Do you use creatine?

BossArky

Do you support or denounce the use of creatine to gain weight/muscle for various reasons?

3 people I know:

- One took it to get bigger and stronger for rugby

- The second took it to get bigger and stronger for soccer

- The third just takes it so that he can bulk up from gym work, he dosen't do it specifically for any other sporting reason.

Personally I would not bother with it and perfer to go the normal way. Anyway, populate the poll.

joc_06

Na, thought about it for ages and even bought some but didnt take it. Being honest i had very little training done at the time and as soon as i trained hard i saw some good results and i still am seeing good results. Maybe if i do hit a wall i might think about it again

kluivert

Poison

Anyone Who Takes That Will See Good Improvements And Will Be Brain Dead To Enjoy It

Kevin_rc_ie

Lol. i don't and haven't used it. I'm familar with a few people that do it. AFAIK, all professional atheltes take this or something similar. I don't think the side effects are any where as dramatic as the above poster has implied. Of course I'm not a qualified healthcare practioneer so i'm hardly an expert. it's not a big deal i don't think.

MisterAnarchy

I took it for 2 months and to be honest I didnt notice any difference in my strength.
I didnt have any dehydration probs with it.
Felt fine.
I also took Nitric Oxide and Glutamine.
Most supplements are rubbish.
I didnt gain much muscle and I followed a very good workout routine.
I am gonna start a new plan soon so hopefully the Creatine will work.

Easygainer

BossArky wrote:

Do you support or denounce the use of creatine to gain weight/muscle for various reasons?

3 people I know:

- One took it to get bigger and stronger for rugby

- The second took it to get bigger and stronger for soccer

- The third just takes it so that he can bulk up from gym work, he dosen't do it specifically for any other sporting reason.

Personally I would not bother with it and perfer to go the normal way. Anyway, populate the poll.

:rolleyes: Do you think they took it to floss their teeth??? What is the "normal" way? Creatine is not hormonal, it's an amino acid found in meat. There is creatine in red meat and chicken.

Time to rant... What the hell is wrong with a supplement actually doing what it's supposed to? What is wrong with performance enhancement? Caffeine improves performance, but so does extra sleep. Why should people not be allowed to take what they can within the limits of safety and sanity? Here is where I will get more controversial, but this is why I find it abhorrent that steroids are banned and viewed as cheating... Is the student who takes caffeine tablets or modafinil to stay up later and work harder a cheat? Is it cheating to use available technologies (like computers) to improve performance in the workplace? No, so why should it be frowned upon to increase sports performance safely. [There have been less than 100 deaths related to steroids in the USA between 1955 and 1995, yet each year there are 75,000 alcohol deaths and over 100,000 tobacco deaths, yet these are legal...]

The point I'm getting at is why are people so mistrusting of creatine? Some ignorant morons got it into their head that it has side effects - show me this study please, because of the 100s I've seen, including long term usage, not ONE side effect has been reported - no increased aggression, no kidney problems...nothing.

I will take anyone on on this point.

BossArky

Easygainer wrote:

:rolleyes: Do you think they took it to floss their teeth??? What is the "normal" way?

Time to rant...

Chill the beans.

Perhaps I was unclear. Instead of "normal" I should have used "natural", i.e. no supplements.

I don't see the point in taking creatine for a period of time to gain weight or muscle, then shrinking like a balloon should I stop. That is my point of view and I was interested to see what the results of the above poll would be on a forum such as this.

kasintahan

I take 3 grams a day (very little) with 30g dextrose.

That said I don't eat meat, so other than the small amount of creatine produced by our own bodies I don't get it from anywhere else.

10/10

i have taken Creating for a wile but have not seen any affect on my training or gain what so ever.

