ODTR web site

crawler · 10-10-2002 7:59am #1

Just noticed this in the recruitment section of the ODTR site.

Personally I have no comment but I'll leave you to draw your own conclsions.

"The ODTR attracts highly qualified and committed professionals who operate in a fast-moving team- based environment with a culture of delivery. If you like getting things done and want to push your intellectual, academic and professional talents to the limit and participate in leading-edge telecommunications and technologies, this is the centre of excellence for you. "

No disresepect to the people working there by the way...you cant be expected to reinvent the wheel without the back up and power to go with it.

Paddy20 · 10-10-2002 8:11am

Most intelligent people would be to ashamed to apply for workwith the ODTR. I wonder how much taxpayers money they paid out to have that advertisement written for them?

Now, I must just clean up the remainder of my breakfast off the floor.

Yours,

paddy20.
NB:_ Perhaps an ad asking for applications to join the- scratch your ass-, department of " Numbskulls United" would get a more suitable response?

Yours,

paddy20:eek:

crawler · 10-10-2002 8:39am

A ted harsh Paddy20 - they have good people in there , but they have bugger all influence.

Kevok · 10-10-2002 9:18am

Paddy, your statements are completely unfounded.

The staff at the ODTR are incredibly helpful and knowledgeable. I have first hand experience of this. I have had several e-mail conversations and phone conversations with the staff at the ODTR. I assure you, they know what they're doing.

As for Etain, well I don't really know her, all I see is someone who is reactive, and not proactive as she should be [OT]The legislation is in place Etain....PLEASE USE IT.[/OT]

MDR · 10-10-2002 9:32am

The legislation is in place Etain....PLEASE USE IT

what useful legislation would that be ?

Dustaz · 10-10-2002 9:33am

Hmm, Im not going to move paddy20s uninformed opinion for 2 reasons

1. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, no matter how stupid it is and as long as they dont go overboard with it (incessant spamming, its legal etc), then usually posting it is fine.

2. More importanly, i doubt paddy is the only one who feels that way. The odtr get a lot of bad press (look at what was said in the pk show thread). This way people with informed opinions can educate the readership by rebutting incorrect assumptions.

In short, Paddy your wrong. Kevok hit the nail on the head pretty much. THe ODTR employs a lot of very capable people who are hamstrung by the current climate.

Kevok · 10-10-2002 9:57am

what useful legislation would that be ?

I didn't say useful :P

However the Communications Regulation Bill 2002 does give the ODTR the ability to fine telcos for non-compliance.

Unfortunately, Eircom, as well as other telcos, have been complying, annoyingly..

Comm Reg Bill 2002

MDR · 10-10-2002 10:01am

*Puts it on top of his 'to read' pile ...*

spongebob · 10-10-2002 10:05am

the proof rests in the amount of word documents they send out by email....this being 2002 and all.

M

Tom Dunne · 10-10-2002 10:55am

At least if they send it out by e-mail, you actually get the document. Go to the ODTR main web page and then the Quarterly Market Update.

Try downloading the two documents. The web address is http://odtr-web/docs/odtr0276b.doc - it is obviously an internal web address. Ok, it doesn't take much to download the files (change the odtr-web to www.odtr.ie) but little oversights like this show a lack of attention to detail. The cynics among us might find some irony in this.

I have to say in my dealings with the ODTR, they were polite and professional, but then acted as little more than message carriers from me to Vodafone. I thought it might strike some fear into Vodafone, but they actually lied to the ODTR. I really don't think the ODTR have the power, and accordingly, the telecommunications companies simply don't fear them.

TD.

yellum · 10-10-2002 10:57am

I actually think theres some really clever intelligent and decent people in that office. Even some of the best companies can have an eejit of a boss and still do well because the rest of the staff are so good.

And they are going to have pdf versions of all documents ready soon enough I believe, due to popular demand.

They're very big on feedback to, so talk to them !

Paddy20 · 10-10-2002 11:13am

OK, OK?

I admit that even me paddy20, can be wrong!.

Sorry ODTR staff of quality and intelligence.

However I am still raging mad at the cost of the Internet access fiasco, and I am afraid the ODTR must carry some responsibility for the lack of FRIACO in the Irish Republic.

Lets all hope things will improve soon in this regard. Otherwise? -well, lets leave it at that for now.

Yours,

paddy20. Eating humble pie in a darkened room.:eek:

jd · 10-10-2002 11:20am

Originally posted by paddy20
OK, OK?

I admit that even me paddy20, can be wrong!.

...we understand, you have a marketing background .....:D

crawler · 10-10-2002 12:05pm

"marketing" , I thought it was pronounced "Morkiting, like yaw"

Sorry paddy20 - being a tekkie it's in inbuilt thing....

dahamsta · 10-10-2002 12:49pm

However the Communications Regulation Bill 2002 does give the ODTR the ability to fine telcos for non-compliance.

