Serious situation which I'm not sure how to deal with...

Oeneus

Right, myself and a few friends kipped at this friend's house a few days ago and spent the night drinking our arses off and playing silly drinking games. As much fun as it was for a while moods slowly turned stale. Some people turned up arguing about things that I just wasn't following as I was sitting in the corner sipping now n' again. After about half an hour people are punching holes in the wall and crying etc.

Most of us didn't know what was going on and had trouble trying to understand being completely sloshed etc. But it turns out that this girl, who we've all known for years and didn't realise this was happening,HAS BEEN CONSTANTLY BEATEN BY HER PARENTS. Apparently this has been going on since she was 4 years old.

At this moment we're (2 of us) staying with her at her house over night to make sure she doesn't get hurt. But we can't do this forever. We're simply waiting to witness this happening so we can actually take action. All that's happened so far is her parents calling her downstairs, having these 10 minute conversations and her coming back up and telling us that they're threatening to throw us out the window or something like that.

Another option we have taken is having her stay with us but again it's something that can't be perminant.

Does anyone have any experience with situations like this and could give me advise. I really think I can't do anything about it until I actually witness something physical happening. All we can do at the moment is watch over her 24/7 which is impossible.

TacT

that is a v.sticky mess, does she have any bruises/marks that show she has been abused?

Has she not tried to seek help from anyone? Her godmother or godfather would be ideal (depending on what age she is and how much responsibility they are willing to take for the girl).

Call the gardai.....obviously.

Give her a pocket tape recorder or mic/whatever/minidisc player and record the verbal/physical abuse then threaten the parents with it's evidence.

I have no idea what you should do, I don't suppose a group of you could call around and confront the parents themselves and tell them that if she gets abused once more you will be calling the garda and ensuring they receive appropriate treatment for their actions.

Are the parents alcoholics?

First thing is, what age is this girl?

Oeneus

Well she's 17. Older than me. I don't know about her parents, but I've been staying with her for the last couple of days and the amount of empty cans and cheap vodka bottles is diabolical. It's obviously having a negative (in terms of drink) affect on her. So I'm kind of concerned. She's drinking lots and as far as I know she hasn't done anything about further education/college. I assume she's finished secondary school.(in the UK)

At this current time I see no bruises/marks on her. Under her clothes I have no right in looking. But from what I can see there's nothing. But she said she has been given black eyes in the past. This is why I can't go to the police as I have no proof. All I have is her word and her tears.

I don't want to have to get a group of people to confront her parents as, while I'm trying to prevent her from getting hurt, I don't want anyone else getting hurt either. Although trying to get them to hurt us could be good proof and a reason to sue them etc. but it could end out worse than expected.

Her godparents is an idea but I'll have to find out who they are and contact them myself. I don't think she's capable. I'm just hoping she is a christian. I never thought I'd need anything in relation to religion in my life.

NeMiSiS

what do you mean you have no proof? you have a girl whos ****ing terrified of her asshole parents and drinking herself into oblivion over it.

If she goes to the cops I cant realy see them being anything but understanding their hardly going to say 'o your imagining it' she has to say 'my parents have physically abused me since i was a child and im frightend out of my mind of them now,and have to get my firiends to stay over because im afraid they are going to hit me please help me and get me out of their reach'

This aint a dectivive movie yeah getting real hardcore evidence would o the trick but is she not going to have to be beaten up to get that do you want that ..? your a witness to the state she is in over this so are your friends, go now dont hold out on those ****ers hitting her again

nem

Corega

You have got to ask her if she would be prepared to see her parents in jail, they should be but she might not like it. What are your intentions staying in her house, are you planning to take physical action against them? I would, but never ever take my advice. I would agree with what Tack said about going to the Gardai, if they call over and tell her parents that they know whats going on this could be a wake up call for her parents, it would tell them if it continued that they would know the harsh reality of prison, not that they don't deserve it.

