Tips for starting off in the Industry

sergiotheonly

Hi everyone,
Lot's of great information in here.

I did a masters in Film Studies a few years ago, which was mostly (regrettably) academic in nature. While I'm not going to pretend I didn't enjoy watching movies and writing about them I do feel that it gave us graduates a pretty unrealistic idea of what to expect when the course was over.

Anyway, I started out with some assistant editing work for TV which I got through a friend and, once that dried up, I was at a loss at to what to do next.

I've applied to post production houses for a variety of positions and have sent cv's off to every production facility looking for a PA and a runner but with no luck (and rarely even a reply).

At this point I'm willing to do any work in film or tv - mainly to find out once and for all if it is what I want to pursue as a career. I'm not that young anymore, and some long term plans have to be made at some stage.
So, I was wondering if anyone here had some concrete advice or even, god forbid, a rumour of a place that was actually hiring.

I have some technical experience but mainly I'm hugely enthusiastic about every aspect of film-making.

I just want a chance to do prove myself in this industry.

Any feedback would be appreciated, even criticism. I realise I may be naive in a great many of my assumptions.

Thanks

Hugh_C

sergiotheonly wrote: »

Any feedback would be appreciated, even criticism. I realise I may be naive in a great many of my assumptions.

Thanks

Stick to the reviews dude, but brush up on your use of apostrophes!

The industry is in a downswing at the moment, people tend to fill their vacancies on an ad hoc basis and generally with people they've worked with previously. The older you get the harder it becomes to swallow having to do menial jobs, so it may not be for you ...

:eek:

sergiotheonly

Were there lots of apostrophes out of place?
I'm pretty sure that's one of those rules I never learned properly
The idea of doing menial work doesn't bother me that much - logging and
digitizing tapes in 12 hour shifts is pretty menial as far as I'm concerned.
I'm really just interested in finding out once and for all whether I'm actually interested
in the film/tv business or just into films in more of a passive way.

I'm going to take that as a compliment for the reviews, mainly cos compliments are
in short supply these days so I take them where I can get (or fabricate) them

Hope my punctuation was up to your exacting standards Hugh_C

Now where are those damn nomadic apostrophes...

Hugh_C

sergiotheonly wrote: »

Were there lots of apostrophes out of place?
I'm pretty sure that's one of those rules I never learned properly

Good God (wo)man! It's the thin end of the wedge I tell you! Casement was hung because of a misplaced apostrophe, (or was it a comma)? People have lost their lives and loves over bad punctuation, I'm not kidding.

Hi everyone,
Lot's of great information in here.

That apostrophe is not necessary and therefore a howler.

Logging and digitising in twelve hour shifts is part of the job and is a time-honoured way of learning the trade. Menial it isn't, important it is. Ask Mycroft.

Might I suggest that you link to your CV so at least prospective employers can see what you claim to be able to do ...

sergiotheonly

(wonders whether he should point out a - heaven forbid - mistake in Hugh_C's post...)

I wasn't aware that I claimed to do anything in my initial post - I was just looking for information or advice from people who know more than me. As for my CV, seems like you'd be more content to spell/grammer check it than anything else.

And, for the record, you were the one who mentioned menial jobs not me.

Hugh_C

sergiotheonly wrote: »

(wonders whether he should point out a - heaven forbid - mistake in Hugh_C's post...)

I wasn't aware that I claimed to do anything in my initial post - I was just looking for information

Go for it, Im sure there are load's.

The suggestion stands. Put your CV somewhere visible.

Hugh

BlitzKrieg

if you are willing to suffer the stress, the pressue, the unforgiving hours and above all else the chance that you will only make enough to live on.

Then you could try going independent or through a community route.

It wont be able to sustain you full time, but you'll rack up alot of experiance and might help with connections and future work.

Check the funding schemes such as Sound & Vision etc and try making an application.

