Praetorian

Originally posted by Xterminator
Wow, guess what!

Gardai are human, and they make mistakes!!

Good god! Every criminal and his brother have a gun, (as demonstrated in Limerick, Finglas etc) or a replica so good the only way you can tell its not a gun, is when they pull the trigger (eg too late!)

When the guards were formed, society did not need (or want) armed police.

Now, if you want the guards to be able to provide effective protection against todays scum, they have to be armed.

It is not hard to establish a mandate for when and how a gun can be used. Every shot fired would automatically be reviewed to ensure the guard who fired it did so correctly, according to the mandate there given.

This would prevent the worst of abuses.

X

Gardai are human your correct. They make mistakes your correct. (In my opinion they make more mistakes than your average police force). If they all have guns...there will be more mistakes...more fatal mistakes.

I've already been belted in the wrong by a Garda in a club...I know a Garda that is a Garda because he gets to "beat people up". I've personally seen how their system doesnt work....Imagine how bad things might get if we arm these people...too many of them are already corrupt.

Wickhmar

I think they should be armed. However, you'd basically have to restructure the entire Gardai (dis?)organisation. No one respects the cops in this country, which is pretty typical Irish behaviour 'cos we don't respect each other.
For example; I've never seen bus, dart or train moshes like we do them here. It's really pathetic at times, especially when umbrellas are involved.
I guarantee you won't see that sh*t in France or Spain. Look at the level of respect we show each other in night clubs and you start to get a pretty good idea of where we stand socially as a nation.

We'd basically have to get our act together on a socio-economic level first. Then you need a proper Police Academy. Decent uniforms (our cops look like feckin' construction workers) AND decent weapons.

"Stop! Or I'll shout Stop again!"
Our police force is prehistoric.

When you see the police units in airports or train stations in any other european country carrying MP5s and the like, you'll think twice about doing anything 'funny'.
And they're submachine guns, they don't need half an hour to be cocked or readied.
Most criminals here just don't give a sh*t about the Guards. There's no respect or fear of justice at all. It's a real typical 'Ah sure...we'll get away with it. Like. No worries.' attitude that's one of the hallmarks of our society.

Your average Police Officer should carry a handgun as part of his equipment for upholding the law and special units in airports and high profile public places should be equipped with Kevlar and decent weaponry.

Then again, you'd have to screen the prospective candidates before you sent them to the ALL important ACADEMY.

But then again, I wonder. Are we all too busy drinking to really care?

elexes

they should only b given them under certian circumstances

like they managed to shoot 4 bullets in a raid in laois a while back and one round went through another guards kneck ...like ffs cs newbi

Mutz

Originally posted by elexes
they should only b given them under certian circumstances

like they managed to shoot 4 bullets in a raid in laois a while back and one round went through another guards kneck ...like ffs cs newbi

It actually Ricocheted (Rico-shayed sp?) off a wall when he missed the bank robber. It wasn't as if he just pointed his gun at his colleague.

But on the point of arming Gardaí for normal policing duties, I really dont think its a great idea. If one gets attacked by suprise, the attacker will gain himself a free gun.

SMG's (the ERU use the Uzi I think) should only be used in high threat situations. Hand Guns would be the preferable choice for normal policing duties if they were to be armed.

Cian

Originally posted by Stephen
Sounds like the Italian Carabinieri. (spelling?)

Yup, it does. One of the most feared and corrupt police forces in the World. Gardai are just corrupt, give em mp5's and we'll learn to fear em.

monument

NO!

Bard

No.

Leave the firearms to the Special Branch, the Emergency Response Unit, the 'Secret Service', the F.C.A., the Army, the select special armed Garda units, airline security officers, those licensed to hunt using rifles, the guys who start horse races, ...

... but not your average garda on the beat...

Yavvy

Lots of common sence here.

Garda shouldnt have guns. Jesus we're becoming americanised in so many ways its scary.

Guns are never a solution. They dont work in policing..the americans proved that in abundance. Now what ever happened to wistles !

