Medicine Course Query

Bono_85

Hey, I repeated my leaving this year, got 560 last year and want to do medicine. I'm just wondering if worst comes to worst and I don't get it again, I have pharmacy down aswell on my CAO and Science, so if I do pharmacy is there a chance of somehow getting into the medicine course at the end of my pharmacy course? I know it sounds complicated, but any feedback would be appreciated.

howdareyou

Do arts.

ApeXaviour

howdareyou wrote:

Do arts.

That's not very helpful seeming as the person has an obvious interest in medicine/science. Please keep your responses "efficacious", or at least funny.

also howdareyou please post in the who's who thread at the top of this forum.

lomb

tb very honest medicine is not a good career. no one else will tell u this, but it is not a good career at all. there are many reasons for this and money isnt the only one.
dentistry is a far better career and u will see more of life and b ur own boss. i know many doctors who left medicine dishearted and are doing something else, the hours are crap for many years and to reach consultant level well lets put it this way its a closed shop...
pharmacy isnt bad but there are alot of new pharmacies opened up recently and the yields are dropping. also in the uk the NHS has KILLED pharmacy as a career. there are hundreds done for fraud every year there simply because u cannot run a pharmacy viably on what the nhs pays. its only a couple of quid per prescription and u cannot run a business on that.
i got 560 also and did dentistry and i know alot of doctors and pharmacists also and tbh, its the best by far of the 3 careers. especially if u progress to specialist level which is fairly easy if u know how.
ps dentistry is very good as its only way to become a full surgeon at 22 years of age. u can start placing dental implants into bone and doing sinus lifts, bone grafts if u feel u are competant after a couple of years. then theres orthodontics, crowns etc.

Bono_85

no I don't want to do pharmacy, I want to try and get into medicine by doing it, because its lower points

lomb

Bono_85 wrote:

no I don't want to do pharmacy, I want to try and get into medicine by doing it, because its lower points

well technically it is possible but in reality it wont b, why do u want to do medicine anyway?its not a good career, every doctor ive met tells me that.

Bono_85

yeah well everyone is different, I'd rather find out from experience that its a horrible career than take someone elses word for it. If it is bad, I'll just transfer!

lomb

go for it ul c quick enough and u wont 'just transfer' its not that easy, apart from paying the fees as the governmetn wont pay if u transfer u wont b accepted into any decent course, good luck anyway

claireoby

If Bono_85 wants to do med, let them do it. i'm sure u've studied very hard both years doin the leavin and someone sayin now "dont do it" isnt very helpful!!

DrIndy

My most recent experience with a dentistry referral today was a sight! A patient of mine was dispatched to the dentist to have some loose teeth examined and removed (inhaling teeth is NASTY and = lung abscess) so he got a prompt referral from me. He returned to the ward traumatised to the point where he saw me in a white coat and a shirt and tie and tried to hit me and kick me away until I assured him I was not a dentist, but a doctor and was here to help!

Poor guy.....

Medicine is tough, I did 80 hours this week, one day-night-day on call and 5 more days 8-8. But I love it and anyone interested in medicine will too. Its non-stop go and you never know whats on the end of the line when you get bleeped, unless you get double bleeped which means its an emergency and you gotta run.

My friend resuscitated someone from heart failure last night on her own until the registrar arrived to take over and I dealt with my own fair quota (doing medicine rather than surgery so its less emergencies and more urgent which means you walk fast rather than sprint to the ward in question). My sister is a doc and she once defribilated a woman 4 times when her heart went into a fatal arrhythmia.

Its a good feeling and you always go home happy........

Bono_85

thank you, that has motivated me so much, really! I just hope I get the points now, its ridiculous, i can't do anymore work than I did! but no matter what I'm going to end up being a doc!

DrIndy

Its great, and then there are all the hilarious stories too. A friend of mine was going into see his patient, stuck his head around the curtain and saw his patient under the covers with his hand going up and down around the waist area. ****! Keeping his laughter suppressed, he quietly informed the nurse to not give him his medicines for a few more minutes.

