Ulster's Dominance in Football

Lemlin

A few of you may argue with me but I think that this year's Championship again shows the dominance of Ulster football. You may argue that the All-Ireland final was contested by Connacht and Munster teams last year but, over the past few years, the quarter and semi finals, and even the final in 2003, have been dominated by Ulster teams.

Monaghan's five point win over Wexford last weekend again showed how what can be considered an average Ulster team at best had a comfortavle victory over a team thought to be one of Leinster's better sides. In fact, Antrim are the only Ulster team yet to be knocked out by non-Ulster opposition in the Championship to date.

Some have even argued that Ulster teams are being directly drawn against each other in an attempt to end the province's dominance. The qualifiers have already seen three all Ulster games (Down vs. Fermanagh, Down vs. Derry, Cavan vs Donegal) in just two rounds.

The next round of the qualifiers pits Monaghan against Louth, Derry against Limerick and Cavan against Meath. Out of those three ties, the only team I wouldn't fancy to win are Cavan (much as it breaks my heart to say it).

KingEric

I dont think there is any doubt that the Ulster Championship is the strongest. With the exception of Antrim each of the other 8 teams would be capable of beating most teams in the country. It does seem a bit of a coincidence that in the past few years Ulster teams have been drawn against each other a lot in the qualifiers.

As for the next round of qualifiers there is every chance that all 3 Ulster teams will progress to join Armagh and Tyrone in the next rounds.

In relation to a post by Lemlin in a previous thread about Tyrone's negative style of play and diving. I know they have done this in the past but they showed yesterday that they can play with style. They played a far better style of football than Armagh and didnt revert to diving as in the past. They won their frees fairly, mainly beacuse of Armagh's over agressive tackling! I'd rather see Tyrone win than Armagh...

28064212

Lemlin wrote:

...Tyrone's negative style of play and diving

I don't think Armagh are a much better footballing side. Both of them tend to use aggressive tactics and play negatively. Unfortunately, they're both very good at this and it can be very effective. I was very glad to see Kerry winning it last year by playing attractive football, even if it was them yet again. The Ulster final yesterday showed a very poor standard of footballing skills. Even the basics like soloing and handpassing were done badly. And the shooting was dire, except for O'Neill. Although that was true in all the games yesterday

To an extent, I would blame the refs. When it's an Ulster game, they tend to let things go that they wouldn't in the other provinces because it's expected. Which makes it very difficult for the other Ulster teams who are trying to play a skillful game. All the other Ulster teams tend towards more attractive styles. Which would explain why they do so well in the qualifiers.

I can't see Tyrone or Armagh winning the All-Ireland. Once they're out of Ulster, refs will start cracking down on their games, and any team with a decent free taker will beat them. Hopefully, refs will start treating Ulster games the same and we can have some skillful teams coming through

Waylander

I did not see the Ulster final yesterday, but if what you say is true King Eric it would be the first game in several years where Tyrone did not dive etc and that would surprise me. I think Armagh a a bit better then Tyrone and should win Ulster, and are probably the only team around who will consisitently trouble Kerry. In the next round of the qualifiers I would expect all 3 Ulster teams to progress. The reason Ulster teams tend to meet in the qualifiers, is because they have more competitive teams then the other provinces, hence have more teams still involved. This is not a conspiracy, it is unavoidable that they meet.

Lemlin

I don't agree with you King Eric, I saw plenty of diving in there. Eoin Gormley was touched by Francie Bellew and he went down like he'd been shot at one stage.

If anything, I'd far prefer to see Armagh win. The dirtiest tackle of the afternoon was Stephen O'Neill's on John Toal. It was very late and resulted in the end of Toal's game.

Armagh are a physical team like Tyrone but at least they don't lie on the ground. Even the BBC commentator mentioned at one stage that Martin O'Rourke had been victim to a heavy tackle where a free was given but he got up straight away. Show me a Tyrone man that would do the same and I'll be amazed.

And this morning, I read in The Star that Sean Cavanagh is saying he was bitten and spat at by a member of the Cavan team. Yet, the Cavan man who he is claiming bit him, Nicholas Walsh, wears a gum shield as do all Cavan Gaels players, so its a mystery to me and most of Cavan how Walsh could have managed to bite him.

