Ok, what the **** is an anticapitalist protestor??

Kersh

Right, just what is an anti capitalist protestor. How do they live, considering 'buying' things is contributing to a capitalist system. Do they build their houses out of trees, and make their clothes from sheep they stole? Do they get the bus places? Do they pay for petrol to put in their hippyvan? Just what is an anti capitalist protestor?? Can someone explain it to me. Please. I just dont get it. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

seamus

Anarchists/Anticapitalists = morons.

They're just bums who are angry that they suck at life, so they blame all their problems on the need to buy stuff.

Kersh

I thought so, I just thought I might have been missing something.

28064212

They're communists. Great, in theory. It's a pointless system unless you can persuade every single person to be part of it. Even if you just have one capitalist, the whole thing falls apart.

Stephen

Crusty, beardy, shower-fearing twats.

thelordofcheese

Well i think the idea is they protest at the way they see that capitalism can go too far, where a country or culture becomes so driven by money and material goods that everyone turns into complete, amoral ****.

Thats probably the idea, the execution is usually allot more along the lines of

hippy #1: Capitalism is bad
hippy #2: big corporations are bad, they sit in their corporation buildings... and they're all corporation-y... and they make lots of money!
hippy #1: YEAH!

* short pause *
Hippy #2: wanna get a McDonald's?
Hippy #1: thought you'd never ask...




Parts stolen shamelessly from Team America, give yourself a pat on the back if you got it

karlh

seamus wrote:

Anarchists/Anticapitalists = morons.

They're just bums who are angry that they suck at life, so they blame all their problems on the need to buy stuff.

LOL nicely said.

although true for 90%, there are some who believe that the direction the world is going in, with big corporations dictating how life is led and goverment being replaced by boardroom is a wrong one and is worthy of protest.

this doesn't have to involve hoodies, fighting with police or not washing.

jimbling

generally speaking.... the people who are "anti-capitalists' would be 'anti-communist' if that is what is in control..

as said above the point is that the way things are going is not good. I mean the materialism is just insane... the corperations and the media control everything.

The thing is there is nothing to replace it.... and even if there was... it would work for a while, and the fall to pieces again..... there is no right system.. just have to get by with what you have (or try and change it)

too much of anything is a bad thing. To believe too strongly in anything is a bad thing.

The 'anti-capitalists' are just to balance things out.....

Kone

Anyone see that Southpark where all the hippies move to town and set up a big drum circle?

dudara

From the wisdom of Eric Cartman

Cartman: Hippies.They're everywhere. They wanna save the earth, but all they do is smoke pot and smell bad.

toiletduck

they just sit around blaming corporations for EVERYTHING.

BlitzKrieg

just what is an anti capitalist protestor?

which ones?

do you mean the anti global ones? Then they dont have a problem with capitalism but they do wish to have some element of state protection or similar. (they would be conservatives)

Or the Socialist ones which want the working man to earn more, ensure equal treatment et all.

A Liberal is'nt anti-capitalist, they want to ensure that eveyone (ok most people) have the true equel oppurtunity to succeed.

Or the anarchist ones which want the state system abolished. (nothing wrong with buying stuff etc, they just dont want a government telling us what to do.)


being "Anti-Capitalist" has become such a positive word because alot of the worlds problems are wrongly or rightly blamed on corporations, greedy governments and so on which can be swiped with one big brush and called capitalist.

But thats just ignorance.

I mean an anarchist can be a capitalist without problem, hell Mcdonalds would trive under anarchism (specifically Corporate-Anarchism) No Taxes no state enforced laws.




But if you want to hit crux of the problem...the origing of the whole problem...Its LAND.

something like 60% (or higher) of British law relate to Land ownership. Capitalism favours (and will always) favour those with land over those without and that is the common thread linking socialism, anarchism and communism all under the one roof as "anti-capitalist"

But they all attack different elements of modern capitalism and the real question should be what is the full meaning of capitalism. Is it just everyone should be free to succeed as much as they want? Or is it more? Do we even have that in todays world?

now i havnt explained it too well, because this is running off 2 year old memory but later today i could be able to go into it more...now excuse me my laundry is burning.