Hmmm, a question just came to mind: Can the ODTR use the legislation in the Comms Bill, or is it reserved for the Commission?

And another: Does anyone have an update on the creation of the Commission?

Unfortunately, Eircom, as well as other telcos, have been complying, annoyingly..

The sentence would be better finished with "eventually". Which brings up another question: Does the ODTR (or will the Commission) have the power to set fixed dates for implementations, or does it have to deal with the Irish Government speciality standards of vague "reasonable periods" and suchlike?

I'd also like to add my voice of support for the ODTR staff in general. I've only had dealings with two people in the ODTR, and although one wasn't particularly helpful, I believe that they were simply working within their remit. The other has been incredibly helpful. I believe strongly that the issue is not one of staffing, but poor legislation and Governmental support, and poor and/or misguided leadership.

adam

highlight · 10-10-2002 12:58pm

As far as I know, the Communications Act hasn't been actually enacted by the Minister, so although it's law is not in use. Could be wrong...

Kevok · 10-10-2002 1:41pm

No, I think you're right, I've just been reading through the Bill and apparently the "Day of Establishment" will be the day that the commisision is set up....i think. So I don't think that the ODTR can actually use this bill yet.

That being said, she has always had the ability to fine telcos, just hasn't been as well defined as in this bill.

Xian · 10-10-2002 8:30pm

Originally posted by Muck
the proof rests in the amount of word documents they send out by email....this being 2002 and all.

I used to think they should ditch Word and move with the rest of the tech-savvy to pdf (Richard Stallman can't be wrong). I'm not so sure now...

Take a look at odtr0238.doc. An innocuous enough document talking about how ntl fecked up quality of service data it was to provide the ODTR as part of the "Measuring Licenced Operator Performance TV Programme".

You can get the usual info in the File -> Properties dialog: The "author" of the document is "Darren Stones" whereas the "_AuthorEmailDisplayName" is "Mike Byrne", although the mismatch could be through a copy-paste and umpteen uses of the same document for new reports.

The fun is when you enable viewing of comments. Halfway through the line "The ODTR indicated that it would publish results on a regular basis" is the comment "This looks as if there was a bargain between us and the companies on this point?". The "comment" is most definitely Etain Doyles' as she is the only reviewer listed (or maybe it was someone using her machine?). Nothing controversial, you understand, other than giving the impression of a Regulator that is more concerned with looking over her shoulder worried about what others will think about this or that action rather than getting down to it and doing the work that is necessary. It's just there's no such fun to be had with pdf - all this information is stripped out. Who knows what nuggets will be unearthed in future Word documents? Something a bit more compromising perhaps?

Word Documents: You know it makes sense.

LoBo · 11-10-2002 8:36am

interesting point about the word doc comments - anyone found any other 'nuggets' ?

BigEejit · 11-10-2002 9:48pm

interesting point about the word doc comments - anyone found any other 'nuggets' ?

heh ... and suddenly the boards.ie website has no-one logged on because everyone is scratching through word documents ..

sceptre · 11-10-2002 9:52pm

Originally posted by BigEejit
heh ... and suddenly the boards.ie website has no-one logged on because everyone is scratching through word documents ..

More like

... and suddenly all Word documents are removed from the ODTR site when they read this on Monday.

DonegalMan · 11-10-2002 9:59pm

Originally posted by Xian
The fun is when you enable viewing of comments. [/B]

How do you do this? - the view comments option is greyed out on my Word toolbar.

Maybe they've protected it since you pointed it out. Incredible to believe that an organisation supposed to be at the leading edge of technology could do something so naive as this, doesn't exactly inspire you with confidence

Martin

DeVore · 11-10-2002 10:09pm

OMG!

Thats disgraceful.

I'm actually shocked. Clearly they are compromising as a result of not having the power to ENFORCE their views. They are REGULATORS not a barter merchants.

Jesus!

DeV.

sceptre · 11-10-2002 10:35pm

Originally posted by Xian
Take a look at odtr0238.doc.

I withdraw my comments about Monday morning. It would seem that the ODTR can move rather quickly when they want to.

My newly downloaded copy shows that a nice new cut and pasted version was created by Brian Elliman (hi Brian!) at 12:11 this afternoon. Spent four minutes editing it at that. Comments from (whoever it was but it probably was) Etain no longer there.

Now it's actions like this that give Adam's conspiracy theories extra circumstantial evidence*

*well, not really I suppose, except in my mind.

dahamsta · 12-10-2002 10:26am

Now it's actions like this that give Adam's conspiracy theories extra circumstantial evidence*

You can call me Mel.