One of my own grabbed and downed the bottle of methadone on the drug trolley and then ran out the door. I got bleeped about this to make a note in the chart. I reacted fast as I thought he overdosed and started interrogating the nurse about how he was breathing etc... and if he was reacting. She said "ah sure - he's used to it, he ran out the door"........

Sweet jesus.... we have some conversations in the pub!

Bono_85

oh god, stop man your killin me! It sounds amazing! Its all I've wanted to do since i was 14, how many years was your course? whats it like at trinity?

DrIndy

It is 6 years becoming 5. Its a good time to study medicine as we are undergoing the revamp that happened to dentistry and vet a few years back with a big increase in funding. The benefit of studying in TCD as opposed to other universities (without knocking them) is TCD has better hospital based teaching facilities and a much greater patient: student ratio than any other college. Other unis send students to outlying hospitals to ensure enough training. In TCD - you need never leave dublin as we have the biggest and one of the biggest hospitals (St. James's (where I work) and Tallaght) hospital.

You also have the pleasure of following the footsteps of Graves, Stokes, Wilde, Burkitt, Dun and Kidd. The discoveries of thyroid disease, the opthalmoscope, a lymphoma, surgery and the inventor of the hypodermic syringe........

howdareyou

What age are you Bono, 17? How could any 14 year old know what they want to be doing with themselves when they're 40? College is not some job training course provider either. Why don't you do arts and then decide, or are you in a hurry? Don't want to "waste" your excess points?

Must I declare my identity, or may I preserve some anonymity? The absolute cheek!

Bono_85

what the hell is your problem?? Im 19, I said I did my leaving cert twice, I don't want to do arts, because I want to do medicine? did u not get that part? why are you obsessed with me doing arts?

claireoby

howdareyou wrote:

What age are you Bono, 17? How could any 14 year old know what they want to be doing with themselves when they're 40? College is not some job training course provider either. Why don't you do arts and then decide, or are you in a hurry? Don't want to "waste" your excess points?

Must I declare my identity, or may I preserve some anonymity? The absolute cheek!

Personally i prefer if a person chooses to do medicine from a young age and because they want to do it for a long time rather than decide at the last moment they want to do med coz they can get the points. Bono seems like they have wanted to do it and would love to be a doctor...which would you perfer to treat you howdareyou..a doc who cares bout their job or some one who just has no idea but can get d points.???? cant you see that??? why would a person interested in helping people and science do arts??(and i do arts so dont attack me on that).wheres the fault in knowing what you want to do with your life??

lomb

dentistry is a 35 hour week with no night shifts and is just as satisfying but in a very different way.
the points are mad partly because those from northern ireland only have to get 3 As in their A levels and thats the equivelent of 600 points theres no A2s there like here, it really is nearly impossible to get 6 A1s, even 6 A2S aredifficult but they wont get u in, on the other hand if u get 3As in ur A levels in the north u are in.
its a bit of a scam ,i know irish people who have gone up their to study and got in where as here they wouldnt have a prayer

lomb

DrIndy wrote:

My most recent experience with a dentistry referral today was a sight! A patient of mine was dispatched to the dentist to have some loose teeth examined and removed (inhaling teeth is NASTY and = lung abscess) so he got a prompt referral from me. He returned to the ward traumatised to the point where he saw me in a white coat and a shirt and tie and tried to hit me and kick me away until I assured him I was not a dentist, but a doctor and was here to help!

theres all sorts of weirdos out there , and alot of dodgy patients also, thats the only downside to it, being a specialist soon sorts out the weirdos from people who want something done

cuckoo

Bono_85, good luck with your results, and whatever course you do i hope you'll be happy in it.

There are chances to go into medicine as a postgrad - ppl i know have done so with degrees from a variety of backgrounds, but, they do have to pay fees.

However, the selection process for this is tough, and a lot seems to be based on what people have done outside of their courses, eg volunteering, working in nursing homes, running college societies plus good grades. So, if you don't end up in medicine and do decide to go to college whatever course you do it'll be three/four years in which you'd want to be happy for your own sanity, and maybe time could lead you to a different career altogether (you never know...).