[Iramus]

I think its wrong for the gardai to have guns..it was said before and it has to be said again: too many gardai are corrupt already.
just last week, a mate of mine was walkin home from a nightclub and asked the gardai if they could give him a lift home (apparently they're obliged to do so) cos he had no money for a taxi. The gardai drove him to the beach, bet him up and left him there, he may have been drunk and probably argued with them over somethin but come-on, what kinda police force d'ya call that.

Panda

hahaaaa,
I'd hate to see the Garda Shicaloni with guns,
there'd be an increase of at least double the amount of killings in the country if they did.... methinks.

Victor

Originally posted by Wickhmar
For example; I've never seen bus, dart or train moshes like we do them here. It's really pathetic at times, especially when umbrellas are involved.

?????????

Don1

Just think. If two Limerick teenagers had an AK-47 what else is in here. If said teenagers had gone on a "Falling Down" escapade how long would it have taken before they were stopped? A garda wouldn't haave a frickin chance. "Oh, could ya hang on there for a minute there sonny? We have to wait for the Special Branch to arrive...." *BANG*
At lest arm some of the guys (and gals)in big towns and citties.

Saruman

Absolutly not... its probably been said but i will say it again regardless... If Gardai carry guns it will mean criminals that never thought of it before will be almost forced to carry guns... Right now only a small number of the hard core criminals carry guns.

However it would probably not be a bad idea if they had other forms of protection. Like stun guns and pepper spray etc... something to dissable a criminal.

The Reaper

holy shít no way hosah! if u run from them they cud shout! god no!

Victor

Originally posted by Don1
If said teenagers had gone on a "Falling Down" escapade how long would it have taken before they were stopped? A garda wouldn't haave a frickin chance. "Oh, could ya hang on there for a minute there sonny? We have to wait for the Special Branch to arrive...."

The most powerful weapon in the world is a man with a radio.

Lemming

Originally posted by Victor
The most powerful weapon in the world is a man with a radio.

I've seen that ..... I used to work on those cycling rickshaw thingies a few years ago in 1st/2nd year in college when I saw a young garda dragging some little sh*te along by the collar with all his mates jumping around him etc etc on Grafton St.

Then they were pushing him across the st. Then he was pulling yer man back with him, etc, etc.

Then all you could hear was sirens ..... sirens from every direction possible all coming closer. Motorbikes, Vans, cars, including an unmarked that drove down Grafton St. about 60/70mph (at about 12.00am on a Sat. night!!!)

Everyone of the little twats got dragged away. One of them was giving abuse and got thrown into the unmarked car, after having his head smacked off the roof.

Radios ..... dangerous weapons I tell ye!!

Wickhmar

Victor, it was an example of how we don't respect each other, let alone the cops. We need to have a proper Police Academy and uniforms or some guns or Somethin'. That would cut down the corruption somewhat if they had the respect they need to function properly.

Or maybe we could give the Shicaloni replica Desert Eagles.

Or how about "dogs...with bees in their mouths...and when they bark, they shoot bees!"

Lemming

Originally posted by Wickhmar
We need to have a proper Police Academy and uniforms or some guns or Somethin'. That would cut down the corruption somewhat if they had the respect they need to function properly.

Respect is earned, not just given. Uniforms mean squat other than to identify you as belonging to a particular group/organisation.

Guns, as pointed elsewhere, will force criminals to go look for guns since they feel they'll need them.

Look at the UK, our closest neighbour. The (standard) police over there aren't armed either. And even for any police officer there to fire a single round, there is a very clear protocol to be followed and any deviation will result in swift censure.

Given the fiasco over the abberly situation do you TRUST the gardai to be able to give censure to officers? The complaints board is staffed by gardai.

Victor

The fundamental counterpoint to crime is detection, not punishment.

Originally posted by Wickhmar
Victor, it was an example of how we don't respect each other, let alone the cops.

Bad example then.

