The "class" issue in Dublin is beginning to piss me off...

AARRRGH

What is it with people from council estates etc. and their class issues?

I'm from Blackrock (wealthy part of Dublin if you haven't heard of it.) I have a posh accent (I grew up there, can't help it.)

I have no class issues whatsoever. I do not give a **** where you are from. I do not give a **** about your accent.

I don't know ANYONE else in Blackrock who feels differently than me. We are too busy getting on with our lives to give a **** about "class".

Anyway. What happened to me on Friday night is very typical for me. It has happened many times.

I was chatting to some bloke (friend of a friend of a friend). One of the first things he says to me is "I'm from a council estate and I have a Masters Degree." I said, "Yeah cool. What is it in?" etc etc. I thought his sentence was strange, but I didn't really care enough to think twice about it. Then he asks aggressivily, "Where are you from??" and then starts ranting on about everything being about class and how the middle class think their great etc.

I HATE THIS ****.

What is it with people and their bloody stupid class inferiority complexes? NO ONE IN THE "MIDDLE CLASS" GIVES A ****. GET OVER IT.

UGH. So retarded.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Yeah poor people are so angry...
They should put them off on an island somewhere.

electric69

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

Yeah poor people are so angry...
They should put them off on an island somewhere.

OMG..did u not read what he just said or what?!..he is trying 2 say (from my reading) that it makes no difference where you are from, grew up, or whether, in this case, you are from a wealthy area or a W.C area.We are all human beings...its not like you have a different brain becuase u grew up in a different area...its like tryin 2 say that white people are better than black people or visa-versa just because of their skin colour.

Comments like yours really arent helping anybody or contributing to the thread in any shape or form.I think i speak for everyone when i say keep your stupid, ignorant opinions to yourself.

AARRRGH

electric69 wrote:

OMG..did u not read what he just said or what?!..he is trying 2 say (from my reading) that it makes no difference where you are from, grew up, or whether, in this case, you are from a wealthy area or a W.C area.We are all human beings...its not like you have a different brain becuase u grew up in a different area...its like tryin 2 say that white people are better than black people or visa-versa just because of their skin colour.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Thanks for the clarification

electric69

dublindude wrote:

That's exactly what I'm saying. Thanks for the clarification

No prob...i cant believe that he actually said that after what you had just said...some peoples intelligence leaves a lot to be desired. :mad:

Giblet

As someone who grew up in a ****hole and moved and then became prosperous (yes that's my merc har har) I hate all types of class bigotry. I take everyone at face value. I think alot of people are afraid of anything outside their usual surroundings and don't really understand "other people".

ferdi

i hate these uneducated povers and their class stereotyping bigotry

Tusky

poor people are less intelligent though.

Guy:Incognito

electric69 wrote:

OMG..did u not read what he just said or what?!..he is trying 2 say (from my reading) that it makes no difference where you are from, grew up, or whether, in this case, you are from a wealthy area or a W.C area.We are all human beings...its not like you have a different brain becuase u grew up in a different area...its like tryin 2 say that white people are better than black people or visa-versa just because of their skin colour.

Comments like yours really arent helping anybody or contributing to the thread in any shape or form.I think i speak for everyone when i say keep your stupid, ignorant opinions to yourself.

You know a joke isnt funny anymore if it has to be explained to you...





...he was joking. (however good the idea might be)

electric69

that was a joke....last time i checked my sense of humour was still there and working as good as ever...if that was a "joke" well then some people have a very weird sense of humour

Guy:Incognito

electric69 wrote:

that was a joke....last time i checked my sense of humour was still there and working as good as ever...if that was a "joke" well then some people have a very weird sense of humour

Maybe you need to explain humour to ferdi and tusky as well so.

I laughed.

ferdi

electric69 wrote:

that was a joke....last time i checked my sense of humour was still there and working as good as ever...if that was a "joke" well then some people have a very weird sense of humour

go back to the slums you filthy knack

Nightwish

people on both sides of the class divide are responsible for the animosity between the upper/middle class and working class. There are people, not the OP or their friends, but there are people, and I've witnessed this in Dublin, who mock those they see as being "inferior" because of where they live,AND equally, I've seen working class people refer to anyone shopping on Grafton St as "poshie ba$tards"

SirLemonhead

Yeah, what's the big deal?

