I have DSL in Cork

spongebob

ESAT are not going for Bitstream and ARE going for full unbundling in all cases.

Timod is keeping the beady eye on the inevitable digging.

Of course, ye can be sure that the nominated manholes will lead to ducting into the Eircom exchange that is 'mysteriously' full on some occasions. The Eircom escort into the building will mysteriously be the technician with the largest family.....from the amount of funerals he 'has' to go to.

Has anybody noticed how clean and neat the Esat digging is as compared to Eircom themselves or the rubbish that passes for making good when Chorus or NTL fill a hole. That may be because Eircom are constantly ringing the road engineers in the local authority.

Getting the fibre/dslam into the eircon exchange is a right palaver apparently.

M

MDR

Of course, ye can be sure that the nominated manholes will lead to ducting into the Eircom exchange that is 'mysteriously' full on some occasions. The Eircom escort into the building will mysteriously be the technician with the largest family.....from the amount of funerals he 'has' to go to.

sax0000

Originally posted by Muck
ESAT are not going for Bitstream and ARE going for full unbundling in all cases.

Timod is keeping the beady eye on the inevitable digging.

Of course, ye can be sure that the nominated manholes will lead to ducting into the Eircom exchange that is 'mysteriously' full on some occasions. The Eircom escort into the building will mysteriously be the technician with the largest family.....from the amount of funerals he 'has' to go to.

Has anybody noticed how clean and neat the Esat digging is as compared to Eircom themselves or the rubbish that passes for making good when Chorus or NTL fill a hole. That may be because Eircom are constantly ringing the road engineers in the local authority.

Getting the fibre/dslam into the eircon exchange is a right palaver apparently.

M

*IF* ESATBT are opting for full unbundling and don't have to pay EUR 55 per month for eircom bitstream, why are they so expensive and why is their price so similar to i-stream?

Free.fr avail of France Telecom's unbundled loop for DSL and their price is EUR 29.99 per month. Not 90. No traffic limit.

DannyD started the thread by saying "The entire city center is live after the quaker road exchange going live". Most of the city centre is not served by Quaker Rd but by Churchfield. Such a statement would only make sense if Quaker Rd was the regional POP for bitstream, which POP also fed Chruchfield.

Something doesn't compute in the entire scenario.

Sax0000

sax0000

Originally posted by Muck

Has anybody noticed how clean and neat the Esat digging is as compared to Eircom themselves or the rubbish that passes for making good when Chorus or NTL fill a hole. That may be because Eircom are constantly ringing the road engineers in the local authority.

Getting the fibre/dslam into the eircon exchange is a right palaver apparently.

M

If you walk down the South Mall you will find that ESAT have done more than their share of vandalism on the pavement.

In general, reinstatement of sidewalks and roadways in Cork by most parties - incl eircom, ESB, Cork City Council, Chorus etc. leaves much to be desired and is poorer than any other city or town I can think of in Ireland.

The local authorities in the Dublin area do a better job at enforcing pristine reinstatement of the public highway.

Sax0000

sax0000

Originally posted by highlight
YOu're wrong. According to Esat's own presentation and their website, they're doing full unbundling. And that's why they need to get the fibre into the exchange for their backhaul.

I've just had a quick look at www.esatbt.com

Can't find the presentation you refer to. If you click on residential then internet access I can't find anything on DSL. Just dial-up and related crap basically.

Does anyone know what their spec is? eg Is the IP address static? What is the contention ratio? Are we talking UBS or what type of connection? How many e-mail addresses in the package? Any webspace? Is the modem free? Where do I get it? Do I self install it? Does the offer include a dial-up ISP access number in case of technical problems with the DSL connection? What are the telephone support hours? How secure are their internet links?

If this company wants DSL customers, it certainly has no interest in residential DSL customers. Presumably they will all have to pay the same price.

sax0000

timod

Originally posted by sax0000
I've just had a quick look at www.esatbt.com

Can't find the presentation you refer to. If you click on residential then internet access I can't find anything on DSL. Just dial-up and related crap basically.

Look at the first post of this thread.

Anyway, from that presentation:

Customer Line choice

ULMP (Unbundled Local Metallic Path) is where the customer chooses to dedicate the phone line to Esat Business DSL therefore giving Esat full control over the line and the customer receives one bill

LS (Line Share) means maintaining voice services on the line whilst enjoying the benefits of Esat Business ADSL services

They also have a much more accurate list of enabled exchanges:

Limerick - April
Ballina - July
Churchfield (Cork) - August
Mervue (Galway) - August
Thurles - July
Dooradoyle (Limerick) - August
Quaker Road (Cork) - August
Ballinasloe - September
Tralee - August
Wexford - August
Kilkenny - September
Mallow - August

sax0000

Originally posted by timod
Look at the first post of this thread.

