It's our right to carry guns!!!

seamus

Just to add a couple of cents:-

When I was doing my JC, my science teacher was a big sci-fi freak, and we got onto the subject of cars in the future - will they fly? He answered no, his logic being - when I leave college today, about 60% of the people I meet on the roads will do something stupid, be it an error in judgement, ignorance of other road users, or simply inexperience. I might be included in this 60% - nobody's perfect. Now would you trust this 60% of people to get into something that could fly at the end of day. Ummm...hell no.

Now apply the same logic to gun laws. I wouldn't trust around 80% of people not to do something extraordinarily stupid while carrying a handgun. In the U.S., you don't need any formal training to get one, and, as I gather, plenty of shops don't even insist on proper I.D. Even with a basic automatic pistol, in theory you could kill 15 people in less than 30 seconds. Craziness. If I ran my own country, people would be subject to a battery of psychological and intellectual tests before they were even allowed a gun to train with, and after some serious training with highly strict pass rules, they would have present once a year for the same psychological tests again.

In short, imo, if you want to bear arms, join the fu<kin army!!!

bonkey

Originally posted by seamus
Just to add a couple of cents:-

When I was doing my JC, my science teacher was a big sci-fi freak, and we got onto the subject of cars in the future - will they fly? He answered no, his logic being - when I leave college today, about 60% of the people I meet on the roads will do something stupid, be it an error in judgement, ignorance of other road users, or simply inexperience. I might be included in this 60% - nobody's perfect. Now would you trust this 60% of people to get into something that could fly at the end of day. Ummm...hell no.

Now apply the same logic to gun laws.

Your science teacher's logic is flawed. If 60% of drivers cannot be trusted in cars, and yet are still permitted to drive then it is highly probable that society will trust them equally with a flying vehicle.

More correctly, your teachers argument against flying cars is actually an equally valid argument that no-one should be allowed drive cars today at all.

Somehow, I cant see that one selling, so why would it apply to guns as well? Its not like cars arent lethal weapons when in the hands of an idiot.

Even with a basic automatic pistol, in theory you could kill 15 people in less than 30 seconds

Ignoring the clip-size, I'll accept that point. An expert shot with a pistol could porbably loose off 15 successful headshots in 30 seconds if his targets were all standing neatly in position, and remained there after the first shots were fired.

On the other hand, I would hazard that a semi-competent driver can kill 15 people in 30 seconds if they all stood neatly in position as well.

So - reversing the cars/guns logic again....if you want guns banned for their deadliness in the hands of an expert, surely cars should equally be banned because of their deadliness in the hands of anyone with a modicum of skill.

jc

Lemming

Originally posted by bonkey
Somehow, I cant see that one selling, so why would it apply to guns as well? Its not like cars arent lethal weapons when in the hands of an idiot

Cars are designed to get from point A to point B.
Guns are designed to kill, or at the least, maim.

The simple fact that ANY idiot with a handgun is exceptionally dangerous. All you have to do is point, pull the trigger, and what you see is what you get.

Cars are not designed to kill. They can, due to their mass, and speed. If we're gonna ban cars, then ban golf-balls, trains, planes, jetskis, and whatever else springs to mind that travels fast.

My point is this quite simply. Guns are designed to do one thing, and one thing alone. Kill. That's why you can never draw a distinction between a car and a gun.

My apologies for the disorganised structure of that rant

paddymee

My point is this quite simply. Guns are designed to do one thing, and one thing alone. Kill. That's why you can never draw a distinction between a car and a gun.

A gun is designed to kill. So what?

It's the use of an object by a human that makes the act evil. Is shooting a person more evil than clubing him to death with a crow bar. Or running him over in a car on purpose.

And I bet more people die in car accidents than by a gun.

Guns are used in hunting animals. Guns are used for target shooting. Guns are used for clay pigeons ( or skeet). Guns are used for personal protection. Guns will be used in the Olympic sport of Biathlon. And some people keep guns because they feel it gives them protection from an overbearing government.

In short, imo, if you want to bear arms, join the fu<kin army!!!

And that attitude is what polarises so many people. You want to force your cultural attitudes on a group that don't share your views.

Yes guns can kill, but it's the person pulling the trigger that is the killer. Make sure that the person with the gun is a stable, up right citizen. It can be done in other countries, so I'm sure it can be done in the US.

