Men and their.. insatiable lust

sturgo

Vangelis wrote:

So I read this book by a couple of scientists. They say that men always want sex for the sake of ensuring the next generation. Or sometimes plain self-satisfaction. And they can have sex with ANYBODY just because it is a biological urge. Why do I know men who are not like this then? Idiotic "scientists" say it's true with this arguement: "Because we say so!" BLAH! *makes vomit noise*

Should girls feel that they are used or should they "bear with" them and understand that they have an insatiable sexual appetite?

I hope my irritation isn't too strong for the mods.

Everything you read in that book is 100% accurite.

Zombrex

dublindude wrote:

LOL. Men don't cheat, American women do...?????

Right... :rolleyes:

Some American men cheat, but American women are more likely to cheat on their partners than American men are. I think the statistic holds for British men and women. This statistic didn't hold 15 years ago, so it shows a major increase of women cheating on their partners. Some have blamed the rise of this "ladette" culture ya read about in the Daily Mail.

Interestingly American men are more likely to cheat on their wives than American women are to cheat on their husbands (don't know about British men)

So I guess women are more faithful with in the realm of marriage vows, where as men who are going to cheat don't let something like a promise infront of God stop them ... bastards!

Tar.Aldarion

dublindude wrote:

However... most guys cheat at some stage...

Bollocks.
Most scum do maybe....
If I was in a relationship where the thought even crossed my mind...we would either sort it out or break up.Cheating is ****ing despicable.

Vangelis

The book has given me better understanding of how men think, but all the "facts" that it comes with seems to justify promiscuity(sp?). So because men have a high sexual appetite, does that mean that sleeping about is justifiable? Why can't these men channel their lusts onto one woman?

I'm glad I'm not the only one reacting to dublindude's attitude. Having said that I don't mean to start a personal flaming.

sturgo, if that book is 100% accurate, then I am a lesbian. Read my lips: I am not a lesbian! I'm getting married to the most wonderful and faithful man ever - very soon! And if you as much as claim that that book has any authority over my self-consciousness..........................

Wicknight is right, but women don't normally cheat because they no longer really love their men(from what I have heard other women say!), although that can be a reason too. It is silly anyway, but many women who do it regret and realise how much they love their boyfriends/husbands. And they quit. It functions as a sort of a wake-up call. Fortunately, there are many exceptions! Many real women!

Neuro

Vangelis wrote:

The book has given me better understanding...

Could you post the name and author of the book? Cheers.

Vangelis

I have allready posted it. It's Allan and Barbara Pease(they're a married couple).

AARRRGH

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Bollocks.
Most scum do maybe....
If I was in a relationship where the thought even crossed my mind...we would either sort it out or break up.Cheating is ****ing despicable.

I think you'll find that guys who find themselves in situations where they could cheat, do cheat. If you've ever been drunk and a beautiful girl is coming onto you, I doubt you'd push her away.

Have you ever been in a situation like the above?

Also, from your profile I can see you've just turned 19. I am 100% sure your opinion regarding cheating will change when you're a little older and more experienced. I was like you when I was 19, but as people know, when you're 19 you have a very rosy outlook of the world.

I assure you you will have cheated on a girlfriend by the time you're 30. Nearly all guys have... (the non-nerdy ones at least i.e. the ones who get opportunities to cheat!!)

chump

dublindude wrote:

I think you'll find that guys who find themselves in situations where they could cheat, do cheat. If you've ever been drunk and a beautiful girl is coming onto you, I doubt you'd push her away.

[1] Have you ever been in a situation like the above?

Also, from your profile I can see you've just [2] turned 19. I am 100% sure your opinion regarding cheating will change when you're a little older and more experienced. I was like you when I was 19, but as people know, when you're 19 you have a very rosy outlook of the world.

I assure you you will have cheated on a girlfriend by the time you're 30. Nearly all guys have... (the [3] non-nerdy ones at least i.e. the ones who get opportunities to cheat!!)

Jaysus dublindude, come across you in PI and now here...
Do you think you're a "real" man and that you speak for all "real" men when you write this shtuff?
It's a lot of bullsheet.

Back to your prize comment:
I think you'll find that guys who find themselves in situations where they could cheat, do cheat.

If this were the case any bloke who has a girlfriend when he goes out on a night without his gf, would cheat...
Because it's fairly simple.
If you and your pals are such diks that if any decent looking girl gives you the come-on and you drop any respect for your gf and cheat yas are a sad bunch...

