Drug Laws

Shinji

im not even going to bother trying to come back against such a letiney of half truths and flawhoods. you havent provided a single stred of objective commentary. It is imposable to debate with a person who obviously has as much personal experience with drugs as yourself.

BOSTON SPECIAL ATTACK! Throw out as many hackneyed debating phrases as you can in one paragraph! One of them is bound to stick, even if it's the kind of indefensible crap that you used to get marked down for coming out with in debates in school when you were 14!

Oh, and have a go at the character of the guy you're arguing with, that always wins brownie points with the crowd. You bloody idiot.



Typedef - my word, you are an angry young chap. I reckon you should calm down. Smoking a joint would probably help, actually.

Typedef

Dustaz

Do you know me? Are we mates? How the hell do you know thing one about me? Do me a favor and get lost will you? Go find someone else to troll.
Thanks

Dustaz

Originally posted by Boston
well if someone in public office was stupid enough to admitt smoking dope then they must be doing it at the time.

its like to see teh stats to back up your claims dustin, or are you just a talking turkey?

They dont admit it. If you think im going to 'name and shame' then youve got another thing coming.

Originally posted by Typedef
Dustaz

Do you know me? Are we mates?

Not in this lifetime mate

Go find someone else to troll.
Thanks

Go find somewhere else to espouse your factually incorrect and totalitarian views. thx.

Shinji

Do you know me? Are we mates? How the hell do you know thing one about me? Do me a favor and get lost will you? Go find someone else to troll.

Since you're anti-cannabis, I do have to ask what the hell other drug you're doing right now, because last I checked nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide and trace gases don't do that to the human brain.

You posted on a public forum thread. Dustaz posted a reply. This is called a "discussion board". Amazingly, people who don't even know you in real life can respond to things you say here!

So it's okay - he's not stalking you or anything. No need to throw a paranoid mickey-fit and start chucking your toys out of the pram, there's a good lad.

RasTa

the way it is now its that cannibis users are in the same catogory as speed,e and lsd user which is just wrong
whens the last time you could drop a pill or a tab and still act normal?
i never thought i'd say this but we should follow england on the ganja front

manonthemoon

Typedef,

Dude, it is Friday, You have got to relax.

U been looking at the computer screen too long

Skin UP

Typedef

Wow you're so liberal you support decriminalisation of cannabis, wow you must be an enlightened and illucidated person.
In fact you must be so knowledagble about this topic that you can pass judgement on me.... well thanks for the moral critique, be sure I have taken your unbiased comments on board and will assimilate them at my earliest opportunity, really.

Dustaz, perhaps if you take Shinji's advice and go get yourself wasted you will be a little less quick to jump the gun.
You think I'm small minded? Who cares. I certainly won't be loosing sleep over it, but hark, I hear the world's smallest violin playing the world's saddest song and it's playing 'Bob Marley'.
Snif.
Do me a favor and get out of my face, muchos gracias.
Typedef

Shinji

Do me a favor and get out of my face, muchos gracias.

Hey, you're the one that hopped into the thread exhibiting the worst case of poor anger management since Adolf Hitler's package holiday in Poland didn't pan out right.

Typedef

Totalitarian... can I invoke that law about winning an argument when someone compares you to a nazi? Goodwin's law?
Does this mean I won, great. Thanks for that Shinji/Dustaz matie mates, muchos apprecias.

Cuidado con el gato

Typedef

Originally posted by Shinji


Since you're anti-cannabis, I do have to ask what the hell other drug you're doing right now, because last I checked nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide and trace gases don't do that to the human brain.

You posted on a public forum thread. Dustaz posted a reply. This is called a "discussion board". Amazingly, people who don't even know you in real life can respond to things you say here!

So it's okay - he's not stalking you or anything. No need to throw a paranoid mickey-fit and start chucking your toys out of the pram, there's a good lad.

Well well you were stalking Boston on IRC last night when he wasn't there so you know evidance to the contrary.

Boston

lovely this thread going to get closed because of your small minded bigotest.

i really dont know what your problem is shinji, for someone that smoke the amount of canabis you claim to, you should be very relaxed, unless your one of those people who gets paranoid and depressed from canabis, that is.

Now please can we stop all the bickering and the fusing, when bonkey see's this he aint going to be happy

Typedef

Feel free to delete most of my diatribe.