Walsh is also one of the cleanest Cavan players going. When a Donegal player was punching the head off him in the last game, he threw the said player off him, got up and walked off, rather than start throwing punches back like many would.

If anything, I think Cavanagh's problem is that Walsh is the one player who, over different age levels, has consistently managed to nullify Cavanagh's threat in any game he has played against him. That's why Walsh was moved to midfield for the two Tyrone games.

Tyrone are sore losers and the breed of football they play is one I don't like at all. I even remember in the '95 final when Charlie Redmond was sent off, they realised Dublin had no place kicker on the pitch so any time Dublin got near the goals, they fouled.

djmarkus

Lemlin wrote:

A few of you may argue with me but I think that this year's Championship again shows the dominance of Ulster football. You may argue that the All-Ireland final was contested by Connacht and Munster teams last year but, over the past few years, the quarter and semi finals, and even the final in 2003, have been dominated by Ulster teams.

Monaghan's five point win over Wexford last weekend again showed how what can be considered an average Ulster team at best had a comfortavle victory over a team thought to be one of Leinster's better sides. In fact, Antrim are the only Ulster team yet to be knocked out by non-Ulster opposition in the Championship to date.

Some have even argued that Ulster teams are being directly drawn against each other in an attempt to end the province's dominance. The qualifiers have already seen three all Ulster games (Down vs. Fermanagh, Down vs. Derry, Cavan vs Donegal) in just two rounds.

The next round of the qualifiers pits Monaghan against Louth, Derry against Limerick and Cavan against Meath. Out of those three ties, the only team I wouldn't fancy to win are Cavan (much as it breaks my heart to say it).

Ah, Its tough at the top.

blackbelt

i wouldn't be surprised at all to see Derry beat Limerick.as good as they are,Derry are always ttough opposition.look how far they got last year.louth v monahgan is also a close call but i would put my money on monaghan.i predict meath to beat cavan.

so all in all i predict to ulster teams to make it to the next round

weemcd

being from armagh i can safley say tyrone are diving hoors!

aside from that, i think it was a poor mach from armagh, we were very lucky with the late get out of jail free card and fantastic point kicked over by paul mc grane to equalise.

All in all Tyrone should have buried us when they had the chance, if Armagh sort themselves out, and play any sort of competitive football we should beat tyrone in the replay.

McClane

You may argue that the All-Ireland final was contested by Connacht and Munster teams last year but, over the past few years, the quarter and semi finals, and even the final in 2003, have been dominated by Ulster teams.

Munster - One county plays football as its "First game",most of the other counties have no interest in football at all. Clare, Limerick and Cork have decent teams but football is hurlings poor cousin in popularity and following.
Point of this comment - > Theres no competition in Munster football.

Connacht - Galway and Mayo. They're the only two teams capable of all-Irelands.
Point of this comment - > Theres no/little competition in Connacht.

Leinster - Not sure what their problem is. Maybe GAA's just not very popular near the pale ? :P

Ulster - You have a lot of great teams fighting it out.
Point of this comment - > Theres LOTS of competition in Ulster.

Your point is meaningless. Ulster football isn't better, its simply more competitive. Theres no hurling in Ulster to compete with football (Antrim you need to pull yer socks up, i was shouting for ye all year).

Ulster has a lot more great teams then Munster or Connacht or Leinster but the Munster and Connacht teams that are great are just as good as them.

blackbelt

i have to agree and disagree with you.

as far as munster is concerned i think you are wrong.Cork are a good football team and limerick are proving themselves to.

out of the 6 teams,3 teams can win it...kerry,cork,limerick.

i agree with connacht...mayo and galway.every year its the same.

leinster is very competitive... nearly any team can win it wether it be dublin,laois,westmeath,meath,offaly,wexford.its just bad luck leinster teams havent won the all ireland.

ulster...armagh and tyrone are dominant without a doubt and then you have teams like fermanagh and monaghan surfacing to prove the critics wrong.Derry and (Down to a lesser extent) are always dangerous opposition.

the only province there is little competition is connacht.

Lemlin

Leinster is very competitive but once the teams leave Leinster they hit problems because the quality of football there is so poor.

Kildare lost last weekend to a poor Connacht team while Carlow were hammered by Limerick. Louth will lose in the next round too. Leaving the losers of Dublin vs. Laois as the only Leinster team in the qualifiers along with Meath probably, despite Leinster having the most counties.

I'd agreed with weemcd. I hope that Armagh can sort themselves out and beat Tyrone the next day. Stevie McDonnell and alot of the team weren't on their game at all last Sunday but they still pulled a draw out of the bag, fair play to them the way they never gave up.

kaimera

I agree with the Leinster comment blackbelt made :: nearly any team can win it but the major problem is, it can appear that the winner is content with just the provinvial title.

westmeath last year > laois the year before.

two teams that did well to win Leinster but flopped like a fish out of water in the All_Ireland series. [yes, I acknowlege that both teams had waited a long time for it but still]

Waylander

I disagree with you blackjack. In Munster it would be a fluke for Limerick to win a provincial final, check the record books for the last time it happened. In Leinster Westmeath have lost to Clare and to a poor Kildare team. Meath are at their lowest ebb for years, and I think Cavan will beat them, after Leitrim draging them to extra time. Not much in between Laois, Wexford and Dublin, but I think Armagh, and Kerry are a level further on then these. Ulster is stronger then the other provinces, as their are 7 or 8 strong teams, but like Mc Clane said, none of these counties put any real effort into hurling.

zAbbo

Monaghan will beat Louth, two of the weakest teams from there provinces, but i Expect my home team(monaghan) to beat them with ease

KingEric

Lemlin wrote:

I don't agree with you King Eric, I saw plenty of diving in there. Eoin Gormley was touched by Francie Bellew and he went down like he'd been shot at one stage.

I'm not sure which incident you are referring to but if its the one when Gormley had to go off with a cut mouth, the television replays showed clearly that Bellew led with his elbow and caught Gormley hard on the mouth.

The dirtiest tackle of the afternoon was Stephen O'Neill's on John Toal. It was very late and resulted in the end of Toal's game.

I dont think its fair to call this a dirty tackle. O'Neill was trying to block the ball and just caught Toal on the follow through. There were a lot more dirty tackles namely the two neck high tackles dished out by Armagh players.

Armagh are a physical team like Tyrone but at least they don't lie on the ground.

There were numerous occasions in the Donegal games when the Armagh players seemed to lie down very easily...

I'm not trying to defend Tyrone or anything, but i just think that Armagh get away with a lot cos they're supposedly a "physical" team.

weemcd

KingEric wrote:

I dont think its fair to call this a dirty tackle. O'Neill was trying to block the ball and just caught Toal on the follow through. There were a lot more dirty tackles namely the two neck high tackles dished out by Armagh players.

The ball was nowhere near Toal when he was tackled, he had got rid of it, so surley this was an off the ball tackle?

KingEric

weemcd wrote:

The ball was nowhere near Toal when he was tackled, he had got rid of it, so surley this was an off the ball tackle?

O'Neill came across to block Toal's kick, but by the time he got there Toal had already kicked the ball. It was O'Neills momentum that carried him through. I agree that it was a bit reckless but was in no way delibrate or the dirtiest tackle in the match.

I think that we're starting to drift away from the original topic here though...

Waylander

I think that Ulster can only be considered dominant when they start to bring Sam up north on a yearly basis, which they are not yet doing. Yes they have the most counties in at the quarter final stage each year, but as they have more counties with a high standard then this is only to be expected. Munster and Connacht have fewer counties, and the Leinster standard is just lagging a bit behind at the minute.

Lemlin

I don't think Armagh players would lie down nearly as easily as Tyrone. Armagh tend to have strong physical players who stand up to hard tackling.

Gormley was caught no worse than when he nearly took the jaw off Jason O'Reilly in the Cavan replay game. I think Francie caught him but it could be seen as accidental and he overacted it. At the end of the day, what goes around comes around and Gormley should be fit to take what he dishes out.

All in all, Leinster is very poor, I think Dublin were the last Leinster All-Ireland semi finalists way back in 2002 (maybe I'm wrong) but that's a very weak record if I'm right.

Connacht is very weak and, from Sunday's showing, it doesn't look like Mayo or Galway will do much this year either. If anything, they've taken a step backwards from last year.

Galway may have won the Under 21 this year but Ulster teams like Armagh, Down and Tyrone have been ruling the underage scene for years and its beginning to show.

Cork may have put it up to Kerry last week but there's nothing to say that they are a better team than Derry or Monaghan. They certainly aren't better than Armagh or Tyrone.