You seem to try back up your sentiments by
1. insinuating Tar.Aldarion has never been come on to by a hot lady
2. suggesting your older years gives you greater insight into a REAL MANS mind
3. suggesting real men (non-nerdy guys) cheat

I suggest that you're talking sh!te...
Yea blokes cheat, girls do too.
A lot of people who cheat regret it seriously and wish to take it back.
People grow and learn, I don't necessarily think once a chater always a cheater
Most people in a good relationship, while still enjoying the sights and sounds of the other sex, are quite happy to pass up any offers. Do onto others and all that ...

You try and make it sound acceptable, almost a symbol of being a real lad, to cheat. This is BS.

Vangelis

dublindude doesn't understand that there are men who would not cheat on their girlfriends and look for one thing everytime they are out on their own.
He doesn't understand it because he thinks all other men think like him. He is narrow-minded, bigoted and so full of himself that it makes at least me sick.
It's bad genes, I guess. And saying that other men who don't behave like he thinks, lie to themselves. That is as arrogant as it possibly can be!

AARRRGH

chump wrote:

You try and make it sound acceptable, almost a symbol of being a real lad, to cheat. This is BS.

No, you're totally minunderstanding what I'm saying, and trying to twist it into something stupid like I'm a "lad" who just wants to get girls drunk and **** them.

I'm saying sex is our main motivator. It has a lot of subtle control over us (for example, why do women love shopping, why do men want power, etc etc.)

We may think cheating is morally wrong (and of course I agree with this) but it is not natural to not cheat. We have to make ourselves not cheat. We have to choose, "No, this would be wrong if I did this."

But at times of weakness (drunk, upset with partner etc.) people cheat. It will happen to you.

Regarding men and sex: yes, men think about sex all the time and want it with as many girls as possible. Again, this is natural. You may fight it, but it is your animal instinct. Just watch what male animals do all the time - trying to **** females. We are simply male animals who have a society and guilt complex which tells us this is wrong. We are forced to fight our natural, instinctual, lust for sex.

People who think I am sick because I believe the above are not living in the real world.

Vangelis I still believe you have serious issues with men and sex.

Vangelis

dublindude wrote:

It will happen to you.

Stop claiming this is the truth about every man in every relationship!!

dublindude wrote:

vangelis i still think you have issues with sex

You're saying that only to provoke me and make me angry. Well, you're quite an ellaborate manipulator. Your arrogance certainly provokes me and makes me angry.

Pigman II

I agree with Dublindude here. If there was opportunity and no moral or social obligations affecting the decision most men would choose have multiple partners. It's basic animal nature. If societys norm was for men to go after as many women as possible I guarentee you there'd be very few men still looking for 1on1 relationships.

AARRRGH

Vangelis wrote:

Stop claiming this is the truth about every man in every relationship!!

You are really kidding yourself if you think men die without having cheated at least once (and for the record, I know women cheat a lot too, but we are talking about men, not women, in this topic.)

It's clear you are innocent enough and want to look at the world as a nice, happy, caring place. But that's just not reality! The world is cut throat. People are selfish. People are greedy. It's just that some hide it better than others. Some are ashamed to admit what they do. Some people spend their lives lying to themself.

My friends often confide in me (for unknown reasons) and I know ALL have cheated (male + female.) But if you asked them, or met them today, they'd say they never cheated and think it is wrong. It is a case of saying one thing and doing another. That's humans...!

Anyway, the point of this topic wasn't about cheating. It is whether or not men are ruled by sex. I agree. It's obviously correct.

Vangelis

dublindude wrote:

You are really kidding yourself if you think men die without having cheated at least once (and for the record, I know women cheat a lot too, but we are talking about men, not women, in this topic.)

I do not believe the whole world is happy an innocent. I just know that my man would not cheat on me. You wouldn't understand that, but I know him and I know our relationship.

dublindude wrote:

It's clear you are innocent enough and want to look at the world as a nice, happy, caring place. But that's just not reality! The world is cut throat. People are selfish. People are greedy. It's just that some hide it better than others. Some are ashamed to admit what they do. Some people spend their lives lying to themself.