Farls

I thought it funny enough too...sarcasm.

Anyway...yes I dont like the way people don't like their "opposites" so to speak. Or if your poor you feel you have to get it across to everyone and same with rich.

I like people who don't let it affect them as a person, I have some very rich friends and some not so well off and we all get along like a house on fire because none of us even think about it.

electric69

ferdi wrote:

go back to the slums you filthy knack

yes im a "knack"....you are obviously one of these uneducated,ignorant,low life wasters who will undoubtably spend the vast majority of their life in Mountjoy or in the que for their money which the scab off the government because they are to lazy to get up off their arse and get a job....i suspect that the computer which you are using is stolen of the back of a lorry no doubt.

Rb

electric69 wrote:

yes im a "knack"....you are obviously one of these uneducated,ignorant,low life wasters who will undoubtably spend the vast majority of their life in Mountjoy or in the que for their money which the scab off the government because they are to lazy to get up off their arse and get a job....i suspect that the computer which you are using is stolen of the back of a lorry no doubt.

Oh obviously :rolleyes:

I agree with the OP completely and don't think I could add anything significant to the points already made.

Oh and tusky,ferdi and Donkeystyle's posts gave me a laugh anyway

Sparky

now now, lets not lets this thread go bad, or nesf will burn it.

my opinion is were all different there will always be a form of discrimination among us, ive seen people and know of people who live is these so called knack areas and go to collage etc and now have a successfull life, so its mostly just jealousy and ignorance by whoever says "oh your from tallagh what would you know" etc etc.

likewise i dont give 2 sh1ts where someones from if they are decent folk who respect themselfs and others then thats all that matters.

Laguna

Is there even a class system in Ireland?. No I don't think there is, there's no Gentry/Ruling class so, no there indeed isn't. Some people wish there was though, I've had nothing but bad experiences in my life when dealing with people from ahem, privileged areas of Dublin. Now maybe I've just been unlucky, but a lot of people I've met from these areas tend to be aloof, smug and condescending. I've worked in many a part time job when I was in College, you name a counter, I've been behind it serving, I've had money thrown at me by D4's, I've had D4's tell me "I'll have you knooooow that ooooooim educated/my daddy is a surgeon", now, granted is the fact that not all people from D4 are snobs, but there's a hell of a high proportion.

OfflerCrocGod

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

Yeah poor people are so angry...
They should put them off on an island somewhere.

It's already been done by the British. It's called Ireland. Unfortunately the EU gave them a lot of money and now they are all rich and all they now do is complain about complainers. Hate the lot of them to be frank.

Lafortezza

The poor people that work for me have no problems with class. If they speak up I just lock them back up.

Laguna

Here, try a new one OfflerCrocGod

"lets blame the British for everything, yes, even in 2005"

Rb

lafortezza wrote:

The poor people that work for me have no problems with class. If they speak up I just lock them back up.

Together?
A few days of solitary confinement works best, less chances of them conspiring to mutiny.

deisedevil

Personally i just can't stand boggers,you know. And those wasters hanging around the streets,you know. Daddy says they should all be locked up and he's put many a scumbag away i can tell you, you know. I'm hoping to follow in my fathers footsteps, currently doing law in trinity, you know. I'm hoping to set up a law firm when i'm qualified with my friends Fiachra and Oscar, you know. Well if i can do it then i can't understand why your average bogger or scumbag can't, you know. They just haven't got the same drive and ambition i suppose, you know. Maybe the government could start up some sort of scheme in places like mountjoy or fas for people who would like to go to Trinity, yaw yaw, maybe i'll try asking daddy if he can use his contacts to set something like that up(daddy knows alot of well to do people, you know) I always like to do my little bit for the unwashed, it's just so sad you know. Anyway i'm rambling, got a little tipsy, Fiachra oscar and i had a few heino's in the college bar and we were tossing them back, haw haw, i'm pretty sure i downed 5 bottles,we get a little wild and roudy sometimes. i'm hitting the sauna before bed. YOU KNOW!

