why can't the irish pronounce TH's

county

why can't the irish pronounce TH's except for posh people is it a class thing or what,three[tree] thunder[tunder]??

simu

Because that sound does not exist in Irish so not pronouncing it became a feature of Hiberno-English

pickarooney

Why can't Londoners pronounce 'TH' ?

Tar.Aldarion

county wrote:

why can't the irish pronounce TH's except for posh people is it a class thing or what,three[tree] thunder[tunder]??

luckilymost people i know can pronounce th

Kingsize

shouldnt that be free & Funder???

county

pickarooney wrote:

Why can't Londoners pronounce 'TH' ?

thats for another days debate my friend

Pigman II

I think the classic word that really trips Irish people up is 'film'.

Invariably we pronounce it 'fil-im' when it should be said along the lines of 'fill-mm'

With regard to the 'th' I thought you were going to point out that we use words like 'dis' 'dat' and 'de other'. I know personally I'm always pronouncing the worth 'birthday' as 'bUrthday'.

But hey de English demselves can't even use-a de lingo proper so why shUd we?

Mossy Monk

i must be mega posh then as i pronounce them
oh wait i'm not posh at all

PunyHuman

Another example of this is the pronunciation by some Dubliners of the word 'throat' as 'troath'. Also 'bathroom' becomes 'battroom'.

God love us

dSTAR

Pigman II wrote:

But hey de English demselves can't even use-a de lingo proper so why shUd we?

I find that a very telling statement. It is interesting that the original post was about how the Irish cannot pronounce certain words yet the English are dragged into the argument as some kind of lame excuse.

That smacks to me of the worst kind of post colonial thinking. What exactly have the English got to do with Irish people not being able to speak properly?

It reminds me a funny sign I saw hanging on someones bedroom door which read:

Why should I tidy my room when the world is such a mess.

What a cop out. Classic victim mentality!

chillywilly

actually i think bathroom is just 'ba-room'

Pigman II

dSTAR wrote:

yet the English are dragged into the argument

Erm, maybe because the language is called 'English'? :rolleyes:

My point (before you started droning on about post-colonial victim-mentality yada yada) was to point out that no nation (not even the English themselves) really speaks the language in it's correct form and that we the Irish shouldn't be condemned because of the way we speak it. It wasn't an excuse, merely an observation.

You're far too touchy methinks. Either that or perhaps you're just going through a post-victimisation state of 'enlightenment' a.t.m.

munkeehaven

Invariably we pronounce it 'fil-im' when it should be said along the lines of 'fill-mm'

i say fil-um

i must admit that i am guilty of not pronouncing my "th's"
i also forget my "t's" aswell so i say fa for fat or tha for that
its fun though to notice how everyone has their own unique way of speaking

Gurgle

county wrote:

why can't the irish pronounce TH's except for posh people is it a class thing or what,three[tree] thunder[tunder]??

Its a Dublin thing.
They're pretty much West-Britts anyway.

Most of us pronounce th's perfectly well thank you.

monkeyfudge

I'm guilty of never pronoucing the 'g' in the word 'eight'

Actually... I'm not sure if I'm pronoucing the 'h' or the 'i' or the 'e' either.

Gurgle

monkeyfudge wrote:

I'm guilty of never pronoucing the 'g' in the word 'eight'

Actually... I'm not sure if I'm pronoucing the 'h' or the 'i' or the 'e' either.

You pronounce 'eight' as 't' ?

monkeyfudge

Gurgle wrote:

You pronounce 'eight' as 't' ?

Well I'm pretty sure I'm not pronouncing any of the other letters....

it is a rather silly word when you think about it...

el tel

While some Irish people pronounce 'three' as 'tree' it just dosen't sound quite as ignorant as when some English people pronounce 'th' as 'f' which is just poor diction.

How about getting one of these English people to say
"There are thirty thousand feathers on a thrush"

cringeworthy for sure.

Bob Bogart

Its better than turning it nto an F (eg. Thanks = Fanks) like the Londoners. if you ask me Tanks is better than Fanks.