It realy depends on the person and the body by some creatin works by some not, I'm not to mad that I'm in the last category

joc_06

If taken correctly ie right times, right product, mixed with the right stuff and number 1 mixed with the right training/rest regime creatine will WORK, whatever that means.
It will add strength and mass which can result in speed gains.
Its scientifically proven to. It doesnt depend on body type. if it doesnt work it hints at poor training/diet/rest

Easygainer

BossArky wrote:

Chill the beans.

Perhaps I was unclear. Instead of "normal" I should have used "natural", i.e. no supplements.

I don't see the point in taking creatine for a period of time to gain weight or muscle, then shrinking like a balloon should I stop. That is my point of view and I was interested to see what the results of the above poll would be on a forum such as this.

So is red meat not natural? (If I wanted to take it even further, are your own hormones not natural, but I'll stick to creatine...). Creatine is an amino acid that is found in muscle tissue. Without ATP we couldn;t have the Kreb's cycle, we couldn;t have enerygy or endurance. So why not supplement with it if you are into sports?

Secondly, you are clearly confusing it with steroids with the notion that you blow up while "on" creatine, and shrink after. You gain solid muscle with some water retention on creatine, but after the water goes, you are still left with the muscle provided you eat enough calories. With steroids, you get a hormonal crash after cessation which is why some people shrink - the proper protocol is to take post cycle therapy drugs to bring back natural testosterone which would prevent this, so any idiot who takes them without knowing this deserves that crash (It leaves you temporarily with the testosterone levels of a nine year old girl if you don't come off properly...)

Next time you start a thread, please try and understand this topic. This damn EU directive is as a result of people possibly meaning well but understanding little, which is a very dangerous combination and poses a serious threat to our liberties.

Corksham

I've seen, including long term usage, not ONE side effect has been reported - no increased aggression, no kidney problems...nothing.

I will take anyone on on this point.[/QUOTE]

BossArky

Easygainer wrote:

So is red meat not natural? (If I wanted to take it even further, are your own hormones not natural, but I'll stick to creatine...). Creatine is an amino acid that is found in muscle tissue. Without ATP we couldn;t have the Kreb's cycle, we couldn;t have enerygy or endurance. So why not supplement with it if you are into sports?

You know exactly what I mean when I started this thread / poll. It wasn't to get into some in depth arguement about the technicalities of creatine and whether it is wrong or right to take it. There is no wrong or right. I just stated my opinion and obviously you got a creatine fueled queen bee in your bonnet.

Easygainer wrote:

Secondly, you are clearly confusing it with steroids with the notion that you blow up while "on" creatine, and shrink after. You gain solid muscle with some water retention on creatine, but after the water goes, you are still left with the muscle provided you eat enough calories. With steroids, you get a hormonal crash after cessation which is why some people shrink - the proper protocol is to take post cycle therapy drugs to bring back natural testosterone which would prevent this, so any idiot who takes them without knowing this deserves that crash (It leaves you temporarily with the testosterone levels of a nine year old girl if you don't come off properly...)

I am not confusing creatine with steriods, merely relaying info that has been passed onto me from various people I know who have used it at one time or another. The person I mentioned in the original post who played rugby is now pretty tubby having stopped and cannot loose the bulk which turned to fat. Another friend from Uni could bench press something well over 100kg but lost all power when stopping the creatine.

Easygainer wrote:

Next time you start a thread, please try and understand this topic. This damn EU directive is as a result of people possibly meaning well but understanding little, which is a very dangerous combination and poses a serious threat to our liberties.

Haha, I think you've lost the plot here^^. I posted a poll & don't intend to argue, just seek peoples opinions.

RonanC

BossArky wrote:

The person I mentioned in the original post who played rugby is now pretty tubby having stopped and cannot loose the bulk which turned to fat.

I don't wish to be offensive, but this is the kind of perpetuating garbage which fuels the ignorant mythology surrounding creatine.

Before you castigate creatine any further, some basic understanding of human physiology wouldn't go amiss. For starters, "bulk" doesn't magically turn to fat. Whatever your friend gained was either water, fat or muscle, all of which are mutually exclusive.