So, if you do end up doing pharmacy embrace the time you are there, don't view it as second best and get involved in lots of things. If you spend your time in pharmacy learning everything that you can, getting good marks and building up a good body of activities outside of your course imho it wouldn't damage your chances to get into medicine afterwards.

Ok, i'm never likely to sit on an interview board for postgrad admissions to med school, but i know i'd prefer the candidate that said 'well, i did the leaving twice, didn't get into medicine so decided to explore pharmacy. got good grades, did an interesting final year project and learned loads about drug x, volunteered here there and everywhere, team work experience from this society, i've worked for a year now post graduation in a hospital, etc, etc' over the candidate that said 'i spent four years in pharmacy looking over longingly at the med students, wasn't engaged in my course, crammed for the exams and watched ER repeats every night on cable.....'

Life takes us in all sorts of directions, but each new direction is an opportunity.

lomb

cuckoo wrote:

Bono_85, good luck with your results, and whatever course you do i hope you'll be happy in it.

There are chances to go into medicine as a postgrad - ppl i know have done so with degrees from a variety of backgrounds, but, they do have to pay fees.

However, the selection process for this is tough, and a lot seems to be based on what people have done outside of their courses, eg volunteering, working in nursing homes, running college societies plus good grades. So, if you don't end up in medicine and do decide to go to college whatever course you do it'll be three/four years in which you'd want to be happy for your own sanity, and maybe time could lead you to a different career altogether (you never know...).

So, if you do end up doing pharmacy embrace the time you are there, don't view it as second best and get involved in lots of things. If you spend your time in pharmacy learning everything that you can, getting good marks and building up a good body of activities outside of your course imho it wouldn't damage your chances to get into medicine afterwards.

Ok, i'm never likely to sit on an interview board for postgrad admissions to med school, but i know i'd prefer the candidate that said 'well, i did the leaving twice, didn't get into medicine so decided to explore pharmacy. got good grades, did an interesting final year project and learned loads about drug x, volunteered here there and everywhere, team work experience from this society, i've worked for a year now post graduation in a hospital, etc, etc' over the candidate that said 'i spent four years in pharmacy looking over longingly at the med students, wasn't engaged in my course, crammed for the exams and watched ER repeats every night on cable.....'

Life takes us in all sorts of directions, but each new direction is an opportunity.

or u could just sit ur A levels in the north and get in no problem

angeldelight

Yes if you do pharmacy you could apply for entry into medicine as a graduate. However, no matter what your primary degree is in, you can do this. I've just finished my first year in Pharmacy and it was extremely hard work. A lot of what we do in Pharmacy is very different to what med students do, you might find that studying science and specialising in physiology or biochemistry would be more helpful. This year we had a small number of physiology lectures with the meds and chemistry. Apart from that the courses are completely different. Also there's a person on my course who wanted to do medicine but didn't get in so did pharmacy instead and he's not happy at all... they're very different as I've said.

Bono_85

Well I have the 5 medicine places down on my CAO first, then pharmacy, physio and science all at Trinity, I mean I'm willing to work hard at any degree I'm doing, I thought pharmacy would be interesting, but I'm not sure, is science the better option? Its nothing to do with points I mean if science was 200 points and better to do regarding medicine I'd do science

angeldelight

In my opinion, knowing what Pharmacy is like I would have said science is a better option if you wanted to do medicine, for the reasons mentioned above. While there are some subjects which are the same e.g. physiology, biochemistry, microbiology we only did them in 1st year, and some of them not even for the whole year. For the next 3 years we'll be doing dispensing, pharmaceutics, pharmacology (to a much greater extent than meds do), pharmacy practice, clinical pharmacy etc. I would have thought that having a degree in biochem or physiology, anatomy or even micro, all of which are tested in 1st/2nd profs in medicine would be more advantageous. Then again I find pharmacy extremely interesting cause for the past 3 years it's all I've wanted to do and I can't wait to be a pharmacist so I couldn't not recommend the course

ergo

some interesting points made by everone

here's my two cents worth

it is very difficult for a leaving cert student to know if medicine is for them or not

