Anti-Social Ireland

Pighead

Is it just me, or are our society becoming more anti-social?

On the train, everybody sits with their head down, ignoring Pigheads gaze. Some people have a laptop open. The pretty girls are staring blankly at their 2 month old copy of Cosmo,One lads actually watching a portable TV.

Today, when you chat up a random girl while walking down the street (or a guy, if you're female,+boy on boy,girl+girl etc etc)), most people find it extremely strange. When I randomly talk to a stranger, especially if its a girl, most of my friends say things like "Are you mad? She'll think you're a freak."

Well, it doesn't happen. 5% of people will think you're a freak, but the other 95% will find you to be quite friendly (as long as you dont threaten to kill them or tell them about your fisnet fetish). And another 5% out of that 95 will go out with you


Grandad Pighead can still remember a time when you made friends by talking to people while buying some bread, or chat to a few guys while sitting on the bus station.

Today, most people at the bus station try to shut themselves off from each other.

When I was a kid, we moved into a new house in a small area. The neighbours greeted us with a basket of bread fresh from their oven, and we went over for a small dinner party. Our families became good friends.

10 years later, I move out to an apartment near college. Most of the people, some of them college students, put their head down while walking down the corridor. I greet most of the people on my floor, but every time I knocked on a door, it was 5 minutes before the resident actually unlatched the security chain!


I don't blame this problem on Ireland, or capitalism, or the church or whatever. I blame this problem on people. As we become an "advanced" society, we no longer see the need for friendships. Instead, we're becoming absorbed in our computer games and television and chat rooms (why the hell would you go into a chat room when theres a billion people out there to talk to in REAL LIFE).

Those of you who enjoy living hermit lifestyles, you don't need to move to the country. The city is already a place where everyone is shutting themselves off from the physical world, and entering the "global village" or "cyberspace". People don't need social skills anymore; all you need to do is type some lols into your "chat room".


This post is taking ages,some stupid fcuker keeps trying to talk to me while i'm on the net talking to my buddies.What the hells his problem
Freak

ferdi

i know exactly what pighead is talking about, lack of eye contact wth strangers, not making conversation etc but as a 20 year old from dublin i can honestly say i cant remember it any other way....

Enii

I notice if I am walking in the park that older people will always say hello or comment on the weather, etc. as they pass you. I love it when they do and give them a big cheery hello back. No-one uder 40 seems to though......

Vokes

Actually, i was coming home yesterday on the DART, i did a huge yawn (was very tired) and the woman opposite me started saying "Ah, ya poor thing, you've been working very hard, have you?"

Thought it was a bit strange, her just striking up a conversation like that but i went with it, and had a very refreshing 10min conversation about weather, travel, etc.. It was a nice change from the normal commuting routine.

Pighead

SofaKing wrote:

Actually, i was coming home yesterday on the DART, i did a huge yawn (was very tired) and the woman opposite me started saying "Ah, ya poor thing, you've been working very hard, have you?"

Thought it was a bit strange, her just striking up a conversation like that but i went with it, and had a very refreshing 10min conversation about weather, travel, etc.. It was a nice change from the normal commuting routine.

Fair play to you SofaKing,an awful lot of people in that same situation would have died of embarrasment at the thoughts of having to speak to a scary old lady in public.I see it every day,old lady talks to cool young adult,cool young adult mumbles an inaudible one word reply and looks out the window leaving the old lady thinking,you're not cool sonny jim,you're a fool.Talking is good,old ladies arent scary

Vokes

I should point out that she wasn't particularly old, about mid-40s.

egan007

News, TV, Media, Adds, Companies, Michael Mc Tool are making people afraid

Kingp35

I have no problem talking to strangers like this I enjoy it but I must admit that its very rare that someone would start talking me unless they wereat least in their forties. I also gotta say that foreign people strike up alot more conversations with me that Irish people do

Beruthiel

Pighead wrote:

When I was a kid, we moved into a new house in a small area. The neighbours greeted us with a basket of bread fresh from their oven, and we went over for a small dinner party. Our families became good friends

would it cheer the cockles of your heart pighead, to know that I moved into a new house 3 months ago, one of the neighbours came over with a box of roses and a card to welcome me to the hood - have to say that I was taken totally by surprise and was more than a little touched.
Its a rare thing, but it does still happen