Kersh

I mean the ones at the G8 summit, and the May 1st demos.
Surely, if you want things in life, get off your F*****g arse and earn them. I dont get what they stand for. Surely, the moment they spend 1 cent in a shop they are throwing away their ideals, are they not?
I thought all along they were just lazy hippy twats, and I think Im right on that one. Though I can be sure there are no anti capitalists on here, cos you have to pay for your internet connection and buy a multinational corporations PC.... right.......

BlitzKrieg

Again...they are not all anti-capitalist protesters at G8 (anti-war, anti-globalisation.)

Capitalism is not just i buy product perform the transaction of money for product therefore i am capitalist. It goes much further then that. Purchasing products via money is just the process that has replaced batering. Capitalism believes that EVERYTHING should be conducted through a monetary form. Eveything is awarded via money and you can gain everything by money, not only that but somebody will provide what everyone needs because the need to find markets and earn the money, money = power and freedom. Now thats capitalism simplified.

here are some definitions: http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&oi=defmore&q=define:Capitalism


Again i state. People are protesting elements of capitalism. Not everything with it (except the really niave) Moderate Socialist anti capitlists want state run public transport and healthcare. Conservatives want their national companies protected. It goes on and on.

Though I can be sure there are no anti capitalists on here, cos you have to pay for your internet connection and buy a multinational corporations PC.... right.......

unless that internet connection was from a company established and run from the government.

Kingsize

genuine anti capitalists want an alternative to the corporate system which puts profit over everything else -it is possible to make a profit without fukking people & the planet over.
However there is a large amount of knobhead trust funded hippy **** involved in this movement that im not surprised at most peoples comments here.

gsand

my personal problem with these people (fighting and moaning and saying stupid things aside) is that they dont come up with any valid solution...i mean for the number of them and their supposed fashion you would think they could make some reasonable proposals to the powers that be instead of just damaging their ideals with idiotic actions...that would increase their validity 10 fold imo

Kingsize

It has to be said that the tabloid media love a bit of cops vs hippies action,they also like to perpetuate the stereotypes weve all been laughin at too.
Theres a fair amount of political tourists who get involved in this type of thing too,you know -they turn up for the protest first & then find out what they are protesting about.

Dinner

This thread fills me so full of hope. I love seeing anti-hippy threads.

toiletduck

Kingsize wrote:

It has to be said that the tabloid media love a bit of cops vs hippies action

doesn't everyone?

Kersh

Ok, 2 things -
1 - Why are they smashing the place up - surely the whole area will have to be repaired and all the workers that repair it will eat McDonalds and drink coke etc etc.
2 - If they have anything to do with the Government allegiances that makes no sense. The Government puts out tenders to purely capitalist businesses for various jobs..... and they pay these companies lots of money for them... none of this is mak8ing any sense.

pedro ferio-vti

I still think Seamus is the only one who has summed them up quiet perfectly. Bunch of lazy, pothead, ricepant wearing, tree hugging whingers who probably didn't receive too much attention when they were children........

MorningStar

Kersh wrote:

Ok, 2 things -
1 - Why are they smashing the place up - surely the whole area will have to be repaired and all the workers that repair it will eat McDonalds and drink coke etc etc.
2 - If they have anything to do with the Government allegiances that makes no sense. The Government puts out tenders to purely capitalist businesses for various jobs..... and they pay these companies lots of money for them... none of this is mak8ing any sense.

1)The media and police might not be the most trustworth people in the world especially on this issue. Many parts of the media are owned by people who truely believe in the capatalism thing. Murdock being a pretty scarey person with the power he has and control on world wide media.
The events that happened here were a little bit strange last time as you saw the footage of people dancing in the water cannons yet the next day it was all about how the cannons needed to be used. A crowd can be aggrivated to fight and it has been known to be done intentionally to prove the crowd was trouble in countries like china. The same is well possible in Europe when some of the most powerfull people are about.
The police here were shown to have beaten people and then lie about it.
2) The government is very far from anti-capaitalist. THey essentially are trying to promote it. They believe the french socialist model is flawed. It why people work two jobs to get a house and then have to stick their kids into child care. The more socialist idea is that people have a house and can take care of their children and don't need to work all the time.