BossArky

Non-Creatine 10-9 Creatine

drdre

i was thinking of using it but i have read bad reviews about it so i would never take it:)

Easygainer

BossArky wrote:

You know exactly what I mean when I started this thread / poll. It wasn't to get into some in depth arguement about the technicalities of creatine and whether it is wrong or right to take it. There is no wrong or right. I just stated my opinion and obviously you got a creatine fueled queen bee in your bonnet.



I am not confusing creatine with steriods, merely relaying info that has been passed onto me from various people I know who have used it at one time or another. The person I mentioned in the original post who played rugby is now pretty tubby having stopped and cannot loose the bulk which turned to fat. Another friend from Uni could bench press something well over 100kg but lost all power when stopping the creatine.



Haha, I think you've lost the plot here^^. I posted a poll & don't intend to argue, just seek peoples opinions.

I'm not taking creatine at the moment, thanks. Muscle = muscle, fat = fat. Muscle cannot turn into fat no more than lead can turn into gold - please, don't make a fool of yourself any more than you have done.

Put it this way. If I exercised every day for 2 months, then stopped but still ate the same amount of food, what do you think would happen? That is what happened your "friend".

BossArky

Easygainer wrote:

I'm not taking creatine at the moment, thanks. Muscle = muscle, fat = fat. Muscle cannot turn into fat no more than lead can turn into gold - please, don't make a fool of yourself any more than you have done.

Put it this way. If I exercised every day for 2 months, then stopped but still ate the same amount of food, what do you think would happen? That is what happened your "friend".

Pretty highly strung there.... I suppose this is due to a vested interest in selling your stocks of creatine :rolleyes: Relax I couldn't care less what you do with it.

"friend" ???
fool ???

tribulus

I use creatine every gym day - 5g x 3times a week

there are many misconceptions about poor old creatine, it just wants to help

it is a supplement so it should only supplement an already good diet/training routine. It might allow you to push yourself that little bit harder in the gym, thus stimulating growth, but no amount of "wonder drugs" such as creatine :rolleyes: will be solely responsible for ones progress.

as for side effects, many of these rumours i've heard stem from the big rugby schools:

guy in rugby match, gets hit by a bad tackle, breaks jaw
happens to be taking creatine at the time
therefore creatine responsible for weaking of cheek bones*

*actually heard this :eek:

Easygainer

BossArky wrote:

Pretty highly strung there.... I suppose this is due to a vested interest in selling your stocks of creatine :rolleyes: Relax I couldn't care less what you do with it.

"friend" ???
fool ???

Yeah that's it. Look, you've been shown not to have a clue what you're talking about; your idea for a poll was innocent enough but once you gave your opinion and version of facts I had to intervene. Your knowledge of supplements, physiology, diet and training is awful. I have forgotten more than you know. Please, don't add to the misconceptions on supplements and actually read up on them yourself.

Cake Fiend

BossArky wrote:

I don't see the point in taking creatine for a period of time to gain weight or muscle, then shrinking like a balloon should I stop.

As already outlined above, you don't understand how creatine works. Creatine is a natural substance, it exists right now in your muscles. If you take creatine powder, you're supplementing your existing supply, just like taking vitamin tablets supplements your regular vitamin intake.

To put it simply, creatine won't make you grow on its own, above higher water retention, it will only let your muscles work longer without running out of energy. More work = more gain. Stopping creatine supplementing is not going to make this muscle disappear.

I used to take creatine for karate (I could do more repetitions of techniques without getting tired), it had nothing whatsoever to do with bulking up. And I don't see anything wrong with supplementing creatine for bodybuilding.

People who know what they're talking about: few
People who don't, but think they do: many

joc_06

BossArky wrote:

I suppose this is due to a vested interest in selling your stocks of creatine :rolleyes:

This aint good man. you dont know him. A very good helpful guy.
You shouldnt be tarring his rep for absolutely no reason.