Pighead

Beruthiel wrote:

would it cheer the cockles of your heart pighead, to know that I moved into a new house 3 months ago, one of the neighbours came over with a box of roses and a card to welcome me to the hood - have to say that I was taken totally by surprise and was more than a little touched.
Its a rare thing, but it does still happen

Now thats what i'm talking about,i have to admit a tear welled up in my cynical eye as i read taht,perhaps all is not lost.Thanks for that heartwarming story Beruthial.I love Fridays

pugleon

Talking with straingers is bad. Much like taking sweets from them.

You should take up smoking, heaps of guys n gals outside the pubs these days thanks to gimps in this Country not standing up for their right to chain smoke in confined areas around baby infants...

Mr.Nice Guy

I agree with Pighead. I think this generation really struggles with the idea of talking to strangers whereas it seems the older generation are quite comfortable with it.

Maybe it stems from the teachings of society? We're told from a young age 'Don't talk to strangers', 'It's rude to stare' etc.

Old habits die hard...

pickarooney

Strange, I was back in Ireland for a few days last week and was so delighted to meet 'normal' people again. From the moment I got on the plane to the moment I got back I was meeting and talking with random people all over the place - planes, buses, pubs, sharing a nervous/hilarious moment with a streetful of people as a crazed squirrel played frogger with the lorries on Eccles Street (he got away!).

Kingp35

One thing i have noticed is that when irish people are on holidays (particularily students like myself) will talk to anyone. We always strike up conversations with complete strangers including fellow Irish that are away. I was on holidays in Europe for a bit during teh summer and I met loads of people wherever I went.

Why is it different when we are at home?

Red Alert

i very much doubt that we're becoming more anti-social, although this could just be because i'm in the happy cocoon of UCD where it's probably more OK to talk to randomers than in the general universe.

i wouldn't generally make conversation with someone walking down the street or on a bus for that matter. might have a word with the bus driver or the like as i'm getting out when i'm going to the last stop.

Ann Elk

I definately think we are becoming increasingly anti-social, though not through any conscious doings. Rather, I think its dictated to us by the way society has developed - we now do our shopping in huge neon-lit hangars, racing each other to get to the till first so we can be first out to sit in the traffi jam, cursing and hooting at all the idiots around us.

We do our banking (and similar sounding activities ) over the internet, we buy our dvd's and cd's there. We fight fellow students for the library books at exam times just in case they should get a mark as good as us.

We invest huge amounts in security systems for our houses and and cars so no-one can take them from us and worst of all, we view our neighbours with distrust and hostility.

For example, I recently moved into a new neighbourhood and promptly set about attempting to strike up playful relations with the youth of the area - imagine my disgust when I was violently accosted by an angry group of parents one evening whilst returning from my nightly constitutional. They threw me on the groun and kicked me so hard that my entire body bruised through my Barney costume. What has become of society?

Yours sincerely,
Father Feeley.

Beruthiel

maybe we expect too much?
I have had many french people tell me they cannot believe the way irish people just randomly talk to them, so it could be a lot worse!

Ann Elk

Beruthiel wrote:

maybe we expect too much?
I have had many french people tell me they cannot believe the way irish people just randomly talk to them, so it could be a lot worse!

I bet that they're hot though.

Pighead

Red Alert wrote:

i very much doubt that we're becoming more anti-social, although this could just be because i'm in the happy cocoon of UCD where it's probably more OK to talk to randomers than in the general universe.

i wouldn't generally make conversation with someone walking down the street or on a bus for that matter. might have a word with the bus driver or the like as i'm getting out when i'm going to the last stop.

Ok fair point but i'm sure you'd have the social skills to converse with a stranger if they initiated a conversation with you while you were on the bus.Many of our generation have lost this wonderful skill.
New technology such as cell phones, text messaging, online messaging, email, and forums have played a large part in the isolation of todays Irish population. The human psych demands PHYSICAL contact with other humans, this is basically part of our nature, we're physical creatures. You would think that todays new communication technologies would have boosted social contact, though they have done the opposite, most have infact isolated many from physical contact with others. Think about it, what's company if you can message them over the internet? What's a fight if you're emailing each other back and forth? The point is that these new technologies are makeing people more and more antisocial every day. For example: Each year more Irish will drone on into oblivion on their computers rather than going out with their friends.
Bring back the chatty Irish,lets lose the lazy fatty irish

Dades

I've no problem with a random conversation on the train if the situation arises. There's no onus on you to keep talking.

