Programming ability question

mastermind2005

Hi all,

Can anyone tell me what type of programmin would be required to create a program to communicate with another program over a cat5 network,

What i mean is i want a program made to be able to send a file from one computer directly to another pc's desktop over a simple network.

what sort of work would be involved in such a task ?

Karoma

Do you know any languages?
Java (It's relatively accessible, and a lot of the work is done for you ala API) and get a copy of O'reillys Java Networking: you can do it pretty quickly (If dirtily -it's a word!)

mastermind2005

I dont know any programming at all, i did a bit of visual basic in college but i dont remember any of it,

there a few other things i would like built into the program to complment the file sending program,

can anyone point me in the right direct to get this done as im a complete novice .

Regards

Plankmonkey

mastermind2005 wrote:

I dont know any programming at all, i did a bit of visual basic in college but i dont remember any of it,

there a few other things i would like built into the program to complment the file sending program,

can anyone point me in the right direct to get this done as im a complete novice .

Regards

Are you familiar with DOS commands? You could try writing a batch file. The commands can be found in the windows help (press F1 on your desktop)

mastermind2005

well i do know a few dos commands but thats as far as it goes, but the whole idea is that the program i want uses a nice friendly graphic user interface for not so computer clever users,

Plankmonkey

mastermind2005 wrote:

well i do know a few dos commands but thats as far as it goes, but the whole idea is that the program i want uses a nice friendly graphic user interface for not so computer clever users,

Windows can do what you're asking without the need to write a program. If you have the pc's networked together all you need is a shortcut to the other PC's desktop and they can just drag and drop the files into the shortcut.

NeverSayDie

Maybe look at something like FTP, Windows file shares or even Remote Desktop, before you set out to (re)write one of your own. There's probably something out there already that coud do it for you.

bonkey

Can't you just Windows Explorer?

Share out each users Desktop folder from their profile, giving each a name of something like 'Johns Desktop' (or the full name if there are a lot of users) and then put them into each user's Network Neighbourhood.

Then all they do is copy to another user's desktop by opening it in their network neighbourhood where it will appear with a nice friendly, comprehensible name.

I can't see how an application to do the same is going to make it much simpler, but maybe I'm missing something....like I'm assuming that copying files using Windows Explorer is something they're capable of already.

Anyway...to do it in an application, the easiest way is still to share the Desktop folders from the user's profiles, get your application to find and list them, and then use a FileOpen dialog to select the file(s) to copy, and a Copy command to copy them.

If, for some reason, you can't share the Desktop filder, then you're probably going to need something much more complex.

jc

jc

Hobbes

You can also do it in a batch file like...


copy *.* \\machinename\share

mastermind2005

It can be done in windows i knew before i asked the question but to have a screen infront of you with a button saying "send file to marys computer" is easier for some people, im looking to make a network childsplay.

i want to be able to do everything that can be done on a network using windows but with a stylish program,

i have a basic layout of the gui i want but i fail when it comes to coding,

has anyone done anything in this area ?

Plankmonkey

mastermind2005 wrote:

It can be done in windows i knew before i asked the question but to have a screen infront of you with a button saying "send file to marys computer" is easier for some people, im looking to make a network childsplay.

i want to be able to do everything that can be done on a network using windows but with a stylish program,

i have a basic layout of the gui i want but i fail when it comes to coding,

has anyone done anything in this area ?

OK in that case the answer is it wouldn't be very difficult at all. you mentioned you have used VB before, try looking up the "filesystemobject" as a starting point, it should have everything you need.

Zombrex

mastermind2005 wrote:

i want to be able to do everything that can be done on a network using windows but with a stylish program

That is a big job for someone with no coding experience. The hardest part will be learning how to do it.

Of the top of my head I would go for a web interface using JavaScript. You put your code into a .html file that the person loads into their browser and then the JavaScript does everything. Even doing that it is a big job for someone who doesn't know JavaScript (or any programming).

Personally, I think simply setting up a shared folder and mapping a network drive so Mary sees your machine as drive "F" or whatever is a far far simpler way of doing this, once it is set up it is just another folder on her Explorer window. You seem to be re-inventing the wheel abit.

mastermind2005

What type of rates or total cost would someone like yourself charge ? and how long would you think something like that take to complete ?

Regards

Mutant_Fruit

To be perfectly honest, windows networking is what you want. Just map each drive to appear in the other computers "My Computer" screen. You can even call the mapped drives names like "Mary's Drive" and "Tom's Drive" if you want.