If you are stuck getting a broadcaster to give you a letter of broadcasting try some of the smaller channels (DCTV are very laxed on both topic and approval so while being a very very small channel they can get you a letter which the BCI accepts)

Larianne

mycroft wrote: »

"Now when you call SIPTU ask them to send you out the chase list. This is a list of union approved upcoming productions. Notice the date it's starting shooting. Art department, production and locations and other "prep" departments start crewing up and working 6months+ before shoot, while some dept (camera, sound etc) crew up a few weeks beforehand, while editing may not even fully crew up till after the shoot starts. So consider when to approach. If any of the crew you spoke to before mentioned the job now might be a good time to give em a tinkle. Otherwise fax or post your CV into the production manager (their name will be on the chase list as will the address phone and fax number of the production office), and follow up with a call the next week. They'll forward your cv to the approiate HoD. Even if you don't get a job, call up during the shoot (never during the first week too manic) introduce youself and ask maybe if you could come in and meet them. Jobs can crop up during the production.

Next.

Do's and Don'ts

iftn.ie have an up to date chaser list and also a list of pre-productions on the go.

Persistence is the key. You might get many knock backs but it just takes the one person to see your enthusiasim and dedication (must be extremely reliable!!!) for the industry that they'll ask you back.

Have a decent sense of humour. You have to work long hours, in the pissing rain, in a field full of cow ****e, the last thing people want is a moany hole! Eveeryone is in the same boat. It's not a glamorous job!

Just thought I'd post as it's a teeny bit dead in here, what you all got jobs on Tudors?? b*st*rds!

rayband

All that advice was very intersting and worth reading...

Cheers

Galvasean

The best advice is simple. Be nice and don't make enemies. That cannot be stressed enough. If you have a good attitude people will remember you fondly. However if you are deemed to have a bad attitude/work ethic it will be held against you.
Also be sure to get contacts. jeep a journal of people you've worked with, regardless of role. You'd never know when you might end up in a position to work with them again. Obviously I don't mean as an extra stride up to the director and demand his phone number. But any crew (or cast) you get talking to be sure to get at least their email address for future reference. If youre a nice person they'll be happy to oblige (as per point one).

DenMan

Hi sergiotheonly

As other posters have said before, experience and availability are a must. I went out to work in Malta. While over there I worked alongside a wonderful man (at the time when I started with him, I didn't know he was considered the Grandfather of Maltese film/television). Everybody who is everybody in Malta has worked for him at some stage in their lives and also because of him work in the industry there or in neighbouring Italy.

When I got back to Ireland I got involved with (and still am) with a film production company. I spend a lot of my free time with them (graphic design work (self thought) and most recently am working on a treatment for their first feature). Now that I have seen more options open to me I have now returned to full time education while still staying actively involved. In fact one of my lecturers is a very successful film producer here in Ireland so I will be spending a lot of time with him over the next four years that's for sure. Networking is so important. Don't be afraid of keeping a little note book for contacts, it is of paramount importance. Be patient and keep all of your options open. Hope it works out for you.

sonic2810

have any of u worked on anything of note ???????

heeereees-jonny

hiya, i'm a Leaving Cert student who'd love to get into the film industry. i was just wondering where any out there did their film courses?? also, i've applied to IADT in Dun Laoghaire for their Film and Television Production course; i was wondering does anyone have any opinions on the course??

sonic2810

what do u want to do in the film industry

heeereees-jonny

um... haven't really decided...(hence film school...) I'd love to get into cinematography; I always thought that was really interesting and I'm a semi- amateur photographer already. I'd also love to direct but i haven't tried my hand at that yet. Hopefully i'll gain some experience of that during the course and realise if it is for me or not... But right now, I'm leaning towards the cinematography side of things...

Larianne

sonic2810 wrote: »

have any of u worked on anything of note ???????

Yeah.

Mensch Maschine

Hi everyone,

some great info here. I'm at a losss. I just finished a very practical media production course. I'm hoping to get into the film or photography industry. It's really difficult to figure out how and where to go next but the OP and Hugh_c gave some sound advice.

I've sent out my C.V. to alot of production companies not really sure as to how to go about it. I got one reply out of about thirty. I really can't go back a do a job that is not related to my interests. It is that that keeps me going.

