Luas line to Lucan

spacetweek

dr zoidberg wrote:

Does anyone have a map of this planned development for Lucan north of the Liffey?

Try here

It's very modest. It's totally the wrong size - too small to be of any use providing numbers for the new DART station to the north, but still big enough to worsen already terrible traffic in Lucan village! This development was very controversial when it was under construction.

dr zoidberg wrote:

surely any development there would be Leixlip east rather than Lucan

Good point. Leixlip north Arrow station (Confey) has loads of vacant land all around it. I can't understand why they aren't aiming to develop Leixlip further north, they could easily stay within the station catchment.


Remember that Lucan Luas is about way more than Lucan. As well as being for parts of the town inaccessible to buses and unsuitable for QBCs (e.g. Esker and the village), it's also aimed at south Palmerstown and Ballyfermot as well as providing a southside counterpart to the Red Line along the northern quays, completing the quays loop.

Victor

spacetweek wrote:

Leixlip north Arrow station (Confey) has loads of vacant land all around it. I can't understand why they aren't aiming to develop Leixlip further north, they could easily stay within the station catchment.

Double edged sword. the railway line forms the northern boundary of the town, breaching it risks expanding the town ad infinitum. That said, a small dense pocket of mixed development could be put in place.

dr zoidberg

Yeah the way the town has developed it almost looks well planned. Then you look at the lack of facilities and realise that it wasn't.

My problem is that, according to Kildare Co. Co. the town is supposed to expand to a population of 25000 in the next ten years (pop. was 15000 in 2002) but the Confey side has expanded to its limits along the railway line (and that land you can see on the west of the map link is a public park), the west side (Gleneaston) has also developed to its limit because land past the Celbridge Interchange is zoned for industrial and retail development, so there seems to be little choice if the town is to expand other than crossing the Dublin border. The natural place for housing development would be past the canal on the north and north east sides of the town.

Anyway back on topic, the Luas is badly needed for Lucan. My comment about P&R facilities was however a general comment rather than specifically for the Lucan North station - there is a serious lack of them. Although it would make much more sense for a bus to and from the station along the planned road.

It is walkable from the development to the proposed station - but I can tell you, I have walked along the St Catherine's Park paths on the left, and it takes much longer to walk than it looks on the map.

markpb

murphaph wrote:

If and when this opens, traffic from Lucan-D15 could be forced to use it and serius bus priority measures introduced on north-south routes through Lucan (including making the old main street bus only).

Assuming T21 goes ahead and is actually completed, does anyone actually believe that feeder buses and "serious bus priority measures" will actually happen?

Perhaps I'm cynical but DB call the 103/104 Dart feeder buses and any bus priority measures have either been half-assed (most of the QBCs) or dysfunctional (bus priority lane at the junction of Malahide Road/Collins Avenue).

BrianD

ApeXaviour wrote:

Riiight... and how would that help Lucan exactly? These two new stations north and south (they're upgrading the existing luas lines as it is, if you'd paid attention) are not as needed as much as an easier commute from Lucan. With a population of 40,000 set to double in the next 10 years, think about it.. :rolleyes:

It's a complete joke..

eh? How would a heavy rail station north and south of the town help? How do you think!!!! A lot better than a little tram that will take at least 60 min to get into town. Local buses can provide transport to either station. This is how it works elsewhere in the world.

There are no Luas lines to Lucan and there is no upgrades on the existing Luas lines other than proposed extensions and the lengthening of trams on the Red line from 30 to 40m so I'm not sure what upgrade you refer to.

Trams are not the solution to Lucan's transport issues. A commuter rail station is.

dowlingm

Victor - re Leixlip

I would contend the railway should form the central backbone of a town rather than being on the outskirts - a "from scratch" district plan creating a new town centre with the northern new town designed for bus transit from the rail stations as hubs, cycle lanes and pedestrians from day one. All new development south of the line should be curtailed to redevelopment of brownfield sites.

Instead an orbital road (here linking to the M4 as the southern boundary) should be the de facto cut off point. It sounds like Leixlip's rail line is like the current DART - only one side has much of a catchment (although it's probably better than open sea). Looking at Google Earth with the "Dublin Transport" overlay it looks like Louisa Bridge at least has development on both sides but Confey is decidedly lopsided in its catchment.

spacetweek

Victor wrote:

Double edged sword. the railway line forms the northern boundary of the town, breaching it risks expanding the town ad infinitum. That said, a small dense pocket of mixed development could be put in place.

It wouldn't be ad infinitum. That's what planning control is for.

BrianD

dowlingm wrote:

Victor - re Leixlip

I would contend the railway should form the central backbone of a town rather than being on the outskirts - a "from scratch" district plan creating a new town centre with the northern new town designed for bus transit from the rail stations as hubs, cycle lanes and pedestrians from day one. All new development south of the line should be curtailed to redevelopment of brownfield sites.

Instead an orbital road (here linking to the M4 as the southern boundary) should be the de facto cut off point. It sounds like Leixlip's rail line is like the current DART - only one side has much of a catchment (although it's probably better than open sea). Looking at Google Earth with the "Dublin Transport" overlay it looks like Louisa Bridge at least has development on both sides but Confey is decidedly lopsided in its catchment.

Blame the planning (and corruption for that). The railway has been there for a century or more (a guess). It's not unusual for a railway station to be on the outskirts of a town and local buses can sort that issue out.

dowlingm

BrianD

I agree it's not unusual but it's hardly optimal either...

Sarsfield

BrianD wrote:

Blame the planning (and corruption for that). The railway has been there for a century or more (a guess). It's not unusual for a railway station to be on the outskirts of a town and local buses can sort that issue out.

I don't know if it's true but the reason for train stations being on the outskirts of towns was explained to me once. Basically when there was trouble in any of the towns, the authorities (British) could send the troops in by train to quell disturbances. They could assemble outside the town before entering. Don't know if this is true or complete bull.

silverside

Sarsfield wrote:

I don't know if it's true but the reason for train stations being on the outskirts of towns was explained to me once. Basically when there was trouble in any of the towns, the authorities (British) could send the troops in by train to quell disturbances. They could assemble outside the town before entering. Don't know if this is true or complete bull.

sounds like complete pub talk to me Sarsfield