If you REALLY want a program to do it, i (or anyone) could knock something up within a few hours easily enough. It wouldn't be particularly hard to make a basic one. But if you wanted an "advanced" one with special features and whatnot, it could take a bit longer.

You can't quote on a job til you have exact specs of whats required. People have a nasty habit of objecting when prices go up, even though they're adding in more and more features into the spec :P

Hobbes

I would in your case go with the batch file option..

SendToMary.bat

@echo off
copy *.* \\marysmachine\share

Then just put a shortcut on the desktop or start bar pointing to the batch file.

.. Its now about knowing how to code, but knowing when you don't need to code at all.

Zombrex

mastermind2005 wrote:

What type of rates or total cost would someone like yourself charge ? and how long would you think something like that take to complete ?

Regards

Depends on what exactly you want it to do ... if you just want a little button that says "Send to.." that opens up a select file dialog and then sends the file over the network, someone with programming experience could knock something up in say C# in a day.

If you want a very fancy interface, lots of error checking and network features and stuff it would probably take a week or two to develop and test.

theexis

Wicknight wrote:

someone with programming experience could knock something up in say C# in a day.

Jesus, a day to write GetOpenFileName / CopyFile! You're a contractor right

bonkey

If you want a very fancy interface, lots of error checking and network features and stuff

How will you copy to someone else's desktop without network features???

As for the "if you want lots of error checking".....I'm sure the (l)users will be happy with a single "no, that didn't work...go figure out why yourself" message

jc

Hobbes

Wicknight wrote:

Depends on what exactly you want it to do ... if you just want a little button that says "Send to.." that opens up a select file dialog and then sends the file over the network, someone with programming experience could knock something up in say C# in a day.

If you want a very fancy interface, lots of error checking and network features and stuff it would probably take a week or two to develop and test.

A day?!

Here is an easier way. Create a shortcut to a network share and put the short cut into "C:\Documents and Settings\userName\SendTo" folder.

Now you can right click on any file and select Send To... and the share you shortcut to. You can even select multiple files and use it.

Total time to make.. 20 secs.

As I mentioned, coding should not be the "Hammer". I am reminded years ago just before moving jobs they hired in a guy I recommened. Good coder but a C fanatic. If it wasn't written in C it wasn't worth anything to him.

So I had VBDos application running a machine. Worked fine, did exactly the job it was intended and was running at the speed that matched the machine.

He (granted it was his first week) went on how VBDos was a load of crap and C was better (and tbh VBDos was a compiled rather then interpreted language).

So he rewrote the program. It took him 3 days to rewrite the program. The same program in VBDos took half a day. It worked and did the job but was in no way faster as the VBDos program as he found out he was limited by the hardware he was communicating to.

So don't assume that you should be writing something in Java,C#,C++, PERL, etc when there is more the likely an easier solution to it. Each language has its place in the scheme of things.

Zombrex

Hobbes wrote:

A day?!

IN a day :rolleyes:

Hobbes wrote:

Here is an easier way. Create a shortcut to a network share and put the short cut into "C:\Documents and Settings\userName\SendTo" folder.

Now you can right click on any file and select Send To... and the share you shortcut to. You can even select multiple files and use it.

Total time to make.. 20 secs.

That has already been pointed out to him and he has already said he doesn't want to use Windows Explorer, network shares or anything like that ...

I would imagine he wants this to be setup and used by people who have no idea what shares, or networks are (possibly his Granny). Shares and networks seem perfectly simple to people with basic IT experience, but to people like my mother they simply don't make sense (hell the whole drives, C, D thing doesn't make sense).

You are perfectly right that it is complete overkill to write a program like this, especially since he has no programming experience.

But you are being a bit "this is the correct way to do it!" which is ironic considering you were just giving out about people doing just that. People, including myself have already pointed out to the OP that this is a lot of work but he seems determined. So look at what the person is asking for help with rather than telling him again how he should be doing it.

Zombrex

bonkey wrote:

How will you copy to someone else's desktop without network features???

With a well trained monkey called Mojo ... show the people your happy dance Mojo! ...

Sleepy

Hobbes wrote:

A day?!

Here is an easier way. Create a shortcut to a network share and put the short cut into "C:\Documents and Settings\userName\SendTo" folder.

Now you can right click on any file and select Send To... and the share you shortcut to. You can even select multiple files and use it.

Total time to make.. 20 secs.