Sleipnir

You always get variations of pronunciation, especially with a language as widely-spoken as english. I'm fairly tolerant of it but one I can't stand is country folk who pronounce "advertisments"
as either
"advertizzzment"
"adver-ties-ment"

The "tis" is short but I can't spell it out!

Mis-pronunciation often becomes the actual word.
For example, the word "bird" comes from "birdies" which was originally "bridies"
But through rampant mis-pronunciation the incorrect way became the
norm.

How long before before you'll annoy people by saying "crisps" instead of "crips" ??!!

Gegerty

county wrote:

why can't the irish pronounce TH's except for posh people is it a class thing or what,three[tree] thunder[tunder]??

Because thats our accent. Accent has got nothing to with whether you can speak the language properly or not. Every region on the planet has a different accent.

People who say things like "I done a runner" or "He does be wrecking me head" or "Ah jasus me fannys scratchy" are examples of not speaking proper English.

Kingsize

i used to hang around with a kid from coventry when i was about 10 he was nicknamed "fings" cos of the way he pronounced his "th"

Exit

What's all this about proper English? It's all proper English, it's just constantly evolving is all.

dSTAR

Pigman II wrote:

You're far too touchy methinks. Either that or perhaps you're just going through a post-victimisation state of 'enlightenment' a.t.m.

I think that the post was referring to english as a race not as the language is spoken.

And no I am not defending my inner englishman!

derek27

well 'vis' 'fred' has been ciculating 'frew' the latest posts quite a bit lately. i'm only reading it because 'ver' is little else happening on boards at 'vis' time.

cut to it. what strikes me is that irish people have a better qualification in the english language than english people. we have a greater vocabulay and a better undestanding of the proper grammatical use of the language... possibly because it is a compulsory leaving cert subject here. check that out.

jcoote

say what u like about the irish but we have the vocabulary,personality and wit to express ourselves better than any other nation on earth...if an irish person is annoyed with u u will cry and if they love u or are happy with u u will smile...pronounciation doesn't come into it when u are dealing with expression!

Ruu_Old

Irish dont pronounce 'th and Americans dont pronouce the h in herbs I still pronounce the h here, fighting the power

Dizzyblabla

I remember learning the phrases in school:
This, That, These and Those, this is the way the T-H goes!

and (I can't believe I actually remember this but..)
My thread is too thick, my thread is too thin, so this is the thing we shall do, we shall go and ask mother to give us another and with it a thimble too!

now, everyone try and say it while pronouncing all their th's!!

Zaphod

Pigman II wrote:

I think the classic word that really trips Irish people up is 'film'.

Invariably we pronounce it 'fil-im' when it should be said along the lines of 'fill-mm'

The extra vowel is called an epenthetic vowel. It's essentially a 'helper vowel' which makes the word flow more easily. It's a hang-over from Irish (guta cúnta) similar to the inability to pronounce 'th'. An example in Irish is 'gorm' (blue) which is pronounced 'gorum'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_orthography#The_epenthetic_vowel

Prof. Terry Dolan's site is very good on all aspects of Hiberno-English.
www.hiberno-english.com

dSTAR

Ruu wrote:

Irish dont pronounce 'th and Americans dont pronouce the h in herbs I still pronounce the h here, fighting the power

Funny you should mention that. I was just chatting about that exact point recently. I think it is because you say "an herbal remedy" as opposed to "a herbal remedy". Saying it the first way sounds too much of a mouthful if you pronounce it with an H! English language grads/experts correct me if I am wrong here.

NotMe

Dizzyblabla wrote:

I remember learning the phrases in school:
This, That, These and Those, this is the way the T-H goes!

and (I can't believe I actually remember this but..)
My thread is too thick, my thread is too thin, so this is the thing we shall do, we shall go and ask mother to give us another and with it a thimble too!

now, everyone try and say it while pronouncing all their th's!!

My tread is too tick, my tread is too tin, so dis is the ting we shall do, we shall go and ask mudder to giver us anudder and wit it a timble too!


I just can't pronounce 'th'! Even though my mam is from London (she pronounces 'thing' not 'fing' ) I remember once my granny saying that we (me and my brothers) should learn 'proper' pronounciation so that our English relatives will be able to understand us when we go visit them. :rolleyes: