I have DSL in Cork

DannyD

I now have DSL in Cork city with no cap for 90 € Euro a month.The entire city center is live after the quaker road exchange going live.

I have a powerpoint presentation which EsatBt produced which detilas the prices and the exchanges going live ... you can download it here
http://www.dinneen.com/misc/Esat Business DSL.ppt

While I am over the moon at the no cap I still find 90€ Euro a month expensive consider it's paid quaterly up front.

koneko

To be honest, if I could get uncapped ADSL for 90 Euros a month, I'd be extremely extremely happy.

Might sound sad, to all of ye that expect ADSL at the same prices as the UK (come on, be realistic). ISDN/56k just isn't cutting it anymore.

MDR

to all of ye that expect ADSL at the same prices as the UK (come on, be realistic).

perhaps not quite as low as the UK, but the €40 a month would be about rigth

ando

danny, do you mind pinging 213.221.176.41 ?

I'm interested to see what kind of latency esat's Dsl is like?

That ip is barrysworld btw

spongebob

in your estimation that is. 2 outta 4 exchanges , 1 outta 6 exchanges?

Twould be a help when Dustaz amends the Broadband availability thread above.

I am hoping to hear of a successful outcome in Galway soon!

M

dahamsta

I can't remember how many exchanges are in Cork City, but someone will no doubt post a link to the reference later. Quaker Road is the first unbundled exchange in Cork. Churchfield, City Centre and Mahon will follow, I believe in that order. Churchfield is the biggest exchange in the country.

adam

spongebob

Well if me maths are right (ish)......

20% of the Cork City Population are in the currently unbundled exchange.

1 in 20 will pass the line test......

uuummmm ergo!

1% of Cork people may be able to get Broadband at the moment.

Congrats DannyD ya beat the odds. If you were a horse I backed I'd kiss ya.

M

dahamsta

1 in 20 will pass the line test......

How does the line test work with unbundled lines I wonder? I presume that Eircom has to provide the OLO with a full, unencumbered loop, but how do you know if a split line will support DSL without removing the splitter? How about ISDN customers? Curious.

adam

Turner

EsatBt exchanges...

http://www.esatbt.com/esatcom/homepage/products_solutions/access/dsl/dsl-listofexchanges.htm

Chief.

crawler

If a telco goes to the work of hooking up to the DSLAMs and then pays for the backhaul etc etc only to find that 1 in 20 lines pass on average they could never make a business case work....actually you could be really unlucky and find that some exchanges fail over 30:1

Anyone know the answer to this?

MDR

I believe that the '1 in 20' stat refers to the country as a whole, not DSL enabled areas.

Given the number of DSL enabled exhanges 1 line in 20 having DSL capablity wouldn't be too far off the mark ....

BigEejit

You are really lucky DannyD, if like me you were out in the wilds of Ballincollig (only a few short miles away from the center of Cork City), you would have no chance of DSL until those muppets in Eirmonopoly got their fingers out of their collective a$$es ...

Thinking of moving into town .... *grumble grumble*....:mad:

LoBo

actually the 1 in 20 figure was given to me during the week by an eircom adsl marketing person. He said that only about 1 in 20 lines [tested] pass the test, so there's no guarantee of passing even if you order a new line specifically for dsl. I was asking on behalf of my company as we are due to move offices.

BigEejit

Posted by LoBo:
actually the 1 in 20 figure was given to me during the week by an eircom adsl marketing person. He said that only about 1 in 20 lines [tested] pass the test, so there's no guarantee of passing even if you order a new line specifically for dsl. I was asking on behalf of my company as we are due to move offices.

As was posted elsewhere: I think that this figure (1/20th) is the "Absolutely spot on, noise and trouble free" ratio of phone lines, the "Very good, tiny amount of noise" ratio would work just as well but they will only start doing these when they have exhausted all the nice and easy ones.......:rolleyes: (and of course there will be a much higher proportion of these type of lines)

spongebob

Sorry head, credit yours. I remembered that LoBo had some pretty damning information from the horses mouth but couldn't find the post to link it.

BTW Eshats List does not mention your quaker road exchange at all and claims churchfield is enabled.

Mindya it claims a chunk of central dublin too but nobody has ever posted in here to say they have it in those areas.

Most peculiar....still a strong whiff of vapour about the whole Esat broadband rollout thing......apart from in Limerick that is.

I'd love to hear if the Eircom ADSL test is being used to FAIL Esat LLU unbundling requests.

M

Dustaz

Originally posted by dahamsta
Churchfield is the biggest exchange in the country.

You just had to get that in didnt you? Bloody PROC'ers

PiE

Er.. Esats site says that the North Main, Dublin exchange is enabled... why hasn't anyone noticed that before? Thats also a pretty big exchange judging by the number of people who were told they were on it when ringing up the DSL Trial number a few months ago.

timod

Originally posted by dahamsta
I can't remember how many exchanges are in Cork City, but someone will no doubt post a link to the reference later.

http://ocean.ucc.ie/02/tjod1/exchange.html

Just Updated

Illkillya

I called last week and they said I wasn't within reach of the exchange... I live on the Lower Road by the Cork Dry Gin bridge.. i would have thought that was within 2.5km from Quaker Road. Ah well, I hope I'm close enough to the City Centre exchange when thats done.

spongebob

Thats only 1.5 miles or so.

Jeez the Broadband map or Ireland is shrinking fast.

I thought ADSL as deployed her in the E-Tub would work up to c.2.5Miles (cable length and not as the crow flies)

also remember that IF you KNOW you are close and they say otherwise it may be because they are picking up wrong data from a GIS or Geographical Information System....a map and databse on PC thang. Most GPS based maps of Ireland are rubbish.

In order to persuade them to do the test you could tell them you are at a different address closer to the exchange....If you pass tell the truth.

M

yellum

You are on the other side of the river to Quaker road, I'd say you may be on a different exchange.

timod

Originally posted by Illkillya
I called last week and they said I wasn't within reach of the exchange... I live on the Lower Road by the Cork Dry Gin bridge...

You're almost definitely on the Wellington Road exchange. AFAIK, there are no current plans to upgrade it.

omni

...if you go by working lines, Crown Alley in central Dublin is the biggest with more than twice the w/ls Churchfield has...

sax0000

Originally posted by timod
You're almost definitely on the Wellington Road exchange. AFAIK, there are no current plans to upgrade it.

While it is a minor point it rings the same alarm bell as Pat Kenny the other week talking to Etain Doyle about "upgrading" the phone lines to provide DSL service. Total misinformation from two state agencies (RTE and ODTR) presumably aimed at conning as many people as possible into thinking that DSL is a big deal, dig up the streets, inconvenient, expensive operation for the country. Nothing could be further from the truth.

DSL does not involve an "upgrade" of an “exchange”. You could use DSL with a 1950s era crossbar exchange (if one still existed in the country).

The provision of DSL involves the installation of two DSL modems – one in the customer’s premises and one (rack mounted) at the exchange (called a DSLAM). The only difference between a DSL modem and a regular analog modem is that it requires to be connected along a copper path end to end – ie you can’t dial up an ISP in Tokyo or Tennessee using one of these. Like ordinary modems they cost about EUR 150 at each end per DSL signed up subscriber. Eircom probably pay for both in the service set-up fees they impose. In France the DSL modem is provided free unless you use France Telecom when it costs about EUR 75 using one of their special offer coupons.

The Eircom/ODTR anti-DSL “mafia” are using every opportunity to make DSL sound complicated, expensive, major upgrade of networks, and costing up to 8 billion to achieve! Not to mention all the crap about line testing and distance from the “exchange” as a vehicle to dump potential customers who would have no problem passing the line test with the same loop set-up in virtually any other country.

If a phone line is crappy fix it please. If only ten people on a 100,000 line switch want DSL (ultra unlikely, unless you are charging eircom prices) you only need to install kit for 10 DSL lines. Tiny cost. Why five years of delay? If it is more than 5kms from the “exchange” use a longer range more tolerant version of DSL – eg IDSL – which works with loops of 10kms and more – ie it has the same range as ISDN. If you have an ISDN line this version of DSL is guaranteed to work. Period. Ideal in areas with low population density. While it is much slower than ADSL, it is at least as fast as 2 channel ISDN and is always on and flat rate. No per minute clock ticking. France Telecom charge EUR 20 per month for slow DSL (ie 128/64).

Eircom and the ODTR are totally underestimating the demands and sophistication of the Irish market. As they (under various brand names) have been doing since the State was founded.

While you might accuse me of nit picking with words, we need to be careful not to turn ourselves into mouthpieces for those who like to make DSL into a big deal upgrade all over the place so that they can continue to charge as many suckers as possible second by second for their internet activity.

Sax0000

timod

yeah - when I meant upgrade, I didn't mean the lines.

However consider the following:

* Esat are the only company rolling out DSL in Cork.
* They need to get their bandwidth to the exchange
* They need to install their cabinets and DSLAMS in the exchange

So there is a bit more involved than just putting in a DSLAM.

Esat were digging up the road leading into the Quaker Road exchange for about a week in July. This was to get their fibre into the exchange. (AFAIK) I assume that Esat would need to do similar to all exchanges that they intend to use.

It's bound to be much easier for Eircom.

spongebob

may I add the following

a dslam is generally designed for 25 connections, you cna then add more dslams in the rack

typically it is connected at the back to fibre..backaul to the backbone

a dslam can support a mix of flavours of DSL , in Ireland we have VDSL on a small scale and ADSL on a larger scale installations wise

a dslam can support a mix of DSL flavours (xDSL is the phrase) for different service grades.

The menu could include ADSl RADSL IDSL VDSL and SDSL all running from the one DSLAM

That would give a service up to about 5 miles for all.

Our lily livered ODTR knows this but will not regulate for it.

The space required is indeed in fractions of a 19in wide rack (which can be wall mounted)

a full bog standard rack can do about 100-150 xDsl connections and takes up feck all space even in a 'full' exchange, which is where you came in I believe.