As for the hurling scene, I reckon if Cork had won the All-Ireland in Gaelic football, and not hurling last year, then supporters would be saying its a footballing county!

It could be argued for the other Munster counties like Clare and Waterford but in Leinster (unless you're talking about Kilkenny, Wexford or Offaly), football is always the dominant sport and its the same in Connacht (apart from Galway but like Cork it has a large population anyway).

Flukey

I had some English friends in Croke Park with me at the end of May. One of the things that they commented on was the way players got up fairly quickly when they went down, unlike in some sports.

McClane

I reckon if Cork had won the All-Ireland in Gaelic football, and not hurling last year, then supporters would be saying its a footballing county!

I'm not from Cork but i know a lot of GAA people in Cork and i'm fairly certain that football is considered to be the second sport regardless of which they won last.

Any Cork people confirm ?

In Tipperary i was listening to the Westmeat v Tipp football match on the radio which Tipp could have easily won. (A huge achievement for them) An excellent performance by them but no one actually cared. :P

I had some English friends in Croke Park with me at the end of May. One of the things that they commented on was the way players got up fairly quickly when they went down, unlike in some sports.

Or the way they don't roll over 6-7 times before clutching their face.

At the Munster final Diarmaid O'Sullivan (Big big man) got a very nasty knock of the hurl from Mícháel Webster from Tipp. Got straight back up.

Its one of the main reasons i can't stand soccer. I'd watch Ireland play & maybe watch a match with friends who'd support the teams but apart from that i could't be bothered.

KingEric

I think that diving in soccer has got way out of hand. If you even go near a player now they fall to the ground. At least in GAA a player doesnt go down unless hit hard, although i think that soccer has started to influence some GAA players. In the last two years especially i've noticed a lot of players who fall down with even the slightest of knocks. It would be very sad for GAA if this practice became more widespread.

Lemlin

I think the weekend again showed Ulster's dominance. 5 of the 12 teams left are Ulster teams.

Only 2 are from Leinster and both of those have yet to play a team from outside Leinster - shocking statistic when you think about it.

*marie*

I'm watching the Armagh-Tyrone replay at the moment, and I just have to say that watching the game is actually making me angry, and almost embarrassed to call myself a devoted GAA fan. The antics on and off the pitch of *some* of these team members and fans are diabolical. They bring shame on the association and it is high time that something is done about it. People may argue that they are highly skilled teams, and certainly they are, but this is not the way the game should be played. They may be "dominant", but why can't they just learn how to play a good, clean game of football?

Cucullan

*marie* wrote:

I'm watching the Armagh-Tyrone replay at the moment, and I just have to say that watching the game is actually making me angry, and almost embarrassed to call myself a devoted GAA fan. The antics on and off the pitch of *some* of these team members and fans are diabolical. They bring shame on the association and it is high time that something is done about it. People may argue that they are highly skilled teams, and certainly they are, but this is not the way the game should be played. They may be "dominant", but why can't they just learn how to play a good, clean game of football?

I've just watched the game too and I'd have to say it wasn't one of the prettiest games I ever saw. The amount of needless bookings different players got for the silliest of fouls was very childish.I thought Canavans sending off was abit harsh but I suppose he did start the brawl. I realy hope neither of these teams win the All Ireland because the way they play the game isn't very sporting and certainly isn't good publicity for the game, how come the likes of Kerry win so many All Irelands without resorting to punching, kicking and elbowing opponents???

*marie*

Exactly.

Lemlin

I think you'd see the same if you watched a game between any close rivals though. For the last seven years, these two teams have had endless meetings and dominated Ulster. The players are used to playing each year and have plenty of old scores to settle.

Just think about a Dublin-Meath game and you'll see what I'm talking about. And what goes on in Gaelic isn't nearly as bad as some of the bust-ups in other sports.

Martin McHugh made an interesting point on the BBC today. He said he was at the Leinster final last week and there was absolutely no tactics involved. Perhaps that's why Leinster football is so weak.

Ulster teams utilise tactics like moving players around the pitch (eg. Aaron Kiernan today who was a half forward but popped up everywhere any anywhere) that teams from other provinces generally can't deal with.

netwhizkid

Fair play to the referee, about time someone clamped down on these hooligans, the way they play they could be responsible for someones death, Armagh were the worse of the two the amount of physical tackles they made was outlandish, i am not condoning Tyrone either, they can play like bulldogs too. fair play to Michael Collins the referee for putting manners in them. While another pointed out how Kerry can win all-irelands without a punch up this is fairly true, But Kerry have left off steam too in the past :rolleyes: But the Northern Teams are constantly at it, Canavan squaring up to the linesman and Oisin Mcconvile (sorry for the bad spelling) his reaction to missing the goal was applaing heck it happens man. This armagh team are average, if they meets Kerry, and Kerry are in good form, Kerry will win, as for Tyrone, I reckon if they meets Cork then Cork will beat them.
My tuppence worth.

Flukey

I was at it. The second half got rough, but the first half was not bad. The referee let a lot go, but then the game flowed a bit more. People would be complaining here if he had blown up over every little thing. I was in the Upper Hogan, so I didn't see what happened as Canavan came off, but the crowd were looking, so something did. Anyway, there was great excitement at the game I can tell you. A smaller crowd than the first day, but a good atmosphere. Now for the two big hurling games. There will be a big crowd at those too, and there should be some good stuff on display.

fightin irish

I would love to commend Armagh with thier great strength and power...but sadly they can lower themselves to a bunch of animals. The amount of savage tackles and kicks and not to mention the box that went unnoticed. It really is great to see Ulster startin to take a big stand in football but sadly i often hear myself shouting ''dirty bastards'' Our own whelan would fit in nicely with the Armagh boys

Triton

Good to see a Dublin supporter actually admitting Whelan is a thug. He should of gone in the first minute against Dublin. I think Armagh will win the All-Ireland. They never give up and they have the beating of Kerry or Cork. Tyrone will have it tough now if Canavan is banned for a month. Even if he shouldn't of been sent off he's a little knacker most of the time. The crowd were looking because a Tyrone supporter acttacked the Armagh player that was sent off.

Illkillya

McClane wrote:

I'm not from Cork but i know a lot of GAA people in Cork and i'm fairly certain that football is considered to be the second sport regardless of which they won last.

Any Cork people confirm ?

While traditionally, Cork overall is better known for its hurling, you can start at the tip of the Beara peninsula and drive east at the speed limit for over 2 hours through a hundred different parishes - none of which have a hurling team, all of which are football mad. In most of West Cork, hurling isn't even the second sport... I'd say its the fourth - after football, soccer, and rugby.

Cork is a real dual county, with some areas strongly favouring hurling (e.g. most of East Cork). Hurling probably does take precedence if you did a head-count for preferred sport, given that it has the upper hand in the city, but I would imagine that football has a much larger geographical spread as the number one.

Illkillya

And to address the original post,

A few of you may argue with me but I think that this year's Championship again shows the dominance of Ulster football. You may argue that the All-Ireland final was contested by Connacht and Munster teams last year but, over the past few years, the quarter and semi finals, and even the final in 2003, have been dominated by Ulster teams.

Yes, I will argue with you there - an ulster team didn't win the all Ireland last year. No ulster team even made it to the final. How can you call that dominance? I see where you're coming from, but the word doesn't fit.

Lemlin

Well, for example, this year:

34 teams entered the All-Ireland at the start of the year. 9 from Ulster, 12 from Leinster, 7 from Connact and 12 from Leinster. The roster now reads:

Leinster: 2
Connacht: 3
Munster: 2
Ulster: 5

Of the nine Ulster teams, only 1 was knocked out by non-Ulster opposition (Antrim vs. Meath).

If you look back at the past few years, Ulster teams have dominated the last 8 and last four. Last year, 2 of the last 4 were from Ulster, the year before it was 3 and we had an all Ulster final.

There will be at least 2 Ulster teams in the last 8 (Monghan or Tyrone and Armagh) while Derry and Cavan have real chances of making it through to make it three or four.

And the only reason that there isn't more is that the teams have been paired together in previous rounds.

I think all this illustrates a Northern dominance.

McClane

34 teams entered the All-Ireland at the start of the year. 9 from Ulster, 12 from Leinster, 7 from Connact and 12 from Leinster. The roster now reads:

Leinster: 2
Connacht: 3
Munster: 2
Ulster: 5

LOL

Are you honestly suggesting that a Province like Munster a) takes football seriously b) gives a toss about the football championship ?