What anti-capatilists are agianst are things like the ability for big companies or individual excluding individuals. Things like needing to buy cable tv to watch national sporting teams (SKY and republic of ireland games) or somebody bank rolling an asset to strip it of assets (Man United possible). I am not in to sport but most people get it.

You can call them hippies but they might have a point that life should have a certain quality and not be driven so people at the top have a good life while the rest suffer. You can pay somebody for their time without submitting to capitalisim.

BlitzKrieg

- Why are they smashing the place up - surely the whole area will have to be repaired and all the workers that repair it will eat McDonalds and drink coke etc etc.

these are idiots who think aggressive action is the best way to make a clear message. In the age of Mass Media this is stupid and doesnt work.

2 - If they have anything to do with the Government allegiances that makes no sense. The Government puts out tenders to purely capitalist businesses for various jobs..... and they pay these companies lots of money for them...

let me say again your making the topic far too simple. Cetain anti-capitalist movments are against governments because governments promote capitalism (as morningstar said) others are marked as anti capitalist by media but are not (in theory)this would be anarchists to some extent. But Capitalism is not followed fully by governments in a fully capitalist world there would be no subsidies for irish farming by the EU, no public transport, no free healthcare. Conservative and liberal protester (for different reasons) would be against capitilism on these points.


Again the G8 protesters have been brushed by the media with 2 different images. Anti Capitalist protesters, or rioting idiots. When in reality there are numerous groups protesting on numerous agenda's from the iraq war to globalisation. So in reality its best not to assume off the bat that the person smashing in a window is anti-capitalist...in reality Seamus's opinion could be closer on that particuler person.

i recommand going to the politics board and reading the thread on the G8 protesters and in particulary Sand's post, he gets it pretty much spot on.

Mossy Monk

another name for knacker

steviec

MorningStar wrote:

It why people work two jobs to get a house and then have to stick their kids into child care. The more socialist idea is that people have a house and can take care of their children and don't need to work all the time.

But without capitalism where does this free house come from? And the food for their children? People need to pay a lot for the house because other people built it for them, because the materials had to come from somewhere, and because a lot of other people want that land too and are willing to pay for it. What system is fairer than supply and demand?

Taking the football example too. Sky give a lot of value for money and I and most people I know have no problem subscribing to them. I'm not going without food to afford to see football on Sky Sports. And people can still go to their pubs to see it if they want. Everybody pays Sky, they pay for the rights, they pay their production crew and staff, the bodies that received money for the rights pay the teams and the players and the board staff and the ground crew and the maintenance of the stadium and everything else. I know this would all still work fine if RTE had the rights. But in the extreme anti-capitalist model how would this work? Would the footballers still be able to find time to train when they're not too busy growing their own food? Would people be willing to devote time for free to maintaining the stadium for the love of the game?

I can understand some quibbles with certain things but I don't understand how it's possible for people to live without capitalism?

Kingsize

having a profitable business concern does not nescessarily mean you are a captialist.
capitalism as i see it is the pusuit of profit regardless of the consequences. e.g. people starve while most of the land in their country is used to grow grain for export.This is certainly the case in some african nations just asit was in some areas in Ireland back in 1847
im certainly not a fan the left wing hypcrites who seem to scream loudest at these things .
its not a black & white arguement,but its easier to see it that way.
Some people fail to see that when the revolution comes we'll still need binmen.

MorningStar

steviec wrote:

But without capitalism where does this free house come from?

They are all meant to be affordable and everybody gets paid a wage that they can live on. I never said free and socialist or anti-capitalism do not In France for example they have price controls on the houses. The protection of houses for locals here is an example of how it works. What is the point of paying people a wage they can't live on who does the work? The US has a situation where certain people work three and four jobs just to survive.

steviec wrote:

Taking the football example too. Sky give a lot of value for money and I and most people I know have no problem subscribing to them.