Caesar_Bojangle

before you consider taking any further action are you certain she is not making it up to get back at her parents for something, if she is making up false allegations it will be worse for her in the long run if the garda get involved. (As you said you have seen no marks/bruises on her body).

A reason why they may be pissed of with her at the moment may be the fact that you and you friend are living in their house at the moment(most ppl would).

Until you have actually witnessed her parents beating her, you have no real proof, and just because they shout at her does not mean that are harming her (every parent shouts at their child at some stage).

If it turns out she is making it up just think how much of a fool you would look if it went to court, that said if you have proof, go to her aunt/uncle or friend of the family.

Oeneus

Originally posted by Caesar_Bojangle
before you consider taking any further action are you certain she is not making it up to get back at her parents for something, if she is making up false allegations it will be worse for her in the long run if the garda get involved. (As you said you have seen no marks/bruises on her body).

A reason why they may be pissed of with her at the moment may be the fact that you and you friend are living in their house at the moment(most ppl would).

Until you have actually witnessed her parents beating her, you have no real proof, and just because they shout at her does not mean that are harming her (every parent shouts at their child at some stage).

If it turns out she is making it up just think how much of a fool you would look if it went to court, that said if you have proof, go to her aunt/uncle or friend of the family.

This is exactly why I'm asking for advise. I really believe her due to the fact she seems emotionally screwed. But I just don't know enough and I feel I need to see this for myself before taking action otherwise it could turn seriously sour. If I screw it up this will stay in my head forever and I will be thinking Why the hell did I bother?

But if it really is happening, which at the moment I'm telling myself to assume it is happening, I really need to help sort this out.

She was obviously drunk when she told me this but she might have been over-reacting. I mean you don't know with drink. But then again she probably felt she had to get drunk to have the guts to say something. So really you can't tell.

Well this is what I've decided to do. For now, I'm going to give her my phone number and 2 other friend's phone numbers, and if anything happens she is to ring one of us. This is what I'm going to do until I can get hold of a tape recorder...and tell her to carry it in her pocket at all times. (Our those small pocket sized ones good enough? I mean will they pick up everything while in her pocket?). This is basically all I can do for now.

Then if I manage to get something out of this, then it's either Godparents or police, depending on what she prefers me to do.

smiles

Firstly, does *she* want to take action?

Is she in a fit state of mind to do things about this?

I have a friend who's parents have beaten her up regularly, but she's asked me not to do anything, leaving me in a kind of a limbo state, it's incredibly difficult but all i could do was go with what she wanted.

Ask the girl what she wants.

<< Fio >>

LegacyUser

You want some advice... well here it is.

Stand up and call the cops, if you care that's what you'll do... that might be difficult when you are as young as you are, but as I'm 22 and a former mod here take some free advice from me.

Either forget entirely about it and go about your life with as little contact with that girl as possible or help her.

Here is a scenario for you assuming you care... call the cops on the violent person in question on your own and without telling the girl and if the voilence doesn't stop find some other way to make it happen.....

Oeneus

She has told us. Therefore I assume she's crying for help. We said that we would help and she accepted.

But she's worrying her ass off because she is scared that we will get hurt.

We have told her that if they touch us, it's more than we need to bang them up, but she's ****ting herself thinking we're going to end up getting killed etc. Possible but unlikely. But I still don't care. I'll take whatever I need to prove that they're a couple of controlling sons a' bitches.

I talked to her a couple of hours ago about education. not only is she drinking but she's quit college and basically gone downhill in life. And I think this is the cause of it. This is why I so much believe that it's happening.

LegacyUser

Thoughts and action should only be started when the sober reality is brought before you

I hate hypothetics
all you can offer is common sense until then....



btw I have met a person that did it to him/her self,

azezil

While her apparent cry for help may be a true one, i'm more inclinded to agree with SearrarD, drunkin confessions are most often tripe.

Oeneus

We'll see. If she really is getting hurt I'm going to be seriously pissed off.