Not that it matters, but are you greedy and selfish? Obviously the answer is yes.

dublindude wrote:

My friends often confide in me (for unknown reasons) and I know ALL have cheated (male + female.) But if you asked them, or met them today, they'd say they never cheated and think it is wrong. It is a case of saying one thing and doing another. That's humans...!

Anyway, the point of this topic wasn't about cheating. It is whether or not men are ruled by sex. I agree. It's obviously correct.

I can understand if they cheat on their partner if being insecure, unhappy in the relationship, having been too far away from their partner for too long, having changed and found out that they want something else, or having general relationship problems. But that is not the answer to solving a relationship-problem.

Do those who have confided in you regret what they did? Have they taken wisdom from it?

Son Goku

Vangelis wrote:

I have NO LINK. But the book is called "Why men don't listen and women can't read maps", by Allan and Barbara Pease. And the cream of it all is that I can actually read maps!! I love maps! So according to statistics in this book, I am more """""likely""""" to be a lesbian. BLAH! I am as heterosexual as a mellow banana is yellow!!!!!!

I don't know if what that book is saying is true, but all it states is that you have a greater chance of being a lesbian, not that you are a lesbian.

dublindude wrote:

You are really kidding yourself if you think men die without having cheated at least once (and for the record, I know women cheat a lot too, but we are talking about men, not women, in this topic.)

For the most part I'd agree with what you're saying, I'd just make the addendum that it's difficult to say what amount of men actually cheat on their partners.

A lot of guys want to have sex with women who aren't their girlfriends in a very passive, "I'd do her" sort of a way, but would never actually cheat.

(However I'd make no guess as to what proportion of men are like this).

AARRRGH

Vangelis wrote:

I do not believe the whole world is happy an innocent. I just know that my man would not cheat on me. You wouldn't understand that, but I know him and I know our relationship.

You say you met him by "Letter Correspondance". Does that mean he lives in a different country (or prison/somewhere you can't be with him)? Would that explain your deep insecurity on this issue?

Vangelis wrote:

Not that it matters, but are you greedy and selfish? Obviously the answer is yes.

I'm selfish and greedy because I disagree with you? GROW UP! You don't know me. I am not a bad person. I am as selfish and greedy as my fellow humans, including you.

Vangelis wrote:

I can understand if they cheat on their partner if being insecure, unhappy in the relationship, having been too far away from their partner for too long, having changed and found out that they want something else, or having general relationship problems. But that is not the answer to solving a relationship-problem.

Yes, but it is reality. Humans aren't computers. Our emotions have more power over us than our morals/intellect.

So you understand if people cheat because they are having "general relationship problems". Doesn't every relationship have problems every now and then? So you understand cheating during those periods, right? If so, what they hell is your anti-cheating point? You've just agreed with me. People cheat when they are having general relationship problems. You said it, not me. Time to get off your high horse!

Vangelis wrote:

Do those who have confided in you regret what they did? Have they taken wisdom from it?

Depends. If they break up soon after, they don't care. But if they stay together, some regret it, some don't. It's not a simple black and white issue.

Sarky

I've always preferred thinking with my brain, actually. It's a much better way of doing things. Thinking with anything else tends to result in sloppy judgements.

Yeah, I think about sex pretty often. Why not? Sex is rather nice, and there are worse things to have on your mind. But I just don't buy into this attitude of "Oh, but it's instinct! Sex is our main motivator! If we can get away with it, we'll do it!" and suchlike. I find it as much a generalisation as saying all men love football, drink only pints, or are better drivers than women.

So far I've not cheated on anyone I've had a relationship with. I'm pretty confident I can make it to the grave without doing so, either. During my "coupled" time, I've told whatever few women might have approached me that I wasn't interested, whether the significant other was there or not.

Fine, it's probably not natural. But neither is sex in multiple positions. Or contraception. Or oral sex. Or, for that matter, hooking metal nipple clamps to a car battery. I could make a much bigger list. How many of those do you condemn or condone?

chump

dublindude wrote:

I think you'll find that guys who find themselves in situations where they could cheat, do cheat. If you've ever been drunk and a beautiful girl is coming onto you, I doubt you'd push her away.

Have you ever been in a situation like the above?

...

I assure you you will have cheated on a girlfriend by the time you're 30. Nearly all guys have... (the non-nerdy ones at least i.e. the ones who get opportunities to cheat!!)