Sometimes its hard to change attitudes of ppl who've grown up on tales of weights making you fat and slow. Creatine is the devil. Football is the devil etc
Thats why guys try so hard to make you see the actual truth.
And still ppl dont believe. Your loss tbh

BossArky

Well, I have no intention of escalating the debate further.

BossArky wrote:

That is my point of view and I was interested to see what the results of the above poll would be on a forum such as this

Thanks for the feedback.

Easygainer

Sico wrote:

As already outlined above, you don't understand how creatine works. Creatine is a natural substance, it exists right now in your muscles. If you take creatine powder, you're supplementing your existing supply, just like taking vitamin tablets supplements your regular vitamin intake.

To put it simply, creatine won't make you grow on its own, above higher water retention, it will only let your muscles work longer without running out of energy. More work = more gain. Stopping creatine supplementing is not going to make this muscle disappear.

I used to take creatine for karate (I could do more repetitions of techniques without getting tired), it had nothing whatsoever to do with bulking up. And I don't see anything wrong with supplementing creatine for bodybuilding.

People who know what they're talking about: few
People who don't, but think they do: many

You've hit the nail on the head. Creatine is, IMO, probably better for endurance sports than power sports because of its effect on ATP production. 90% of top tennis players use it, all cyclists use it (among other things) etc etc. The water bloat is minimal and I'm sure natural diuretics like dandelion extract would work fine to stop this.

Raiser

Easygainer wrote:

:rolleyes: Do you think they took it to floss their teeth??? What is the "normal" way? Creatine is not hormonal, it's an amino acid found in meat. There is creatine in red meat and chicken.

Time to rant... What the hell is wrong with a supplement actually doing what it's supposed to? What is wrong with performance enhancement? Caffeine improves performance, but so does extra sleep. Why should people not be allowed to take what they can within the limits of safety and sanity? Here is where I will get more controversial, but this is why I find it abhorrent that steroids are banned and viewed as cheating... Is the student who takes caffeine tablets or modafinil to stay up later and work harder a cheat? Is it cheating to use available technologies (like computers) to improve performance in the workplace? No, so why should it be frowned upon to increase sports performance safely. [There have been less than 100 deaths related to steroids in the USA between 1955 and 1995, yet each year there are 75,000 alcohol deaths and over 100,000 tobacco deaths, yet these are legal...]

The point I'm getting at is why are people so mistrusting of creatine? Some ignorant morons got it into their head that it has side effects - show me this study please, because of the 100s I've seen, including long term usage, not ONE side effect has been reported - no increased aggression, no kidney problems...nothing.

I will take anyone on on this point.

Easygainer - this was your FIRST post.....Why so reactionary and agressive without any obvious stimulus? This man is obviously curious and wanted to hear some opinions - seems to me that you unleashed on him without any good reason.

Also just because a substance is natural/occurs naturally in the body, it doesn't automatically follow that it is going to be a good idea OR safe to take X amount as a supplement. Sugar occurs naturally in nature via beet or cane - and is essential in our bodies - start getting too much and you're risking how many undesirable side-effects?

People used to take arsenic as a supplement in bygone times - there were no studies around back then to suggest that this was bad practice. Just because theres no PROOF that creatine can have undesirable side-effects doesn't mean that it doesn't - and thats a fact, no matter HOW many articles or whatever you have studied/read/pinned on your gym wall.

Our bodies have evolved and been honed over millions of years - our diets reflect what we are in many ways - what makes you think that its ok to take XYZ out of nature in a lab, put it in a white tub and add it to your diet? Seems to be that if you venture into this territory you are a pioneer who MAY suffer in breaking this new ground. Who knows, perhaps an adidas colostomy bag?

Studies have linked over-consumption of red meat with intestinal cancer etc. All life on our planet depends on the sun, which IS nature - yet even the sun will give you cancer when your body gets too much of it...Is it natural to ingest this stuff? Why not train hard and eat selectively/carefully? We have so many naturally occuring foodstuffs around us - why should we have to resort to these supplements no matter what they consist of?