Dustaz

Originally posted by Typedef

Cannabis is for dopes hence the name 'dope' funnily enough,

no

but hey if you want to nuke your short term memory feel free to visit your local dealer, feel free to stay in bed and waste your life away smoking dope, who cares.

no
As has been proven by the general 'life continuing as normal' which is evident if you look around.

Just don't try and impose your filthy disgusting, mind rotting psychotic drug on me

Noones trying to impose it on you. The choice is yours and yours alone to make.

and don't try and make it available on your platform of 'more politically correct than thou' because no one cares nor wants to hear it.

Nothing to do with PC. Read up on the facts regarding the drug, then come back with some coherent arguments to support your case.

Looking forward to your next troll.

Boston

dustin, your under the impression that your opinion counts, therefore when you say no, that like a statement of fact, after all you are our lord talking turkey who au'rt in turkey coup, hallowed be his name.

manonthemoon

Friday and i'm all out!

I hates that. Dont mind kissing but I hat that.

I remember living in Sydney and there used to be a fella going around in a taxi.

You would ring him up

"Hello"

"Can i get a taxi mate"

"Where are ye, mate?"

"whats your number?"

"99628231"

"I'll be there in fifteen minutes"

"Thanks mate"

15 mins later. The phones rings twice and stops

Walk outside. get in the passenger seat of the taxi

"Well, how ye going"

"Good mate, yourself

"Not a bother, can a get a fifty off ye"

"No worries, mate. There ye go"

"Thank you"


Oh Happy Days!

swiss

Erm, calm down guys. I would be much more attentive to the points you are trying to make if you try to refute posts rather than those who posted them. If you feel they are unenlightened then feel free to enlighten them with rational arguments.

Firstly I should say that I have little or no experience in relation to illicit drugs. I enjoy a drink as much as the next man (although I used to be a borderline alcoholic in my first year of college ) but I don't smoke, or take any drugs for that matter.

I feel pretty ambivalent in relation to cannibis and any proposed attempt to legalise it. On one hand I feel that I don't really know enough about cannabis and it's effects to determine the short and long term effects it might have on my body, and therefore for the time being I would not be anxious to try it. Of course, I have been too lazy to follow those WHO links . Given the great scientific debates that have raged over so many aspects of our lives, I would suspect that there is division on the effects cannabis has on our bodies. However, I'll wait till I know more before I pass final judgement.

However, even if cannabis is shown to have a detrimental effect on human health, I would still be cautious in supporting moves to copperfasten it's illegality. Take a gander at this thread which helps explain my reasoning behind this assertion.

My gut instinct is to err on the side of caution, wait until the studies that have been conducted have had time to filter through into the public domain, where they can be rationally inspected/rationalised/refuted before we take a gung-ho approach to a more permissive society.

Feel free to deride this opinion / call me a Nazi as appropriate.

Shinji

My gut instinct is to err on the side of caution, wait until the studies that have been conducted have had time to filter through into the public domain, where they can be rationally inspected/rationalised/refuted before we take a gung-ho approach to a more permissive society

I agree, but I feel that we're really at that point already. Much of the issue with drugs information is that the water is muddied by the vested intrests on both sides; in general the anti-drugs lobby is prepared to demonise drugs at the expense of the truth.

I tend to believe that this causes more harm than good; studies have shown that drug awareness programs which attempted to show kids that ALL drugs are inherently bad failed miserably, simply because most of the kids had tried cannabis and, if not liked it, certainly not experienced any ill effects. Tarring this with the same brush as genuinely dangerous Class A substances is obviously not the way to go - you're practically encouraging people to experiment with hard drugs by categorising them alongside soft drugs.

bonkey

Guys...

calm down a little bit, and get back to discussing the topic.

Ive received one complaint, and looking briefly here, Im surprised there havent been more. I havent time to mod them now, but I will need to do so this evening.