Anyway, from that presentation:


They also have a much more accurate list of enabled exchanges:

Limerick - April
Ballina - July
Churchfield (Cork) - August
Mervue (Galway) - August
Thurles - July
Dooradoyle (Limerick) - August
Quaker Road (Cork) - August
Ballinasloe - September
Tralee - August
Wexford - August
Kilkenny - September
Mallow - August

The point I was making is that while some ESAT BT propoganda talks of residential DSL their website makes no mention of it in its residential section. The EUR 90 price they cite is excluding VAT. Add VAT for a residential user and it is very expensive indeed. All the continental prices one reads have VAT included by law.

The definitions of unbundling and loop sharing you refer to in the presentation are just that. It does not say that ESAT BT are going for full unbundling in all their DSL POPs throughout Ireland.

sax0000

Dustaz

weh. CBA

The_Scary_Man

I have just ordered the EsatBT Netsmart product for myself at home, I am practically sitting on top of the Churchfield Exchange in Fairhill and am now wondering whether or not to cancel the Netsmart order and go with the DSL option.
Before I go mad I was wondering if anyone knew, as the Esat product is aimed at small businesses, whether or not the €90 price was inclusive of tax.
I reckon I could stretch to the €90 price but would rather wait for a more reasonably priced option if I had to go any higher.

sax0000

Originally posted by The_Scary_Man
I have just ordered the EsatBT Netsmart product for myself at home, I am practically sitting on top of the Churchfield Exchange in Fairhill and am now wondering whether or not to cancel the Netsmart order and go with the DSL option.
Before I go mad I was wondering if anyone knew, as the Esat product is aimed at small businesses, whether or not the €90 price was inclusive of tax.
I reckon I could stretch to the €90 price but would rather wait for a more reasonably priced option if I had to go any higher.

In France you can get DSL internet access for EUR 29.99 "inc VAT" from free.fr cos shared unbundling costs EUR 3,50 and there is compeition.

In Ireland you can get DSL internet access for EUR 90.00 plus VAT from esatbt.ie They have to pay EUR 8.22 for loop unbundling. Somehow something doesn't quite add up.

saxOOOO

DannyD

Originally posted by The_Scary_Man

Before I go mad I was wondering if anyone knew, as the Esat product is aimed at small businesses, whether or not the €90 price was inclusive of tax.
I reckon I could stretch to the €90 price but would rather wait for a more reasonably priced option if I had to go any higher.

I have the application form at home and will check tonight however I believe it IS inclusive of vat and remember there is no download cap.

The_Scary_Man

Cheers

DannyD

I have again read the application form and the brochure and there is not mention of vat.Have a look at the presentation yourself available from
www.dinneen.com/misc/EsatBusiness DSL.ppt

The_Scary_Man

Thanks DannyD,

I rang EsatBT and was talking to one of their guys. He said that it wasn't inclusive of tax and that I would be about €108 per month.

He also said that there is no minimum contract so I think I'll give it a go for a couple of months and if I think that I'm not getting my money's worth I'll just cancel it.

Now if I can just convince my daughter's mother to get it installed in the states I will be able to video conference with her

sax0000

Originally posted by The_Scary_Man
Thanks DannyD,

I rang EsatBT and was talking to one of their guys. He said that it wasn't inclusive of tax and that I would be about €108 per month.

QED BT are in breach of Irish law (which requires consumer prices to be VAT inclusive in their presentation) yet again.

sax0000

spongebob

its a business product (available to residential users) it is advertised to business at present.

wait till christmas(ish)

M

carbsy

Originally posted by sax0000
QED BT are in breach of Irish law (which requires consumer prices to be VAT inclusive in their presentation) yet again.

sax0000

No they're not , they clearly state its a business offer as they havent officially released their consumer product yet. (Allthough some people have jumped the gun , enquired about it and of course their not going to refuse business.)

De Rebel

Originally posted by Muck
wait till christmas(ish)

wot r we getting for christmas? and how much?

thegills

Not really DSL related but as part of the NTP funding, local authorities all around the country are building fibre MAN's in their cities. These fibre MAN's will connect into the eircon Xchanges and the ESAt POP's usually located in the train stations. Hopefully by next summer all of the major cities in Ireland will have these MAN's installed. The result will be cheap backhaul for Esat and any other OLO within DSL plans. In particular Limerick, Galway, Cork and Waterford should be up and running soon. Unfortunaley it doesn't solve the problem of below standard copper lines.

highlight

The Esat exchanges picked are all ones close to their own fibre for backhaul, so doubt Government programme will impact then

thegills

Highlight - You are mistaken.