It's the stilted conversations you get stuck with when you meet someone you half know on the way to work that kill me.

Commuter #1: How're you?
Commuter #2: Greeeeat how're you?
Commuter #1: Couldn't be better.
LARGE PAUSE
Commuter #2: Keeping well then?

*cringe*

Tobias Greeshman

pighead wrote:

When I randomly talk to a stranger, especially if its a girl, most of my friends say things like "Are you mad? She'll think you're a freak."

Well there probably right, but Id say a percentage a little higher than 5%, and she wont really think your a freak, she'll be surprised why your stopping her for no reason whatsoever, other than to have a chat. If someone stopped me walking down a street in dublin or any other city, I couldn't help but think that they want something from me, Im sure other people think in a similar way. Especially when you see the annoying charity p****s pestering you for money down Grafton/O'Connell street.

I know other nationalities are not like this at all, especially americans, which have no problem going up to a complete stranger and chatting away to them and see it as normal behavour.

Blub2k4

silas wrote:

especially americans, which have no problem going up to a complete stranger and chatting away to them and see it as normal behavour.

That's cos they never know where GI will be tomorrow so it's not harm to make SOME friends

simu

Nah. People are still pretty talkative and so on in Ireland in my experience if you open yourself up to it. Talk shíte and the whole world will talk shíte to you etc etc.

Stephen

Seems like a dublin thing to me, plenty of talkative types around here.

Crania

I love it when strangers talk to me on the bus, train, etc. but it rarely happens. Its a bit embarressing when there is a long pause but I find its far easier to talk to complete strangers, I don't know why.

I think people don't really talk to strangers anymore because they have been brought up to be wary of strangers and people these days are too afraid to talk to strangers in case the stranger is wack-job.

I really hope that banter between strangers is not lost in Ireland because we are world-renowed for being a friendly nation and I hope we don't lose that reputation but unforunately I think we already have started to lose it

Dave!

It's probably because of the way everyone's barraged with news stories about "RAPE, MURDER, KIDNAPPING, EXECUTION, MUGGING, STABBING, SHOOTING" non-stop, to the point that you're looking at people differently -- wondering if they're gonna take out a syringe or a mobile phone. It's sad, really, and my dad commented on this before too. In his opinion, there's no sense of community anymore, and when he was younger you'd know everyone in your area; but now you could live next door to someone all your life and not know them. Kinda crazy... It's sad, though.

*breaks into a course of 'I remember Dublin city, in the rare oul times...' *

AdMMM

I have no problem to talking to total strangers. Especially since I've started working as it's kind of hard to opt out of a conversation. Nowadays theres no stopping me and I regularly start conversations with adults and generally older people than me. I just wouldn't feel comfortable starting a conversation with someone the same age as me who I don't know. They would for sure think I'm crazy!

I've also noticed that the older people are starting to stop talking to the younger people. For example, I wear runners, jeans and a shirt. I don't look rough but nowadays old people just have a generalisation that young people are trouble makers and I've often seen them go head-down past me. Maybe they were always like that, but if I say "Hello" to them as they're walking past me they nearly always pop up and say Hello back and there's almost a sense of relief on their face after discovering I just wanted to say Hello and not steal their dentures!

ando

SofaKing wrote:

I should point out that she wasn't particularly old, about mid-40s.

hmm, MILF territory... :cool:

I generally find it easy to start up a conversation with strangers, u just have to be carefull who you talk to. Asking them questions is the best way to get them talking

Vangelis

Pighead, you're my soulmate!
I'm glad someone posted a thread about this!

In my country, people are awefully shy and isolated. We hide, don't dare to meet others' faces and we lack social skills so much that it is embarrassing.
When I came to Ireland, I was moved by how friendly and welcoming people were. Being polite and open in public makes you so much more at ease, more comfortable with yourself. Looking down when facing a stranger creates such an unpleasant tension, as if you have violated that person's privacy. You're feeling like you are a stalker. It's hysterical.