I think its a highly interesting topic, worthy of discussion/debate, but lets stick to discussing the topic. At the end of the day, if you feel someone is spouting complete and utter tripe, make your point once and ignore them thereafter - dont let it degenerate into a name-calling succession of tit-for-tat posts.

jc

Boston

Swiss makes a good point,

the reason why I put so much faith in what the guy told me is because he took the time to explain it to me in a very rational non condescending, non in your face type of way. he spoke from his heart of his experiences with people.

now to me that's going to have a much better effect on people then saying things like "here your having got a ****ing clue, I tell you what the story is, but only because your a retard."

that's no way to try and inform someone of the facts, most likely you will merely get someone's back up and make them more and more entrenched in their believe that you are wrong.

you have to decide what you want, do you want to actually inform people about something and get rid of a misconception(nothing wrong in having them, everybody does) like boney tries to do, or do you want to use you superior knowledge in that particular field to put someone down and make you feel good about yourself for doing so.

now my view points have changes and not because Dustin and shinji were trying to annoy me, but because bonkey made some damn fine and undeniable points, in an non offensive fashion. I glad someone here knows what they are doing

m1ke

everything in moderation except hard drugs and incest

Canaboid

People have a tendency to turn to cannabis generally because they realise that any low feelings that they are experiencing will drift away with a joint. This is because cannabis messes with the pleasure centre in the brain. This is the part of your brain that teaches you how to react to different experiences. Your pleasure centre reacts well to cannabis...it becomes relaxed and drowsy. This pleasure is a *fake* pleasure, unlike the normal pleasures experienced in life, and the brain cannot process this fully. The pleasure centre of the brain is what conditions you. Messing with it is risky. Cannabis does not leave the body. It has no exit. Over time, cannabis levels build up in the body. This means, that because the pleasure centre is activated by it, the body is unaware of damage being done.

Cannabis can lead, used over a long time, to depression, paranoia, and ultimately, irreversible mental illness. It meddles with the switchboard in the brain, so that incoming and outcoming messages get confused. This is where the paranoia springs from.

The cerebrum (part of brain responsible for judgement), the cerebellum (part of brain for organising muscle function), and medulla and midbrain (connects cerebrum to spinal chord) are all damaged and slowed by cannabis use.

It is a sedative, and lowers the activity of the central nervous system. That means, if the body is attacked with a virus or is injured, it will be dull to react. This can stay with you all your life, thus meaning that you are more likely to die if ever contracting a disease.

Despite research, the way cannabis acts on the chemical make-up of the body is unpredictable. That is why it has not been used in medicine since 1930. Scientists believe that cannabis competes with other natural chemicals in the brain, thus retarding hormone growth. This lowers sex drive, and in women, can retard a baby's growth.

The reason people who have taken cannabis over a long period of time seem slow, is because they are brain-damaged. I am not kidding. They have put their brain to sleep, and there is no way to wake it.

The force of action in cannabis a substance called THC, and is suurprisingly similar to LSD. These are both poisons. Not all hash is the same. Powder hash resin can be up to 16 times strogner than than ordinary marijuana. Depends where its grown, etc.

Temptation becomes tough to resist when cannabis is nearby because the smell activates the pleasure centre. Psychological dependance can occur very quickly. Physical dependance does *not* occur, though.

Effects on the body include bloodshot eyes, dizziness, headaches, backaches, dry nose, mouth and eyes, sick stomach, tendency to become accident prone, asthmatic attacks, sleeplessness, anxiety, depression and psychosomatic pain (ie - you imagine it).

Longterm, since the tars are much stronger and more numerous than those of tobacco, the risks of lung cancer, mouth cancer, throat cancer, painful mucus membrane problems (ie nasal tissues) and if you eat it, stomach cancer, are very high.

The story about nobody dying from hash and lots dying from cigarettes is an urban myth. People *do* die from hash poisoning, and from cancer related to their hash habits.


I know more stuff - but that is a summary. It is not good in any way. Do what you like - but don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about. I have seen ruined lives because of drug use. I have done research and carried out surveys and won debates.

If anybody wants to know about other drugs, I have a smattering of knowledge about most things and I am always happy to spread the good word.

Canaboid

Oh yeah, go here to see how this topic has already been beaten to death
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21339&perpage=20&highlight=cannabis%20legalise&pagenumber=1

It contains a lot more links to relevant info and basically covers all the arguments quite well.

Boston without being disparaging you need to learn the facts on this issue before you can expect to be taken seriously by people who obviously know a lot more about it.

Typedef, I hope you're trolling.

manonthemoon

Canaboid

I'm not doubting you. Your opinions sound very factful

Are you a doctor, counsellor?