You're changing the goal posts dublindude.
I wouldn't disagree for a minute...
that people do cheat.
that men, in their base form, would like to fuk anything. But man is more than animal, we aren't talking hypothetical.
that a sizeable proportion of people will at some stage in their life cheat on one of their partners

The last matter is the point of debate here. What you're suggesting, quoted above, is that men cheat given the opportunity.
You also made an effort to get your point across by trying to infer superiority of wisdom (due to age, non nerdyness, whatever insight you think you possess).

I'm saying that men cheat, when they err (I sound like a dik I know).
Most of the time, even under the influence men don't become such animals that they cheat on their partner.
But people have numerous partners in life, the odds are they will have made the mistake of cheating in one of them...

If I was to take a sample pool of people I know in relationships...
A lot would have cheated in a past relationship... usually is a good indicator things are close to failure. But those in healthy happy relationships don't cheat, for the most part.

So I think what you're trying to say is: men cheat regularly when given opportunity
And what I'm saying is: Most men in a (happy) relationship will not cheat
& what's the point of being in a relationship if you aren't happy with it?

???

Oh and your comment:
But at times of weakness (drunk, upset with partner etc.) people cheat. It will happen to you.
is just ridiculous. Who in the name of Moses do you think you are? You're so wise to the world that you can tell that I, some randomer on the net, am going to cheat? Can you tell me the time and place?
Not everyone is like you, I may well cheat and have cheated, but who are you to tell anyone that they will cheat?

AARRRGH

Chump: you're 23. Let's have this conversation when you're my age.

Disclaimer: when I say "all men cheat" I mean "most men". Of course, I am aware there are some strange men who do not cheat, people in prison, mental homes, etc. But most men = at least 75%.

Tar.Aldarion

dublindude wrote:

I think you'll find that guys who find themselves in situations where they could cheat, do cheat. If you've ever been drunk and a beautiful girl is coming onto you, I doubt you'd push her away.

Have you ever been in a situation like the above?

em of course...it's like asking if somebody has ever been drunk in a club,that beautiful girl is usually the gf but if not,even when drunk I'm able to push people away.

Also, from your profile I can see you've just turned 19. I am 100% sure your opinion regarding cheating will change when you're a little older and more experienced. I was like you when I was 19, but as people know, when you're 19 you have a very rosy outlook of the world.

I do not have a rosy outlook at the world believe you me....At nineteen, I hope that all my tough lessons have been learned but I know they have not...
Learned my hrdest one last week,damn girls..
anyway,I know people who have not cheated that are much older than me...It's an exception,not a rule.

I assure you you will have cheated on a girlfriend by the time you're 30. Nearly all guys have... (the non-nerdy ones at least i.e. the ones who get opportunities to cheat!!)

I'm sure even the nerdies get teh lovin(if they go out...for god sake,go out people!!)
Anyway,eleven years...I'll see you then !

Zombrex

dublindude wrote:

If you've ever been drunk and a beautiful girl is coming onto you, I doubt you'd push her away.

Have you ever been in a situation like the above?

I have, twice on different occasions, and I didn't cheat. And I'm 26

No offense dublindube, and forgive me if I am totally out of line, but have you? Cause it sounds like you have and are now trying to justify it as "well everyone does it"

The line that it is just human nature is bullsh*t TBH. Its human nature to steal, to use violence, to piss in the street, but if you see a man (or woman) doing any of these things you would be shock/annoyed/look down. So whats different with the argument "Sure it is human nature to cheat". If some wants a life with lots of sex with different people, don't get into a relationship with any of them. You are completely ignoring the fact that it is also human nature to get into a relationship with someone. So you can't have it both ways

Sex is important for most people. Men or women. The majority of people out there that have tried it at any stage in tehir lives, will want more. Thats perfectly natural. To say that men want it more than women though is a bit off base. Society has told people for centuries that men are randy little goats, and that women are demure. Men sleep around and women stay faithful looking after the kids. Thats what society has tried to condition us into believing and for the most part it has succeeded in the past.

Look at movies, books, tv etc. For the most part, a movie will show the cause of breakup of marriage to be a mans fault in that he fell in love with someone else, or he cheated, or he lied etc. Very rarely in the past it would be the woman shown in this light. Its only really in the last 20 years that we're seeing women being protrayed as humans, and just as likely to have affairs, two-time their boyfriends etc.

For myself, if I'm in a relationship I'm faithful to my partner. Period. Doesn't matter, whether I'm approached by a more beautiful woman or not, I'm in a relationship that requires both parties to be faithful and not have encounters with out people. Thats fine.

However, on the same note, I have had liasions with a number of women at the same time. These women knew from the start that I wasn't dating them. I wasn't a boyfriend. I was someone they could relax, have fun, and have sex with. The moment I saw them getting possessive, or jealous I was gone. Simple as that.

The important thing here is what decisions, or rather whats accepted at face value when you enter a relationship. Are you in a committed relationship where you do not **** other people, or are you both free to do what you please?

Cheating on your partner is wrong. Cheating on yourself is just as wrong. There are plenty of women out there willing to have shallow relationships, where there is no real commitment. They want sex, they want fun, they just don't want someone to get possessive over them. That can happen later when they feel the time is right, if ever.

The issue here is that we accept what society tells us too easily. Society has told us that we cannot have a relationship with someone else without commitment, trust etc. Crap. Sure you can. You just can't be sure they'll stay with you too long. But then I don't want to gain ownership over someone or they on me.

As for insatiable lust? Nah. I like beautiful women. I like having sex with beautiful women. I like talking to beautiful women. I'd probably prefer to be having sex to just about anything else I'm doing. But most of the time, I'm working, or playing games, surfing the internet, flirting in a bar etc. I'm not having sex, and I'm not worrying about it. Sex isn't everything. I think the researchers of this book, may have been missing sex just a little too much, and assumed everyone else was aswell. :rolleyes:

AARRRGH

Wicknight wrote:

The line that it is just human nature is bullsh*t TBH. Its human nature to steal, to use violence, to piss in the street, but if you see a man (or woman) doing any of these things you would be shock/annoyed/look down. So whats different with the argument "Sure it is human nature to cheat". If some wants a life with lots of sex with different people, don't get into a relationship with any of them. You are completely ignoring the fact that it is also human nature to get into a relationship with someone. So you can't have it both ways

But it is human nature, and just like you say: sex (multiple partners), violence, survival (stealing), etc. They may not always be good things, but they are natural and we would be doing them all the time if we did not have our strict society. Just look at poor areas. Lots of crime and... babies. If you ever read any books about poor people/criminal types they ALWAYS have mistresses etc. This is not because they are *****, but because they don't give a **** about the society rules you and I follow.

Yes we want relationships, but monogamy (sp??) is not "natural". We have to make ourselves do it. Of course, when you've been with a lovely girl for a few months/years you may think you'll never be with someone else, but things change with time. People get bored. Feelings die. The sex stops. etc etc etc!

To the people who disagree with my sex/cheating philosophy: when your wife has a child and decides she does not want to have sex with you anymore, or when your partner becomes unattractive to you because they've "let themself go", or when the spark (sexual) has died between you for unknown reasons, are you simply going to accept no more sex (or maybe, once a month) for the rest of your life? If you've spoken to your partner and he/she simply doesn't want to have frequent sex anymore, what will you do? Accept it? Or get frustrated and eventually get a wandering eye?

fly_agaric

Deleted User wrote:

Society has told people for centuries that men are randy little goats, and that women are demure. Men sleep around and women stay faithful looking after the kids. Thats what society has tried to condition us into believing and for the most part it has succeeded in the past.

In fairness there has been a bit more to it than "society". Human females (aka women) end up with the "bun in the oven" which they can't palm off on someone else (not for 9 months anyway) - giving the feckless males their chance to escape.

Disclaimer: when I say "all men cheat" I mean "most men". Of course, I am aware there are some strange men who do not cheat, people in prison, mental homes, etc. But most men = at least 75%.

Based on what? You've met maybe 2000 people personally, of which you may know the personal histories of 200? Are you saying that all the men in the world, are also included in your estimate? The fact is, you don't know for certain. Sure you could be right. I could be in that 25% bracket. Then again it could be 75% of men that don't actually cheat.

In fairness there has been a bit more to it than "society". Human females (aka women) end up with the "bun in the oven" which they can't palm off on someone else (not for 9 months anyway) - giving the feckless males their chance to escape.

Fairness? More nonesense. When are people going to take responsibility for their own actions?

Your sentence exempts the women from any responsibility for having sex with the man. She bears no responsibility for her actions, or rather her lack of action in taking protection, nor even being more careful.