What about those who can't? If you create relative poverty you create crime. seems to be the way it goes. You may also not stay on top where you are now. Life can be pretty hard when things aren't going well. I rememebr when it was taken that about 50% of my class mates were believed to need to move out of the country to be able to get a job. That's really not that long ago.

steviec wrote:

I can understand some quibbles with certain things but I don't understand how it's possible for people to live without capitalism?

Being anti capitalism isn't completely black and white, what is? Most people want to reduce the capitalist view in the same way the socilist views of ireland have already been deminished. Our whole country and history is based on the people but in the space of 10 years it seems to be set on coming something else. SF popularity seems to stem from this kind mentality.

the jew

The guys in those riots were probably just having a bit of craic, I'd probably do much the same in that situation.

I'd say anti-capitalists that actually believe in something probably just think that big corporations are out of control, cos they can pretty much do anything they want because they generate so much revenue for the government where as if say a small farmer was to do something similar (obviously on a smaller scale) he would be in big trouble.

Cojofl

Note that just because the media calls protesters "anti capitalist" it doesn't mean they actually are.

Also things aren't near as simplistic as some of you are making out. For instance, some may be protesting against the lack of free trade in the global economy, due to the CAP and similar protectionist subsidies in the US which erect barriers to trade. These stop many 3rd world farmers from engaging in the global economy. A fishing rod is useless with a wall in front of the river. How is wishing for more free trade being "anti-capitalist" ?

catholicireland

The guys in those riots were probably just having a bit of craic, I'd probably do much the same in that situation

a bit of craic? i doubt the police saw it that way. broken bottles and sticks being fired at them. They are all nothing but thugs

Victor

28064212 wrote:

They're communists.

But under communism, you can still buy things ....

Tar.Aldarion

their idea is right...but they suck at implementing it because every1 would have to agree and i dont even see 1% of ppl doing that

OfflerCrocGod

toiletduck wrote:

they just sit around blaming corporations for EVERYTHING.

No they also blame democratic governments for.......you know STUFF.

pickarooney

Cojofl wrote:

Note that just because the media calls protesters "anti capitalist" it doesn't mean they actually are.

True, it just makes it easier and more acceptable for people to say they smell and that they hate them ratehr than trying to understand what might be their motivation.

I could call everyone who watched Live 8 an anti-capitalist who smells and needs to die, but it probably wouldn't be true.

MorningStar

pickarooney wrote:

I could call everyone who watched Live 8 an anti-capitalist who smells and needs to die, but it probably wouldn't be true.

Nobody would they were totally different topics. Live 8 was drop the debit.

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

No they also blame democratic governments for.......you know STUFF.

They don't blame the governments as mentioned they dislike the governments for facilitating huge companies like Shell. I know it's tounge in cheek but some people really think they are just hippies and dismiss the views
As people complain about rip off Ireland you think they would get more support here. The thinking being big companies come into Ireland drive the indiginous companies to closure and then hike up prices and then get supply from out of the country. (Tesco)

the jew

catholicireland wrote:

a bit of craic? i doubt the police saw it that way. broken bottles and sticks being fired at them. They are all nothing but thugs

the police probably didn't see it as that because they actually had to do something for a change(and anyway who cares, nobody likes the police).

verdidnt

seamus wrote:

Anarchists/Anticapitalists = morons.

They're just bums who are angry that they suck at life, so they blame all their problems on the need to buy stuff.

Generalisations are bad, Mmmmkay.

It's really not that simply. Search on google and read up on it a bit.

seamus

verdidnt wrote:

Generalisations are bad, Mmmmkay.

It's really not that simply. Search on google and read up on it a bit.

Ah I know. Blitzkrieg said it best. I didn't have the energy at the time to make a big post, so I went the generalisation route.

NotMe

Those anti-capitalist protestors don't seem so bad now do they?