Kerry are the only county in Munster to have football as their first game and look how good they are. Counties like Tipperary have football teams, Tipp have the best forward in the county imo (Declan Browne, watch him at aussie rules and you'll agree) but its a second/third class sport. They don't take it seriousdly anymore then Tyrone/Derry take Hurling seriously. (Oh yes Tyrone and Derry have hurling teams).

When Tipp were playing Kerry in the Munster championship i was talking to a load of Tipp lads who didn't even know they were playing.

In Leinster you can subtract Kilkenny, my god how could you include them as having a football team ? Do you know who they put on in their last challenge match against Wexford ? They had 2 substitutes and 1 of them was a selector, they put on DJ Carey to "Inspire" the team.

You could also probably throw out Wexford and arguably Offaly.

Your point is pointless. You might as well say that hurlings more dominant in Munster because look at how many munster teams are left in the hurling championship.

There are so many Munster teams left in it because they concentrate on Hurling and they are very very good at it. Ulster is so dominant in Football because they concentrate on it and because there are so many counties in Ulster in the first place.

Connacht have 3 counties left, that means they've only lost 2. Ulster have 5, which means it has lost 4.

I'm going out with a girl from Tipp and you could tell her father that Tipp were in the football semi-final and he might watch it on the telly, we offered him a lift to Thurles (Not far) to watch Tipp v Westmeath and he couldn't care less. The same man would go to watch Tipperary play a challenge match in hurling.

Your point is absolutely pointless.

fightin irish

McClane wrote:

LOL

Are you honestly suggesting that a Province like Munster a) takes football seriously b) gives a toss about the football championship ?

Kerry are the only county in Munster to have football as their first game and look how good they are. Counties like Tipperary have football teams, Tipp have the best forward in the county imo (Declan Browne, watch him at aussie rules and you'll agree) but its a second/third class sport. They don't take it seriousdly anymore then Tyrone/Derry take Hurling seriously. (Oh yes Tyrone and Derry have hurling teams).

When Tipp were playing Kerry in the Munster championship i was talking to a load of Tipp lads who didn't even know they were playing.

In Leinster you can subtract Kilkenny, my god how could you include them as having a football team ? Do you know who they put on in their last challenge match against Wexford ? They had 2 substitutes and 1 of them was a selector, they put on DJ Carey to "Inspire" the team.

You could also probably throw out Wexford and arguably Offaly.

Your point is pointless. You might as well say that hurlings more dominant in Munster because look at how many munster teams are left in the hurling championship.

There are so many Munster teams left in it because they concentrate on Hurling and they are very very good at it. Ulster is so dominant in Football because they concentrate on it and because there are so many counties in Ulster in the first place.

Connacht have 3 counties left, that means they've only lost 2. Ulster have 5, which means it has lost 4.

I'm going out with a girl from Tipp and you could tell her father that Tipp were in the football semi-final and he might watch it on the telly, we offered him a lift to Thurles (Not far) to watch Tipp v Westmeath and he couldn't care less. The same man would go to watch Tipperary play a challenge match in hurling.

Your point is absolutely pointless.

His point is not pointless, He's talking about football NOT hurling...two different sports end of story.Just because they are GAA realted sports they have no bearing on his comments!!

Lemlin

Thanks for backing me up fightin Irish.

And McClane, if you read the original post correctly, you'd notice that Connact has seven teams (New York and London are Connacht teams, poor as they may be).

I think you'll find plenty of people in Munster and Leinster who take football seriously. Wexford are one of the best football teams in Leinster, their footballers are better than their hurlers at the minute!

McClane

His point is not pointless, He's talking about football NOT hurling...two different sports end of story.Just because they are GAA realted sports they have no bearing on his comments!!

I'm really sick of this.

Ulster clearly has more quality football teams then Munster, Connacht or Leinster. Does it mean anything ? no it doesn't! Ulster HAS more football counties then Connacht or Munster.

You might as well say that the USA are dominant in American football.

What is the point hes trying to make ? Ulster have 9 counties, 8 take football as their first game.

Firstly the Provinces are different sizes with different numbers of counties. saying Ulster has 5 left is meaningless in this context. Connacht only has 5 counties!
Secondly Munster counties play hurling as their first sport apart from Kerry. How can you say your better at football then Munster when they treat football the same way that Ulster treats hurling ???