Sex involves two people (or more). Every participant bears responsibility should pregnancy occur. Even if the girl gets pregnant, after the telling the guy she's on the pill, he's responsible for not wearing a condom. And the woman is equally responsible. In fact she has more knowledge of when she's more likely to be fertile for pregnancy. She knows her periods, and she knows what will happen should pregancy occur.

This is the type of bull****, that labels all men as being lecherous, and all women being victims. People need to stop saying that women are taken advantage of, or that the fault lies with the man. Its sexist, unrealistic, unfair, and downright stupid.:mad:

Zombrex

dublindude wrote:

But it is human nature, and just like you say: sex (multiple partners), violence, survival (stealing), etc. They may not always be good things, but they are natural and we would be doing them all the time if we did not have our strict society.

And thats is why we aren't still living in caves and hunting and gathering :rolleyes:

To pretend that we are still basic animals DublinDude is ridiculous, what are you doing right now? You are reading something on a COMPUTER ffs. We long long ago abandoned the state of living from day to day following only our instincts.

But when it suits us, when we don't want to take responsibility for our actions, when we want to simply give into more primal instincts, we need an excuse, such as "Sure we are just animals at heart" Why do we need this? Because of a very human instinct, guilt.

If it is perfectly natural to have lots of sexual partners, why do we form partnerships based on the idea that we won't. And if that is unnatural why do we develop relationships, and then when cheat on our partners do we feel guilty?

You are ignoring the aspect of guilt completely DublinDude. Guilt is one of the fundamental emotions that humans follow. Is if you are all about following instincts, how do you feel about guilt?

dublindude wrote:

This is not because they are *****, but because they don't give a **** about the society rules you and I follow.

This is because they are psychotic :rolleyes::rolleyes: They feel no guilt for the actions they do.

It has nothing to do with "society rules", it is to do with not caring about people, or caring how they are treated. So committing a crime against someone doesn't matter cause you don't care about how they feel. You feel no guilt. And cheating on someone, thats ok too, cause you don't actually care if your partner is hurt by this.

Sorry, dublindude but if that is what is "natural" I am glad humans have not been following their intincts for thousands of years.

dublindude wrote:

Yes we want relationships, but monogamy (sp??) is not "natural". We have to make ourselves do it. Of course, when you've been with a lovely girl for a few months/years you may think you'll never be with someone else, but things change with time. People get bored. Feelings die. The sex stops. etc etc etc!

I have no problem with people who are unable to commit to long term relationships, so long as they don't abuse the trust of someone else. It is perfectly possible to either have no relationships, just sexual encounters, or to have an open relationship if you find someone on the same wavelength. But the idea of cheating on someone, abusing someones trust, that is different, and hiding behind the idea that you must do it because you are basically an animal, is rather pathetic in my view.

dublindude wrote:

If you've spoken to your partner and he/she simply doesn't want to have frequent sex anymore, what will you do?

Leave them or put up with it

It is purely cowardness that makes some cheat instead of leaving the person or even dealing with the real issues they have. It is weakness of spirit and conviction, and fundamentally selfishness and lack of respect.

And before you go "How would you know", I mentioned 2 times I have been seriously tempted. Neither time did I cheat, but the first time I broke up with my girlfriend the next day, out of the blue (from her point of view) because I was having strong feelings for someone else, and it wasn't fair on my girlfriend. And it was horrible, she hated me, I feel crap and things never developed with the second girl. But I can hold my head high and say that I did not abuse her trust.

Like I said, cheating is a cowards way out. And I don't accept any of the bullsh*t it would kill her if I left her, or it would kill the kids if I left. Again, excuses to stop feeling guilty, the idea that you aren't doing it for you you are doing it for them

fly_agaric

Deleted User wrote:

Fairness? More nonesense. When are people going to take responsibility for their own actions?

Your sentence exempts the women from any responsibility for having sex with the man. She bears no responsibility for her actions, or rather her lack of action in taking protection, nor even being more careful. Sex involves two people (or more). Every participant bears responsibility should pregnancy occur. Even if the girl gets pregnant, after the telling the guy she's on the pill, he's responsible for not wearing a condom. And the woman is equally responsible. In fact she has more knowledge of when she's more likely to be fertile for pregnancy. She knows her periods, and she knows what will happen should pregancy occur.