Originally posted by Wickhmar
We need to have a proper Police Academy

Templemore is improving, in particular by providing officer / management courses. One of the fundamental problems with the Garda was that it had no officer corp like the army.

Originally posted by Wickhmar
and uniforms

Whats wrong with the current ones?

Originally posted by Wickhmar
or some guns or Somethin'.

Respect does not grow at the end of a gun, resistance does.

Originally posted by Wickhmar
That would cut down the corruption somewhat if they had the respect they need to function properly.

Respect is something earned, it cannot be taken or given like a uniform or a gun.

memphis

Most definately not.

Personally, I don't believe that the answer to violence should be additional violence. Besides we have an armed section of the Gardi, I think thats suffiecent enough.

Bard

Originally posted by The Reaper
holy shít no way hosah! if u run from them they cud shout! god no!

Police Officer Fred, NYPD: "STOP OR I'LL SHOOT!"

Garda Paddy: "STOP! ... or I'LL SHOUT STOP AGAIN!"

lemondrop

Hail no......Gardas are bad enough on their power trips without adding guns to the equation....can you imagine???????Talk about trigger happy!!!!

Typedef

There is no need for the Gardaí to carry guns.

Tasers perhaps, if need be, but, I think that armed Gardaí walking down Grafton Street is a disproportionate response to percieved levels of crime.

If one wants to dent criminal activities, the best thing to do, is to inunciate a zero tolerance policy for crime and increase the number of police, not increase the potential officer (x) has to cause serious physical damage to criminal (x).

In my opinion.

Wickhmar

Originally posted by Victor
Templemore is improving, in particular by providing officer / management courses. One of the fundamental problems with the Garda was that it had no officer corp like the army.

Exactely.

Give them tasers instead of guns if you have to. Either way, some action should be taken to improve the existing force. Put more money into Templemore! I can't emphasize enough, the need for proper institutional change. The respect will be earned naturally over time, but only if changes happen at the base level.

It's all in the schooling people.

Then give them guns. Maybe not the average copper on the beat as was said earlier, but definitely arm the Airport Police. Or assign a squad of the Special Branch to them.

Victor

Originally posted by Wickhmar
Or assign a squad of the Special Branch to them.

Already done, the problem is them going back to their 'home' stations to clock out (or get more donoughts).

Pimp Ninja

There is nothing wrong with the Gardaí having guns.. The gun crime is definately going up, Take for example last night there was a shooting in Inchicore, 5 mins from our City centre.. At the very least they should have some form of non lethal diterrant like bean bag guns, or tazers or mace..

These guys had a stolen car and a shotgun, when the Garda car simply followed them, they were shot at.
Ok later the armed unit was called in, and shot back at the criminals, but the point I want to make is that the Gardaí in the car in the first place had no means to defend themselves.

With thugs like this on the streets, I believe that the Gardaí should be trained in their use, and then they should be handed out..

Like bard said above

Police Officer Fred, NYPD: "STOP OR I'LL SHOOT!"

Garda Paddy: "STOP! ... or I'LL SHOUT STOP AGAIN!"

The majority of these people just dont listen to the gardaí.

Then again, it always brings the arguement up of, If the gardaí are armed, wont the criminals just go and arm themselves that little bit more...

Rick Deckard

Pimp Ninja wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with the Gardaí having guns.. The gun crime is definately going up, Take for example last night there was a shooting in Inchicore, 5 mins from our City centre.. At the very least they should have some form of non lethal diterrant like bean bag guns, or tazers or mace..

These guys had a stolen car and a shotgun, when the Garda car simply followed them, they were shot at.
Ok later the armed unit was called in, and shot back at the criminals, but the point I want to make is that the Gardaí in the car in the first place had no means to defend themselves.

With thugs like this on the streets, I believe that the Gardaí should be trained in their use, and then they should be handed out..

Like bard said above


The majority of these people just dont listen to the gardaí.

Then again, it always brings the arguement up of, If the gardaí are armed, wont the criminals just go and arm themselves that little bit more...

+1