I'd second this as the way of doing this. I support an application used by a user base that are primarily functionally computer illiterate and can't imagine they'd have any problems with using this.

You could create a folder on each persons desktop and share that out, name each of the shortcuts as "Jim's Computer", "Mary's computer" etc.

Hobbes

Wicknight wrote:

IN a day :rolleyes:

In a day is still incredibly long. If you said in an hour or in 10 minutes then yea.

That has already been pointed out to him and he has already said he doesn't want to use Windows Explorer, network shares or anything like that ...

I would imagine he wants this to be setup and used by people who have no idea what shares, or networks are (possibly his Granny).

They don't have to know what a share is with the SendTo option either. They just right click and Send. If he wants to keep them away from even that he can just create a batch file as mentioned and run that (double click or AT command).

bonkey

I think the batch file is a dreadful idea Hobbes

What are you going to do...get it to copy every file from a specific location to a destination? So the user will "simply" have to use Windows Explorer to ensure they put/copy/move the file they want to transfer (and only the file they want to transfer) to a specific location before running the batch file.

So, to avoid getting them to use Windows Explorer to copy to another machine, you get them to use Windows Explorer to manage their files locally and then have this batch file to run...

So look at what the person is asking for help with rather than telling him again how he should be doing it.

And people wonder why IT has a bad name.

<shrug>

You try telling someone that a project is a waste of money and that they can solve their problem without resorting to development, and (perhaps) suggest that a more cost-effective use of the money would be user-training (given that its from a lack of basic "how-to" computer knowledge that the problem stems)......

.....and you're the bad/i] guy for not answering the question.

Of course, charge proper development rates to make a solid, slick application as requested (and lets face it, dumb users will need a robust application, support will need detail logs for figuring out whats going wrong when teh user gives feedback of "it isn't working", and so on).....

...and you're the bad guy for 'overcharging' by developing a sledgehammer-for-a-peanut solution.

Or, you could do a quick-and-dirty development in under a man-day, not test it properly, not worry about robustness, supportability or any of that....

....and you're the bad guy for delivering a POS.

Hobbes

bonkey wrote:

I think the batch file is a dreadful idea Hobbes

What are you going to do...get it to copy every file from a specific location to a destination

Well the batch file is just if you don't want the user to select what files get copied but rather copy from set area to another set area (for example, central backup to another machine that takes "Documents and Settings" to another machine).

The shortcut to a share is the best option, especially as a sendTo reference. Saves them having to fiddle around looking for the right place to copy to.

You could also create a shortcut to the batch file as another option and pass in variables to the batch file via a shortcut so it not only copies but does something else you want (I recall doing this before some time ago, must dig it out again).

so something like for the shortcut.

cmd /C myBatch.bat %1

Mutant_Fruit

Well suppose you want to be able to run this "network" app on several PC's which may or may not be there, and may or may not be on? Wouldn't it be better if the app could identify WHAT pc's are there. An app could be set up to broadcast a message on the local net, and any PC's running the app could then pick up that broadcast, and add the new computer into its list of available PC's.

This way if you were to get a laptop you could just hook it into the network and install the app, and you're away! The laptop will auto-detect all other computers running the app. You can transfer files to and from the laptop/other computers without the hassle of setting up an FTP or reconfiguring Windows Filesharing or knowing tricks to get around that.

Can't do that in a batch script Its also why it'd take a day not an hour... or 10 mins. You want this app to be so easy to use that it requires NO user setup (bar typing in the computers "name" into the app so you can identify which computer is which).

Hobbes

Mutant_Fruit wrote:

Well suppose you want to be able to run this "network" app on several PC's which may or may not be there, and may or may not be on? Wouldn't it be better if the app could identify WHAT pc's are there. An app could be set up to broadcast a message on the local net, and any PC's running the app could then pick up that broadcast, and add the new computer into its list of available PC's.

Well if the share wasn't there it would prompt you to say it couldn't find the machine in question.

Can't do that in a batch script Its also why it'd take a day not an hour... or 10 mins.

But he doesn't really go into detail as to exactly what it is he wants and your description is nothing like what he has described so far (oh and you can do in a batch file, just not the best way to do it). Can speculate all day. Although your suggestion would be solved by an out of the box Peer to Peer software and wouldn't require coding either.

Oh and although I haven't used it Windows does have a form of virtual Share for when machines go down, sounds similar to what you want (as opposed to what OP wants)

Mutant_Fruit

Hobbes wrote:

Well if the share wasn't there it would prompt you to say it couldn't find the machine in question.