This is the type of bull****, that labels all men as being lecherous, and all women being victims. People need to stop saying that women are taken advantage of, or that the fault lies with the man. Its sexist, unrealistic, unfair, and downright stupid.:mad:

Yawn...No need to be angry.
Up to recently there were no pills or condoms so women did actually have much less control of the situation than they do now.

You said:
"Society has told people for centuries that men are randy little goats, and that women are demure. Men sleep around and women stay faithful looking after the kids. Thats what society has tried to condition us into believing and for the most part it has succeeded in the past."

My point was only that society here was taking a lead from our biology. That doesn't mean we have to let that biology or past stereotypes rule us though. We have big brains n'stuff.

chump

dublindude wrote:

Chump: you're 23. Let's have this conversation when you're my age.

Disclaimer: when I say "all men cheat" I mean "most men". Of course, I am aware there are some strange men who do not cheat, people in prison, mental homes, etc. But most men = at least 75%.

You're only 27 for gawd sake... but I'll look you up in 4 years just for the hell of it eh?

Anyway my point is you're talking rubbish. I don't even know what you're trying to say any more...
People here seem to agree that people do cheat
But you're suggesting it's OK to cheat? Because, despite it being wrong (morally?), because we're animals we have to follow this instinct?
I honestly don't know what your "sex/cheating philosophy" actually is...

But to try and work it out, if you could answer the following questions...
1. "I think you'll find that guys who find themselves in situations where they could cheat, do cheat. If you've ever been drunk and a beautiful girl is coming onto you, I doubt you'd push her away." Do you think that men in a "good" relationship will act this way?

2. "when your wife has a child and decides she does not want to have sex with you anymore, or when your partner becomes unattractive to you because they've "let themself go", or when the spark (sexual) has died between you for unknown reasons, are you simply going to accept no more sex (or maybe, once a month) for the rest of your life? If you've spoken to your partner and he/she simply doesn't want to have frequent sex anymore, what will you do? Accept it? Or get frustrated and eventually get a wandering eye?" Do you think that men in a "weakening" relationship will act this way?

My answer to question 1, would be NO.
My answer to question 2, would be POSSIBLY.

But as I've said already you've changed the goalposts...
You're philosophy has changed from everybody cheats to people cheat when relationships begin to deteriorate...
So you don't really have much of a philosophy.
What you're saying is, without working at relationships and keeping both partners happy, **** happens...

So basically what you're saying is ... relationships need to be worked on?

The Corinthian

What a idiotic attempt at a discussion.

Unless you're about to accept that Creationism is a valid scientific explication for the development of life on Earth, the tendency for males to favour frequent and polygamous sex is pretty much an open and shut case.

However, this does not imply that all men are like this. For example, some are biologically less interested in sex - a small percentage, often referred to as asexual, even have no interest at all. Others suppress such tendencies, for various social issues - typically related to either religion and / or monogamy.

Do all men have relatively high libidos? No. Do most? Yes. Does this mean that they'll cheat on their partners or otherwise act in a promiscuous manner? Depends. And with women you would have a different, but not dissimilar, situation.

Returning to the idiocy - dublindude is certainly on one of the extremes of this scale, but I'd have to say that Vangelis is very much on the other extreme (regardless of her gender). While every second post he may make is about having sex, every second post she seems to post is about not having sex. As for chump's contributions, less said about that the better. So really this entire discussion is pointless as it has devolved into little more than one side saying black and the other saying white.

Seriously, a little less of the whining moral indignation. If people feel dublindude is talking crap, point out that he's not backing up what he's saying or show him data that refutes his assertions. Screaming at him that he's selfish, or otherwise a sinner, just makes you look like the other side of the coin.

fly_agaric

fly_agaric wrote:

Yawn...No need to be angry.
Up to recently there were no pills or condoms so women did actually have much less control of the situation than they do now.

Not quite true. For centuries women have been able to able to know when they're most likely and least likely to get pregnant from sex. This is old knowledge, and most women know this already. Its just that they rely on the safer methods like contraception nowadays. Regardless, contraception has been available for sale for at least the last 15 years, and we're still seeing people place all the blame on men for pregnancies. Women know their own bodies better than we do, and thus bear the same responsibility that we do.

My point was only that society here was taking a lead from our biology. That doesn't mean we have to let that biology or past stereotypes rule us though. We have big brains n'stuff.

Agreed. But do people want that change? Honestly do you think people want to take responsibility?