Whats your background

logic1

Originally posted by manonthemoon
Canaboid

I'm not doubting you. Your opinions sound very factful

Are you a doctor, counsellor?

Whats your background

I really don't think there's any need to call for someones credentials here.

If someone makes reasonable valid points and can back it up with fact whether from studies or medical data etc etc.. then that should be more than acceptable for others to form an educated opinion on.

We've seen references to alot of information regarding studies from the WHO and "New Scientist" magazine what seems to be missing is links to information regarding the massive detrimental side effects of cannabis use which alot of users are shouting about.

Can we get some studies or medical data links for those??

.logic.

Shinji

Canaboid - excellent post, and almost entirely factually accurate; however I think that you have missed out on the crucial point that the serious side effects you describe are found only in a very tiny minority of cannabis users after a significant amount of use/abuse of the drug.

These are not typical effects, and indeed the instance of heavy cannabis use actually damaging people is almost certainly less on a per-user basis than the instance of heavy alcohol use damaging people.

There are a few other areas I'd question - however I'm fully prepared to be proved wrong on these.

Despite research, the way cannabis acts on the chemical make-up of the body is unpredictable. That is why it has not been used in medicine since 1930.

Actually I'm given to believe that cannabis is still available in aerosol form for medical use in countries where it has not been banned outright.

Temptation becomes tough to resist when cannabis is nearby because the smell activates the pleasure centre. Psychological dependance can occur very quickly.

Again, just to hammer home the point that this is not actually all that common. Several studies - including some recent ones in the UK - have shown that psychological dependence on cannabis occurs in a very low number of cases. Many cannabis users drop into a pattern of smoking on a semi-regular basis, but very few find it difficult to go without a joint, any more than any other non-critical pattern breaking.

Effects on the body include bloodshot eyes, dizziness, headaches, backaches, dry nose, mouth and eyes, sick stomach, tendency to become accident prone, asthmatic attacks, sleeplessness, anxiety, depression and psychosomatic pain (ie - you imagine it).

These are mostly side effects due to cannabis intolerance. In fact, a great many people - myself included, on occasion - use cannabis in order to deal with backaches, sleeplessness and anxiety, and I know of people who use it to deal with depression with generally positive effects.

Longterm, since the tars are much stronger and more numerous than those of tobacco, the risks of lung cancer, mouth cancer, throat cancer, painful mucus membrane problems (ie nasal tissues) and if you eat it, stomach cancer, are very high.

This depends entirely on your intake, of course. I think it's fair to say that for the most part we've been discussing casual/occasional smoking here, as opposed to "stoners" - the cannabis equivalent of an alcoholic/drunk.

The higher tars in cannabis do not compensate for the fact that the majority of cannabis smokers smoke far, far fewer joints than tobacco smokers do cigarettes or cigars.

The story about nobody dying from hash and lots dying from cigarettes is an urban myth. People *do* die from hash poisoning, and from cancer related to their hash habits.

On the cancer viewpoint, of course - inhaling smoke is never going to be a clever thing to do really, although realistically smoking a joint a couple of times a week probably does less harm than walking around central London/Dublin on a regular basis.

Regarding hash poisoning, I'd genuinely like to see your source on this. I've read a large number of scientific discussions of cannabis which have mentioned that there is no physically attainable lethal dose of the drug - making it less dangerous than something like caffeine - just under 80 cups of coffee and you're a goner!

Boston

wow shinji admitts he may have over simplified the effects of canabis. well done Canaboid

bonkey

I think a point which is being generally overlooked here is the massive difference in reality between substance use and substance abuse.

At the moment, substance abuse is a legal term used to apply to any illicit use of a "controlled" substance. However, if we distance ourselves from the current legalities, we can view it in a completely different light.

When we look at the ill effects of marijuana, it is typically taken out of all context. We look at the long-term effects of massive substance abuse. People say "oh - its terrible - it must remain illegal". But hang on a second - we have thousands of people dying from moderate substance abuse in the form of nicotine. We have equally massive numbers of people dying from alcohol abuse. And yet these are legal?

Taken in moderation, the general scientific consensus is that marijuana has no long-term harmful side effects.

Moderation is a tough term to define. You cant say "one joint per day is ok", because you should be more concerned with the THC intake than the quantity of grass you go through. Ignoring this difference is like talking about "drink intake" by quantity without specifying if you're talking about Bud Light or Blue Vodka.

So - please - unless you are willing to ban every substance which can harm you if taken in excessive quantities, then lets be honest - talking about the dangers of massive longterm marijuana abuse as the reason to illegalise it is facetious and misleading, because the same logic can be used to ban every element and compound on the planet.

Someone earlier raised the point about drink drivers, and whether a stoned driver would be worse or better. Well, for a start, the psychotropic effects of THC wear off far more quickly than those of alcohol, despite the THC remaining in your system for a vastly longer period of time. In that thread just linked to, there should be linkage about a study (from the US?) where it was discovered that there hasnt been a single driving fatality directly attributable to marijuana/THC. In almost every case where the drug was present, the driver
was also over the legal alcohol limit.

Now, I'm not going to take this as conclusive, but given the varying matabolic rates for these two substances, it is highly probable that the vast majority of mixed alcohol/THC cases are directly attributable to alcohol.

Incidentally, this also raises my largest concern about the legalisation of marijuana.

To the best of my knowledge, it is virtually impossible to test for active effects. If we were to say that any traces in your system above a certain level are enough for a conviction, then you could have drivers convicted for having smoked a joint several weeks previously - which is patently a ridiculous situation. The drug is no longer active - it is simply present.

On the other hand, if you can't test for the active quantity, then how do you test for "stoned drivers"?

This dilemma, for me, is the largest stumbling block in legalisation. Unless a workable testing system can be created, then the issue of public safety remains a major one.

bonkey

Originally posted by Canaboid
Longterm, since the tars are much stronger and more numerous than those of tobacco, the risks of lung cancer, mouth cancer, throat cancer, painful mucus membrane problems (ie nasal tissues) and if you eat it, stomach cancer, are very high.

I'm not trying to catch you out, but this (at best) slightly ambiguous.

Are you saying that quantity for quantity it is more dangerous, or that even after you allow for the vastly differing quantities typically ingested that it is *still* more dangerous.

Is there evidence of this, where effects of tobacco have been removed (i.e. testing with pure 'reefer'), or is it unproven speculation based on chemical analysis coupled with observation of the effects on typical canabis-smokers (who, incidentally, are almost exclusively also tobacco smokers, thereby making the analysis judgement vastly more different).

At the end of the day, I guess these facts depend on who you listen to. Tobacco companies have massive websites, and well-paid scientists all of whom allege time and time again that there is no solid evidence that tobacco is physically addictive, or even harmful. Their sole purpose in life is to poke holes in any findings which say otherwise.

While marijuana has somewhat less research done on it, I still find myself skeptical of most findings, as they still tend to be from studies funded by some group with a vested interest in having a particular result obtained. For this reason, I find studies like the afore-mentioned WHO report interesting. It made conclusions which the sponsors didnt like and which therefore were attempted to be suppressed - thankfully unsuccessfully.

As with anything in life, when it all comes down to it, I guess its a question of who you wish to believe, rather than believing you know the truth.

Personally, I am happy that marijuana presents substantially less risk to the individual and society in general than nicotine or alcohol, and that this should be one of the major considerations when discussing its legal status.

As one last note, I remember someone commenting at some point that all of the common drugs which have been left legalised are depressants - and that this is a recent phenonemon. For example - who knows (without going and researching it off the web) when marijuana was banned in Ireland. In England? In other European nations? People often assume it has always been illegal (or at least for a century or two) and may be surprised when they find out the real dates.

jc

Canaboid

Originally posted by neuro-praxis (circa 12 months ago)
People have a tendency to turn to cannabis generally because they realise that any low feelings that they are experiencing will drift away with a joint. This is because cannabis messes with the pleasure centre in the brain. This is the part of your brain that teaches you how to react to different experiences. Your pleasure centre reacts well to cannabis...it becomes relaxed and drowsy. This pleasure is a *fake* pleasure, unlike the normal pleasures experienced in life, and the brain cannot process this fully. The pleasure centre of the brain is what conditions you. Messing with it is risky. Cannabis does not leave the body. It has no exit. Over time, cannabis levels build up in the body. This means, that because the pleasure centre is activated by it, the body is unaware of damage being done.

