Surf NoLimits Strikes Again

dahamsta

This morning I received a letter from "Legal & Debt Management Services" trying to collect on the €24.38 I don't owe Esat BT. Anyone else get it?

The letter was lovely, it was actually signed, in pretty script: "Legal & Debt Management Services". In script!

adam

gandalf

Ah ESAT what a pack of muppets. We deal with them here for our leased line. They made a error on invoices back in Jan this year and when we told them they'd have to issue a credit note before we would pay them it took them until August and multiple calls from us to sort it out.

I mean how much did it cost them to produce that invoice/letter to you Adam, probably more than they are looking for.

Gandalf.

LoBo

I suggest printing out 'the letter' and sending it back to them.

While searching through boards.ie for the scanned letter I remember someone posting back then I came across a few interesting threads:

UTV working with ODTR to start new flat rate (12/5/01)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4840
obviously the ODTR were quite efficient about it...

ODTR to investigate Esat over SNL Debacle(02/05/01)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4785
not sure anything came of that...

IOL NoLimits Restrictions(25/01/01) -- BEFORE infamous letter

Please note that from 01/03/01 we are introducing a 3 hour limit on each individual call made under the IOL NoLimits service to ensure greater efficiency of service. You may reconnect if required. Under no circumstances does this affect the unlimited, unmetered aspect of theservice.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24938
Note the last sentence in that quote...
:mad:

Colm

Terminator

All those telcos are the same. I made the mistake of signing up to snl with a credit card. They continued to bill me months after I left no matter how many times I rang. Eventually they refunded me but I really had to lose my cool on the phone to achieve this.

These days I only this pay for this type of service by standing order - that way you have the power to cancel payments at any time

Dotsie~tmp

About two months ago i recieved a letter from a company like that (not sure if its "Legal & Debt Management Services") saying i owe about €140. I do but when they cut me off no limits i told them id pay it if i was reconnected. They wouldnt, i didnt. I threw the letter out and haventheard a thing since.

---

Dostie.

dahamsta

http://beecher.net/img/misc/esat-bt-collection/

I don't have time for a rant now, but you'd better believe there's one on the way...

adam

LoBo

cool. have Esat SNL wrongly put your name on a "bad credit" list?

*cough*sue*cough*

flamegrill

Adam i had that same trouble a long time ago. I havent heard a word from them since about april thou. I was talking to some woman in their accounts dept. I had been charged every month from june 2001 up till feb 2002 for snl and i got kicked off like the rest. I wonder if a similar letter is in my gaff now... i move dout ages ago hehe

stormkeeper

What is making Esat charge all these people? I mean, this is an insult to injury, first they f*ck you out of the service, then they expect you to pay for the proverbial asskicking! That just feels so wrong...

As I have mentioned before, I was charged by Esat twice... £13 (in my name) for the 2 weeks I was on, then another £17 (in my mums name - they had my mums account info from another transaction)... I was forced to pay them, even though I didn't want to, because my mum made me... At this time, I feel that I can't forgive Esat for what they done, especially considering what they said when my mum was ordering a reprint of the bill.

scojones

ken.. you can't forgive esat for what they have done? haha sorry but it was 30 quid. Get over it.

Terminator

Doesn't matter how small the amount is. If somebody screws you you're not gonna forget that EVER.

phoenix2181

They tried the same stunt on myself last year, they kicked me off in May & then I got a letter in Sept for something like 64 pounds,
So i rang them off & told them to Fu*k off if they think they are getting that money, I told the guy that they were not providing a service so I was not paying....the guy got real stropy with me, so i told him to try & take me to court as they wouldn't have a leg to stand on.....as you can guess..I never heard anything since

stormkeeper

The point was that they cut me off, claiming that my mum 'emailed' them to change numbers, wnen in actual fact she phoned! However, in the end, she decided that I could keep her number (we have 2 phone-lines), and she got mine, after we were told that I couldn't sign up again (I signed up just in time). It took me a few months to finally found out what happened with my account, but by then there was no chance of getting back.

