Darina Allens Hubby Pleads Guilty to Child Porn

Hobart

http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0116/porn.html

(PS Nice URL RTE)

Hellrazer

9 MONTHS SUSPENDED SENTENCE

---

Like everything else in this Fu<king country its a JOKE.9 months suspended sentence versus what those kids have to remember for every day of their lives.

They should hang the Bastard.Or castrate him.Scum bag.I know if anything like that was ever done to my 5 year old the accused would never see the inside of the court room.Id say he`ll have to leave Ireland now.....They`re be plenty of people gunning for him.

And they still have no sex-offenders register over here.

*****************Rant over*************

DadaKopf

We may have a celebrity's paedophile husband but the UK's light entertainment industry is in a state of crisis. I mean, Matthew Kelly is one thing, but Pete Townshend?

There's something rotten at the heard ot LWT.

mike65

I was listening to the lunch time news as the story broke, they did they're darndest not to mention who his wife was. The sentence is light, though I'd like to think that treatment, rather than just locking someone up would be possible.

Mike.

Shinji

They should hang the Bastard.Or castrate him.Scum bag.

http://www.thinkofthechildren.co.uk/




I presume it's the indignant fury and righteous rage you're in that prevented you from noting that the man hasn't actually been accused of abusing any kids himself, and hasn't done anything to anyone's five year old in person?

Child porn is obviously wrong on a hell of a lot of levels, but paedophilia is a mental illness - and it's very important to recognise the difference between a paedophile who looks at pictures of children on the internet, and a paedophile who actually abuses children. "Hang 'em and flog 'em" isn't the answer - and in fact, marks you as more of an unpleasant animal than Tim Allen is.

DeVore

"They (ISPCC) also stated that these convictions represent a significant reminder to parents to be extremely vigilant regarding their children's use of the Internet."

Or what, he'll send penis shaped sound waves at them??

These kids werent abused over the internet, the pictures were distributed over the net.

While I agree that parents should monitor their childs use of the net I would question if such scaremongering is really the answer.


I also think the sentence was far too light, he should have been at least required to seek treatment. Paedophilia is a condition, jail wont do anything for it but community work is a joke.

Where are they going to have him do it? An old folks home??

I've seen what the cops in this country have to use by way of equipment and resources to track this stuff (I worked with them once a few years back chasing a bloke from who posted on Usenet and it found its way onto Boards). Its a f*cking joke.

If the minister was so concerned, he'd issue some funding to them so they could upgrade from p120's

DeV.

Hellrazer

Thanks for the vote of confidence Shinji.
Im assuming you dont have any kids because if/when you do I would put money on it that your "its a sickness" attitude would change.
Yep it is the rage etc that Im in that made me make that statement and as far as Im concerned downloading child porn is every bit as bad as carrying it out yourself.
I dont think Im more of an animal than this Paedophile and Im sure there are a lot of people who would agree with the my previous rant/statement.
Richie

krankykitty

These kids werent abused over the internet, the pictures were distributed over the net.

Fact is, if children were made pose for pics like this they WERE abused.. perhaps not by Allen but by somebody. Even though you may only be downloading this stuff, you are in a way providing a customer base for the sick ****ers who do this sort of thing.

Meh

Originally posted by krankykitty
Fact is, if children were made pose for pics like this they WERE abused.. perhaps not by Allen but by somebody. Even though you may only be downloading this stuff, you are in a way providing a customer base for the sick ****ers who do this sort of thing.

Nobody is disputing that. But this case still doesn't show any reason to be worried about your kids using the Internet. There are two separate issues here:

1. The use of the Internet by pædophiles to distribute child pornography
2. The use of the Internet by pædophiles to contact new victims

Has there been even one single case in this country where a child was abused by someone they met over the net? The media and certain groups would have us believe that there's a pædophile lurking in every chatroom. In reality, a child is much safer on the internet than they are walking down the street.

Originally posted by Hellrazer:
And they still have no sex-offenders register over here.

Yes there is.

Shinji

Im assuming you dont have any kids because if/when you do I would put money on it that your "its a sickness" attitude would change.