Laguna

lol, that's a rather scathing attack, you know

Cake Fiend

electric69 wrote:

...blah blah, self-righteous rant...

Everyone point and laugh!

And electric69, have a look at this page to see how silly everyone thinks you are.

MorningStar

Class discrimiation is doublesided. Read some books on social studies and it explains a lot about it. It's about bonding everybody bonds to part of a social structure. When you try and break the bonds you may experience hostility. If you got to see a program a while back like the Up shows (7up, 16-up) the showed a kid from a poor back ground who was intelligent and wanted to be a doctor. They then showed his friends and family tell him that it wasn't going to happen and he was stupid to think he could. Basically he was pressuered by his social group for attempting to break the bond.

If 90% of all people in jail are from one area would you avoid contact with people from that area? Would you be warey of such people? Would you treat them differnetly? Would you be happy if a family memember was going to marry somebody from there? If you say yes to these are you right or wrong?

Giblet

MorningStar wrote:

Would you be happy if a family memember was going to marry somebody from there? If you say yes to these are you right or wrong?

I wouldn't be happy if they were a criminal, but wouldn't mind if they weren't.

Kernel

MorningStar wrote:

Class discrimiation is doublesided. Read some books on social studies and it explains a lot about it. It's about bonding everybody bonds to part of a social structure. When you try and break the bonds you may experience hostility. If you got to see a program a while back like the Up shows (7up, 16-up) the showed a kid from a poor back ground who was intelligent and wanted to be a doctor. They then showed his friends and family tell him that it wasn't going to happen and he was stupid to think he could. Basically he was pressuered by his social group for attempting to break the bond.

If 90% of all people in jail are from one area would you avoid contact with people from that area? Would you be warey of such people? Would you treat them differnetly? Would you be happy if a family memember was going to marry somebody from there? If you say yes to these are you right or wrong?

Whereas there is some truth in class bonding, the principle cannot be 100% true (or even 80%) since the vast majority of middle class Irish were not middle class 50 years ago. Once Ireland was a poor backwater, where most people struggled to survive (and we suffered a famine), now we have transformed into a vibrant economy, and people have worked away from the previous working class or even peasant roots.

For me, in the ideal world, class is all about attitude, intelligence and outlook. It wouldn't matter to me where somebody is from, or how much money they have, once they have the right attitude and outlook and are a decent person. The only real wealth is intelligence and knowledge, if you have that, you are automatically 'above' others who are lacking it. That's not to say your social status will not hold you back, or your opportunities in life will be any greater, as circumstances play a huge part in our lives, but arming yourself with knowledge is always useful.

It's also important to realise that even those people who work lacklustre jobs or come from a working class background can possess a keen intelligence, and have knowledge of things that you don't, and as such deserve respect if they give it (ie. attitude).

For another poster who suggested there was no class system in Ireland, I would say that this is unfortunately untrue, and is becoming more pronounced in recent years. Our class system is very much like the British system, without peerage and royalty.

Sangre

dublindude wrote:

One of the first things he says to me is "I'm from a council estate and I have a Masters Degree." I said, "Yeah cool. What is it in?"

You should have replied 'really? Thats funny because I'm from Blackrock and I'm an utter scumbag'

electric69

Sico wrote:

Everyone point and laugh!

And electric69, have a look at this page to see how silly everyone thinks you are.

Well the fact that i never said that and you just made it up doesnt really give me any reason 2 dignify it with an answer.every1 can see for themselves that u clearly just made it up...quite sad actually that you have nothing better to do.

Guy:Incognito

electric69 wrote:

yes im a "knack"....you are obviously one of these uneducated,ignorant,low life wasters who will undoubtably spend the vast majority of their life in Mountjoy or in the que for their money which the scab off the government because they are to lazy to get up off their arse and get a job....i suspect that the computer which you are using is stolen of the back of a lorry no doubt.

Is that the automatic assumption you make against people from working class backrounds?

