Atienza Kali in Inside Kung Fu

Musashi

Finally got to see the STAB clip and I've got a couple niggly questions about it.
It's a short promo clip so it focuses on the "sexy" side of the SD against blade,you've already got the arm and now your butting and kneeing like a good yoke to distract and disarm? possibly your attacker.
Fair enough but how in hell did knifer allow you to enter and take his arm?

Against a fool holding it straight armed pointed at you as a threat maybe.Try it on a Kali guy who's in a weapon retention position and waiting for an opening to cut you and I doubt it's that easy.The two on one arm grab/drag is generally reckoned to be the highest percentage defense,but against who?
A muppet using a knife as his physical presence isn't enough to make folks cough up the cash?

At one point the instructor in blue tee (Karl Tanswell?) was transitioning from one arm to the other as the knifer swapped hands.Knifer was in something like a FIST suit? Looked to me like he ran a good risk of being gutted really,and that was against a straight Sabre or Hammer grip,what if the blade was inverted? A turn of the wrist would allow knife guy to hook the thigh or lower abdomen.A knife isn't like a stick,it only has to touch you to cut you.

As Karl is entering to trap the arm,I haven't seen how he does it but I've seen Kali ,and Silat I think?, drills where the first power slash takes the arm off line.Along with the shearing of muscle from bone and trauma,the move opens a lane through for a thrust to the chest.If it's done accurately this is game over for the victim.

One of the lads made a point that it takes a while to bleed out from a knife wound.Not necessarily, exsanguination results in near instant death.Here's a table of times it takes from types of wounds inflicted.
Fairbairns Bleed Times Table

I've had to finish Deer using a knife and it's messy but very fast.A shot to the spinal column,like some of the hooking using a Kerambit,is probably as quick and not a good day for anyone.

To finish,how about a quote from W.E. Fairbairn from his manual on knife fighting.

The Author again wishes to go on record - IF YOU ARE UN-ARMED - "THERE IS NO DEFENCE AGAINST AN OPPONENT ATTACKING WITH A KNIFE".

Fairbairn Knife Fighting Manual Check the advice on this manual on defense against the knife "Attack the forearm and the wrist simultaneously. Do not attack the hand." and "Never go to the ground with an attacker". This is very similar to what I saw on Karls course clip!! When it's trained alive the only viable moves rise to the top whatever the generation.And you don't get much more alive than the original Commandoes of WWII.

I'd like to thank the guys at the disease .net for gathering so many old and rare texts in one place,I've seen him on various sites over the years hosting the stuff until the demand crashed his site.
It seems pretty stable at the minute,but if ye want to download the manuals and stuff give his site and bandwidth a chance so he doesn't get the same problems again.I'd imagine if you sent him some DVDs or CDs and a SAE he'd copy it for you and send it on,he's a decent guy.
There's a little something on there for everybody,from knife fighting manuals,treatise by Jim Grover on situational awareness,emergency and battlefield first aid,crime prevention it's a great resource for the kinds of people on forums like this one There's even some pressure point stuff Paul! Not had a good look at it yet but it's presented as the guy finds it,no editorialising,just the articles.

Ballisong

hi guys i am an FMA practitoner from galway and i have a couple of comments on what was shown in the clip. the end position where the instructor ends up on the guys arm although not ideal it is probably the best position if you feel more confident grappling with your attacker. My concern is how the instructor is getting to this position, on first contact when he grabes his attackers wrist although he may be keeping the knife away from any vital organs it is all to easy for the attacker to rotate the blade counter clockwise bringing the edge down on to the instructors arm cutting it. Although you are not likrly to die from this cut it will force you to release your grip, and all the attacker has to do is follow the line of the arm up to the neck which will present him with some lethal targets in that area i.e. Jugular, Middle Thyroid, Carotid and the Sub Clavian. It won't matter how you grab the attacker, one hand, two hands, left grabing left or left grabbing right, the attacker has to much leverage with the knife for any of these grabs to be effective. Coming from an offensive knife system this is one of the first things beginers are taught not to do, never grab the knife hand, and if you are holding a blade and you are grabbed our conditioned response would be to circle the blade and cut into the arm, even if grabbed with both hands it is quite simple to just stab the inside of his forearms to make him release his grip and anyone who attended the Sayoc Kali seminar in Galway this year would have seen all these demonstrated. You do not have to be an accomplished FMA to be able to do this it is quite possible that your attacker could cut you during the struggle by accident and still have the same effect. It is just as simple to tap the blade to that position with a cross hand parry and less likely to take a cut while doing it. I don't mean to critisise anyone teaching or learning this system, that it is not my intention, i am just pointing out a small flaw i saw in a small demo, i have not seen enough of this system to make a judgement on it, and i think it it commendable that the instructor is addressing the issue of knife attacks when so many people are burying their heads in the sand.