I think you'll find plenty of people in Munster and Leinster who take football seriously

Yeah and theres plenty of people in Ulster that take hurling seriously too. Nearly every Ulster county has a hurling team. Why is Ulster hurling so ****e ?
<sarcasm>Munster hurling is clearly dominant to everyone else !!!<\sarcasm>

Wexford are one of the best football teams in Leinster, their footballers are better than their hurlers at the minute!

Oh their footballers are better then their hurlers are they ? Did their footballers defeat their hurlers in football/hurling ? how are they "better" ?

Wexford are in the top 5 teams in the country for hurling.

Oh look i'm using pointless numbers to prove my point.

Illkillya

McClane wrote:

Wexford are in the top 5 teams in the country for hurling.

Off topic, but: not true

Waylander

Still off topic but they probably were before the weekend . Mc Clane I agree with alot of what you say, in fact the majority of it. But Leinster has as many counties that take football seriously, and probably is underperforming at the minute. Having said that, I do not think that just because Ulster have the most remaining teams at the quarter final stage each year it is fair to say that they are dominating. I think Kerry would have something to say about this so called dominance.

McClane

Ranking Football | Hurling
1. Kerry | Kilkenny
2. Armagh | Cork
3. Tyrone | Waterford
4. Donegal| Tipperary
5. Dublin | Clare
6. Fermanagh |Wexford

...... ................ |.............
23. Wexford | .............

Gaelic Gazette rankings as of 4th March this year. Before last weekend i would have put Wexford ahead of Clare. They always play fantastic against Kilkenny.

Obviously this is hardly official ranking but its not far off at all.

jank

Ranking Football | Hurling
1. Kerry | Kilkenny
2. Armagh | Cork
3. Tyrone | Waterford
4. Donegal| Tipperary
5. Dublin | Clare
6. Fermanagh |Wexford

Well having Kilkenny ahead of Cork is bull**** as last time I checked Cork are All-Ireland Champions.

Where are Derry, Mayo, Galway and even the Cork footballers?
Dublin better than all them? hmmm I dont think so!

Waylander

Cork may be all ireland champions but Kilkenny are a better team. Also I would not rank Donegal, Dublin or Fermanagh that highly. I think Wexford are seriously under rated in that too.

The Rooster

jank wrote:

Well having Kilkenny ahead of Cork is bull**** as last time I checked Cork are All-Ireland Champions.

Where are Derry, Mayo, Galway and even the Cork footballers?
Dublin better than all them? hmmm I dont think so!

No we wouldnt beat them all.
But if we played them all separately, then yeah, we would beat them.

Though Donegal ahead of Dublin!! Now that's a joke :mad:

As regards the hurling just because you win something once doesnt make you the best. Greece are hardly rated the best team in Europe, though they are European champions (ditto Liverpool). Kilkenny have been in the last 3 All Ireland finals, winning 2 of them and seem to win the NHL most years too. I dont think its unreasonable to rate them 1 at the moment, though it probably is very close between them and Cork at the top.

McClane

But Leinster has as many counties that take football seriously, and probably is underperforming at the minute

Yes Leinster are underperforming but you have to subtract Kilkenny and probably Wexford and Offaly from the overall 12. Kilkenny obviously make very little attempt at football while Wexford and Offaly could be considered as concentrating on Hurling. Even Laois do decently well at both trades.

I do not think that just because Ulster have the most remaining teams at the quarter final stage each year it is fair to say that they are dominating. I think Kerry would have something to say about this so called dominance.

I don't really understand the point of it. Yes Ulster has more decet quality football teams then any other Province but thats because 8 of the 9 Ulster counties concentrate completely on Football. Ulster also has 9 counties whereas Connacht only has 5 and Munster 6. Only one Munster county concentrates on football and look how good they are.

Saying Ulster football is dominant is as pointless as saying Munster hurling is dominant.

McClane

Well having Kilkenny ahead of Cork is bull**** as last time I checked Cork are All-Ireland Champions.

No its not bull****. Just because Cork are all-Ireland champions does't mean they are the favourites. Waterford and Wexford were Munster and Leinster champions respectively this year yet when they played Cork and Kilkenny they were the underdogs.

Where are Derry, Mayo, Galway and even the Cork footballers?
Dublin better than all them? hmmm I dont think so!

That ranking was of March this year. I don't agree entirely with the football rankings either, i'm simply pointing out that was from the gaelic gazette ad the hurling rankings is how i and a lot of people would rank the hurling counties.

KingEric

This topic just seems to be going around in circles...

Its all down to how you define dominant. If you think a province is dominant by having the greatest number of teams in the later stages of the All-Ireland then yes Ulster is the dominant force in football as is Munster in hurling. But i dont think that having a lot of strong teams makes the province dominant.

But if you define dominant by the province that has produced the most All-Ireland winners in recent years, then no province is dominant. The football All-Ireland has been shared fairly evenly between the provinces in say the last 10 years.

Culchie

Sorry I joined this thread late.

I disagree with the original poster's point of view.

Other than Tyrone and Armagh, no other Ulster province has a chance of winning Sam, the same as in Connaught it's Mayo and Galway, Munster Cork and Kerry. This is traditional footballing country, built on underage and social fabric. Football is a way of life.


It's a little different in Leinster in that things are changing dramitically regarding demographics, commuter belts etc... The emergence of Laois, Westmeath, Kildare etc... backs this up. Meath were first to benefit from shifting population base in late 80's. Dublin will always be a force.

A lot of it comes down to proper management and selection (who no-one has mentioned thus far).

Look what O'Mahony did for Leitrim (for F's sake ...Leitrim !!) and Galway, look what Micko did for Kildare and now Laois...... Sean Boylan for Meath.

Joe Kernan is a legend as is Mickey Harte.


So to sum up, Tyrone and Armagh are definitely 2 of the best 8 (maybe 4)teams in the country at the moment ...... but that is it.

The other Ulster counties are no better or worse than most other footballing counties.

Lemlin

I was away from this topic because I was in Galway but basically: I'm not saying Ulster football is dominant, just wondering if people think it is, because several commentators and writers have talked about a trend emerging in Ulster teams doing better than their counterparts in recent years. That was what I meant by dominant KingEric.

There are alot of facts to prove this is true like the ones I've pointed out. Including the facts that Ulster teams like Cavan and Monaghan have moved forward vastly this year, while others like Down are unlucky not to be in with a shout (thanks mainly to some very unlucky draws for the past few years).

As regarding proper management Culchie, alot of it comes down to having a good team too. Do you think Mick O'Dwyer just picked Laois to manage out of a hat? Nope, he could see all the underage titles they had won and saw a good up and coming team that needed some guidance and with whom he could be successful.

Sean Boylan is struggling at Meath now, not because of his own shortcomings, but because of the lack of young talent in the county. There's no doubting though that strong management can be a great asset to a team but a manager needs talent to work with.

Waylander

Its funny how you can back down from an arguement you were strongly backing during a thread Lemlin. In this thread are you really trying to maintain you were not argueing that Ulster was a dominant force now? It is quite clear from your earlier posts that is not the case. As regards management etc, I dont think Laois picked Mick O Dwyer, I think he picker Laois. there are managers out there that are just winners. In the premiershipo there is Fergie Wenger and Mourinho, these guys are born to win. Micko is a bit like that. He did it with Kerry, Kildare and now Laois. He is a winner.

I do not think Cavan and Monaghon have improved as much as you seem to think they have. monaghon won Division 2, but to me that is not that big an achievement. Cavan lost to Tyrone and Mayo. Neither are world beaters.

Lemlin

IMO Ulster is the dominant force but, if you look at the original post, I was trying to get other people's opinions. Therefore, I'm not ramming it down people's throats that it is, I'm just showing the case why I think it is.

Cavan have improved drastically. We may have only got as far as the qualifiers round 4 but its a huge improvement on the last few years. Its also a vast improvment for Monaghan on previous years' performance.

As for Tyrone not being world beaters, why are they third favourites for the All-Ireland then? I admit they're not the team they were but they are still formidable opposition.

And, ask any Mayo man, the one thing holding Mayo back is John Maughan.

Regarding Micko, where did you get the feeling that I said Laois picked Micko? I clearly say in my post "Do you think Mick O'Dwyer just picked Laois" showing that it was Micko who picked Laois. Micko could go to any county board in the country and they'd jump at him.