The only tip I may be able to contribute is that if you get some extras work it's a great way to get right on to the bigger productions to soak in how things work at a glance. I reccomend people give it go if they can, to get a little taste of what it's like on set.

wishwashwoo

hi there i worked in the film industry in the 90s i was in props it was the best job in the world and the money was great i wish you all the best but you are going into an industry that is filled with back stabbers and people who would sell there mothers down the river for the next job i worked on a couple of things the boxer. kings in grass castles amoungst women the last september .then that was that notting after that i tought i would get a call notting it went a while before i bumped into a film crew in dublin all the guys who i had worked with were all on the job so i asked the prop master why i didnt get a call he said one of the guys i had worked with on another film said i had a drug problem and that i needed help so that was the end of that then and there i knew i would never work in the movies in ireland again i was upset for a while but for me it was a gift as now i am a sound engineer with 15 years experence and i am happy with that the guys i had worked with before are all just labours lifting furniture here and there so the morel of the story is the fiml world is ****

Mensch Maschine

****in hell.

Glad you found something your happy with.

Diogenes

wishwashwoo wrote: »

hi there i worked in the film industry in the 90s i was in props it was the best job in the world and the money was great

This, and;

and i am happy with that the guys i had worked with before are all just labours lifting furniture here and there so the morel of the story is the fiml world is ****

this, flat out contradict each other. So essentially 15 years ago it was the greatest job in the world but now it's "just labours". Fecks sake 90% of all jobs in the film industry are just about pretty simple tasks, you just need to be absolutely brilliant at doing them, be able to do them at a seconds notice, have impecciable timing, and a complete awareness of the hierarchy and complex behaviour that exists on a film set.

I'm sure as a veteran of the industry you're aware of the term "you're only as good as your last job".

Word of mouth is absolutely vital in the film industry, in such a small incestous freelancer industry someone can easily look at your credits and know someone who worked on that production. And you'd damned well know they'll call their mate on that production before they call your reference. I've gone into job interviews knowing that the person I'm speaking to has already spoken to a mutual aquantiance. I've lost out on jobs because of personality conflicts.

I'm not implying you have a drugs problem, or did anything wrong, you just need to be aware that a film set is a place with a rigid hierarchy, were a comment, a late turn up, a less than 100% performance, can screw you.

Look as you mentioned, but I assume you were either a standby by or dressing props. The basic principiles of the job aren't that complex, but they need those props in perfect condition, at a finger snap. You're not being paid well above the average industrial wage just because the film industry is generous, they expect you to execute your job flawlessly instantly and at inhospital hours. Thats why you got paid great money.

Diogenes

Mensch Maschine wrote: »

Hi everyone,

some great info here. I'm at a losss. I just finished a very practical media production course. I'm hoping to get into the film or photography industry. It's really difficult to figure out how and where to go next but the OP and Hugh_c gave some sound advice.

I've sent out my C.V. to alot of production companies not really sure as to how to go about it. I got one reply out of about thirty. I really can't go back a do a job that is not related to my interests. It is that that keeps me going.

Um obviously iftn.ie it has a "whats in production" section. Look specifically at the preproduction. The Union SIPTU has a chase list which they will post to you, and contains the name of the production manager, their e-mail, and production office, phone and fax.

If you can afford it, offer yourself for anything, including unpaid work experience for a week or two. It could lead to something maybe not on this production, but on the next one. You need to accept that you should engage in some shameless but polite and discreet self promotion.

Larianne

wishwashwoo wrote: »

hi there i worked in the film industry in the 90s i was in props it was the best job in the world and the money was great i wish you all the best but you are going into an industry that is filled with back stabbers and people who would sell there mothers down the river for the next job .....

Yes, I haven't personally experienced this but have seen it happen to a college friend. And the sad thing is she left the industry and the girl who spread rumours about her is doing very well in the industry. I left the industry myself as I didn't like the nature of it. I did a bit last summer after travelling for 2 years and I knew I just couldn't do it any more. Going back to college in September, whOOo!

Diogenes wrote: »

This... and this.. flat out contradict each other. So essentially 15 years ago it was the greatest job in the world but now it's "just labours".

I think he meant that they can't get jobs on productions any more and work as labourers, as there aren't many productions going?


Mensch Maschine, ring the production office. You have to politely annoy them.

Diogenes

Larianne wrote: »

Yes, I haven't personally experienced this but have seen it happen to a college friend. And the sad thing is she left the industry and the girl who spread rumours about her is doing very well in the industry. I left the industry myself as I didn't like the nature of it. I did a bit last summer after travelling for 2 years and I knew I just couldn't do it any more. Going back to college in September, whOOo!

