Has anyone here joined the IPSA

oldzed

Now that the post has returned to the original Topic and The IPSA Founders have been asked in , I would just like to add my 2 cents on the Targets . The IPSA did not invent the Targets we use , These targets are in use by over 70,000 Ipsc members worldwide in over 80 countries, We could Theoretically use a different set of targets here but it would put us at a huge disadvantage when we Travel abroad to compete as you would have to adjust to firing at something you are not used to . This would be no different than trying to make sparks change the target he shoots at from a circle to a square because somebody does not like people firing at circles.We will continue to use the targets mandated for use by us by our international governing bodies, just as The issf will use their targets and The Sil shooters (including me) will use theirs . If we change our targets we would also be left in the position that we could never hold an internationally sanctioned match and that is what we are about, namely to produce world class well trained and safe shooters that we can dispatch to competitions at home and abroad to represent our country and hopefully start winning some prizes.
On a personal level (not an IPSA View ) the whole political correctness crap is getting out of hand , This rubbish will end the shooting sports permanently if its not kept in check , it seeps in and starts killing of disciplines one by one , Only this year the running boar was knocked from the olympic list , and that had been watered down from a boar silhouette to a circle not so long ago . If we keep going the way of political correctness the likes of rebecca peters and the anti gunners will be delighted when we are all firing cork guns at coke cans, and then she can repeat her comment to the uk pistol shooters, 'Im sorry you lost your hobby go find another one '.

Sparks

Only this year the running boar was knocked from the olympic list , and that had been watered down from a boar silhouette to a circle not so long ago .

Only for the 10m version of the event, the 50m still uses a picture of a boar. Mind you, I've not heard of a 50m running target match in years, the 10m version just blew it out of the water in popularity terms in Germany (which was pretty much the home of running target). Whatever we may feel about political correctness, some people just don't dig some things. *shrug* That's people for ye.

And btw, the reason that 10m running target was dropped was that there weren't enough beds in the Olympic Village and some events had to be dropped. The two least popular events in terms of participation levels (Women's Double Trap and 10m Running Target) got it in the neck as a result. But this is more to do with how TV presents the sport than anything else.

Flattop 15

Citizen_Erased wrote:

Games never really do that to people. They have it in them already , just maybe the games bring it out or the media makes the link. Of course though they can affect young children but that is why they are not intended for them.

I'm sorry citizen,you are very wrong there.As I said before these "Games"were and are developed from US/UK military training combat simulators,as have some of the police tactic traninig simulators.DOOM being the direct link between the US milspec training aid and the civillian shoot em up.AFIK DOOM was an acrynom for it's USmil usage code.
Now ,why would the military want to have their troops playing console games?Word is DESENSIVITY.To take an ordinary person off the streets and then turn them into a ruthless killing machine[aka soilder]you must break them down mentally,physically and emotionally and rebuild them as to what you want them to be.To do that you use as many "training aids" as possible,good example is bayonet training ,you paint a symbol of your enemy on the straw sack and teac your budding soilder to ram as violently as possble his knife into it.End product of military training is a person who will kill instinctively or on command and as efficently as possible his/hers govts chosen enemy.What has this got to do with a playstation game?As stated the game desentitises you.Change your monster for a uniformed enemy and add blood and gore and you have a brilliantly cheap training aid.Dont think it is a platoon of squaddies playing with a playstation 2.It is a very elaborate 360degree cinema.[Quite impressive bit of kit I am told.] So,if you can put human faces on your enemy and their uniform in a training aid you have a much quicker and better way of training your troops,with also alot less risks to them and wastage in training of manpower.
Now lets put this in a civillian context. A military training aid that has been jazzed up with cool graphics ,etc is now being sold by the million fold to all and sundry.Much as we would like it in a perfect world childtrn would not have access to knives,or guns or drugs or violent films or Dads bottom sock drawer magazine collection.Trouble is,it isnt a perfect world,so kids do get access to these things.So they do play,read,cut or reenact somthing from a movie.The Jamie Bolger case in the UK with the connection to that really stupid horror movie,being a proven link.Parents are to blame to a point, as it requires a 24/7/365 task to be a good one.[Hence the reason I am going to do my damnest not to be one].How many teens are walking today talking and acting like South central LA gangstas and if given a "piece" would know how to operate it or shoot it from watching and playing some of the more modern PS2 games?Not only that ask the military how much time and money they spend "re civvieing" their troops to get them back out into normal lives.They will candidly admitthat 75/90% of their troops being demobbed will never loose their training or tactics.It's quite intresting to note that from personal experiance of mil personel who are demobbed.They will NOT allow their kids or themselves to have any type of video game in the house or access to it.
That might be saying somthing.