- Finally I don't think our sports people should have to inject **** into their veins to perform, excel and do themselves and their fans proud - I feel sorry for the guy that had dreams of succeeding, worked hard to attain those dreams and then got beaten by some W*N*ER who collects his gold medal and then goes for a 10 mile jog to unwind straight away cause he's been injecting ZtoSSer(c) into his scrotum.

When do you think sports people should start this? Will we give primary school children a little cooler bag with a starter pack of syringes or something? Or just tell them not to train or eat carefully - "kid you can have some steroids when you turn 18 - now go do 12 laps of Playstation 6"

Easygainer

Raiser wrote:

Easygainer - this was your FIRST post.....Why so reactionary and agressive without any obvious stimulus? This man is obviously curious and wanted to hear some opinions - seems to me that you unleashed on him without any good reason.

Also just because a substance is natural/occurs naturally in the body, it doesn't automatically follow that it is going to be a good idea OR safe to take X amount as a supplement. Sugar occurs naturally in nature via beet or cane - and is essential in our bodies - start getting too much and you're risking how many undesirable side-effects?

People used to take arsenic as a supplement in bygone times - there were no studies around back then to suggest that this was bad practice. Just because theres no PROOF that creatine can have undesirable side-effects doesn't mean that it doesn't - and thats a fact, no matter HOW many articles or whatever you have studied/read/pinned on your gym wall.

Our bodies have evolved and been honed over millions of years - our diets reflect what we are in many ways - what makes you think that its ok to take XYZ out of nature in a lab, put it in a white tub and add it to your diet? Seems to be that if you venture into this territory you are a pioneer who MAY suffer in breaking this new ground. Who knows, perhaps an adidas colostomy bag?

Studies have linked over-consumption of red meat with intestinal cancer etc. All life on our planet depends on the sun, which IS nature - yet even the sun will give you cancer when your body gets too much of it...Is it natural to ingest this stuff? Why not train hard and eat selectively/carefully? We have so many naturally occuring foodstuffs around us - why should we have to resort to these supplements no matter what they consist of?

- Finally I don't think our sports people should have to inject **** into their veins to perform, excel and do themselves and their fans proud - I feel sorry for the guy that had dreams of succeeding, worked hard to attain those dreams and then got beaten by some W*N*ER who collects his gold medal and then goes for a 10 mile jog to unwind straight away cause he's been injecting ZtoSSer(c) into his scrotum.

When do you think sports people should start this? Will we give primary school children a little cooler bag with a starter pack of syringes or something? Or just tell them not to train or eat carefully - "kid you can have some steroids when you turn 18 - now go do 12 laps of Playstation 6"

Again, you have no clue what you are talking about and it is this attitude that I am maligned to. For instance, you think steroids are taken intravenously when they are taken intramuscularly. Secondly, you have some illusion that top sports people don't all take drugs, or whatever they can get away with - again this is naive. Look up designer steroids, and other designer drugs and you'll realise just how easy it is to evade these tests. It is far fairer in my opinion to allow these ergogenic aids than ban them and have a massive bias against 3rd world athletes by having US athletes trained in multi multi million dollar centres, sleep in hydrobaric chambers, take intravenous vitamin c, have massages every night etc etc


Secondly, sugar occurs in beet. We are not plants, we are humans. Granted though you cannot take creatine til it comes out your ears, that would just be stupid and irresponsible, but eh law doesn't need to protect these people - they'd harm themselves anyway. For instance, 11,000 people die in the states every year from taking too much aspirin - this is abuse and not proper usage of a benign substance though. You can die by drinking too much water, but to do so you'd have to be stupid and determined and probably deserve to die.

Thirdly, to analogise creatine to arsenic is simply idiotic. In Victorian times they had a gung ho attitude to progress, without concern for safety. Today, everything is subjected to scrutinous tests before we ever see it on a shelf. Creatine is the most researched supplement in the world, yet not one test has shown it to be detrimental - in my book, that speaks volumes for its safety.