I know an awful lot of disillusioned junior doctors and quite a few disilusioned physios and pharmacists, don't know any dentists really though... funny that they are all the high points courses

a survey in the past couple of years of junior doctors found that approx 40% of them would not have put medicine down on their CAO form if given a second chance at the old CAO, that's quite a high %

one problem is, that while the med course is very interesting (mostly) for those with an interst in the biological sciences and medicine in general, what you might end up doing at the end of the day might be far removed from that and not very rewarding a lot fo the time,

it might be useful if you know what sort of doctor you want to be eg GP or surgeon or whatever and then talk to someone who is doing that or training to be that and find out the story and if it's ikely to be a closed shop to you after 6 to 8 years plus intern year

also, in this day and age the doctor is not the much respected community figure of the old days, nowadays people are only too happy to bitch about the service or blame what some doctor did or didn't do 10 years ago for every little thing that's gone wrong since, and then there's the medico-legal aspect *shudders*

or there's the "€55 for that and not even a prescription " brigade...

and working in the hospitals can be great craic and all but the infrastructure is barely 20th century and some of the constraints are so frustrating, the amount of time spent dealing with bull**** can be soul destroying

I just hope that if you do do med ,that the system will have caught up (and Brendan Drumm can do this at the old HSE)

and where to go....? well you're on the Trinity board but... I wouldn't necessarily see never having to leave DUblin as an advantage for going to TCD
it can be great from a learning point of view and a social point of view to get out of Dublin for a while, more different patients for less
students in smaller country hospitals, dunno, UCD never had too many outside placements, maybe total of a month out of 6 years, maybe that's changed,

also I heard some Trinity meds (2nd or 3rd years) talking about TCD vs UCD and these were American students so maybe more conscious of the valu for their €20,000 a year factor and had been comparing the courses and felt that the Americans in UCD were maybe better off and thought more of their course than the TCD people thought of the Trinity one but they are changing the curriculum the whole time so it gets confusing

there's also talk of a 4 year postgrad med degree in Limerick at some future point

anyway good luck with whatever you decide

lomb

if u do dentistry doing medicine afterwards is fairly easy, as u get the first year exempted automatically off medicine if u are a dentist.
many dentists do medicine as thats the only way to become a maxillo-facial surgeon, doing massive surgery after road traffic accidents, breaking mandibles so that the teeth fit better, cancers of the head and neck excision,etc etc, facial reconstruction...
entry into medicine is pretty straightforward after if u get in the top 5 or 6 of the class (fairly easy if u want to) u do one years hospital job as a house officer, do ur fellowship exams and bobs ur uncle u have a membership of the royal college then. then u can do another year in a government job (plentiful) where ul make 55 grand for drinking coffee (this is the truth),and apply to medicine, ul have no problems getting in. also at that point ul know what u want to do anyway.

Bono_85

Right well I have science down under pharmacy, so should I just decline the offers till I get to science? and then just do the subjects you mentioned? How long is the science course?

Kevin_rc_ie

Ok, I hope I don't just repeat what everyone else said but Like Abel I feel like offering my own view.

Yes,yes, blah blah blah, nobody really knows they want to be a doctor unless they've actually been a doctor. It's the same for denistry and being a table tennis coach. You have to just speculate on these things.

Unless you are very wealthy, or confident you'll get grants, I'd highly recommend that if you want to do medicine, just do what ever it takes at 2nd level to get in. If this requires repeating the leaving twice, or going up north to do A levels so be it.

People are saying it's easy to get As in A levels and entry into trinity, and the statistics will support this, but remind your self that going for medicine, you're 3 A levels, afaik, have to be physics, chemistry and biology.

With the leaving, you still require 2 sciences, but you can get As in Languages. So if you're fortunate enough to be fluent, or even a mother tongue speaker of french or german etc. you're guarented a couple of 100 points.

Basically, as far i can see, to do medicine as a graduate, you have to be a sh1t hot graduate. so if you're doing physiology as way to get into med. you'll need 1sts, which isn't easy. remind yourself if you're doing your second choice, you may be as enthuisastic as if you're doing your first choice. The 2nd thing that puts me off graduate medicine is the expense, which is quite considerable.