Cannabis can lead, used over a long time, to depression, paranoia, and ultimately, irreversible mental illness. It meddles with the switchboard in the brain, so that incoming and outcoming messages get confused. This is where the paranoia springs from.

The cerebrum (part of brain responsible for judgement), the cerebellum (part of brain for organising muscle function), and medulla and midbrain (connects cerebrum to spinal chord) are all damaged and slowed by cannabis use.

It is a sedative, and lowers the activity of the central nervous system. That means, if the body is attacked with a virus or is injured, it will be dull to react. This can stay with you all your life, thus meaning that you are more likely to die if ever contracting a disease.

Despite research, the way cannabis acts on the chemical make-up of the body is unpredictable. That is why it has not been used in medicine since 1930. Scientists believe that cannabis competes with other natural chemicals in the brain, thus retarding hormone growth. This lowers sex drive, and in women, can retard a baby's growth.

The reason people who have taken cannabis over a long period of time seem slow, is because they are brain-damaged. I am not kidding. They have put their brain to sleep, and there is no way to wake it.

The force of action in cannabis a substance called THC, and is suurprisingly similar to LSD. These are both poisons. Not all hash is the same. Powder hash resin can be up to 16 times strogner than than ordinary marijuana. Depends where its grown, etc.

Temptation becomes tough to resist when cannabis is nearby because the smell activates the pleasure centre. Psychological dependance can occur very quickly. Physical dependance does *not* occur, though.

Effects on the body include bloodshot eyes, dizziness, headaches, backaches, dry nose, mouth and eyes, sick stomach, tendency to become accident prone, asthmatic attacks, sleeplessness, anxiety, depression and psychosomatic pain (ie - you imagine it).

Longterm, since the tars are much stronger and more numerous than those of tobacco, the risks of lung cancer, mouth cancer, throat cancer, painful mucus membrane problems (ie nasal tissues) and if you eat it, stomach cancer, are very high.

The story about nobody dying from hash and lots dying from cigarettes is an urban myth. People *do* die from hash poisoning, and from cancer related to their hash habits.


I know more stuff - but that is a summary. It is not good in any way. Do what you like - but don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about. I have seen ruined lives because of drug use. I have done research and carried out surveys and won debates.

If anybody wants to know about other drugs, I have a smattering of knowledge about most things and I am always happy to spread the good word.

Oh dear.

I put this up without the quotes as an exemplary example of the wrongly informed, obsinate and muddled thinking that is typical of the knee jerk, bad m'kay, anti cannabis/drug mentality. Sorry for the subterfuge. It was posted by a boards contributer about a year ago. I recommend going back and reading the (1st few pages at least, it's huge) in the original thread including testimony from a qualified medical practicioner, hi Bob. One thing that is striking on reflection is the difference in how our words were treated on each posting (check out the savaging she took in the original thread).

Another thing I've noticed about these threads on drugs is that the pro lobby are invariably, infinitely better informed, on all aspects of the issue, than the Nos. I am not going to seek advice on how to repair my computer from someone who has never seen one before (and especially one who can't post links to back up what they say ). A certain poster who shares a name with a large American city would do well to remember this.

One suprising omission from this thread is any suggestion of the benefical effect of cannabis. For shame.
Once you state that it is no more harmful than tobacco or alcohol you remove that argument against it's legalisation as there are for more compelling arguments for it's use than, say, ciggerettes.

I'm not going to retype whats already in the old thread but it covers (mostly with proof) issues such as:

Why it was banned and demonised in the first place. (paper/pharmacutical/chemical lobby in the 20s/30s. Yes folks they were even at it back then).

Medical effects, both good and bad.

Why cannabis IS a gateway drug but only by virtue of it's illegality.

The benefits of reclassification and more effective use of police time.

Why the internet is not the ideal medium to debate opposing beliefs.

etc.

Shinji I think you've proved the link between habitual use and memory loss

I'd like to thank cannabis for making this post possible (and curse it fot the typos and overuse of brackets)

Boston

ha you got shinji to swallow his own crap and you didnt even mean it. omg thats just priceless haa, and people pating you on the back for it. haa

i guess some people really cant see the wood from the trees and if you put an argrument nicely enough and simple enough people will believe it. haa

for now on your my favourite user here Canaboid, your allright by me, though i think shinji is going to be pissed