Aye, but if a new share was to be added would a non-tech person be guaranteed to be competent enough to manage to add in the new computer? An auto-discover would be much better as it protects against that.

Ideally they'd be competent enough to map a network drive into My Computer (that would be perfect) but assuming they're not able to do that, do you think they could even work a bat file?

Hobbes

Mutant_Fruit wrote:

Ideally they'd be competent enough to map a network drive into My Computer (that would be perfect) but assuming they're not able to do that, do you think they could even work a bat file?

If you can double click an icon you can work a bat file.

mastermind2005

The feature mutant fruit described is exactly one of the abilitys this program requires, but not so the end user can navagate nor administrate, the product will have a completly profesional look and feel, ALMOST microsoft in appearance,

calpable of supporting 2 Systems + and also incoperating printer & wireless pcs access.

Mutant_Fruit

Why not give an exact description of your "ideal" program, describing exactly what you want it to do. Maybe even how you'd do it IF you could program. Write in plain english though, don't try writing code to explain your idea Then we could tell you the best way to do it.

I still think My Computer and drive mapping would be easy enough to work, but for the right € i could cook something up, but i'd say i'd be charging more than you're willing to pay. I know you want it free

ressem

Sounds like a frontend to the command line "net" command is what he wants, by default creating an smb share on each client, with a client specific name, uses net view for discovery, makes a smb hole in any XP firewalled machines it's installed on, and readds the file support for net send, sensibly removed by MS for security reasons.

At least looking through the windows help files for net (Not .NET btw) might give him a reference point for further discussion.

osmethod

1. If you want to program such from a programming point of view... and seeing as you have used VB, why not use the winsock control on a form etc...

2. Otherwise, the OS has loads of tools and methods...

osmethod

clearz

Listen If you want a nice little program that anyone can open on their desktop and sellect some files in an easy to use GUI and then send them to the shared folder in someone elses computer then I will be able to do the for you for arround €50.

Otherwise you could learn to code which can take quite some time or you can use the suggested batch file method. Personally I dont like batch files myself. I just dont like the look of the icon or something.

PM me if your interested and we will talk more.

Capt'n Midnight

mastermind2005 wrote:

The feature mutant fruit described is exactly one of the abilitys this program requires, but not so the end user can navagate nor administrate, the product will have a completly profesional look and feel, ALMOST microsoft in appearance,

calpable of supporting 2 Systems + and also incoperating printer & wireless pcs access.

Reminds me of that Dilbert cartoon where the goal for Q4 is new OS to have 50% market share, and it must run on windows 95..

But if you can't explain clearly what you want then it hard to do it.
An OSI model lists 7 layers of network connections , still unsure how many you want done by the OS and how many by the app.
[php]
REM batch file to open folder "share" on other machines.
net view>netview.txt
FOR /F %%m in (netview.txt) DO if exist %%m\share\*.* start %%m\share

REM batch file to look for shares / printers
echo.>resources.txt
FOR /F %%m in (netview.txt) DO net view %%m >>resources.txt
for /F %%a in (resources.txt) DO parse the file and then start \\%%a\printername
[/php]

mastermind2005

Thanks clerz for that offer, sofar I have put together a GUI within vb, i dont have any code written and its a basic interface sofar, i need an individual with the ability to create the code for this system (doesnt have to be in vb) any would appreciate a pm if anyone is interested and we can then work out rates,

Thanks

Mutant_Fruit

i'd be interested alright. I'm a poor college student and need all the money i can get . If you could PM me (or post here) the exact specs of what you want i could make an educated guess as to how long it'd take me to do it. Spend half an hour and try to think of everything you'd like it to be able to do.

e.g. Drag and drop files to send them? Autodiscover of other people using the app on the lan? Allow app to send files over the net to remote PC(i'd recommend against this though as i'd charge more ). Default directories (more secure) or allow any directory or have an option for both?

rsynnott

mastermind2005 wrote:

What type of rates or total cost would someone like yourself charge ? and how long would you think something like that take to complete ?

Regards

At LEAST €100. Per second.

mastermind2005

Im still interested in hearing from people intersted in this project, Im willing to pay for the work that i want done.

Send me a pm if interested

Mutant_Fruit

I take it you did get my return email then? I'll send a PM now anyway

mastermind2005

I havent got your returnd mail or pm yet!

Cheers