Dyr

Nice link Mushashi

"Scientific studies have shown that the recorded speed of a forward snap-type strike originating from waist-level is 5.7 to 9.8 meters per second, or approximately 19 to 32 feet per second. The hand reaches maximum speed shortly before the arm is fully extended, and travels faster on the return stroke than on the forward stroke.

Based on the above, it can be estimated that it takes one-sixth of a second or less to execute a snap-type knife strike. This assumes an average speed of 32 feet per second and a total distance of 62 inches.

Stress reaction time to any stimulus is approximately one-fifth of a second.

It is for the above reasons, among others, that we state there is no means by which an unarmed man can defend against a knife fighter"

Amen . knife=nightmare

BLUNT

Had a look at that clip and it was very interesting !!! Firstly I've been training in Thai and Indonesian systems for some time and youed never pull that stuff of at all.It's hard to judge a system ? by a video clip but you'ed have better chance in defending your self against a blade by a least studying
a system that has come from a battle field back ground.I know this will be the ole MMA v's old skool but,the likes of Thailand-Indonesia-Philli are all still
heavly bladed countries and not only that with the cities being so heavly populated ( like Jakarta-Indonesia ) it's never one on one.I'm not saying that I personaly have any,so called battlefield experience ( although I grew up in Belfast ) the majority of my teaching comes from people who fought the Japanese in WW 2.........with bladed weapon's.A lot of people are trying to re-invent the wheel......with out even,checking out the past or even trying to learn from some one with a past,in bladed art's.Like if I wanted to study boxing...I'ed get a ole guy with,a life time of knowledge in the ring.If I wanted to wrestle...I'ed go to an ole skool coach,with a life time on the matt.
So why are people alway's trying to make stuff up,with out studyen from the countries who still play !!! with the weapon's.............Jason O Ceallaigh :mad:

soma

Bambi wrote:

Nice link Mushashi

"Scientific studies have shown that the recorded speed of a forward snap-type strike originating from waist-level is 5.7 to 9.8 meters per second, or approximately 19 to 32 feet per second. The hand reaches maximum speed shortly before the arm is fully extended, and travels faster on the return stroke than on the forward stroke.

Based on the above, it can be estimated that it takes one-sixth of a second or less to execute a snap-type knife strike. This assumes an average speed of 32 feet per second and a total distance of 62 inches.

Stress reaction time to any stimulus is approximately one-fifth of a second.

It is for the above reasons, among others, that we state there is no means by which an unarmed man can defend against a knife fighter"

Amen . knife=nightmare

Absolutely - I was trying to defend against snap cuts the other night and it is just an absolute nightmare. I think it's almost safe to say that if you come up against a trained knife fighter who is intent on doing you damage, and you cant run away, you're pretty much boned.

Kev

Just wait until he has stabbed you, then grab the wrist.

john kavanagh

just a short promo clip lads...

hey musashi i'll get karl to go through this at the seminar, remember you weren't too sure about BJJ either till a small girl got you in a postion where she could've broke your arm so have a little faith...

so have a little faith...

Faith doesnt fit into aliveness John. Someone hasnt being reading the gospel of Matthew


Sorry couldnt resist.