Actually, I sent a spider into odtr.ie a while back, but I'd say it's so long ago now that the archive is gone -- and of course I wouldn't have any of the more recent docs. That said, I have a fair whack of ODTR docs collected around the shop. Must have a poke around.

Hi Brian!

adam

pork99 · 12-10-2002 10:53am

Maybe they've protected it since you pointed it out. Incredible to believe that an organisation supposed to be at the leading edge of technology could do something so naive as this, doesn't exactly inspire you with confidence

If they can afford Microsoft Office I'm sure they could also afford the full version of Adobe Acrobat, costs about 300 eur. This comes with a PDF writer utility that allows you to export any MS Office file to PDF format, it even puts a little "export to pdf" icon on the Word/Excel/Powerpoint toolbars. But I'm sure they are aware of that being "at the leading edge of technology"

SkepticOne · 12-10-2002 11:50am

Originally posted by pork99
If they can afford Microsoft Office I'm sure they could also afford the full version of Adobe Acrobat, costs about 300 eur.

Furthermore, they only need one copy for the whole office.

SkepticOne · 12-10-2002 12:28pm

Originally posted by dahamsta
Actually, I sent a spider into odtr.ie a while back,

This will have them looking under chairs and tables.

Dustaz · 12-10-2002 12:45pm

I apologise for this shockingly off topic and CS-like Reply in advance, but it has to be done......

Hi Brian!

yellum · 12-10-2002 1:23pm

We've got the copy with the comments though ! Can this be put up on the IrelandOffline website ? How embarassing !

Oh yeah "Hi Brian "

dahamsta · 12-10-2002 1:58pm

This will have them looking under chairs and tables.

No, I send that spider into Eircom.

adam

Xian · 12-10-2002 2:16pm

Originally posted by yellum
We've got the copy with the comments though !

*cough*

dahamsta · 12-10-2002 2:36pm

SkepticOne · 12-10-2002 3:24pm

Originally posted by dahamsta
<adam waves at christian from 195.218.116.8>

Do not contact this IP. I did and a load of evil spiders crawled out of the computer. I'm having mighty trouble rounding them all up.

Dun · 12-10-2002 4:29pm

FFS - these are the guys that are supposed to scare these companies into doing something? :rolleyes:

Oh, and Hi Brian!

sceptre · 14-10-2002 10:01pm

Doesn't strictly belong in this thread but it does mention the ODTR and I don't think it's worthy of a new thread.

Letter on p4 of the Sunday Times Business section (Sunday 13 October)

TELECOMS COMPETITION: The poor telecoms infrastructure in Ireland in terms of cost and lack of availability is still holding back widespread use of intemet technology among small and
medium-sized enterprises and is inhibiting optimum use of the technologies that are available.

This is a terrible indictment of the market after 10 years of economic boom and at a time when Ireland is seeking to position itself as a knowledge-based economy.

Nearly half of all businesses do not feel that there is adequate competition in the telecommunications market.

The telecoms regulator needs to adopt a tougher stance and the new minister must ensure that the regulator has the power to enforce. The government needs to be more aggressive in stimulating competition.

This is not a technology issue but a fundamental competitiveness issue for businesses and Ireland Inc.

Karen Hynes
eBusiness Services
Chambers of Commerce of Ireland

crawler · 15-10-2002 10:34pm

Head-In-Sand , it's the best policy....There is no need for a decent infrastructure - afterall there is no interest in the Internet in Ireland.......reports prove it.

Paaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

Paddy20 · 15-10-2002 11:16pm

Re: Sunday Times, letter:-

Very neat and concise.

Even letters in the Sunday Times (Irish Edition) I am assuming.
Are read by some extremely influential people.

Ms K Hynes is to be congratulated. However, it is a pity that she excluded "domestic" users, many of whom are operating small enterprises from home!.

Maybe, some Sunday Times journalists might pick up on the issue from her letter. They have a great investigative tradition especially through their "Insight Team".

Yours,

paddy20.

spongebob · 16-10-2002 9:28am

There is a story doing the rounds this morning about a
(well known) Telecoms company who reviewed a decision (in Word.Doc format of course) from the ODTR that they had lying around in an email from the ODTR and which went against them,.

When they noticed they way the document had been edited they got VERY VERY mad, especially after they saw some of the comments made internally by senior ODTR personnel. To make it worse, one of the key comments is big time WRONG and would have materially influenced the ODTR decision.

I expect the solicitors to order the ODTR to preserve all of their backup tapes this week from the sound of it. Not having a backup tape is not an option lads....you may take this as a warning to go get them ready rather than destroy them.

In the distance I hear Santas sleighbells ring....or is that the ching ching of the wigs in the High Court.

M