I wouldn't be so sure. I mean, I've noticed that some parents turn utterly stupid and neanderthal as soon as an issue like this is raised, but then again I'm not convinced they weren't every bit as stupid before the kids were even born.

Funny how I've yet to meet a parent who can answer the question about what they'd do if, in fifteen years time, THEIR child was found to be looking at kiddy porn...

And yes, lots of people would agree with your previous statement - just like lots of scumbags turn out at court hearings for this sort of thing to scream at the accused and throw stones. Hell, some of them even bring along their kids, nice family day out - a public outpouring of sickening hatred is a wonderful environment for children, after all.

The ignorance and innate hatred of people like your good self sickens me far more than Tim Allen ever will, and all the more so because there are so many fucking animals like you around. I suppose you're bringing up your kids to be hate-filled ignorant scumbags in your image?

Christ, I know which of you I'd let near children...

logic1

Originally posted by Shinji
paedophilia is a mental illness

I've had quite alot of reason to think about this recently and have come to the conclusion that describing paedophilia as a mental illness isn't altogether correct. It seems to fend off this disgusting crime as simply something someone developed like a bad case of flu. I think it goes much deeper than this. It's a preference that some people are born with or that people developed over years of psycholgical imbalance. Personally I think most paedophilia can't be "treated" or "cured" it's something that some people are born with. A type of incorrect wiring in the brain. Granted some develop paedophilic tendencies due to childhood trauma or psychological abuse when they were young but I still would never regard it asd a mental illness that can be effectively treated and cured so to speak.

and it's very important to recognise the difference between a paedophile who looks at pictures of children on the internet, and a paedophile who actually abuses children.

Couldn't agree more. There's many many different levels, some relatively harmless while some are deadly dangerous.

"Hang 'em and flog 'em" isn't the answer - and in fact, marks you as more of an unpleasant animal than Tim Allen is.

True, but I think the tendency to shout for the harshest of treatments against paedophiles is a most base instinct within balanced humans who see this crime as a monstrosity.

But again it isn't the right attitude if we're being politically correct.

.logic.

seamus

Originally posted by logic1
I've had quite alot of reason to think about this recently and have come to the conclusion that describing paedophilia as a mental illness isn't altogether correct. It seems to fend off this disgusting crime as simply something someone developed like a bad case of flu. I think it goes much deeper than this. It's a preference that some people are born with or that people developed over years of psycholgical imbalance. Personally I think most paedophilia can't be "treated" or "cured" it's something that some people are born with. A type of incorrect wiring in the brain. Granted some develop paedophilic tendencies due to childhood trauma or psychological abuse when they were young but I still would never regard it asd a mental illness that can be effectively treated and cured so to speak.

Yep. There seems to be a tendency to treat peadophiles as 'evil' and as devils, and as criminals, simply for being peadophiles. I think the distinction needs to be made between being a peadophile, and being an active peadophile. The crimes that people get locked up for are possession of child porn, creation of child porn, child abuse, i.e. - Peadophilia in itself is not a crime. I've drawn comparisions with Podophilia (foot fetish) before - both are 'philes' - fetishes, the only difference that active peadophiles feed their fetish through the abuse or suffering of others. Podophiles get their kicks through harmless means.

And such is the difference - people who give themselves pleasure through the unconsenting abuse of others are mentally ill, not evil or 'deviants'. Whether someone's tendencies for these things can be removed or not, still needs to be seen, but there definitaly needs to be greater awareness and research done into it, as opposed to scaremongering and blaming the internet.

I think it's safe to assume that not all podophiles actively pursue their fetish, so by the same logic, there are plenty of 'safe' peadophiles out there.

After all, looking at (regular) porn on the net, and actually going out and finding yourself a prostitute are two things, worlds apart.......

Hellrazer

Originally posted by Shinji
I wouldn't be so sure. I mean, I've noticed that some parents turn utterly stupid and neanderthal as soon as an issue like this is raised, but then again I'm not convinced they weren't every bit as stupid before the kids were even born.

Funny how I've yet to meet a parent who can answer the question about what they'd do if, in fifteen years time, THEIR child was found to be looking at kiddy porn...

And yes, lots of people would agree with your previous statement - just like lots of scumbags turn out at court hearings for this sort of thing to scream at the accused and throw stones. Hell, some of them even bring along their kids, nice family day out - a public outpouring of sickening hatred is a wonderful environment for children, after all.

The ignorance and innate hatred of people like your good self sickens me far more than Tim Allen ever will, and all the more so because there are so many fucking animals like you around. I suppose you're bringing up your kids to be hate-filled ignorant scumbags in your image?

Christ, I know which of you I'd let near children...

Ok Firstly I stand by my previous statement(s) that I think Tim Allen is scum and should be locked up/castrated whatever.Its my opinion thats all!!!
Secondly my rant was over the extremely light sentence that this paedophile received in the current climate where these type of crimes are being reported every day.
Thirdly Im not one of those people who will stand out side a court and scream abuse at the accused,Im a concerned parent who is worried that there is too much of this going on at the minute in this country and fear for my childs safety.
Fourthly I may sound like a "hate filled ignorant scumbag" but just because I rant over an issue that I feel strongly about doesnt make me one.
Lastly it sounds to me like you condone(maybe not condone but certainly dont see it for the serious crime that it is) this mans behaviour and if so please explain why you are sticking up for this man.And in the spirit of discussion,rather than launch personal attacks on me over statements Ive made please put forward YOUR ideas for the way that these sick crimes should be handled.
Richie.

pro_gnostic_8

Originally posted by krankykitty
Even though you may only be downloading this stuff, you are in a way providing a customer base for the sick ****ers who do this sort of thing.

Indeed, and thereby perpetuating this worldwide exploitation of children.

The "passive" paedophile who as yet has not himself sexually abused a child is still very culpable IMHO of a heinous crime by downloading these images. Anyone viewing these images is witnessing a criminal act perpetrated upon the most defenceless of all human beings, and is contributing directly to the future abuse of other children.

Justice was not served in the ridiculously lenient sentencing of Allen.

Dr_Teeth

Thirdly Im not one of those people who will stand out side a court and scream abuse at the accused,Im a concerned parent who is worried that there is too much of this going on at the minute in this country and fear for my childs safety.

I think you need to get a bit of perspective here mate. I contend that less of this kind of abuse happening in this country than ever before here, purely based on the fact that we as a society continue to advance ourselves over time. Because of our advances these crimes are reported, and the guilty punished (in theory) much more often. However a side-effect of this is massively increased press coverage and scare mongering.

I don't think people should be scared. Scared people do dumb things - like our friends across the atlantic it would appear. We are not in the grips of some kind of epidemic.

Lastly it sounds to me like you condone(maybe not condone but certainly dont see it for the serious crime that it is) this mans behaviour and if so please explain why you are sticking up for this man.

"OMG if you disagree with me you must be with THEMMMM!! seize him!"

Sorry Shinji the mob has spoken hehe.

Teeth.

pro_gnostic_8

Originally posted by Shinji
there are so many fucking animals like you around. I suppose you're bringing up your kids to be hate-filled ignorant scumbags in your image?

I know Hellrazor is more than capable of defending himself.
And I know too that I'm a relative newcomer to these boards, but since I've joined I have mostly hung out around Humanities and I've never read such a downright offensive invective as this against another poster. I, for one, feel compelled to say that this is just "not on".

And........

Christ, I know which of you I'd let near children...

How about venting your spleen against a proven /convicted paedophile (Tim Allen) rather than making this insulting remark towards a fellow member of the Boards community.

pro_gnostic_8

Originally posted by Dr_Teeth
I think you need to get a bit of perspective here mate. I contend that less of this kind of abuse happening in this country than ever before here,

Teeth.

With respect, Teeth, I don't think this is a relativistic issue. Whether paedophilia is more common or less so nowadays is beside the point (and arguable). The issue is about a suspended sentence handed down to a particular proven paedophile and the Irish judiciary's lenient attitute to paedophilia in general.

daveg

Ritchie - I totally agree with you. 9 Months suspended sentance what a joke. He should have been given a jail sentance.

"Hang 'em and flog 'em" isn't the answer - and in fact, marks you as more of an unpleasant animal than Tim Allen is.

I presume it's the indignant fury and righteous rage you're in that prevented you from noting that the man hasn't actually been accused of abusing any kids himself, and hasn't done anything to anyone's five year old in person?

Shinji - your a muppet. Sounds to me like you dont think that prick did anything wrong. He was found with more than 1,000 pictures of children being raped you idiot. Sure its not as bad as him being a peodophile but he's still a sick **** who deserves more than a suspended sentence.

Stark

I actually agree with what Shinji said, you're just paraphrasing him. To be honest I think there should be more emphasis on tackling the root causes of paedophilia as an illness. It obviously seems to be rampant at the moment, so there must be something deeply wrong at the heart of society. With our culture at the moment, it would be virtually impossible for someone who found themselves developing those tendencies to seek treatment without the reactions shinji described.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

He was found with more than 1,000 pictures of children being raped you idiot.

actually not all the pictures were of children being raped, afaik some were just simple nude posed pics or whatever.

*shrug*
not a very big point, but still..

Hellrazer

Originally posted by k.oriordan
I actually agree with what Shinji said, you're just paraphrasing him. To be honest I think there should be more emphasis on tackling the root causes of paedophilia as an illness. It obviously seems to be rampant at the moment, so there must be something deeply wrong at the heart of society. With our culture at the moment, it would be virtually impossible for someone who found themselves developing those tendencies to seek treatment without the reactions shinji described.

Im sick of people blaming everything on this being an illness and that being an illness.Its the same with smack addicts who are robbing old ladies with syringes to feed their "sickness".
The FACTS are that this sick fu<k downloaded pictures of kids as young as 5 engaging in sexual acts with adults.THATS IT----THEY`RE THE CRIMES THAT WERE CARRIED OUT.THE FACTS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.
And his sentence should reflect that.And people should stop saying that this man needs treatment over prison.He needs to be locked up so that his sick sexual deviant fantasies NEVER EVER get a chance to be played out in real life.And his treatment can be carried out in prison while he`s mulling over the things he`s done.Remember hes got off extremely lightly on these charges(no prison sentence)---Would you let him around your kids?????I certainly wouldnt.
The sooner someone decides to start getting tough on these perverts and realises that d/l is akin to abusing these kids themselves then the sooner the problem can be dealt with.In the next few weeks there are going to be a lot more cases like this

---

Judges,Garda etc have all been found with this stuff on their PCs --Lets see how the courts deal with these.Knowing that they`re Judges etc they`ll probably get off just as lightly.....

seamus

I actually agree with what Shinji said, you're just paraphrasing him. To be honest I think there should be more emphasis on tackling the root causes of paedophilia as an illness. It obviously seems to be rampant at the moment, so there must be something deeply wrong at the heart of society. With our culture at the moment, it would be virtually impossible for someone who found themselves developing those tendencies to seek treatment without the reactions shinji described.

That's the thing. It's not new. It's been around for millenia. In ancient greece, the young boy's body was idolised, and young boys were 'abused' as part of the norm. This is something which was swept under the rug when Christianity lost it's way and blanketed everything. The only problem is that this is a mental illness (as opposed to homosexuality for example), and is something which we must now face up to and find a way to deal with it.

hussey

I agree and disagree with some points here,

Looking at pictures is one thing and doing it is another

but looking at pictures may lead to the other, i.e. they could develop an 'urge'

But Prison isn't Necessary the answer, as alot of P's are locked up in there own unit, ie surround by others P's .. this is not healthy

and on a note regarding beating them up etc.
This is all well and good etc. but what happened if someone was innocent, when the news of the world published pictures of P's, and elderly gentleman was mistaken as one and he was hospitalised

Also about four years ago in Ard Scoil Ris in artane/Malihide Road, The news of teh world printed a headline saying one teacher was being investied(sorry spelling terrible) for child abuse

This came about by a couple of kids haveing a laugh on a school retreat. They were talking to a guidence person, who told them anything tehy said would be confidential. They made up a story about a teacher, and how he tried it on with kids
The Guidence counciller then told the school or garda, the teacher was suspended, the boys later confessed they made it up, the teacher had to be let go, and (the last I heard) he hasn't worked as teacher since, he had a daughter suffering from MS at the time