That's why I miss Ireland so much now. I miss talking to a complete stranger in a pub, saying "Excuse me" to a man who asks friendly if I could let him pass on the street. I'm sad to hear that the younger generation in Ireland have become more shy. It's sickening, really.

simu

What country would that be, Vangelis?

nobodythere

Jeez, Pighead, a useful post? More of this good sir!

Personally I think that in Ireland especially it's a reaction to the constant harrassment of the previous generations in public. "Oh 'tis a lovely day". "Oh tisn't it a fine day". Stop the pretense, it's annoying. I don't know you, nor do I want to talk about the weather with you.

I'm totally getting off the point...

There's a good question that has been swirling in my head since I read this post. If you're constantly listening to your headphones everywhere you go outside, are you wallowing in some sort of self-indulgent hole? Are we being selfish by having absolute control over what we hear when we're in a public place? Are we denying other people the opportunity to meet us by shutting new opportunities and experiences out constantly? Is it rude/cowardly/mentally suicidal of us to constantly wrap ourselves within the familiar and the comfortable and to never be prone to the unexpected?

Granted, sometimes I'm just not in the fookin mood for talking and when some gob sits beside you on the bus and plagues you to talk to them because they think meeting a million people is oh so god damn interesting I just want to knock him one across the face.

Vangelis

Forgot to say to Murderer:
I think it's nice when young people are up-beat and talkative!
Go ahead and talk to people. Maybe they feel the same way, that they will be looked upon as freaks if they make contact with a stranger. It can't be that bad.

Cianos

I think its just a product of city leaving that draws people away from eachother. The more densely populated somewhere is, the less connection there is between one individual and another. An interesting relation between space and people.

You see evidence of what little connection can remain in various situations though - take a lift with one other stranger and there is a little "bond", whether you speak or not you are intensely aware of the other persons presence.

I think its much more to do with environment rather than the condition of media and its effect on the populace.

Pighead, you will be delighted to hear that I had a very nice conversation with a guy I met at the Dart station. Even though the Dart was quite empty we then sat near eachother and continued to talk about all sorts. He even asked me in for a pint when we got to Bray, although I had to decline as I had to meet my friends.

miju

Pighead wrote:

old ladies arent scary

I beg to differ they scare the ever loving ****e out of me









no seriously they do

Vangelis

Cianos wrote:

I think its just a product of city leaving that draws people away from eachother. The more densely populated somewhere is, the less connection there is between one individual and another. An interesting relation between space and people.

You see evidence of what little connection can remain in various situations though - take a lift with one other stranger and there is a little "bond", whether you speak or not you are intensely aware of the other persons presence.

I think its much more to do with environment rather than the condition of media and its effect on the populace.

Yup! If there was a greater distance between people, they would perhaps feel the need to make the few bonds that they at all could. But still, why do most people frown at strangers chatting with oneanother? What is so... awkward about it?

Cianos wrote:

Pighead, you will be delighted to hear that I had a very nice conversation with a guy I met at the Dart station. Even though the Dart was quite empty we then sat near eachother and continued to talk about all sorts. He even asked me in for a pint when we got to Bray, although I had to decline as I had to meet my friends.

Sweet!

LadyJ

I absolutely love talking to random strangers! I prefer it to talking to my friends!
I got talking to some utter lunatic in the stamp duty office last week who loved talking to strangers as well. He made my day!

I dunno,I find that randomers chat to me a lot but I embrace it. It gives me a nice high.