About a few months ago, when I was getting a reprint, as I mentioned before, we asked about my SNL account, only to be told that "I wasn't taking advantage of the service" :mad:

So, it's not the fact that it's the £17... It's the fact that all this has happened... If I had even gotten at least a months usage from the service, I'd have paid the £17, no problems, but it's the fact that I got charged for 1 and half months, when I only used it for about 2 weeks (I probably had it for 3 weeks, but I had problems getting it up and running in the first week) and that they charged my mums account, when the SNL account was in my name.

mechanima

Ho-k

Maybe I got oner of the best EVER from Esat SNL...

Signed up in January 2000...got a letter saying bank account was not suitable for DD...so gave 'em ANOTHER account...

In August 2000 noticed they were cheerfully DD'ing both...

Called 'em, was told they could not find where one of the dd's was coming INTO their system so it would take time to cut it out (triggers an old memory of IOL mailing me in 1997 to 'fess up to dd'ing my sub twice for 2 months).

October 2000, decided they had had ENOUGH time...got dd cancelled for one month (which is all AIB would do) as I use peak rate too this cash was starting to mount up.

Was ASSURED it was now sorted...(ha ha!!) In JANUARY 2001 noticed it was NO SUCH THING and got sick of waiting for the refund...(some £300, MOST UNFUNNY, on a limited income).

I had to send Uncle PHYSICALLY TO BUILDING of Esat (I was too unwell to go) to DEMAND that they cease all dd's)...THEN they wanted to give me credit, not a refund...

THAT would have been interesting in terms of "the letter" huh?

But it was not to be...I forget how, but it was not politely, I persuaded them to send cheque...

To be told it takes a month to write cheque...I pointed out that it takes ME 60 seconds max, and read them the riot act...

I FINALLY got the refund cheque in Feb 2001.

My conclusion, in May 2001, was that "Nolimits" actually referred to the amount of payment they were prepared to extract from your bank.

Gaye

dahamsta

ken.. you can't forgive esat for what they have done? haha sorry but it was 30 quid. Get over it.

I can't speak for Kennett, but I can speak for myself: I don't owe Esat BT any money, so it's not just 30 quid, it's fraud. It's also a matter of principle: Unlike others here, I did respond to the "reminders" from Esat, and they didn't even have the courtesy to reply to me. Not even an acknowledgement of my letter.

Let this be a lesson to the people defending Esat BT here on the boards: The company has not changed. Even though they have accepted themselves that they handled the disconnections in the most idiotic fashion possible they're still thick enough to try and bill people for piddling little amounts. Is it any wonder people harp on about it, is it any wonder it won't go away? How stupid are these people?

Here's a few more: How stable is a company that's billing people for year-old €25 debts? Who in their right mind wants to deal with a company that's so starved of cash they have to resort to this; who in their right mind wants to deal with a company that has so little respect for their customers; and think about it: Who in their right mind wants to deal with a company that's so stupid it doesn't realise that the people they're chasing here are the people who want flat-rate packages they sell.

To think I said the other day I thought that Esat had the capacity to change. I must've been on something that day. Guess what my next domain registration's going to be?

adam

dahamsta

In August 2000 noticed they were cheerfully DD'ing both...

This is actually the kind of thing that happened with me, albeit with one account. I can't remember the exact details at this stage, but I seem to remember that I cancelled my SNL account, and I was so livid with Esat at the time I cancelled my telephony service too. However Esat continued to DD my account, even after I asked them a second time not to. So I cancelled the DD. And Esat kept billing me. I wrote a letter explaining the situation, and that was the last I heard about it until I got an invoice a couple months ago, which cracked me up. Now I get this letter.

Gods, I thought Kickham was a muppet, but Bill Murphy is outpacing him by the minute, he's rapidly moving into Beaker territory.

adam

rymus

Originally posted by dahamsta
This morning I received a letter from "Legal & Debt Management Services" trying to collect on the €24.38 I don't owe Esat BT. Anyone else get it?

Yes I got one too... Meant to ring esat and explain to them (in the nicest way possible of course) that I dont owe them a cent. Somehow I dont think they'll swallow that one. Well, at least now I know I'm not the only one thats going to be 'forced to pay legal charges'

gurramok

I still owe them €20 since june 2001, haven't heard a word from them since about it !!
I stopped the dd immediately when i got the letter of death.