Dades

Don't you oppress me!

simu

Kernel wrote:

Whereas there is some truth in class bonding, the principle cannot be 100% true (or even 80%) since the vast majority of middle class Irish were not middle class 50 years ago. Once Ireland was a poor backwater, where most people struggled to survive (and we suffered a famine), now we have transformed into a vibrant economy, and people have worked away from the previous working class or even peasant roots.

Yes, but who remembers 50 years ago? The thing is that some people have managed to escape poverty while others have not and unfortunately members of both groups can have issues about it.

MorningStar

Kernel wrote:

Whereas there is some truth in class bonding, the principle cannot be 100% true (or even 80%) since the vast majority of middle class Irish were not middle class 50 years ago. Once Ireland was a poor backwater, where most people struggled to survive (and we suffered a famine), now we have transformed into a vibrant economy, and people have worked away from the previous working class or even peasant roots.

You might need to check your history. There has always been a class structure in Ireland and at no point did it disappear. There were alot of rich Irish people throughout Europe. The middle classes were heavily written about after the 1916 rising. The likes of Donnycarney had a huge wall built between the original housing and the corporation estates being built in the 40s. Even before the property was built you had the discrimination.

Kernel wrote:

It's also important to realise that even those people who work lacklustre jobs or come from a working class background can possess a keen intelligence, and have knowledge of things that you don't, and as such deserve respect if they give it (ie. attitude).

How gracious of you, imagine a waiteress or a barman could be smart! :rolleyes:
I do agree attitude is the big key but you might want to consider your own given how offensive what you have siad is. You might not have meant it that way but it sounds pretty bad.

Kernel wrote:

For another poster who suggested there was no class system in Ireland, I would say that this is unfortunately untrue, and is becoming more pronounced in recent years. Our class system is very much like the British system, without peerage and royalty.

As far as I am concerend I belive Ireland has had the most radicle shake ups to social classes due to house prices. People from many different backgrounds and education are now living side by side just depending on when they entered the property market and not so much on their income as before. Income is obviously not the only connection to class divides but it is a big indicator. My first house was an ex-corpo house one side had the original tenant's daughter (civil servant) the other side had the grandaughter and family (hairdresser and paiter/decorator) of the original tenant. Further down their was a young vet and archeitect the other direction (same houses on the same road). Very diverse class combo compared to 20 years ago.

electric69

Stekelly: is that the automatic assumption you make against people from working class backrounds?

No, not at all. my reaction completly justified what the person in question had said.I never said or claimed that i would put myself in a certain class of background.It clearly doesnt make any difference what your background is, there are just as many so called "kancks" in working class areas as there are in more upper class areas so i would never say that i would base my opinion on where the person is from....only on the persons attitude,manners and respect which they show towards other people

Caliden

roysh so what about your merc like?

electric69

What about my merc? Im not from dublin and your not Ross O' Carroll Kelly so stop talking like him (nobody can ever come close to that ledge!)

Caliden

not aimed at you. stop being so paranoid....

AARRRGH

Isn't it funny that half the posts here are slagging off poor/wealthy people?

Just pointing it out...

Kernel

MorningStar wrote:

You might need to check your history. There has always been a class structure in Ireland and at no point did it disappear. There were alot of rich Irish people throughout Europe. The middle classes were heavily written about after the 1916 rising. The likes of Donnycarney had a huge wall built between the original housing and the corporation estates being built in the 40s. Even before the property was built you had the discrimination.

Oh I'm not disputing that there was no class structure in Ireland previously, I never suggested that? I don't need to check my history on the matter, since what I said was that in the past 50 years, or 100 years if you like, there has been a massive shift in so called working-class moving up to middle. That means that your theory on people being stuck within the class they originate from is wrong.

MorningStar wrote:

How gracious of you, imagine a waiteress or a barman could be smart! :rolleyes:
I do agree attitude is the big key but you might want to consider your own given how offensive what you have siad is. You might not have meant it that way but it sounds pretty bad.