PyjamaMan

phone that charity for the protection of children if you can do nothing else, at least then you have some professional advice.

daveirl

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Oeneus

I'm not prepared to **** up the lives of two, possibly three people without any proof first. Otherwise I'd hate myself for it.

Anyway, I asked earlier and I'll bring it up again as I was given no answers:

"Our those small pocket sized tape recorders good enough? I mean will they pick up everything while in her pocket etc?"

PyjamaMan

those wee dooda's r great, my da uses them when the paramilitries in belfast want racketering money, so he can give names to the plice with evidence. there a good wee job, if i were you id hire one out.

daveirl

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Oeneus

what I meant was...I'm not willing to fvck up her parents lives unless they deserve it ie. They really are abusing her. Thus, asking her to record it on tape for me.

Am I making sense to everyone now?

azezil

Originally posted by Oeneus
Am I making sense to everyone now?

Yes, and i agree with ya. Its a serious alligation to make you'd, anyone in this situation, should ensure they had no doubts the claims were factual and have evidence to back up the claims before doing anything.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

smiles

Listen, regardless of what you assume her telling you means, you *must* make sure you are doing what she wants you to do.

Do *not* try and "tape" a scene. thats meaningless, and you dont need physical evidence as there are other signs and children who are in bits over stuff like this rarely have proof.

Ring the ISPCC, look up the number in a phone book, dont give them any names, etc, and ask what you should do, and go from there - they will tell you what proof, etc. you need.

<< Fio >>

Oeneus

Thanks smiles. I'll do that now. I'll inform you how I get on anyway.

PyjamaMan

good luck mate

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Oeneus

Right, well here's an update.

On Tuesday I think it was, I phoned the NSPCC for advise. We spoke for about 20 minutes talking about my/her options. At the end of the day it boiled down to this option, as difficult it might be to stomach, is to wait for proof ie. Wait for her to get her ass kicked.

I asked them about the tape recorder idea and she said that I wouldn't actually be allowed to do so without permission from who we are recording so fvck that.

Basically I feared to talk to her about her options and the fact that I phoned the NSPCC for advise etc. until today, and I'm bloody glad I've got it over and done with after it eatingt through my brain all week.

First I asked her if she still wants us to help her. She says yes but she still fears that we might get hurt in the process.

Secondly I asked her if she was willing to see her parents get done for this. She says that the problem is that if she does call the police etc. they'll just get angry at her for doing it. Basically I told her she needs to stick up for herself and tell them that she can't take any more of this sh1t from them etc., but easier said than done.

Then told her about this option of waiting for her to get beaten. And then just said if she does get hit by them to ring me or ring so and so blah blah blah blah.....! Then we phone social services, who get on to the police etc. providing she's willing to let us do so.

And I told her I can't really do anymore at this point in time. Now I can sleep...

Caesar_Bojangle

What if she (maybe with you +your mate) sits down and talks with her parents and warns them if they touch her again that she will go to the cops without any hesitation.

If the cops do become involved and it does go to court and they are convicted of abuse, her father/mother will more than likely lose their jobs, lose a huge amount of cash on solicitor fee's, possible jail sentence, lose custody of any other kids in the family and they would end up in a foster home and finally sever any sort of relationship between her and her parents.

Maybe if they were aware of this, they would leave her alone. But ya gotta be 100% sure its happening, not just her seeking revenge or attention.

As i know a girl who fabricates a loada lies/bullshlt about ppl and her family to gain pity or even attention from others who are willing to believe. There are many ppl like this out there in this fLlcked up world. If she has done stuff like this in the past (make up stories), i'd be cautious.

You dont want to fLlck up a whole family for the sake of someone trying to gain some petty revenge or attention, if its true and you have proof you could always ring up the cops with an anonymous phone call or even under the name The Mischievous Imp .

Boomcha

Oeneus

Like I said...We patiently wait for proof.

Wish us luck!