Yeah and I think I addressed this when I said I'd experienced personal prejudice myself. You need to accept it as a natural biproduct of an industry where 10 people want every single job vacancy going.

I think he meant that they can't get jobs on productions any more and work as labourers, as there aren't many productions going?

Considering his shocking grammar and spelling either definition would be good. Also considering how the bottom fell out of our building market, I'm kinda incredulous that loads of prop guys walked into labouring jobs on sites.

Mensch Maschine, ring the production office. You have to politely annoy them.

If I could give another piece of advise, if you get the job, no one cares about your essay on Lars Von Triers V Robert Zemicks. Everyone on the crew loves film with a passion. It's just they turn up at work at 6am, work till 7pm and need to be up at 5am the next morning for 3 to 5 months. They really don't need to hear about whatever Hitchcock retrospective is going on in the IFSC. The people around you are passionate about film, theater and music, so passionate that the work in difficult locations, for stupidly long hours, they really don't need you to tell them about the editing in Jaws.

Diogenes

Larianne wrote: »

Yes, I haven't personally experienced this but have seen it happen to a college friend. .

Also respectively, I'd never make up **** about another member of the crew. I now live and work in the UK, and even in this enlarged work force, the idea is both morally offensive and professionally retarded. It's a fantastically small industry in the UK never mind Ireland, making such an unfounded accusation could hurt the person making it, worse than the person they accuse.

I'm not saying the accusation isn't completely baseless, but jesus, imagine lying and saying that to someone that their mutal work mate is a drug addict, and see how your own personal reputation would survive.


If you'd ever watched Donnie Brasco "this is Donnie he's a friend of mine/ours..." You'd understand how it works. If someone calls you and asks you would you recommend someone for a job and unless your praise is utterly enthusastic you know not to hire someone. You never hire the guy your mate recommends as "good", they have to be "brilliant".

Larianne

Diogenes wrote: »

Also respectively, I'd never make up **** about another member of the crew. I now live and work in the UK, and even in this enlarged work force, the idea is both morally offensive and professionally retarded. It's a fantastically small industry in the UK never mind Ireland, making such an unfounded accusation could hurt the person making it, worse than the person they accuse.

The UK industry is completely different to Ireland. USA also.

Diogenes, the tone in your posts are a bit harsh/defensive. I'm just putting my points out there as well having worked in the industry. Giving people a heads up on what to expect.

benl

great advice and thanks

im really intrested in working in the film industry but im not sure which section.

could someone please give a brief outline of each section and what you need for each one?

from reading this it seems not goin to college is the thing to do or at least do it part time.

has anyone any tips on which college is the best for full/part time?

also anyone know the best to start of working in the industry?

thanks in advance

wishwashwoo

hi all just want to say a few words about the movie business in ireland there are 2 groups of people who work in film crews in ireland.They are the people who will do anything and i mean anything to get there next job and there are the people who get the left overs personaly i would be in the left overs group much more down to earth people. the first group are made up of lots of wanabe movie makers who think the movie lives or dies by there hands when i worked on one movie in the 90s the back stabbing and the slagging was so bad that there were fights between guys off set on a weekly basis the sad thing about this is that the group 1 back stabbers are still working and all the others are not. if i was starting out in the movie business now i really would head off to the states or even bollywood. where at least there will be a good vibe on the sets. because here in ireland there are guys who think they are directors when all they are is props riggers painters standby props etc etc really and trully you dont need this crap in your life watching what and who you can and can not talk to for fear of never getting a job again personal i still feel very very bitter about what happened to me and if i ever see the guy who told tales about me well justs lets say ill give him a piece of my mind to round this post off steer well clear of the film industry in ireland any ways all the movies are moving on to other countrys who are much cheaper to produce movies lets see what all the movie buffs will do then p.s you know who you are

baileymay

i can only thank you from the bottom of my heart. i accidentally stumbled upon this and being a runner for some film production is EXACTLY what i was looking to do in my spare time while i study journalism. Im taking this as a sign from God. God bless you.

AFCNZ

I never imagined a car to be so vital. I hope to make a short after exams.