The Esat exchanges picked

The Xchanges in question are eircom xchanges. Esat's xchanges are in general in train stations as their national fibre network runs along CIE's train lines. To provide DSL, ESAT have to connect their Xchanges to eircom Xchanges via fibre.

The Gov programme will provide cost price fibre between the Esat and eircom xchanges in most large towns in Ireland (exc. Dublin). At the moment Esat are digging up the streets to make this connection and paying for it out of their own pockets. With these MAN's they can rent a sub-duct and put in their own fibre, or rent dark-fibre and light it themselves. It also gives other OLO's a cheap route into both the Esat and eircom xchanges which gives them access to over-priced duopolizedmanaged bandwidth; Hopefully, ESB Telecoms natinal fibre network will offer an alternative.

For example, ESAT attempted to connect fibre into an eircom Xchange in Shannon to service the Shannon Free Zone with DSL, but due to difficulties with Aer Rianta they pulled the plug on Shannon.

spongebob

Soem of these local authority grants are for own ducting and own fibre...to remain in local authority ownership.

as the OLO's are lukewarm about hooking copper local loops and backhaul into these fibres they are the infamous 'stranded assets' with no connection to anything that you may hear about in some Eircon generated spin thats doing the media rounds.

M

MoSeS_.

My question to EsatBT
(Business Accounts Executive if you don't mind)

Looking at that presentation again I notice that in the pricing section it
> is described as Business Internet ADSL.
> Can I infer from that that VAT is not included in those prices
> and that for
>
> ADSL 512k/256k ULMP
> installation charge ~ EUR152.03
> Quarterly Rental charge ~ EUR326.70
> or £108.90 per month
>
> Giving an initial total of ~ EUR478.73
>
> Without VAT it was very expensive, with VAT added in it is
> pushing it a bit too far particularly when it is available in the
> rest of europe for one third of the price or less.
>
> Is there any prospect of a less expensive residential service in
> the near future ?
>

EsaBT's Response

Hi Tony,

The prices we quoted were exclusive of vat. As this product is only being
introduced to the irish market there are no new variations/ price reduced
DSl products planed at present.
The price quoted is the cheapest DSL pricing currently being offered in this
country.
With all new services they tend to reduce at some stage in the future once
the take up on the service reaches high levels but as to when and how much
it would not be possible to say at present.
As it is a flat fee it can prove cost effective over dial up as there are no
call charges to be paid while online and if line is used for DSl only there
is no line rental to be paid.

The access then gained is then at a speed much higher than one can expect to
recieve on an analogue or Isdn connection.

I am sure you will find as many of our existing customers have that for the
price being paid you will recieve a far superior service than previously
available.

Regards
Stephen

So there it is from the horses mouth, so to speak.

sax0000

>>>>The prices we quoted were exclusive of vat.

I won't say I told you. ESAT BT have no interest in residential DSL.

>>>>As this product is only being
introduced to the irish market there are no new variations/ price reduced
DSl products planed at present.

Because you and eircom are one as far as I can see. Do you not come from the same background (the British Post Office)? Did you never bother to bill each other for phone calls between the respective jurisdictions until a few years ago? Speaking personally I'd bill anyone who sent traffic over my network unless she was my wife.

Did you (BT) not both share the same office accommodation in St Stephen's Green West (with eircom - their HQ) until not so long ago? In this context I don't mean different floors and a separate lease or freehold. I mean the same holding.

Surely if you were competing with eircom there would be a big difference in terms, given eircom's extortionate pricing. Or you would be screaming to the media and the ODTR and the EU that eircom's monopoly is stopping you from providing the sort of service that a really indepentent sp would provide. Or what is your gameplan?

>>>The price quoted is the cheapest DSL pricing currently being offered in this
country.

No they are not. Eircom charge €89 per month. ESATBT charge €90. Big deal difference, I know. Which goes to confirm my point really. Why aren't you charging €35/45 as Deutsche Telekom charge in France on France Telecom's network? (needless to say inc VAT)

The entire system in Ireland is a joke. And the Irish consumer is being defrauded as a result. Particularly families who with a few children and parental use can run up internet bills that would pay for the average apartment rent and monthly supermarket bill in Spain or Portugal. Not to mention business startups, people engaging in serious research. Or any other potentially internet intensive activity.

Surely it is high time we had a properly constituted judicial internet access tribunal to hang you bastards out to dry?

With absolutely no disrespect to the folks at eircomtribunal.com who only lack the necessary judicial powers to engage in legal discovery and question people under oath.

sax0000