Caesar_Bojangle

luck


Boomcha

PyjamaMan

ill sya a prayer for ya at mass

LegacyUser

I'd still go with the wire tap.

G'luck with it mate, but be cautious.
Don't jump at this as some sort of chacne to provehow mature and responsible you can be.

It's cool what you're trying to do - help your friend, but the root of this - drink - seems rather suspicious to say the least.
Be careful. Don't hang yourself with your own shoelaces.

Thanx 4 The Fish

I don't know how much use this is to you but I have some experience with children who have faced this kind of abuse and have been removed from their families. My family foster and have don for nigh on twenty years. Mostly short term stuff but we are on a crisis care list whereby if there is a situation where a child needs immediate placement they are brought around to ours.

One child we took in was chased with an axe by his father. This was reported by a neighbour, thus the placement, but the child never spoke up against his dad and so was returned into his care. He came back to us about a month later in a mess of bruises etc. He still would not speak up against his dad but the health board moved him to a home after a while. The father did not end up jailed(as I believe he should have been) because the health board had only the physical evidence without the child's statement to corroborate it. From what we heard was back to his father within a couple of months.

We have been involved with alot of kids though who have had to testify against their parents. Most of the time there is a conviction but there is not a jail sentence. In our experience very few parents get jailed, but alot of the children are moved into residental care.

Like I said I don't know how much use this will be to you but it may help you to know what you could expect.

Oeneus

Thanks for that Fish. Do you think I should print that out and show it to her? It could make her see sense.

smiles

Originally posted by SyxPak
I'd still go with the wire tap.

It's the fruit of the poison tree Syx, even if they have evidence from an illegal source they are not allowed to use it.

<< Fio >>

Thanx 4 The Fish

I dunno if it is a matter of seeing sense, but if she is seriously thinking of making a complaint, she should know what the consequences could be.

Caesar_Bojangle

spot on fish, thats more or less what i said earlier, you appear to be the only one who agrees with me. She has to think of the consequences not just to her but her whole family especially if its not the whole truth she is telling you.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Has there been any word on what has happened here ?

LegacyUser

If something new happens I'll inform you. So far, nothing new.

Oeneus

Wayhey! She's starting to see sense!

She has moved out and is currently living with a friend.

Apparently she went to her father and told him she was leaving, he threatened to break her fingers and then she just walked out. Whether thats true or not I don't care. She's done the right thing either way.

That's not the only good news...I was accepted into a college today! I'm happy!

Thanks People!!

Gordon

Congrats Oenus, excellent news.

Oeneus

I got a hug for it aswell. That was pretty cool. I haven't gotten one of those before:D. It makes it all worth it in the end.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Oeneus

Thank God? What did he do? I never get the credit I deserve. That heavenly bastard leaves me to do all the work and he still gets all the attention!:rolleyes:

Thanx 4 The Fish

Am glad that it seems to have worked out well there Oeneus, congrats on college too.

Oeneus

Well...here's an update...although its a bit out of subject. But what's been happening lately? I have decided I hate her(the girl we've been talking about throughout this thread). Why? Well let me tell you.

Friday night we (about 7 of us) camped out in the woods and drank(I know I know, campings for camp people etc. ) but anyway...

Well is all pished and so on...she tries it on me and I decline (she ain't thew prettiest of girls and she's a bit of a slag), she then moves on to a friend of mine, who also declines. Then, I say then, she goes to my best friend who's passed out in a tent and unable to move and who isn't single, and throws herself on him(topless, not that there's anything to see).
He then wakes up the next morning in tears thinking that he has cheated on his girlfriend who he has been going out with for a year who were deeply in love. The next thing he does, because of guilt, finishes his relationship with his girlfriend. He then drinks himself silly again. I try to convince him he's done no wrong but he doesn't listen.

Since then my attitude towards "her" has been very different. I take the piss out of everything she says and have been using a lot of sarcasm towards her. She has noticed this and has asked me why I'm acting like this? I just stay silent.