Clintons Cat

Slightly off topic but concerning the Pete Townsend arrest

one of the most startling facts of Operation Ore,is the number of subscribers to this website.In the UK alone 7000 people handed over their credit card details to veiw child pornography,
Take as a standard charge for porn sites as $25 a subscription peroid and thats an income of $225,000.
Thats not forgetting lucrative black market sidelines such as Credit card cloning,blackmail and trading card details.
Bearing in mind the UK was only a subsidery of a much larger US market and suddenly you are dealing with a very lucrative market.
I am anaware how much of the content of the site was original material,and how much was gathered from other parts of the web.though one would suspect that original content or the promise of original content would be one of the hooks with which to induce clients to subscribe,
Anyone who gave over their details,is funding child exploitation and deserves to be dealt with harshly by the law.I think a sentence in line with that recieved by Gary Glitter would be appopriate.

Jak

God the hysteria and "all or nothing" approach witnessed in this thread is a bit sad.

Personally Yes I agree that he deserves more than a suspended sentence. A fixed term jail sentence would be appropriate.

However I would most certainly distinguish between a repentent Tim Allen (who sought therapy prior to arrest) viewing such material (I accept he and others were providing a market) - and the people who actually abduct and abuse thereby providing the supply side of the market.

It wouldn't bother me for example if the killer of "Holly and Jessica" was executed, but I think it is a little draconian to be calling for the same measure to be leveled on Tim Allen.

I see a distinction between those guilty of viewing the material and those who commit the acts. Both parties should be brough to justice, however there is likely some hope for the former, and I don't particularly care what happens to the latter.

Also, this point was made, but ...

1,000 pictures of children being raped you idiot

He had downloaded only approx 90, of which none were involved in sexual acts. They were simply unclothed. It does not change much in the case, my point is simply misinformation is rife in these sort of discussions.

On a side note - Hellrazer you must live in a very frightened state with all the bombings, abductions, natural disasters etc. that go on every day in our neighbourhoods. I would be afraid to let my child out of my sight ... ever ... if I lived in your world.

JAK.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

amp

Hellrazer - calm down, this thread is not here for you to vent your anger

daveg - do not resort to calling people names. If you disagree with someones argument, attack that, not the person.

Let's keep this debate calm and civil.

Now. Back on topic...

Talliesin

It doesn't matter whether pædophilia is an illness, a congenital sexual preference or whatever. Pædophilia per se is not the issue.

Abusers of children, whether those who directly abuse children or those who abuse them through pornography are not always pædophiles, and pædophiles aren't always abusers.

Many, probably the majority, of abusers of children don't have a sexual preference for children. The abuse occurs for a variety of reasons, some apply to attackers who are strangers, some to those who know the children, some to professional abusers (pimps, pornographers):

1. Children are easier victims than adults.
2. Disabled children are very much easier targets than adults. In particular children with Down's Syndrome are very trusting and are deliberately targetted by some perpetrators for that very reason.
3. Children are often in the care of/dependant upon the abuser.
4. People who blame their children for problems in their life (real problems or delusional) may engage in violence against them, including sexual violence and sexualised violence.
5. Continual sexual abuse is an effective means of brainwashing and control, and is used as such.
6. Street children and runaways have a fear of law enforcement or whatever it is they are fleeing that can be used by abusers (as in this recent case).
7. Children can be easier to traffick for a variety of practical reasons.
8. Children are deliberately targetted by perpetrators who believe they have less chance of catching STDs (in some countries there is even a myth that having sex with a child can cure STDs including AIDS and children are deliberately sought for this purpose).
9. In some countries the supply-and-demand is such that adults aren't worth nearly as much to pimps and slave-traders as children, hence it is more economical for the slavers to sell children to those who don't specifically want children as well as those who do.
10. The easiest way for pimps and slave-traders to get adult victims is to get them while they are still children.
11. Porn addicts are often drawn to a more extreme experience as they get jaded with what they are currently using. One direction this can lead in is towards child pornography.
12. Some pornography users prefer pornography to which those portrayed did not consent, or which those portrayed visibly suffered from. To such people child pornography has an obvious advantage because they know its really rape rather than acted.

Counter to these reasons why non-pædophiles might abuse children, it's worth adding that pædophilia doesn't remove one's capability for moral thinking. Someone who is abusing children is knowingly perpetrating an act of violence whether they are a pædophile or not.

Allen got sexual satisfaction from the abject misery imposed on the children involved. His crimes helped to psychologically validate those directly perpetrating violence on children by creating a community in which the perpetrators were not only told that it was okay to do what they did, but congratulated and rewarded for doing so.
His money went to an industry of sexual abuse of minors.

5 years should have been a mimimum.

DeVore

/me stands behind Amp slowly tapping a truncheon against his left hand.


DeV.

DeVore

Hellraiser, you are missing one point at least from what I said.

Just because I think he needs treatment rather then 'a good kicking' or prison time, doesnt mean I think he should be released back into society.
Treatment can be carried out in a controlled/restricted environment, 24/7

DeV.

Hellrazer

Originally posted by Jak


On a side note - Hellrazer you must live in a very frightened state with all the bombings, abductions, natural disasters etc. that go on every day in our neighbourhoods. I would be afraid to let my child out of my sight ... ever ... if I lived in your world.

JAK.

No its not the bombings and natural disasters that Im worried about

---

Its the sick people out there who will abuse and abduct children for their own pleasure that has me worried.
Im also worried that Ireland is becoming like Britain where the situation has become so bad that parents WILL not let ever let their children out of their sight.

And as Dave stated Tim Allen is now a convicted sex offender

---

Dont forget it.

He has officially been branded as a sick perverted person by the state and should be locked up.No one is being wrongly accused here.

And so what if hes repentent.It doesnt excuse what he did.

And I actually dont believe that there is a distinction between the person d/ling the pictures and the abuser.If there was no call for the material then there would be no point in posting it on the web.

The person downloading should be treated in the same manner as the person who is abusing the kids.There is no difference.

Richie.

*******EDIT*******

Amp

---

Im the person who Shinji made the personal attack against(Think it was animal something or other)---You should be telling him/her to calm down as the way I see it a lot of people here agree with most of what Im saying.
As I stated here earlier the object of my rant was and still is the lenient sentence that a convicted sex offender received in the Courts.And as for the treatment issue I believe that it should be carried out while the offender is in prison.
Richie

chernobyl

Originally posted by DeVore
Paedophilia is a condition, jail wont do anything for it but community work is a joke.

Im not so sure.
How do you "condition" what you are sexually attracted to? Is this not instinctive?

Paedophilia is not nice but i doubt you can cure it.

Talliesin

There is a tendency in this country to ignore the seriousness of the crimes of someone who is an accessory after the fact.

When you look at the bishops who were accesories after the fact to countless cases of abuse (although their motivation for aiding and abetting was to protect their instituions and financial standing, rather than them actually enjoying it) and they weren't even charged it's no wonder that Allen got of so lightly.

Wolff

What really annoys me aside from the fact of the light sentence is when the rumors started about this last year when the police raided the cookery school and he was named by the Mirror

Then all the locals in East Cork got on the Joe Duffy and vented their anger about how Tom Allen couldnt be the one

And then Darina Allen came on and suggested it could have been anyone using any of the many computers in the school and her hubby was innocent

Even though she was the one that let the police in and rang her husband and he confessed immediately and told her to guide the police to the computers

They have all gone very quiet now !

Some people are missing the point about the sentence that Tom Allen had one Senior Counsel, One other Top Cork Barrister, A top Dublin Solicitor and one of the best PR men in the country

And who says there is one law for the rich and one for the poor

Talliesin

How do you "condition" what you are sexually attracted to? Is this not instinctive?

This is not a matter of orientation (a theory that seems to have first been proposed by NaMBLA).

There is no more reason to believe it is innate than there is to believe that there were gasmask fetishists before gasmasks were invented.

Occidental

Ever think that these people have always been around. 50 years ago you could join one of our religious institutions and gain access to children, or there was always incest or the local kids. If your tendencies weren’t that strong or you didn’t want to dirty your hands, then you kept control of yourself and got on with life. Since the arrival of our beloved Interweb, you don’t have to keep control of yourself anymore and when you’re sitting in front of your PC in the comfort of your own home it’s very easy to convince yourself that no one will ever know.