DeVore

Guns dont kill people.
People kill people.

Oh, no hang on its those darned little bullet things that kill people... I mean, they go so gosh-darned fast. You could take someones eye out with one of them!

I lived in the US for a while. I wanted to own a gun... to keep me safe from all the people who owned guns.

DeV.

Lemming

Originally posted by paddymee
It's the use of an object by a human that makes the act evil. Is shooting a person more evil than clubing him to death with a crow bar. Or running him over in a car on purpose.

It's far easier to just pull a trigger, than it is to club someone to death with a crow-bar, psychologically speaking. YOu don't have to listen to them scream and moan, and beg for mercy as you look them in the eye and beat them to death. You just point, pull the trigger and stick a round between their eyes (or something to that effect).

And I bet more people die in car accidents than by a gun.

How many of those car deaths were deliberate? As I said .. car's aren't designed to kill .. guns are, so your arguement doesn't hold.

Guns are used in hunting animals.

And your point being?? That we don't kill animals? That we merely hunt them down and shoot them?. As I said before .. guns kill. ANy way you cut it .. guns kill. Simple fact.

And some people keep guns because they feel it gives them protection from an overbearing government.

This I must truly laugh at. If your government is overbearing .. how far do you think that you're gonna get with that trusty sidearm? If your government wants you dead ... you are f*cked with a capital 'F'. No amount of personal firearms is gonna save you.

Yes guns can kill, but it's the person pulling the trigger that is the killer.

Yawn ... typical NRA statement. As I said above .. it's far easier psychologically to just shoot someone, than to stick a knife into them or club them to death.

Answer this .. what tool is it, in the hands of said person, that makes them a killer?? Is it that can of pepsi? or that miniature hand-held anti-tank weapon in their other hand??

Make sure that the person with the gun is a stable, up right citizen.

And how do you propose to ensure that? Stable, up-right citizens have snapped again and agian in the US, with tragic results for their co-workers, fellow students, etc.etc. And what's worse is that this trend seems to be growing.

I think that DeV said it best though ...

I lived in the US for a while. I wanted to own a gun... to keep me safe from all the people who owned guns.

paddymee

It's far easier to just pull a trigger, than it is to club someone to death with a crow-bar, psychologically speaking. YOu don't have to listen to them scream and moan, and beg for mercy as you look them in the eye and beat them to death. You just point, pull the trigger and stick a round between their eyes (or something to that effect).

Not sure I agree there. If you are going to kill you are going to kill. The tool is beside the point. The looneys that shoot places up do have to listen to their co-workers (for example) scream and beg, I'm sure. One blow to the head from behind with a crowbar can be silent. There didn't appear to be much noise when the Chinese bloke was clubbed to death in Dublin last week.

How many of those car deaths were deliberate? As I said .. car's aren't designed to kill .. guns are, so your arguement doesn't hold.

Sorry, I meant gun accidents versus car accidents. I typed in haste.

And your point being?? That we don't kill animals? That we merely hunt them down and shoot them?. As I said before .. guns kill. ANy way you cut it .. guns kill. Simple fact.

Snares kill. Knives kill. Water kills. Fire kills. Posion kills. Simple fact. Ban them too?

This I must truly laugh at. If your government is overbearing .. how far do you think that you're gonna get with that trusty sidearm? If your government wants you dead ... you are f*cked with a capital 'F'. No amount of personal firearms is gonna save you.

I don't think I agree with you here. Armed revolution against an opressive government has worked in history. Armed revolution worked against the British at home and in the US. The US simply put in into their constitution that "Malitias" have the right to bear arms. This was to defend against oppressive governments. As far as I understand anyway.

Yawn ... typical NRA statement. As I said above .. it's far easier psychologically to just shoot someone, than to stick a knife into them or club them to death.

Yawn? I'm sorry I bore you. I again disagree with you. If you are prepare to kill, you will kill. You might even use the edge of a can of Pepsi to cut them up. Or whatever you were on about.

I'll try to brief for fear of having you nod off. A lot of these high visablily killings that you mentioned were in committed by people who shouldn't have had guns. Kids and nut cases. Find out what is different between the US and Switzerland concerning guns and you may get a clue. I can't help you there.

My witty conclusion:
I live in the US now. I don't feel like getting a gun for my protection 'cause I don't think I need one.

I might buy a rifle for hunting and/or target practice though.