--Kaiser--

See I would tend to agree with the not talking-to-strangers sort of thing than most people who have posted here

For example, the other week I was in Kilkee with a group of friends, we were going for an afternoon pint in one of the resorts' (cough) fine pubs. As i was waiting to order an old decrepit man starts talking to me, he was very hoarse and distinctly hard of hearing so conversation was stilted and difficult but I politely kept talking, all well and good til he finds out I was from Clare, where he proceeds to talk about hurling and hurlers for five minutes solid despite my protests that I neither followed nor knew anything about hurling. Even after I escaped he found me later on with my friends and then proceeded to talk interminably about hurling once more (my friends also don't give a T*ss about hurling)

another time I was sitting in a park reading a newspaper when an alcoholic parked himself besides me and proceeded to give me his life story, which was not so much interesting as wholeheartedly depressing, all the while swigging a naggen of poitin and looking for cigarette butts to smoke

so that type of experience does put me off
that plus I'm generally anti-social, people who talk exessively aggravate me no end, and I've had too many experiences working with people who are dull as dishwater as well as thick as s**t

fly_agaric

Pighead wrote:

I see it every day,old lady talks to cool young adult,cool young adult mumbles an inaudible one word reply and looks out the window leaving the old lady thinking,you're not cool sonny jim,you're a fool.Talking is good,old ladies arent scary

I wish nice old ladies would talk to me on the bus. The chatty people who sit beside on the bus always smell of beer and/or píss and want to talk at me in a deranged kind of way rather than have a pleasant conversation.

Actually this doesn't happen too often. Nobody normal will sit beside me until there are no seats left becuase I am very, very ugly, wear scruffy clothing and carry the black death on my front teeth.

Dimitri

Originally was going to agree with pighead when i first saw this thread but never got a chance to reply at the time. It was something i saw today though when i was waiting to get my bus in the pissing rain today that reminded me of it. Now there is usually a big crowd waiting for this bus and never in any particular order. Now this middle aged lady had been eating chicken wings under the shelter and you know how the sauce on that stuff usually goes all over the place, and she did get some on her face. When she had finished she duly wiped it awy however i noticed she missed a spot on her face. Turns out i wasn't the only one because there was this group of girls bout 14/15 subtly pointing and sniggering. Eventually a good few people became aware of it except the lady who seemed oblivious to what was going on. I thought to myself this is very bad form but no way was i going to say anything to her, thankfully another women took it upon herself to walk over to the lady and quietely say it to her. On the one hand maybe the op is correct we are an anti social bunch on the other hand on lady wasn't, isn't that just as good?

Kell

The one that took the absolute biccy for me was on CHRISTMAS morning. I was walkin in the hills of Dublin in the snow (beautiful it was too) and of the twenty or so people I wished a merry Christmas to, only about six replied. Six months before I was on Carauntoohill having my parties every action carefully watched over by bunches of random strangers making sure everyone knew where they were going.

Its odd that as many many people complain over in PI's that they are lonely and find it difficult to communicate with people, when the single greatest gift we have for communication is being forgotton in preference for faceless texts and e-mails. I wrote a similar thread to this one months back. The problem is obviously getting worse.

I would agree with the idea that media plays a part in it though. About a year ago, I was a tad hungover and walking home from a party on a Sunday afternoon. When I asked two early teen girls for directions, they nearly legged it. I was at least twenty feet away from them at that point too. If you barrage someone with thoughts that their kids are going to get assaulted all the time, you are going to wind up with a society that doesnt talk to eachother and cant communicate. Just look at PI's. LOL.

K-

Madge

I don't agree that technology has caused people to become anti-social. If anything, technology has facilited communication between people. The likes of chat forums are a blessing for people who are shy / depressed etc. Friendships / relationships can be made online and then people can meet up and have a chat face to face and build their social skills up. The 'Boards Beers' being an example.
People can now use txt to ask others out and flirt, which they probably wouldn't/couldn't do face to face. Romantic and friendly relationships have been formed because of this.

I agree that Ireland has become anti-social to a certain degree, but society has changed so much. The population is growing (I hate crowds!), lifestyles have become so much busier. Ireland is now much more dangerous- There are thugs, gangs, paedos walking the streets. All these factors combine to perhaps create a more anti-social Ireland.

chern0byl

Kell wrote:

Its odd that as many many people complain over in PI's that they are lonely and find it difficult to communicate with people, when the single greatest gift we have for communication is being forgotton in preference for faceless texts and e-mails.

I dont think your point is relevant to most of society. I think nerds/geeks are progressively getting more and more anti-social as technology has produced so many ways [especially in the last 10 years] to have faceless communication.