What might be more interesting to watch is the circuit judge in Kerry who’s next up on the block. Call me cynical but I’ve a funny feeling that our judiciary may be using Mr Allen to test the water.

Meh

Originally posted by Hellrazer
Im also worried that Ireland is becoming like Britain where the situation has become so bad that parents WILL not let ever let their children out of their sight.

You need to stop reading the tabloids. The situation is not that bad in the UK. There have been a few high-profile cases like you describe, but a child remains far more likely to be abused or killed by a member of their own family than to be abducted by a stranger. If the government spent their money on more social workers and school psychologists rather than wasting it on billboards scaremongering about the big bad internet, they'd save more children.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1156063.stm

In Britain today, a child is no more likely to be abducted and killed than 30 years ago, when boys and girls tended to roam with more freedom.

amp

Originally posted by Hellrazer

Amp

---

Im the person who Shinji made the personal attack against(Think it was animal something or other)---You should be telling him/her to calm down as the way I see it a lot of people here agree with most of what Im saying.

Shinji's posts attacked your arguments and not you directly, if there was a problem with his posts I'd have said so.

Further complaints about my moderatorship in a PM or to the Admin board please. If you do not comply with this (as stated in the Charter) I will ban you.

Jak

I actually dont believe that there is a distinction between the person d/ling the pictures and the abuser.If there was no call for the material then there would be no point in posting it on the web.

However I think the abuser would still abuse, whereas the person who viewed material that was available might simply do nothing.

I agree both should be punished, and while I think these serial abusers who make this **** should be beaten to death, I cannot find the same level of anger or desire for 'justice' to wish the same leveled on Tim Allen.

JAK.

Hellrazer

Originally posted by Jak
However I think the abuser would still abuse, whereas the person who viewed material that was available might simply do nothing.
JAK.

And I believe that there will always be abusers but when the people view the material they may be inclined to carry out the abuse themselves---this is the reason that I stated that each is as bad as the other.The abuser is encouraging more abuse by distributing the material.
Richie


Amp Ive pm`d you but your mailbox is full.

daveg

Okay.. were all getting a bit hot headed here. But it's understandable. Were talking about child porn here. And for those of us who have kids we are bound to get upset.

At the end of the day Tim Allen should have gotten a jail sentence. As we all know there are going to be a lot of high profile cases coming up. I feel this case is setting a precedence. I agree what Tim Allen did is no where near as severe as child abduction/rape/murder. But the fact still remains sick cVnts like him are feeding the child porn rings. I saw a documentary on Ch4 a few months back on this and it was sickening. Children being abducted/raped/photographed ect. It should be a mandatory jail sentence for viewing child porn.

For those who do not have kids crimes (like this) perpetrated against kids is the worst kind of crime. Children are completely defenceless and innocent.

amp

Ah I missed the bit where Shinji likened Hellrazer to a "fucking animal". My apologies.

Shinji, you do that again and you're out. Personal attacks are not tolerated here.

Hellrazer, I simply asked you to calm down. That you were provoked is no excuse.

If you feel you are the subject of a personal attack in the future please report the post and we will deal with it swiftly.

Now, let's get back on topic.

Jak

when the people view the material they may be inclined to carry out the abuse themselves---this is the reason that I stated that each is as bad as the other.The abuser is encouraging more abuse by distributing the material.

This argument would only lead me to be more damning of the abusers/suppliers. Like Drugs, these problems will always exist, but I believe severe punishment for the abusers/suppliers and some form of mandatory jail sentence for the subscribers would eventually thin the problem out.

The solution is to primarily address our efforts towards the supply side of things. All the current investigations is mostly media show designed to frighten the market away from the sources in my view. A good thing - but that is what it looks to be about to me.

JAK.

pro_gnostic_8

Originally posted by seamus
It's not new. It's been around for millenia. In ancient greece, the young boy's body was idolised, and young boys were 'abused' as part of the norm.

As was slavery, cruelty and human sacrifice "part of the norm".
Many admirable aspects of Greek civilisation (democracy, science and theatre) have been integrated into our own society but "boy-love" sure isn't one of 'em. Societal morality has moved on and just because some perversion was acceptable in an earlier era does not lessen it's wrongfulness today.

pro_gnostic_8

Originally posted by k.oriordan
it would be virtually impossible for someone who found themselves developing those tendencies to seek treatment without the reactions shinji described.