Fourthly, the idea that everything we need is out there in nature is just desperate. That is akin to saying our brains should be better than a computer because they are natural, yet computers are a damn sight faster at 99.9% of things our brains can do. It is an insult to human evolution and intelligence to suppose that we cannot improve on what nature has given us - creatine supplementation is only a drop in the ocean here. We have made more potent proteins, genetically modified crops that are better and safer than normal crops etc etc. Finally, that point about over consumption of red meat is only hampered by the fact that external creatine consumption eliminates the need for excessive red meat consumption to get enough creatine.

As for my response to Boss Arky, it was because of his blatant ignorance on the topic and his presentation of complete lies as facts - eg that you blow up on creatine and shrink and get fat after, which I have torn apart.

BossArky

Easygainer wrote:

As for my response to Boss Arky, it was because of his blatant ignorance on the topic and his presentation of complete lies as facts - blah blah

I didn't swear by anything just relaying what I heard and double checking on forums such as this to see what the status quo is.

Easygainer wrote:

I have forgotten more than you know

considerate communication skills obviously


Totally off topic --> I could take you up on the whole forgotten more than you know topic. A ridiculous statement deserves a riducolus hammering. Good luck Easygainer

joc_06

BossArky wrote:

I could take you up on the whole forgotten more than you know topic. A ridiculous statement deserves a riducolus hammering.

From reading the above id say that statement by EG is very generous to you.

Blut

I've gotta chime in my agreement too, for someone whos been proved to have been completely wrong youre very agumentative BossArky. EG generally knows his stuff.

BossArky

An interesting fact I read earlier:

Some time ago the Athletico Bilbao football team did some creatine tests. They divided a bunch of players into 2 groups, filling one group with creatine for 6 days, the other group no creatine. A the end of the 6 days they performed a number of tests...the group with creatine performed much better, sprints, etc.

If so, do all professional footballers supplement with creatine? If not, isn't this an unfair advantage?

zAbbo

Its not banned by the major football bodies (fifa etc.) so its open to everyone to use.

Those test by AB, were based on short sprints eg 50-60m metres, In which they were was an improvement over non creatine using players.(training)

I've seen little evidence to show what impact this has in a 90min game of football.

The main reason footballers take it is so they can train harder, there is little information on it being taken to improve match performance(do you see the difference here?).

The biggest performance booster in games would be water/sports drinks to combat the depletion of glycogen(carb fuel)

Maybe EG knows more, but not everyone responds to Creatine(non-responders?) also the bodies natural production of amino acid reduces while taking creatine.

Those are possibly wrong though

Coney Island

I used to take creatine a few years ago, maybe 2-3 cycles per year. Usually only for 3 weeks at the time but in high doses (something like 27-30 grams per day the first week and 15 g/day the following two...a lot I know!).

I could see improvements, but then again it would last only for the period I was taking it (usually before going on holiday, just to look cool in a tight t-shirt).

Never had any problem with it, although I have to reckon that I was very nervous in general and had to go to the toilette more than usual

This was 5-6 years ago, now I still train in the gym but only take protein powder and arginine, although I plan to start a creatine cycle as soon as I get back from an injury i got playing soccer.

Easygainer

BossArky wrote:

If so, do all professional footballers supplement with creatine? If not, isn't this an unfair advantage?

I'd say it's encouraging that it worked, unlike half the crap out there. You wouldn't believe how many supplements line the shelves of unscrupulous vendors that do absolutely nothing...