Maybe they just pick out people for the sake of it

Dangger

Did anyone of you call Legal & Debt Management Services as it advised in the letter?

I did and they were most courteous as I explained the situation surrounding the No Limits letter and subsequent fiasco. I mentioned that I was aware that many people had received their letter today and that I (and I felt many others) would be doing nothing about it.

They told me that they would advise their client (EsatBT) and that they would consider the matter will end there as the amount they are requesting is so small.

rymus

Ahh Dangger.. so logical Must call them tomorrow to straighten out the second esat fiasco.

What exactly did u say to them btw?

Dangger

I called them quoted my name, they pulled up my details straight away and I explained that I had terminiated my account with Esat on receiving their letter. They also asked me for a description of the "No Limits fiasco".

I confirmed that I had received subsequent letters requesting money but that as far as I was concerned I had kept within their stated terms and conditions. I explained that I would be doing nothing and that I would await further instructions from their solicitors. They explained that they would inform their client and that it would most likely end here as the amount is so small.

dahamsta

I'm not really happy paying out more money in another fruitless effort to deal with Esat's ignorance and incompetence. Sure, it's only a telephone call, but before that it was only a letter, and before that it was only a fax. It all adds up.

I think I'll just return the letter, with a request that they kindly shove it up Esat BT's butt, while singing "adam thinks you suck, adam thinks you suck". No harm in asking, eh? 72 point Impact. They can pay the postage and invoice it to Esat BT.

I swear, it's just playing on people's fears, it's incorrigible behaviour. And it's the final nail in Esat's coffin as far as I'm concerned. I'll never even consider them for business again, and I'll happily encourage everyone I know to dump them.

Bring me the head of Bill Murphy.

adam

Griff667

This is just priceless
UTV are having a little trouble setting up their service. People are beginning to consider Esat as a viable option despite considerable protest from those stung before. Then they pull a stunt like this, alienating a large chunk of their potential "hard-core" userbase even further. With every day that passes I'm getting happier I joined UTV instead.

sceptre

Originally posted by sjones
ken.. you can't forgive esat for what they have done? haha sorry but it was 30 quid. Get over it.

The point though, for most people, is that Esat billed for NoLimits in advance. Which means that for those who were cut off, they paid for the last month's service before they were cut off, not after. Which means that anyone who's getting billed for the last month is either very fast at running to their bank to cancel a direct debit or (and here's the probability) they don't owe Esat the money for the last month.

Which, as I've mentioned in another post, means that Esat are chancing their arm to bill people for money they aren't owed.

Which again must do wonders for their PR.

They're treating this amount in the same way that many landlords do with the first month's rent - hoping that people will just forget they've paid it.

Which (as Adam has mentioned elsewhere) puts them in the same position as the lowest scummy landlord that tries to screw people out of a few quid just because they think they can (as opposed to the nice landlords that treat their tenants/customers fairly, only claiming what they are actually owed).

Any time I've phoned Esat with a problem with my bill (which hasn't been lately), I've had to phone back after a few days because "there's a problem with our billing at the moment"

Methinks there's a "problem with (their) billing department at the moment". And with their legal department, PR department and reality department.

</rant over>

VeeEmmy

Originally posted by sceptre


Any time I've phoned Esat with a problem with my bill (which hasn't been lately), I've had to phone back after a few days because "there's a problem with our billing at the moment"

Methinks there's a "problem with (their) billing department at the moment". And with their legal department, PR department and reality department.

</rant over>

This is the same response I got when I telephoned Esat in response to the incorrect bills I was receiving after I was banished from "no limits." They billed me for FIVE months after.

It took two registered letters to get a response and an adjustment to my bill. (I enclosed copies of The Letter, and copies of subsequent bills). They did respond immediately to the registered letters.

Don't be lulled into thinking you won't hear from them because it's been "months" and you've heard nothing. They are desperate for money and are hounding people who don't owe money for services they haven't received! Unreal.

No matter what sort of a great deal they come out with, I will never go back to them.

They threw me away, and away I shall stay!

DonegalMan

Originally posted by dahamsta
This morning I received a letter from "Legal & Debt Management Services" trying to collect ...

I assume that this has nothing to do with the way you have consistently criticised Esat on this forum

More seriously, I assume that you are conscious of the need to get this off their books one way or another so that they don't use it to screw up your credit rating elsewhere

Martin

NeoSlicerZ

I certainly hope that no ISP will that kind of thing again , since afaik they will find a substantial amount of people switching over to their rivals... (did i say rivals in irish telecommuncations?!?!?)

rymus

Originally posted by dahamsta
And it's the final nail in Esat's coffin as far as I'm concerned. I'll never even consider them for business again, and I'll happily encourage everyone I know to dump them.

My sentiments exactly.

Raskolnikov

You think you had it bad with SNL? Listen to this . . . .

We (our household) first signed up just a month after it's launch, my parents who i am living with thought decided they didn't want to pay for it after two months so the onus fell on me to pay. I arranged it with Esat so they could transfer the direct debit to my account from my parents. It was all going well until my parents received a bank statement saying that they were stilling being billed for No Limits despite them cancelling it, this was 8 months later. I then got a bank statment to see if they were taking money out of my account too, lo and behold they were billing the TWO ACCOUNTS! In effect we were paying for SNL TWICE!

I rang up and was told to gather all my bank statments and send them off to them (at my expense). Eventually we managed to get our money back after much effort.

It appeared everything was fixed until they pulled the SAME STUNT AGAIN a month later, that month after double billing me i was booted off the service. I still haven't gotten my £20 back after they double billed me again, they also have the audacity to bill me for a month that i never used! So instead of them oweing me £20 i am supposed to owe them £20!

At least this $hit doesn't happen with Eircom, however crap there service may be

stormkeeper

Originally posted by Raskolnikov
At least this $hit doesn't happen with Eircom, however crap there service may be

My sentiments exactly... They may charge you a bomb for the service, but at least they take out the 'right' amount. I'm really beginning to believe that Eircom is the lesser of two evils here. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not happy with the way eircom are screwing this country over and the average Joe Soap, but they do have a degree of honesty to them in that their billing department is better sorted out than Esats.

That's just my opinion though. Feel free to give your own if you don't agree with me.

Falkorre

I too got a letter, this time from "Guardian Commercial Credit Services Ltd." a good while back, telling me I owed their client "Esat Fusion" £77.77 ,.............

I phoned them and spoke to a rather nice person whom i informed that i was refusing to pay until they re-instated the service they had withdrawn and if they wanted they could take me to court, i have nothing to lose, bad credit rating allready from when I was 18, an nothing of real value owned, .........

She said she would inform her client and get back to me, she never did, an that was many many moons ago.

Barry

dahamsta

Hiya Martin,

I assume that this has nothing to do with the way you have consistently criticised Esat on this forum

Of course it does.

More seriously, I assume that you are conscious of the need to get this off their books one way or another

Politically and financially, yes.

so that they don't use it to screw up your credit rating elsewhere

If they do, I'll kill them. Note the deficiency of smilies.

adam

dahamsta

"Kill" is a bit strong, as has been pointed out to me. "Sue" is of course what I meant. Boy, that'd be fun.

adam

Occidental

Originally posted by Raskolnikov
At least this $hit doesn't happen with Eircom, however crap there service may be

Oh yes it does.

I have an invoice in front of me for equipment I dont have, and have never even discussed with Eircom, let alone ordered. They are also still billing me for a sub service which was cancelled last year. When I eventually manged to get someone to talk to me, their respone was that it must have been an error in the system. Many months later they are still sending me reminders for the same invoices and at this stage I've given up trying to talk sense into them.

They are as well represented in the league of chancers as ESAT ever will be

drjolt

Got one of those too. Esat's final invoice to me contained charges for services not recieved, claims of money already owing despite Esat having been instructed to automatically debit my CC, and basic errors of arithmetic (money paid increasing the sum owed). I sent a letter in July 2001 saying I'd settle the account once I recieved a corrected invoice, but they never sent me one. Now this. I'd love to see some journalist pick up this story.

drjolt

Just got off the phone with L&DMS, and recounted my tale to them. According to the person I spoke to, they'll pass on that info to Esat BT, and have put the account on hold - that is, it won't go any further - until either L&DMS or Esat BT get back to me. I urge anyone who has a dispute with them to get in touch.

VeeEmmy

I would strongly advise you, and anyone disputing bills, etc. to
1) PUT IT IN WRITING and
2)send to the offending party (ie, Esat, Eircon) via REGISTERED POST .

That gets their immediate attention and lets them know you mean business, because there's a RECORD of your dispute, not just a minimal notation (of dubious accuracy, if at all!) by personnel.

If at all possible, include copies of bills, bank statements and any other relevant documentation.

drjolt

Yes, excellent point. I've whipped up a quick summary of the telephone discussion which I shall dispatch to them tomorrow.

Raskolnikov

Originally posted by Occidental


Oh yes it does.

I have an invoice in front of me for equipment I dont have, and have never even discussed with Eircom, let alone ordered. They are also still billing me for a sub service which was cancelled last year. When I eventually manged to get someone to talk to me, their respone was that it must have been an error in the system. Many months later they are still sending me reminders for the same invoices and at this stage I've given up trying to talk sense into them.

They are as well represented in the league of chancers as ESAT ever will be

I have heard of far more people complaining about Esat than Eircom in terms of being billed for stuff they never got.

It doesn't matter anymore, i have UTV and so far the service has been super, i had a query about billing them, rang up and got it answered right away

sceptre

Esat do have something of a history in sending people phones they don't order (happened to me and a few others I know) but at least they eventually recognise their mistake (took me three months to get money back - as a fee for my time I kept the Esat phone). It's also a practice Eircom subscribe to, though at least most people are finally handing in their phones.

(as an aside: where will people get rid of their rented phones now Eircom have sold their shops? I know I just got them to stop billing me for rental on the phone I didn't want (with no hassle - having persuaded the nice lady on 1901 to stop billing me I just kept the Eircom phone out of spite). Will they just stop billing you and tell you to keep the damn thing?)



Ironically I use neither phone. I use a nice cheap BT cordless I got in Argos for about thirty quid

dahamsta

XX XXXXXXXXXX XXXX
XXXXXXXXXXX
Cork

25th September 2002

Legal & Debt Management Services
8 Claremont Road
Sandymount
Dublin 4

Your Ref: [see attached]

Sir,

With reference to your attached letter, as has been explained to you no
doubt dozens of times now by both ordinary and committee members of
IrelandOffline, the amount outstanding relates to charges that were
invoiced to me subsequent to cancellation of my account with Esat BT. They
have also conveniently forgotten the deposit I had to pay them to commence
service.

And of course they have forgotten the letter I sent them, cancelling my
account; and the second letter I had to send when they lost the first one;
and my complaint about their surprise "reminder", nearly a year after my
cancellation. They have never responded to any of my correspondence, either
to apologise or to question my assertions. Not a peep. And now this.

Words cannot express my disgust with your threats of legal action for such
an amount; even if they are effectively threats by proxy for Esat BT. You
are transparently playing on the ignorance of people with regard to their
rights, which I find offensive. If you should be threatening anyone with
legal action, it should be Esat BT for referring fairytale debts to you.

To be clear, I have absolutely no intention of paying this invented debt. I
am also seriously concerned that my credit rating will be affected, in
which case I will need to refer the matter to my solicitor -- I would
appreciate a written assurance from your company that it will not by return
of post please.

By rights, you should also be including a cheque from Esat BT for the
deposit they owe me, plus the cost of this letter, and the time I was
forced to take to compose it. I won't be holding my breath for those, but I
look forward to your reply on the former matter.

Yours sincerely,
Adam Beecher

rymus

Bravo Adam, very very good letter!

I cant wait to see the reply

stormkeeper

Originally posted by rymus
Bravo Adam, very very good letter!

I agree ^_^

I cant wait to see the reply

Neither can I... I hope it teaches Esat a lesson. Good luck mate.

Paddy20

Kennett,

Re:- Eircom Accounts Honesty,

I could not disagree with you more. They sent me a bill for 888 internet calls at a cost of over Euros 300.00 on top of my normal voice call account.

Had I not paid them they would have disconnected me forthwith despite the fact that Eircom.net were investigating my complaint about their error in submitting to accounts a totally incorrect calculation which I had to pay.

As with a lot of large organisations, the right hand never knows nor will it acknowledge what the left hand is doing. I will not elaborate further except to state that if you are impressed by Eircom.ie accounts department which is part of eircom Ltd.

Then we are living on different planets.

Best wishes,

Yours,

Paddy20 :eek:

billy the squid

(as an aside: where will people get rid of their rented phones now Eircom have sold their shops? I know I just got them to stop billing me for rental on the phone I didn't want (with no hassle - having persuaded the nice lady on 1901 to stop billing me I just kept the Eircom phone out of spite). Will they just stop billing you and tell you to keep the damn thing?)

I[ll give you a clue where my eircom fone went, its black has wheels and nice men empty it every thursday.

they stopped billing me for it when I moved I got rid of it because it was older than I was

was just wondering though are the odtr doing anything about esats lousy accounting

stormkeeper

Originally posted by paddy20
Kennett,

Re:- Eircom Accounts Honesty,

I could not disagree with you more. They sent me a bill for 888 internet calls at a cost of over Euros 300.00 on top of my normal voice call account.

Had I not paid them they would have disconnected me forthwith despite the fact that Eircom.net were investigating my complaint about their error in submitting to accounts a totally incorrect calculation which I had to pay.

As with a lot of large organisations, the right hand never knows nor will it acknowledge what the left hand is doing. I will not elaborate further except to state that if you are impressed by Eircom.ie accounts department which is part of eircom Ltd.

Then we are living on different planets.

Best wishes,

Yours,

Paddy20 :eek:

I've had no bad experiences customer-wise, though I do acknowledge that people can have problems with Eircom. My main gripe with Eircom is that they charge too high for net access. But, they haven't pulled off an 'Esat Job' with me, so I favor them that little bit more, not that much more though...

Btw, welcome back to the boards

stormkeeper

Btw, dahamsta, I found a letter lol and one of the former bills from Esat, and thay stated that my mum owed them €21.89 (letter was sent on 15th May 2002). However, there was a bill sent to me on the 24th of April 2002 with no money taken off it, and just a 'Thank you for payment' put across the payment advice section. I'm really wondering what is going on here... First they say I've paid up, then they charge my mums account the 21.89... Both have different customer numbers as well, so there must besomething up. I'm sure that Esat were charging my mum for SNL, even though it was signed up in my name. It basically confusesthe hell out of me

Paddy20

Kennett,

Very many thanks, for the welcome back to the boards! on your last message.

Good start to the day, and glad to hear that you have not had any bad experiences with Eircom.ie (Accounts department)/eircom Ltd??...

Wish I could say the same because thats all I have had with them i.e. "Very bad experiences".

But wait, Paddy20 is now free from their clutches, hopefully!.

Hope you are keeping well.

Best wishes.

Yours,

Paddy20;)

LFCFan

I've set up a website, EsatSucks.Com and at the moment you can go there and submit your Esat stories. When there's enough I'll post them up there. Also, if you have any suggestions for the site let me know and I'll do what I can.

spongebob

....Why is this the first post your EVER made where you actually mentioned ESAT......I did a WHOIS ESATSUCKS out of curiosity.

While you have voiced you anger at Eircom you never mentioned Esat in any of your posts until now.

Seems a bit like a honeytrap to me.

M

LFCFan

.....is with Eircom but all the Esat threads renewed my disgust with Esat as I also received many letters looking for money I didn't owe them. I don't want anything other then to give a central place for all these complaints to be heard and somewhere that Esat might even notice in time. If I could have I would have registered EircomSucks.com but someone beat me to it and are sitting on it.