Why? All a paedophile has to do is have his GP make an appointment with a treatment centre or a psychiatrist and nobody in the body-public will know about it! I'm sure you must be familiar with the concept of doctor/patient confidentiality. Tim Allen did this............ he was seeing his psychologist consultant over a long period. Reason he was caught was because he was buying rape photos of kids via credit card.

I, too, am tired of the definition of paedophilia as an illness. It is Not......Paedophilia is the pro-active pursuit of base self-gratification thru sexual contact with children. And it seems to me that it is symptomatic of a lot that is wrong with the way Irish society has developed. A joyrider that kills blames a deprived background; an alcoholic blames drinks manufacturers; a smoker blames tobacco companies for his lung cancer. Its time people took responsibility for their actions. And if a paedophile refuses to address his wrongdoing and is caught, then, he should face the full rigour of the law rather than escape with a suspended sentence.

Incidentally, Jak, there were almost a thousand images downloaded over 3 different 'puters............. he had deleted most of them (the most sickening ones)

Jak

Incidentally Prognostic the report I heard was that only approx 90 were downloaded the remainder had been viewed and were cached automatically and restored from there. There is a distinction.

JAK.

Hellrazer

Originally posted by pro_gnostic_8


I, too, am tired of the definition of paedophilia as an illness. It is Not......Paedophilia is the pro-active pursuit of base self-gratification thru sexual contact with children. And it seems to me that it is symptomatic of a lot that is wrong with the way Irish society has developed. A joyrider that kills blames a deprived background; an alcoholic blames drinks manufacturers; a smoker blames tobacco companies for his lung cancer. Its time people took responsibility for their actions. And if a paedophile refuses to address his wrongdoing and is caught, then, he should face the full rigour of the law rather than escape with a suspended sentence.

At long last someone who knows EXACTLY where Im coming from.Maybe if I had made the above statement a few posts ago this heated discussion would have calmed down a bit.
Exactly what I was trying to say is that Im sick of people who do something wrong blaming it on outside influences rather than stand up themselves and take responsibility for their own actions.No one these days seems to have the balls to do so.
Tim Allen spends a fortune hiring the best of the best legal team to get a reduced sentence.
If this was an ordinary Joe Soap then it would take up a few lines in a local paper not the front pages that Tim Allens case does and the accused would probably get a more severe sentence.
Its Tim Allens fault,he did something wrong and he should face the full rigor of the law--not try and get off with it.

Thats what this thread is about----The lenient sentence that he received and not whether what he did was as serious a crime as SOME may think.He HAS been tried and CONVICTED of a sex crime.END OF STORY!!!
Richie.

Clintons Cat

Incidentally Prognostic the report I heard was that only approx 90 were downloaded the remainder had been viewed and were cached automatically and restored from there. There is a distinction.

thats the confusing part,if the images are not permanently stored,but only veiwed once then destroyed is that really a mitigation?since the images could be readilly accessed during the period of subscription?

just a thought.

Talliesin

Incidentally Prognostic the report I heard was that only approx 90 were downloaded the remainder had been viewed and were cached automatically and restored from there. There is a distinction.

How did he view them without downloading them? ESP?

Jak

How did he view them without downloading them? ESP?

Do you read posts?

They were cached and there is apparently a legal distinction between material which pops up and is viewed/cached and things which are saved to a drive.

JAK.

Sand

Child porn is obviously wrong on a hell of a lot of levels, but paedophilia is a mental illness

A thought occured to me as i read this. Simply put, paedophiles get a sexual "turn on" from children. By calling this a mental illness you imply this can be cured? Do you believe all such sexual "preferences" can be cured? Following the logic here do you believe, a homosexual ( or a heterosexual for the easily offended ) for example can be "cured"? The logic would be the same wouldnt it? Only the preference youre trying to change would change?


DISCLAIMER

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> WARNING TO PC POLICE WANNABES!!!! In no shape or form am I equating homosexuality or heterosexuality with paedophilia, so relax.