There are plenty of people out there who think that a persons job or role in society defines the person, I'm saying it doesn't, what's wrong with that? We're talking about preconcieved class perceptions here, I'm not being gracious or subscribing to any, merely explaining my point (in this instance that the job doesn't necessarily define a persons qualities).

MorningStar wrote:

As far as I am concerend I belive Ireland has had the most radicle shake ups to social classes due to house prices. People from many different backgrounds and education are now living side by side just depending on when they entered the property market and not so much on their income as before. Income is obviously not the only connection to class divides but it is a big indicator.

Well, yes and no, I still believe that the big expensive houses and areas of the upper classes are still the big and expensive houses and areas of the upper classes. The only difference with housing is much more private ownership of houses by the working class or the middle class in the past 50 years. Having the value of a property increase does not necessarily mean the working/middle class owner is any better off financially, since comparative properties would also have increased (and in more affluent areas they increase at a faster rate), and they would still need somewhere to live.

The gap between rich and poor in ireland is one of the biggest in Europe, so I don't think that there has been as radical a shake up as many homeowners would like to believe. Just because you're working for a mortgage doesn't mean you aint working class.

MorningStar

Kernel wrote:

....

The gap between rich and poor in ireland is one of the biggest in Europe, so I don't think that there has been as radical a shake up as many homeowners would like to believe. Just because you're working for a mortgage doesn't mean you aint working class.

I don't mean to insult but you sound clueless on the subject. You have nice well round view on it but appear to be grossly inacurate on your facts and unaware of how insulting your comment was.
You don't gauge poverty by riches to poorest for starters (that's a silly media trick) you should use average as your bench mark. A homeless person really is no poorer country to country but rich varies a lot
The middle class didn't exist means nothing the classes were always apparent. Most people can be called working class as they work for somebody else . The more accurate rating is ABC1 etc... rating (never can remeber it's proper name).
I explained how radicle the shake up is on one small section of a road. The innercity older areas like North Strand or East Wall are more extreme (inherited property versus a proffesional couple newly bought). There is an absolute huge shake up in most areas with the exception of the very rich but they are even getting appartment blocks and housing estates pushed on them. THe shake up in property is very radicle my cousin who is a plasterer lives in an area where most his neighbours are proffesionals of the highest order and that was just because he was lucky with property. A working plasterer would not be living beside a doctor's home 10 years ago and a vet would not live in a corpo house privately owned. People are constatnly going on about the gentrification of previously rough areas

Sleepy

Just to throw another angle on this, I grew up in the typical Irish "middle class family", Both my parents came from relatively poor backgrounds, both joined the bank after their leaving certs, Mum left work to raise me, Dad's been a bank manager most of my life. Went to a decent secondary school and lived at home (paying my rent from a part-time job) for college. So, like I said, typical Irish "middle class" background.

Fast track to present day. I'm working for a living, earning an okay salary but still buried under College debts. Sure, I've prospects but on paper my net worth would be a negative figure and I'm far from alone in this position. Financially we're worth less than your average tennant in a council house that's drawing the dole but we're still considered "middle class" by virtue of our backgrounds. So, where do I and all the others in this position fit in?

Are we working class? Middle Class? Something else?

Personally I'd argue that the only class that matters is class in the sense of one's actions and manners, not where you're from or what you're worth. The old notion of a ruling, a middle and a working class doesn't exist any more if you ask me.

There's just people, of varying degrees of wealth and virtue.

electric69

Personally I'd argue that the only class that matters is class in the sense of one's actions and manners, not where you're from or what you're worth. The old notion of a ruling, a middle and a working class doesn't exist any more if you ask me.

I would agree totally with this.People from working class backgrounds can be very wealthy while people from upper class backgrounds can be less well off and struggling financially.

Are we working class? Middle Class? Something else?

I dont really know to be honest.Under what sircumstances does one fall into the middle or upper class catogory?

If a family is finacially secure and can afford to put thier children through college(paying rent, fees, living expenese,etc), and are able to go abroad on holiday trips a few times every year, are they considered to be middle class or upper class?Are people in the upper class only people with bank balances of 6 and 7 figures?

DonkeyStyle \o/

electric69 wrote:

some peoples intelligence leaves a lot to be desired. :mad:

Stupid people have the right to an opinion too.
Or do you think they need to be shipped off to 'stupid people' island?
Your (pseudo)intellectual snobbery disgusts me.
For shame.

LegacyUser

I absolutely hate knackers. And my reason is simple....the amount of times scumbags have started fights or tried to on myself or my friends cos I am blatantly better looking than them, can speak properly, can conduct myself in an orderly fashion, dress respectably and oh, let's not forget my "posh accent". Can't let that one slip...

I ****ing hate trashy bastards like that. I can not stand them. They make me hate them. I did **** all, just like last saturday week in club 92, the races ended early so the scum were out and about and decided to throw on a few nice jackets(they more than likely robbed) and came to club 92. Then they start a fight with me and my 3 friends at the hot dog stand and there were two of them. My mate got a fair few digs in the head from one of them and then the rest was broken up by the bouncers. These ****ing scumbags came out to MY area and started giving us hassle. the cheek of them. I hate them.

electric69

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

Stupid people have the right to an opinion too.
Or do you think they need to be shipped off to 'stupid people' island?
Your (pseudo)intellectual snobbery disgusts me.
For shame.

I was refering to what was said in the post in question, not the level of intelligence of the person.the person may well be an very intellectual person but their comment lead me to believe other wise.

As for your comment about "stupid people island"...that had nothing what so ever to do with me and i complatly condemned the person that said it.

And i certainly dont have any intellectual snobbery at all.Just because i am well spoken doesnt mean i am a snob.I was living with a person from a very rough area of dublin for the last year and got on with him very well and i talk 2 him very regularly.I also have a number of friends who some people would class as being from upper class areas i would consider these people to be some of best friends so i certainly dont have an intellectual snobbery....excuse you....

Brock

cheesedude wrote:

I absolutely hate knackers. And my reason is simple....the amount of times scumbags have started fights or tried to on myself or my friends cos I am blatantly better looking than them, can speak properly, can conduct myself in an orderly fashion, dress respectably and oh, let's not forget my "posh accent". Can't let that one slip...

I ****ing hate trashy bastards like that. I can not stand them. They make me hate them. I did **** all, just like last saturday week in club 92, the races ended early so the scum were out and about and decided to throw on a few nice jackets(they more than likely robbed) and came to club 92. Then they start a fight with me and my 3 friends at the hot dog stand and there were two of them. My mate got a fair few digs in the head from one of them and then the rest was broken up by the bouncers. These ****ing scumbags came out to MY area and started giving us hassle. the cheek of them. I hate them.

aint u the same guy who told me the story about u in 92 when u got into a fight with a leinster rugby player because he said ur shirt didnt look good enough to be in and enquired as to wat ur "daddy" did for a living

dude get off ur high horse and treat people as equals i always said u were materialistic and ur post just proved my point.thnx

DonkeyStyle \o/

electric69 wrote:

I was living with a person from a very rough area of dublin for the last year and got on with him very well

Yes, and I worked with a black person one time... we had a good laugh together... hence I'm not a racist and can never be accused of being racist no matter what I say or do. :rolleyes:

electric69 wrote:

I also have a number of friends who some people would class as being from upper class areas i would consider these people to be some of best friends so i certainly dont have an intellectual snobbery

Are you implying that class and intelligence are linked? (better 'breeding' perhaps?) ... if not, I can't think why you've brought class into your defense.

Wibbs

Some of my best friends are scumbags..... :rolleyes: Oh the insularity of the chinless wonder astounds sometimes.

electric69

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

Yes, and I worked with a black person one time... we had a good laugh together... hence I'm not a racist and can never be accused of being racist no matter what I say or do. :rolleyes:

Dont understand what that has got to do with anything.

Are you implying that class and intelligence are linked? (better 'breeding' perhaps?) ... if not, I can't think why you've brought class into your defense.

No im a not implying that at all.my point was to show that i have friends from both ends of the "class" spectrum and i am not biast towards either....and just to point out that it has recently been proven that people who go 2 fee paying schools do not get better grades than people who go to non-fee paying schools.