If she doesn't figure it out soon I'll fuucking spit it out right in her face and see what happens. Fuccking slapper!:mad: :mad:

Harmo

I dont think any of us expected to see that 1 coming

smiles

Originally posted by Oeneus
Since then my attitude towards "her" has been very different. I take the piss out of everything she says and have been using a lot of sarcasm towards her. She has noticed this and has asked me why I'm acting like this? I just stay silent.

If she doesn't figure it out soon I'll fuucking spit it out right in her face and see what happens. Fuccking slapper!:mad: :mad:

Listen, she's obviously been through an incredibly rough time and it sounds like she was desperately looking for attention.

Firstly, tell your mate he's done nothing.

Secondly, TALK TO HER. From the way you reacted to the situation she was in earlier you obviously cared and just giving her a silent act is not the way to go.

Calling her a slapper, etc. wont do any good. Tell her that she's destroyed a relationship and that you've lost a lot of respect for her, then ask her to talk to the guy and tell him nothing happened.

I'd suggest she gets a pyschologist, she's been through ****, and really needs help.

<< Fio >>

Beruthiel

why do think she acts this way Oeneus? don't you think she has very little love in her life and will reach out and try and get it where ever she can, even if she's looking in all the wrong places. She is probably desperate to feel normal and cared for. As Smiles said, talk to her!
Drink, when you can't handle it alway's seem's to cause problems and situations you would rather forget about and wished never happened!

seamus

Seeing as your best mate won't listen to you on what happened, try talking to his (ex)girlfriend. If she doesn't know this girl, then it shouldn't cause any problems. Chances are, she's the only one your best mate will listen to at the moment. It seems your only real concern at the moment is your best mate, and there's not really much way you could make things any worse by talking to his gf

LegacyUser

Oh hell no! I can't talk to his gf. She does know her and her opinion of her before this happened hasn't been a very good one.

And in the last couple of weeks my opinion of her has also sunk.

I forgot to mention also that she has moved back into her parents house. I will explain this story when I have more time.

But anyway, I met her mother not long ago and she seems completely harmless. On the same day I watched her fight (verbally) with her parents, and I have to say she was very harsh towards her mother. Bratty in other words.

After this I started trying to see things from her parents point of view. And to me, I think she would be a complete nightmare to take care of. After all this I am losing my trust for her.

She is also embarrassing me with her drinking antics.

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Oeneus
Oh hell no! I can't talk to his gf. She does know her and her opinion of her before this happened hasn't been a very good one.

And in the last couple of weeks my opinion of her has also sunk.

I forgot to mention also that she has moved back into her parents house. I will explain this story when I have more time.

But anyway, I met her mother not long ago and she seems completely harmless. On the same day I watched her fight (verbally) with her parents, and I have to say she was very harsh towards her mother. Bratty in other words.

After this I started trying to see things from her parents point of view. And to me, I think she would be a complete nightmare to take care of. After all this I am losing my trust for her.

She is also embarrassing me with her drinking antics.

i think you should try growning up and stop being a dramatic little premadonna.
always always always try to get as much information about a situation before you go and damn someone.
you like this girl, she seems to have her own issues, youve seen under the covers and now you dont like it. that doesnt give you the right to put her down.
nor for that matter does it give you the right to with hold information from her when she asks you about it, she doesnt understand and shes come forward to confront you. shes got more balls than you. you can at least have the decency to tell her what you think, and maybe you can get another side of avery lop-sided story.
ever hear the motto never judge a book by its cover?

and spit in her face?
are you for real?
grow up.

oh, and oyure embarrassed becuase she is doing things that take you out of your comfort zone. you will meet a lot of people like this. most people will laugh becuase this puts them back in their comfort zone, some people go with it, and some people hate it so much the get violent or argumentative, or just plain start to hate those people. you seem to be one of these types.
learn to deal with.