M

timod

Lads, I know a rack is tiny, and installing a DSLAM is simple...

But my point is, for OLO's to use Eircoms exchanges, there's a lot more than that. (and I'm certainly not an apologist for Esat)

Have a look at the Access Reference Offer http://www.eircom.ie/bveircom/pdf/arover2.pdf (Dated 7th October 2002!!)

covers everything from the cost for an OLO engineer to visit the exchange (where they are escorted by an eircom employee), to where to put any rubbish. Over 200 pages.

Anyway, to get back to my point... this is where the expense comes into it for Esat:

2.1.1.1. To ensure that an Access Seeker’s equipment, located in eircom’s Serviced Exchange Footprint, can be connected to the Access Seeker’s network, the following is proposed:

2.1.1.1.1. eircom will nominate and agree a manhole with the Access Seeker close to the eircom exchange and where possible eircom will nominate and agree two manholes on either side of the exchange to facilitate Access Seeker access. The agreed manholes will where possible be common to those nominated for the provision of In-Span Interconnect Service.

2.1.1.1.2. The Access Seeker will construct or agree to utilise an existing Access Seeker constructed manhole within a reasonable distance of the eircom agreed manhole. The Access Seeker will build a duct between the two manholes and eircom will provide a point of entry for the Access Seeker’s ducts to the eircom manhole. eircom will run the Access Seeker’s fibre optic cable from the eircom manhole to the Access Seeker’s ODF in the eircom exchange.

2.1.1.1.3. The Access Seeker will then provide and install a fibre optic cable from the Access Seeker constructed manhole, utilising their own ducts, to their own network..

That means digging roads for Esat. At least that's my reading of it.

Illkillya

Originally posted by timod
You're almost definitely on the Wellington Road exchange. AFAIK, there are no current plans to upgrade it.

I am on the Wellington Road exchange, I assumed that DSL being available in one exchange could make it available to parts of the adjacent exchange, since the only restriction they mentioned is that you have to be within 2.5km. They could have just seen from my phone number that I wasn't in the right exchange.

sax0000

Originally posted by timod


* They need to get their bandwidth to the exchange

The need to get their bandwidth to the eircom regional unbundled bitstream POP. They don't have to run it to every RSU in the city. There are only 2 MSUs (core exchange switching entities) in Cork City (Churchfield and Quaker). Churchfield has two exchanges serving local traffic (Churchfield 1 and Churchfield 2) - as well Churchfield transit switching entities. It is up to eircom to plumb the ISPs feed across their existing fibre to the various RSUs. Someone was mentioning Wellington Rd RSU - that is fed by Churchfield 1 and 2.

* They need to install their cabinets and DSLAMS in the exchange

The DSLAM goes in the RSU. It is put there by eircom, again under the wholesale bitstream unbundling arrangement.
You get your DSL service from eircom owned DSLAMs whichever provider you sign up for.

Esat were digging up the road leading into the Quaker Road exchange for about a week in July. This was to get their fibre into the exchange. (AFAIK) I assume that Esat would need to do similar to all exchanges that they intend to use.

Quaker must then be a bandwidth acceptance POP. The Quaker switch drives a large number of RSUs (though nowhere as many as Churchfield). Quaker numbering includes 021- 429, 431 and most other 43n, most 45n and 47n (ie Kinsale area). It also drives 023 37. Churchfield serves all the rest of the city and much of the county including 026 and some 023 and 025. The latter 2 probably are ISDN ranges in those areas. Another of eircom's dirty tricks was not to make DSL available on ISDN, forcing customers to downgrade to POTS. Most DSL candidates will probably already be using ISDN. Deutsche Telekom require customers to have ISDN before they get DSL. A far better marketing path and sounder from an engineering point of view.

sax0000

sax0000

Originally posted by timod
Lads, I know a rack is tiny, and installing a DSLAM is simple...

But my point is, for OLO's to use Eircoms exchanges, there's a lot more than that. (and I'm certainly not an apologist for Esat)

Have a look at the Access Reference Offer http://www.eircom.ie/bveircom/pdf/arover2.pdf (Dated 7th October 2002!!)

covers everything from the cost for an OLO engineer to visit the exchange (where they are escorted by an eircom employee), to where to put any rubbish. Over 200 pages.

Anyway, to get back to my point... this is where the expense comes into it for Esat:



That means digging roads for Esat. At least that's my reading of it.

The document you are referring to above appears to be related to full unbundling* - ie where the ISP installs their own DSLAM in the RSU. As far as I am aware, nobody is opting for full unbundling. BT are using wholesale bitstream access for which they have to pay EUR 55 per month to eircom per subscriber plus other setup fees. Eircom have made access terms terms of full unbundling too expensive.

*The eircom document doesn't have a proper title and I don't have time to read it right now!

Sax0000

highlight

YOu're wrong. According to Esat's own presentation and their website, they're doing full unbundling. And that's why they need to get the fibre into the exchange for their backhaul.