Bottom line, qualify for medicine at 2nd level.

p.s. 4 years science/eng/5 years denistry, then the prerequisite 10 years medicine before you're living the easy life, that's a lot of time spent learning rather than living. it's not for everybody.

eth0_

Dunno if it's too late but you could (if you dont get into med school here) apply to uni up the north, do your three year degree, and then apply to one of the 4 year graduate entry medicine courses in England and Wales. (you'd have been living in the UK three years then so wouldn't have to pay fees iirc).

I haven't heard any more about graduate entry med course in UL, apart from a rumour it's starting in 2007.

Kevin_rc_ie

i thought the free fees only applied to scottish residents in the scottish UNIs. Me and my brother did differ on this thou, i'm still not sure what the story is.

snorlax

well here's my 2 cents.

Medicine is a tough course to do in college, alot of the meds literaly live in the library in James and have to put in more study hours then the average student. You have to have an excellent memory for all the stuff you'll have to learn off and the motivation to see it through. its not a decision to be taken likely, it would probably would be a good idea to get a more indepth look at some of the subjects you'll be learning and consider whether you are willing to spend lengthly hours in the library trying to learn them off.

certainely if its what you really want and are prepared to work hard at it, go for it and good luck anyhow whatever you decide to do!:)

cuckoo

Bono_85 wrote:

Right well I have science down under pharmacy, so should I just decline the offers till I get to science? and then just do the subjects you mentioned? How long is the science course?

Afaik, the CAO will keep offering you courses up your list, ie if you turn down your third choice they will offer you your second or first if the points drop in the next round - but they won't offer you your fourth or fifth.

Science is four years for the honours degree, three years for the pass degree.

Kevin_rc_ie

eh you can't decline your 2nd choice and take your 3rd choice. surely everyone knows how the CAO system works?

ok i'll spell it out, well what i think is the truth anyway

1. medicine tcd 580
2. pharmacy tcd 560
3. science tcd 400

If the student get's 570, she will be offered pharmacy. She can either reject or accept the offer. If the points for medicine drop to 570, she'll get an offer for that regardless if she's accepted pharmacy or not. However, she will not get offered science in any case.

ApeXaviour

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

Unless you are very wealthy, or confident you'll get grants, I'd highly recommend that if you want to do medicine, just do what ever it takes at 2nd level to get in. If this requires repeating the leaving twice, or going up north to do A levels so be it.

People are saying it's easy to get As in A levels and entry into trinity, and the statistics will support this, but remind your self that going for medicine, you're 3 A levels, afaik, have to be physics, chemistry and biology.

Did they not change the way A levels were benchmarked this year? Each A in an A level subject was reduced from 190 to 150 points and they take the top 4 A-Leves as opposed to the top 3. This means you need 4 A-level A's to get into say medicine now, not necessarily more easy than 4 A1s and 2 A2s

Kev wrote:

3. science tcd 400

Was it not 490 down to 440 in the second round last year?

Edit: it was.. (http://www.cao.ie/institutions/DEG04.HTM#trd) and it was 440*! Not all peeps who got 440 got the course.. :eek:

snorlax

im not sure but i think the median might refer to the average points of the people who got into the course..eg the average(median) points of people who got into med was 590 points and the points needed to get in were 580*.

ApeXaviour

snorlax wrote:

im not sure but i think the median might refer to the average points of the people who got into the course..eg the average(median) points of people who got into med was 590 points and the points needed to get in were 580*.

Ah so it does, 490 median 440 pts final..

snorlax

points in TCD seem outrageously high for most of the courses, look at dentistry, physio, law, they'v all gone up about 5-10 points each since i did the leaving, whats the story? tcd is becoming impossible to get into...pyschology is 550* to get into and iv done some of the same subjects that the pysch students do and they'r not that hard, at least compared to the likes of some of the harder sciences like physiology/ physics...

lomb

snorlax wrote:

points in TCD seem outrageously high for most of the courses, look at dentistry, physio, law, they'v all gone up about 5-10 points each since i did the leaving, whats the story? tcd is becoming impossible to get into...pyschology is 550* to get into and iv done some of the same subjects that the pysch students do and they'r not that hard, at least compared to the likes of some of the harder sciences like physiology/ physics...

because getting 6A1 s is impossible nearly, its all the northerners, and the few people who think medicine is the best and hit the jackpot with 6A1s so they do it. medicine most certainly isnt the best but its not the worst either, horses for courses.

