Should Garda's Carry Guns ?

NeVeR

Well i just thought i'd ask if you thought Garda should carry Gun's like the US Police,

If you look at todays crimes and killings there are alot more Gun related crimes, It's getting mad, and they know Gards dont carry guns ,

Washout

Definetly Not!!!We have an armed branch which is more than sufficient...

guns are carried by police in the states cause of the ludicrous gun laws....we dont have that problem here in ireland

NeVeR

yea i see your point, But Guns are getting more and more easier to get in Ireland.

Vuk

*shudder*

The thoughts of some gardai in charge of a baton scare me. Imagine how the Reclaim the Streets fiasco could have concluded with guns?

The ERU have had their fair share of criticisms concerning their use of guns.

I am of the belief that if both the Gardai and the criminals are both armed to the teeth, the chances of instigating a gun battle increase with every twitchy finger.

The Gopher

Im unsure.Sure,guns can be an advantage in foiling an armed robbery but there is the possibility that they could use the guns in a rage over a minor matter.
For example I think most people haveargued with a guard after having too much to drink.What if you are so drunk that if the guard insults you or is being unreasonably and you,without thinking,push him to the ground or even hit him a box,that he isnt going to shoot you in a blind rage.Just to clarify I have never attacked a guard and am not endorsing it,but suppose you were so drunk that you managed to get into this situation.

I myself know what murderous rage is all about.Once at a club some skanger who had been going around all night boxing people at random and running away whacked me as I came up the stairs and ran before Id a chance to fight him.He eventually got thrown out but earlier I had seen a brick lying loose on the ground outside.
I told my friends,and I was deadly serious,that if when we came out if that brick was still there and he was still about I was going to break his face with it.In all honesty if I had a gun with me that night I would have had no hesitation in shooting him infront of a crowd of people.Sure I would regret it afterwards if I were caught but at that moment I just didnt give a fcuk about the consequences of what would have happened.So there is no telling how a guard might over react if armed.
It has certainly happened in the USA before in similiar cicrumstances.

Shad0r

No no and no again. Defintely not for the normal garda on the beat.

Dont be at yourself

Definitely not.

Jim

oi, u, no.

Cian

No way. I was at the may 6th reclaim the streets. Absolutely no way.

Pepe LeFrits

Christ, NO.

Mossy Monk

no ****ing way!!!! some members of the gardaí are bad enough as it is

yellum

Wasn't it in Athy at the foiled robbery where they shot the robbers to pieces ? Didn't they also shoot a guy that was up the road by accident and injury themselves.

Then there was the ERU taking down that John Carthy guy. Shot from behind. When the trained "experts" can't get it right why should the plebs on the beat get a gun ?

Xterminator

Wow, guess what!

Gardai are human, and they make mistakes!!

Good god! Every criminal and his brother have a gun, (as demonstrated in Limerick, Finglas etc) or a replica so good the only way you can tell its not a gun, is when they pull the trigger (eg too late!)

When the guards were formed, society did not need (or want) armed police.

Now, if you want the guards to be able to provide effective protection against todays scum, they have to be armed.

It is not hard to establish a mandate for when and how a gun can be used. Every shot fired would automatically be reviewed to ensure the guard who fired it did so correctly, according to the mandate there given.

This would prevent the worst of abuses.

X

oeNeo

Yes and no.

Normal police patrolling the streets shouldn't I think, but just say there's a robbery or a riot of some kind, armed police should arrive mainly just to scare people and not to use them.

Ofcourse there is a much greater argument against having them and after thinking about it more it's probably a better idea for them not to have them at all.

azezil

Not yet, voilent crime is on the rise but i don't think it necessary yet.

/side note detectives do carry them.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

hunkypex

senario: police carries gun> copper is overwhelmed< gun taken off him> shot with his own gun< happens in america
it happened in northern ireland too

Victor

When was the last time a Garda was shot? Jerry McCabe?

Arming the average Garda will only encourage criminals to arm themselves.