Most of my friends are not nerds[like myself] and they dont rely on email/the web etc for the basis of their communication. I can easily move between both which is cool.

simu

chern0byl wrote:

I think nerds/geeks are progressively getting more and more anti-social as technology has produced so many ways [especially in the last 10 years] to have faceless communication.

Are they chatting to bots or what?

Communicating with other humans is social whether it's done online or in the so-called real world(tm). You don't need to see a person's face to comminicate with them!

chern0byl

simu wrote:

Are they chatting to bots or what?

I agree with you to a certain extent but i dont think friends you only have online are genuine friends. I know personally from talking to fellow nerds..they are silent and lacking basic social skills to hold a conversation. They have been reclusive and online from their early teens, only had friends online and just lack the ability to have relationships of meaning in the real world.
I dont pity them or feel sorry. They are happy with that way of life and i am just calling it as i see it.

simu

chern0byl wrote:

I agree with you to a certain extent but i dont think friends you only have online are genuine friends. I know personally from talking to fellow nerds..they are silent and lacking basic social skills to hold a conversation. They have been reclusive and online from their early teens, only had friends online and just lack the ability to have relationships of meaning in the real world.
I dont pity them or feel sorry. They are happy with that way of life and i am just calling it as i see it.

Yeah, but would they have not been worse off in the old days? I mean chatting online is better than not chatting to anyone at all, ever. Or is it you think they would have been forced to engage with people in the real world(tm) in the old days because there was no other option and that they would have gotten over their social problems?

chern0byl

From talking to the old school nerds, its better and worse but in relation to this thread, they are in a much worse situation. Basically in the "old" days like you said, they had to talk to each other directly as that was really the only means of communication except for the phone phreaks. People have actually proven with technology today, you dont even have to leave your house to survive.

Personally, i have been the reclusive/anti or unsociable type and now the outgoing type. I much prefer being to latter...i can easily see a weekend disappear sitting at the puter except their always someone on the phone looking to go on the piss...i call em my saviours

simu

chern0byl wrote:

From talking to the old school nerds, its better and worse but in relation to this thread, they are in a much worse situation. Basically in the "old" days like you said, they had to talk to each other directly as that was really the only means of communication except for the phone phreaks. People have actually proven with technology today, you dont even have to leave your house to survive.

Personally, i have been the reclusive/anti or unsociable type and now the outgoing type. I much prefer being to latter...i can easily see a weekend disappear sitting at the puter except their always someone on the phone looking to go on the piss...i call em my saviours

Well, is it so bad never to go out? Is it so bad to be anti-social? Of course it is if it's making you miserable but might some people not be happier that way?

chern0byl

Ofcourse not. Whatever makes you happy. I discovered girls and music so out i go. I will say this though...if you were to take the most removed individual you could find(who said he was totally happy with that) and introduce him to engaging people and a more social way of living, do you think he would still be happy with the reclusive way?

I know there is no absolute, but in 99% of cases he would see the flaws in being so removed from society.

simu

chern0byl wrote:

Ofcourse not. Whatever makes you happy. I discovered girls and music so out i go. I will say this though...if you were to take the most removed individual you could find(who said he was totally happy with that) and introduce him to engaging people and a more social way of living, do you think he would still be happy with the reclusive way?

I know there is no absolute, but in 99% of cases he would see the flaws in being so removed from society.

Well, possibly.

Myself - I like a balance of both but I really need a good dose of solitude every now and then.

the_syco

Haven't read the thread, but here's my two cents:

A large reason for anti-social behaviour is that more people are moving into confined spaces, with not much to do. Look at all the "scum-bag" places, and I'd say there is little to do, but lots of young people of a similar age. Its becoming more noticeable now, as what used to keep the children content is now seen as "uncool", and thus large amounts are becoming restless.

If you looked back 10 years, and picked a group of people, 1% may have been anti-social. Now, that goup of people would be larger, and thus that 1% would be larger. Because of this, the anti-social percentage may seem higher, when in fact its the same, just that the percentage is a percent of a larger group of people.

DublinWriter

Personally I've found that....

The unfriendliness of a place is inversely proportional to (its density of population * times its throughput of tourists).

For example - Dublin very unfriendly, Midlands friendly, Galway unfriendly, etc, etc