Kevin_rc_ie

ApeXaviour wrote:

Did they not change the way A levels were benchmarked this year? Each A in an A level subject was reduced from 190 to 150 points and they take the top 4 A-Leves as opposed to the top 3. This means you need 4 A-level A's to get into say medicine now, not necessarily more easy than 4 A1s and 2 A2s

Was it not 490 down to 440 in the second round last year?

Edit: it was.. (http://www.cao.ie/institutions/DEG04.HTM#trd) and it was 440*! Not all peeps who got 440 got the course.. :eek:

yes they may have changed the value of A levels. i'm not certain this is confirmed.

but wtf are you talking about concerning points. i was giving a hypothetical example. 2ndly who fooking know's what the points will be this "fall".

Nietzschean

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

but wtf are you talking about concerning points. i was giving a hypothetical example. 2ndly who fooking know's what the points will be this "fall".

don't you know apex can see into the future ?

Kevin_rc_ie

sorry my mistake.

Bono_85

yayyyyyyyyyyy I got it!!! 7 a1's! go team medicine, can't wait!!!

flowerpotfrog

well done bono

flowerpotfrog = Kev? And well done Bono!

cuckoo

Congratulations!!!!!!!

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Bono_85 wrote:

yayyyyyyyyyyy I got it!!! 7 a1's! go team medicine, can't wait!!!

that's brilliant, well done!

DrIndy

So you going to the venerable Trinners for Winners college?

They have an option now where (if you wish) you can sit an aptitude test and if you do sufficiently well, are short listes straight into 2nd year, skipping pre med.

This is something to consider, although the drunken glory days of first year outside the pav in the sun with a six pack of beer and only one end of year exam in the triniy term is hard to beat.......

shane0312

Could someone who is doing (or did) medicine describe what its like. The hours, subjects, difficulty etc. because Im thinking about doing medicine and ive done work experience in a hospital but I still have no idea what the course is like.

DrIndy

Its tough but fun there is info on it on the college websites which summarise it in a few pages.

Medicine is not for slackers, if you want 4 hours per week, do Arts or Law. The average is 30 hours per week, rising when you reach the hospitals.

Its gas craic though and the job is even more fun. Jaysus, the amount of weirdos I've met so far and they're not all patients!

ZigBee

Bono_85 wrote:

I'm just wondering if worst comes to worst and I don't get it again, I have pharmacy down aswell on my CAO and Science, so if I do pharmacy is there a chance of somehow getting into the medicine course at the end of my pharmacy course?

Pharmacy, Science, Medicinal Chemistry, Physiotherapy etc. are full of people who didn't get the points for medicine. They think they can 'transfer' after one year and soon realise they can't. They think they'll 'get in' as a graduate but soon realise they can't. I even know a guy who did a 4 year science degree, a one year M.Sc. and was refused into every medicine school in the country.

The best way to get in to medicine (if you want it that bad) is to get 600 points, otherwise pay Raymond Kearns on Leeson Street a visit who'll be sure to point you in the way of 600 points.

Otherwise, do arts; it's way more fun.

DrIndy

ZigBee wrote:

Pharmacy, Science, Medicinal Chemistry, Physiotherapy etc. are full of people who didn't get the points for medicine. They think they can 'transfer' after one year and soon realise they can't. They think they'll 'get in' as a graduate but soon realise they can't. I even know a guy who did a 4 year science degree, a one year M.Sc. and was refused into every medicine school in the country.

The best way to get in to medicine (if you want it that bad) is to get 600 points, otherwise pay Raymond Kearns on Leeson Street a visit who'll be sure to point you in the way of 600 points.

Otherwise, do arts; it's way more fun.

Rubbish.

You insult every member of those courses when you come out with such twaddle. Fair enough there are a small number of people in those courses who did not achieve the points for medicine, however, the majority - CHOSE the course and chose the profession.

You gravely insult them when you make such ludicrous, narrow minded sweeping statements.