Point I am trying to make here is,you have a better chance of desentiseing yourself and learning tactics from the games than from a practical pistol course.
As to your question about the targets.The sport originated as a training aid back in the 60s in the USA. In the US people arent too delicate in their worries on wether it was a man target or a bullseye.So the target[as it certainly has no resembelance to a human target anymore,profile or otherwise]is now not revelant.Call it a hangover from the 60s.If you look at rapid fire pistol targets,they also have a humaniod shape,but no one freaks at them.Yet rapid fire pistol was also a derivative from combat disiplines of the last centuary.As any politican will tell you the great unwashed will make up their minds on an issue themselves,and you wont change it.
You have made yours up on ours,as you are entitled to,but please dont try and stop us.As one day somone might be attacking your disipline,and you might find damn few people who will come to help you.

Sparks

Not to level criticism where it's not needed flattop, but you've gotten one or two things incorrect there. Doom wasn't a military project - it was adopted later by the military for training in squad-level fire-and-cover tactics, but they then went off and wrote their own (America's Army if I remember right). And the target for rapid fire pistol is not a humanoid target, it's this:


Also, I'm not sure, but I thought the IPSC target wasn't changed until recently (I think the late 90's but I can't be sure), as a part of the IPSC's bid for olympic recognition? I know that the 1500/PPC target certainly wasn't changed until recently and then only in the european version of the game, the US still use human silhouettes rather than the abstracted humanoid version we see in Europe.

And on the video games, there is valid research showing that violent video games do desensitise people to violence. Or, as someone put it once, "if video games affected people, all those kids from the 70s would be running around in dark rooms popping pills and listening to wierd music" And I know from personal experience that you do notice a change in your mindset from training in martial arts for any length of time (though happily, the effect tends to wear off the further you get from puberty as your hormonal levels settle down, something the car insurance companies would give you a long lecture on if you ever ask why their premiums are so high for males aged 16-24...).

Flattop 15

Ok Sparks,I got that one Re Doom bass ackwards.
But then tell us what are the targets used in rapid fire that are as best described as "coffin shaped"[Cant find a pic of them].Unless they have been changed very recently for a bullseye,last time I saw them in use was the previous olympics eight years ago.?

Ammoman

Gun Shy wrote:

With the Midlands getting the official go ahead last friday we can now set our sights on providing IPSC Basic and Competition Courses for the first time down South.

its nice of the midlands to notify their members before you .... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: , Typical of MRC yet again treat the members with contempt at every turn .

this must be the 3rd or 4th time that they have got the official go ahead , I think that you should confirm the fact before you plan to arrange use of the range.... :mad:

Sparks

Flattop 15 wrote:

But then tell us what are the targets used in rapid fire that are as best described as "coffin shaped"[Cant find a pic of them].Unless they have been changed very recently for a bullseye,last time I saw them in use was the previous olympics eight years ago.?

8 years ago? Er, no... the targets changed from ovals to circles in 1989. Showing yer age there m'lad

Citizen_Erased

I have no idea what this thread has turned into but if i may bring back the subject of video games , I was not refaring to "desesnsitising" people for killing but causing people to go postal. I'm sure that playing games and advanced military simulations can change a person mindset and soften their first kill , but I don't think they are capable of sending normal , mentally sound people into rages which may cause them to go on a rampage with a weapon and take their own life and those of others. That is usually people who have been broken down by other aspects such as a mental disorder or an incredibly emotionally damaging situation such as their marriage breaking up. Of course though , not everyone is the same , and there are always exceptions to the rule but from my own experience I had played many games for long periods of time eg the media favorite gta , the previously mentioned Doom and lots of other games of similar nature but when I killed my first animal it still had an incredible effect on me and was nothing anygame could really prepare you for. Human nature , unfortunately is not predicible and rarely follow anygiven trend so there will naturally be so many differant opinions on how it works.

civdef

This thread is about the IPSA - it isn't about video games, desensitisation, or whatever else. Let's keep it that way.

Flattop 15

All I was pointing to Citizen et all was that there are better methods and things out there to desentise onesel to "going postal" than participating in a regulated sort.
Nuff said.

Dvs

Hello Gun Shy,
thanks for the update on the IPSA,
I look forward to reading more on your website.

Regards,
Dvs.