I also think (and this isn't personal against you) that you're a victim of the media propaganda that performance enhancing agents in sports are bad... The way I see it, it's a small step towards ironing out genetic inequities. That's why I'm pro drugs in sports - it would even the playing field up and contra to what many believe they aren't prohibitively expensive - fancy training facilities and the first world luxury of being able to afford high altitude facilities and hydrobaric chambers, sports psychiatrists etc etc is far more unfair.

kstanl

In fairness Easygainer, there are some pretty bad side-effects to creatine and other supplements. Even pure protein supplements. Hell, even too much vitamin C is bad! It's all about quantifying and moderation. Is creating bad? No! For bodybulding it's excellent but you don't need more than a gram a day no matter what anyone tells you. Are steroids bad? No... as long as you've had them measured for you and they're equated for your lifestyle, physique and genetic make-up. Which can be pretty expensive. Listening to muscleheads in the gym and buying gear off them, you can end up with a damaged liver. Just be sure that you know what the hell you're doing.

Don't bother taking creating unless you're very healthy and you're willing to put in the same effort to your diet, lifestyle and training as you are to believe that it will make a difference!

PS - I wasn't preaching to you, EG, I know you know your stuff. Just a general rant

PPS - creating is spelt "creatine"... I've had a few scoops so excuse the spelling.

PPS - training means you can't handle your booze as well as you use to. Oh dear.

poobum

kstanl wrote:

In fairness Easygainer, there are some pretty bad side-effects to creatine and other supplements. Even pure protein supplements. Hell, even too much vitamin C is bad! It's all about quantifying and moderation. Is creating bad? No! For bodybulding it's excellent but you don't need more than a gram a day no matter what anyone tells you. Are steroids bad? No... as long as you've had them measured for you and they're equated for your lifestyle, physique and genetic make-up. Which can be pretty expensive. Listening to muscleheads in the gym and buying gear off them, you can end up with a damaged liver. Just be sure that you know what the hell you're doing.

Don't bother taking creating unless you're very healthy and you're willing to put in the same effort to your diet, lifestyle and training as you are to believe that it will make a difference!

PS - I wasn't preaching to you, EG, I know you know your stuff. Just a general rant

PPS - creating is spelt "creatine"... I've had a few scoops so excuse the spelling.

PPS - training means you can't handle your booze as well as you use to. Oh dear.

that gram a day thing is not true! it can depnd on the person in the end some people because of their genetics or diets do not need as much and some because of their diets need more some peoples bodies naturally produce more or their intake throught food is low or high or whatever etc...(my body creates alot of it so i was told so i never realy need it or only in smal doses) your muscles have a limit to their retention if they are already at max capacity naturally(ment from your diet not implying creatine is not natural) then you will not need it and you will not benefit from it you will be the same on it as off it more or less...i think! correct if wrong!

poobum

BossArky wrote:

Pretty highly strung there.... I suppose this is due to a vested interest in selling your stocks of creatine :rolleyes: Relax I couldn't care less what you do with it.

"friend" ???
fool ???

dude way to far! you started this poll inncoently looking for opinions(or so i believe) but you ended up being a fool! this was to personal! he correct what you stated and were wrong! this was a low blow! no need for it! and so what if he does sell it! he sells good stuff at good prices!! to be honest i consider him good for providing this service! savs me buying in stuff from american and paying even more for the same price! he also gives good sound advice! why take a stab at him?

tribulus

have to agree with poobum - anyone who's trying to break the trend of rip-off supplement prices in ireland gets a thumbs up from me

johnnyc

i have used creatine mainly to get fit and strong for football. I have found many benefits especially in strenght and recovery. I gain a good bit of muscle and strenght from it?

joejoem

I have one thing to say about this thread.



Meooowwwww.

Easygainer

tribulus wrote:

have to agree with poobum - anyone who's trying to break the trend of rip-off supplement prices in ireland gets a thumbs up from me

Cheers!!! I'll have my website up soon. Just got even better news though - there's no VAT payable on protein (and milk based products) so now that I've registered my business I can keep my prices low. I'm delighted cos I was worried I'd have to add on a bit!

Anyone who's been to the states or is aware of the major discount sites knows how competitive it is in America. I wish it were that competitive here, but hopefully others will catch on... until then I'll fly the flag!