Sangre

Originally posted by Xterminator
It is not hard to establish a mandate for when and how a gun can be used. Every shot fired would automatically be reviewed to ensure the guard who fired it did so correctly, according to the mandate there given.

This would prevent the worst of abuses.

X

A lot of good that does after someone is shot/killed. In the heat of the moment a garda isn't going to consider anything like a mandate


/Edit: Just like prison stops criminals? I know its stupid comparing gardai to criminals, but not many people think of the consequences when they're surrounded by 10 knackers

Samson

Originally posted by NeVeR
yea i see your point, But Guns are getting more and more easier to get in Ireland.

What the fuck are you on about?
Guns are not easy to get hold of in this country.

As the owner of two legally held firearms, I must state that in my experience guns are not easy to get hold of, there are a lot of hoops one must jump through.
Even in the wrong circles they are not particularly easyt to come across.

Spunog UIE

nope they are dangerous enough as is.

bugler

Originally posted by Samson
What the fuck are you on about?
Guns are not easy to get hold of in this country.

Stop pissing on the scaremonger fire!

Guns are everywhere, I live near Limerick, and can't walk at night without getting shot at! (By the ERU admittedly)

Victor

Originally posted by bugler
Guns are everywhere, I live near Limerick, and can't walk at night without getting shot at! (By the ERU admittedly)

Damn, can't even go about a bit of peaceful petrol bombing these days.

ozt9vdujny3srf

heh but seriously, if the Gardai can't ahndle a few protestors and stop them from getting into shannon airport hangar, then they are hardly competent enough to use guns.

Anyway, guns for guards would be more of a self defense measure. i.e. against other ppl with guns.

I Can't rememeber hearing about a Garda being shot b4 (although i am sure it has happened it is very rare)

Cian

was going to post this earlier but boards was down

Originally posted by Xterminator
Wow, guess what!

Gardai are human, and they make mistakes!!

Usually these mistakes are non-fatal, and are easily covered up. When's the last time you saw a garda charged with assault bar the may 6th incident?

Good god! Every criminal and his brother have a gun, (as demonstrated in Limerick, Finglas etc) or a replica so good the only way you can tell its not a gun, is when they pull the trigger (eg too late!)

A friend of mine was involved in an incident in finglas. She's still against arming guards despite having a gun in her face. So am I, and I have been threatened with a gun several times.

When the guards were formed, society did not need (or want) armed police.

Now, if you want the guards to be able to provide effective protection against todays scum, they have to be armed.

Look at the poll. Society still doesnt want it. (/me hopes poll results stand the test of time )

It is not hard to establish a mandate for when and how a gun can be used. Every shot fired would automatically be reviewed to ensure the guard who fired it did so correctly, according to the mandate there given.

This would prevent the worst of abuses.

Just like the garda review board effectively polices the police. Yeah right. Face it, we have a prehistoric police force (btw, not my quote; paraphrased from the former head of the london metropolitan police).

Samson

Originally posted by bugler
Stop pissing on the scaremonger fire!

Guns are everywhere, I live near Limerick, and can't walk at night without getting shot at! (By the ERU admittedly)

Yes, of course, I should have prefaced what I typed with:
The following statement does not apply to Limerick.

Turner

Originally posted by The Gopher
For example I think most people have argued with a guard after having too much to drink.What if you are so drunk that if the guard insults you or is being unreasonably and you,without thinking,push him to the ground or even hit him a box,that he isnt going to shoot you in a blind rage.

If you do this you deserve to be shot.

Originally posted by Samson
The following statement does not apply to Limerick.

Or Dundalk.

woosaysdan

whats the point in giving them gun? there never around when theres trouble anyway!!!

Victor

Originally posted by Cian
Usually these mistakes are non-fatal, and are easily covered up. When's the last time you saw a garda charged with assault bar the may 6th incident?

Typically they aren't, but the Garda has forked out €6m for compensation claims over the last few years.

Cian

Originally posted by Victor
Typically they aren't, but the Garda has forked out €6m for compensation claims over the last few years.

I don't feel that financial compensation is adequate when you're talking about the lack of individual culpability within a government agency.

Chaos-Engine

some should carry largish weapons

MP5's and teh like
no hand guns

dress different also

PH01

Quite a few Gardai carry a piece all ready - detectives and the like. But your ordinary flat foot? Hell no.

Stephen

Originally posted by Chaos-Engine
some should carry largish weapons

MP5's and teh like
no hand guns

dress different also

Sounds like the Italian Carabinieri. (spelling?)

domeara01

Originally posted by Chaos-Engine
some should carry largish weapons

MP5's and teh like
no hand guns

dress different also

there is a reason why they do have weapons. the last time i heard of them carrying sidearms they shot one of there own. sidearms (e.g. pistols) are used so that police officers can be mobile. if they carried rifles and they came under attack they would not be able to get the rifle, cock it and fire before they were dead. that is the sad fact of it. rifles are not the most mobile weapons and therefore are not suitable for the gardai. gunfire can only be used in the protection of you or your comerades life and in protection of government property. therefore there would not be much need for the gardai to carry arms.

in reaply to the question at hand then i would say no but the gardai are already armed in limerick.

Praetorian

Originally posted by Xterminator
Wow, guess what!

Gardai are human, and they make mistakes!!

Good god! Every criminal and his brother have a gun, (as demonstrated in Limerick, Finglas etc) or a replica so good the only way you can tell its not a gun, is when they pull the trigger (eg too late!)

When the guards were formed, society did not need (or want) armed police.

Now, if you want the guards to be able to provide effective protection against todays scum, they have to be armed.

It is not hard to establish a mandate for when and how a gun can be used. Every shot fired would automatically be reviewed to ensure the guard who fired it did so correctly, according to the mandate there given.

This would prevent the worst of abuses.

X

Gardai are human your correct. They make mistakes your correct. (In my opinion they make more mistakes than your average police force). If they all have guns...there will be more mistakes...more fatal mistakes.

I've already been belted in the wrong by a Garda in a club...I know a Garda that is a Garda because he gets to "beat people up". I've personally seen how their system doesnt work....Imagine how bad things might get if we arm these people...too many of them are already corrupt.

Wickhmar

I think they should be armed. However, you'd basically have to restructure the entire Gardai (dis?)organisation. No one respects the cops in this country, which is pretty typical Irish behaviour 'cos we don't respect each other.
For example; I've never seen bus, dart or train moshes like we do them here. It's really pathetic at times, especially when umbrellas are involved.
I guarantee you won't see that sh*t in France or Spain. Look at the level of respect we show each other in night clubs and you start to get a pretty good idea of where we stand socially as a nation.

We'd basically have to get our act together on a socio-economic level first. Then you need a proper Police Academy. Decent uniforms (our cops look like feckin' construction workers) AND decent weapons.

"Stop! Or I'll shout Stop again!"
Our police force is prehistoric.

When you see the police units in airports or train stations in any other european country carrying MP5s and the like, you'll think twice about doing anything 'funny'.
And they're submachine guns, they don't need half an hour to be cocked or readied.
Most criminals here just don't give a sh*t about the Guards. There's no respect or fear of justice at all. It's a real typical 'Ah sure...we'll get away with it. Like. No worries.' attitude that's one of the hallmarks of our society.

Your average Police Officer should carry a handgun as part of his equipment for upholding the law and special units in airports and high profile public places should be equipped with Kevlar and decent weaponry.

Then again, you'd have to screen the prospective candidates before you sent them to the ALL important ACADEMY.

But then again, I wonder. Are we all too busy drinking to really care?

elexes

they should only b given them under certian circumstances

like they managed to shoot 4 bullets in a raid in laois a while back and one round went through another guards kneck ...like ffs cs newbi

Mutz

Originally posted by elexes
they should only b given them under certian circumstances

like they managed to shoot 4 bullets in a raid in laois a while back and one round went through another guards kneck ...like ffs cs newbi

It actually Ricocheted (Rico-shayed sp?) off a wall when he missed the bank robber. It wasn't as if he just pointed his gun at his colleague.

But on the point of arming Gardaí for normal policing duties, I really dont think its a great idea. If one gets attacked by suprise, the attacker will gain himself a free gun.

SMG's (the ERU use the Uzi I think) should only be used in high threat situations. Hand Guns would be the preferable choice for normal policing duties if they were to be armed.

Cian

Originally posted by Stephen
Sounds like the Italian Carabinieri. (spelling?)

Yup, it does. One of the most feared and corrupt police forces in the World. Gardai are just corrupt, give em mp5's and we'll learn to fear em.

monument

NO!

Bard

No.

Leave the firearms to the Special Branch, the Emergency Response Unit, the 'Secret Service', the F.C.A., the Army, the select special armed Garda units, airline security officers, those licensed to hunt using rifles, the guys who start horse races, ...

... but not your average garda on the beat...

Yavvy

Lots of common sence here.

Garda shouldnt have guns. Jesus we're becoming americanised in so many ways its scary.

Guns are never a solution. They dont work in policing..the americans proved that in abundance. Now what ever happened to wistles !

[Iramus]

I think its wrong for the gardai to have guns..it was said before and it has to be said again: too many gardai are corrupt already.
just last week, a mate of mine was walkin home from a nightclub and asked the gardai if they could give him a lift home (apparently they're obliged to do so) cos he had no money for a taxi. The gardai drove him to the beach, bet him up and left him there, he may have been drunk and probably argued with them over somethin but come-on, what kinda police force d'ya call that.

Panda

hahaaaa,
I'd hate to see the Garda Shicaloni with guns,
there'd be an increase of at least double the amount of killings in the country if they did.... methinks.

Victor

Originally posted by Wickhmar
For example; I've never seen bus, dart or train moshes like we do them here. It's really pathetic at times, especially when umbrellas are involved.

?????????

Don1

Just think. If two Limerick teenagers had an AK-47 what else is in here. If said teenagers had gone on a "Falling Down" escapade how long would it have taken before they were stopped? A garda wouldn't haave a frickin chance. "Oh, could ya hang on there for a minute there sonny? We have to wait for the Special Branch to arrive...." *BANG*
At lest arm some of the guys (and gals)in big towns and citties.

Saruman

Absolutly not... its probably been said but i will say it again regardless... If Gardai carry guns it will mean criminals that never thought of it before will be almost forced to carry guns... Right now only a small number of the hard core criminals carry guns.

However it would probably not be a bad idea if they had other forms of protection. Like stun guns and pepper spray etc... something to dissable a criminal.

The Reaper

holy shít no way hosah! if u run from them they cud shout! god no!

Victor

Originally posted by Don1
If said teenagers had gone on a "Falling Down" escapade how long would it have taken before they were stopped? A garda wouldn't haave a frickin chance. "Oh, could ya hang on there for a minute there sonny? We have to wait for the Special Branch to arrive...."

The most powerful weapon in the world is a man with a radio.

Lemming

Originally posted by Victor
The most powerful weapon in the world is a man with a radio.

I've seen that ..... I used to work on those cycling rickshaw thingies a few years ago in 1st/2nd year in college when I saw a young garda dragging some little sh*te along by the collar with all his mates jumping around him etc etc on Grafton St.

Then they were pushing him across the st. Then he was pulling yer man back with him, etc, etc.

Then all you could hear was sirens ..... sirens from every direction possible all coming closer. Motorbikes, Vans, cars, including an unmarked that drove down Grafton St. about 60/70mph (at about 12.00am on a Sat. night!!!)

Everyone of the little twats got dragged away. One of them was giving abuse and got thrown into the unmarked car, after having his head smacked off the roof.

Radios ..... dangerous weapons I tell ye!!

Wickhmar

Victor, it was an example of how we don't respect each other, let alone the cops. We need to have a proper Police Academy and uniforms or some guns or Somethin'. That would cut down the corruption somewhat if they had the respect they need to function properly.

Or maybe we could give the Shicaloni replica Desert Eagles.

Or how about "dogs...with bees in their mouths...and when they bark, they shoot bees!"